Good lord, huge buffs and more whining. Maybe you should actually play with some of the changes actually feel before continuing to complain endlessly.Quote:
Originally Posted by lordparanoia
Astrologian "BUFFS"
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07-22-2015, 02:49 AMckc22
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07-22-2015, 03:15 AMCraterYou've got a really funny definition of "huge".Quote:
Originally Posted by ckc22
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07-22-2015, 03:24 AMNorthernLadMSPThey're definitely nice buffs, IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crater
Lightspeed went from pretty much useless (except for quick raises or Stoneskin) to a 25% reduction in mana and no gimping of the healing spells.
Spread being available outside of combat is awesome as you can saved the card you want for a future battle, before you even enter the fight
Shuffle cool down reduced by 33%.
Best of all - TP and MP refresh cards that can be used on anyone - beats bards having to sing for a DPS reduction or NIN being unable to Goad themselves -
07-22-2015, 03:38 AMamihavingfunyetNIN can't Goad themself.Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthernLadMSP
As for the buffs, they are nice but nothing that will make me pick AST back up.
And for DPSing AST is still heavily reliant on keeping Spear/Ewer for themself. -
07-22-2015, 03:48 AMNague
go heal opressor as AST and then you can come back and tell me how awesome AST is.
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07-22-2015, 03:51 AMNorthernLadMSPLOL right, that's why I said unable.Quote:
Originally Posted by amihavingfunyet
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07-22-2015, 03:52 AMCraterThe card changes are nice, but I wouldn't call them "huge".Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthernLadMSP
Like, as many, many people have already pointed out, the Haste buff that people get from a Scholar's fairy is a larger overall increase to party DPS than an AST who draws perfect cards, every time, for maximum card-based DPS boosts. What the changes to Spire and Ewer do is basically to make card-based utility effects as powerful for utility as card-based DPS effects are for DPS - ie: Useful, measurable, definitely-not-nothing, but also not powerful enough that they define an Astrologian's role in the party.
And it's fine that they're not that powerful - if AST can keep up with the other healers when it comes to actually healing. And that was always the true problem with AST. It wasn't that their cards were mediocre or RNG-dependent, and it wasn't their MP management.
It's that when a WHM needs to ramp up their healing output, they have Divine Seal, they have Presence of Mind, they have Benediction, and Tetragrammaton, they have Assize, and they can lay down an Asylum and keep casting. And when a SCH needs to ramp up their healing output, they can Rouse their fairy, or even switch to Eos for Whispering Dawn and Fey Covenant, and they can blow through Aetherflow stacks on Lustrate and Indomitability to dump out thousands of potency worth of healing in just a few seconds.
When an AST needs to pump out more healing than their GCD heals will allow, they have Essential Dignity. That's it. In very, very, very specific scenarios, they can get some mileage out of Synastry, but it's not a general-purpose healing boost: It doesn't boost their AoE healing, and it doesn't boost their single-target healing.
That was the fundamental problem with the class, and they got absolutely nothing to address that problem. -
07-22-2015, 03:53 AMNorthernLadMSP
Yeah, too bad they didn't had an awesome AOE heal or healing buff to Celestial Opp.
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07-22-2015, 04:32 AMEchuKayu
These buffs really make me want to play nocturnal
/s
I have a feeling these won't be the last of the buffs we'll be getting, these are just to help initially with savage...I hope. -
07-22-2015, 04:33 AMSuzakuCMXHe comes into every AST thread and complains about people complaining about AST because it'll make SCH not as godly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crater
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07-22-2015, 05:02 AMNorthernLadMSPWho are you referring to?Quote:
Originally Posted by SuzakuCMX
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07-22-2015, 05:02 AMEudyptesThey are nice but not great. The buff to lightspeed was significant, but lightspeed overall still isn't that great of a CD. Especially when you consider it's one of the few CDs we have. It's useful for when you need to be mobile, but otherwise the mp reduction is a drop in the bucket considering the 2.5 min CD it's tied to, and the CD itself adds absolutely no extra healing.Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthernLadMSP
The spread buff was a nice QoL buff, but adds nothing for when in combat.
The shuffle cooldown reduction was utterly worthless imo. It doesn't address the issue with shuffle at all, which is that you have the chance to burn an entire CD to get absolutely nothing accomplished. 90 sec or 60 sec means jack when you get the card back that you were trying to get rid of.
CU still has all the same issues it had before.
Now, the ewer/spire changes imo were absolutely great. Imo, the one true buff to the class today was through these. I now feel like no matter what I draw I will draw something useful, with the exception of too many spears too close together.
Note: My opinions are based on spending the last 5 hours healing alex, so I'm not just basing this on patch notes or something. -
07-22-2015, 05:11 AMSuzakuCMXckc22. Everytime I've seen him post in an AST thread it's to tell people to stop whining and that you can't make AST as good as SCH.Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthernLadMSP
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07-22-2015, 05:15 AMNorthernLadMSPOh ok, good :)Quote:
Originally Posted by SuzakuCMX
At first, I thought you were talking about me. -
07-22-2015, 05:16 AMSuzakuCMXI would never insult you, my love.Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthernLadMSP
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07-22-2015, 05:19 AMNadirah
I think some of you folks are forgetting that Collective Unconscious and Celestial Opposition as well as Lightspeed are supposed to be situational spells.
Not something used in a rotation.
Not something used on CD.
*Situational*.
That's probably why they're not making them as awesome as you want them to be. -
07-22-2015, 05:22 AMFaizeD
In summation:
Nocturnal is still terrible. Don't use it.
Lightspeed is not an "emergency heal", it's a free heal every 2.5 mins. Or a "I need to move and heal this DPS that stepped in stuff at the same time, and I don't have ED, and I don't have insta-Benefic II because I cross-classed Cure like an idiot, and the other healer with all their fancy off GC heals is asleep" thing.
Don't cross-class Cure. Don't do it.
Spear is still pretty much useless, but we're ignoring that.
New Ewer/Spire is nice. Yay Ewer/Spire.
More praying to RNGjesus.
Srsly, can you just add the crit bonus to shields already? -
07-22-2015, 05:26 AMmp-pleaseRemember one ilm punch?Quote:
Originally Posted by Nadirah
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07-22-2015, 05:41 AMRulerOfPotaoes
They did how ever somewhat fixed the mp issue wich was one of the most important things.. Nocturnal and healing potency needs buffs yeah, and shuffle should never draw the same card you just put back in your deck.
People can't expect SE to give astrologian a full class job tweak in a week. Give it time. They heard you and they will keep working on it. -
07-22-2015, 05:42 AMNadirahWhich what? Assuming MNK, which I don't play(nor have any interest in honestly).Quote:
Originally Posted by mp-please
And comparing healer situational spells to any other role spells/abilities is stupid. Apples/oranges. IIRC, they outright stated they were going to be situational.
What the actual hell? What does cross classing Cure have to do with Enhanced Benefic? If you're talking about replacing Benefic with Cure, only morons would cross class Cure and then not use Benefic at all.Quote:
Lightspeed is not an "emergency heal", it's a free heal every 2.5 mins. Or a "I need to move and heal this DPS that stepped in stuff at the same time, and I don't have ED, and I don't have insta-Benefic II because I cross-classed Cure like an idiot, and the other healer with all their fancy off GC heals is asleep" thing.
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07-22-2015, 05:49 AMEudyptesNo ones asking for CDs that you use on CD or in rotation. At all. We're asking for CDs to use when the situation becomes dire. Which we only have one of atm.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nadirah
Unless they plan on actually straight up adding more new skills to our class (which is extremely unlikely until a new xpac), they will need to make the few we do have be a lot less niche and a lot more "awesome". -
07-22-2015, 06:26 AMmp-pleaseNah, one ilm punch is the exact same thing you just said.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nadirah
Not something used in a rotation.
Not something used on CD.
*Situational*.
That's probably why they're not making them as awesome as you want them to be. -
07-22-2015, 06:29 AMNektulos-Tuor- No Longer useful for Dark Knight.Quote:
Originally Posted by lordparanoia
Nerfed. =9 -
07-22-2015, 06:42 AMFaizeDWhat the hell does cross-classing Cure have to do with anything ever? Oooo, a slightly less mana-efficient version of Benefic that has 21 more potency under Nocturnal. Be still my heart. When would you ever use this?Quote:
Originally Posted by Nadirah
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07-22-2015, 06:43 AMRulerOfPotaoesHow? It gives mp now lol something drk lacks. Buffed ewer is so gud on a low mp drk. I do hope u were jocking :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor
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07-22-2015, 06:43 AMNihility
Mixed feelings really
lightspeed is definitely good, I've just been popping it for aoe healing for the mana efficiency. It's really good for that
the changes to spread and shuffle are very welcome
the ewer and spire changes are different. I guess refresh is pretty decent but it completely killed the dark knight ewer thing which was amazing and the new ewer is basically useless for dark knight
the royal road change really ticks me off, ewer and spire were cards i looked forward to because the effects are great when needed and burning them was amazing for the double duration
now they have the aoe effect which is definitely my least desired royal road and since the standard use is situational they have become really not great cards to see most of the time -
07-22-2015, 06:49 AMFaizeDRefresh effects don't work on them when they're in Darkside stance, but cost reduction does.Quote:
Originally Posted by RulerOfPotaoes
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07-22-2015, 06:54 AMRox_UnlimitedIf a DRK stays in Datkside all MP refreshing abilities are ignored. (Ewer and Mages Ballad) If they turn it off then the MP refresh is awsome for them.Quote:
Originally Posted by RulerOfPotaoes
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07-22-2015, 07:05 AMMimilu
I think all the buffs were a step in the right directions but didn't solve all the issues that needed to be fixed.
Poor Nocturnal Sect is still lackluster compared to Diurnal Sect, they even buffed Diurnal's Collective Unconscious.
Personally, I think they should just change Collective Unconscious into a something like Sacred Soil or Asylum, where you place it on a designated area. It would be so much more useful.
Also, from a thematic perspective, I see why they changed Royal Road: Arrow and Spear both deal with time, so naturally their Royal Road effect should too. -
07-22-2015, 07:23 AMRazeLandale
Well, at about 1350~ a tick I can't deny collective unconscious packs a pretty nice punch. It's probably still niche because of the range, but at least it's really strong within that niche.
If nothing else it'll keep the tank up on most trash packs with a. benefic. Free heals while you let your mana go up after spamming gravities. Or maybe you just don't want to push buttons. Because who wants to push buttons?
On nocturnal, if nothing else weak shields don't seem to be overwriting stronger ones anymore. -
07-22-2015, 07:29 AMTaranokThe problem is that that's not very strong. To put this into perspective, a White Mage can throw Assylum on an area the same size that heals for half the potency but the white mage can, y'know, cast medica, or medica 2, or regen, or cure, or cure 2, or cure 3, or any variety of more abilities at the same time.Quote:
Originally Posted by RazeLandale
The opportunity cost of Collective Unconscious is still just way the hell too high to the point where its only real use is when you're going to be fettered for the next 20 seconds and may as well throw it out because it's free.
In order for collective unconscious to ever be a good ability, it must quite literally be the best ability to use every single GCD between when it casts and when it completes. Otherwise, it is absolute garbage or is broken early, where it ends up just being a free, but ultimately worse, Helios for less potency and in a much smaller area. -
07-22-2015, 07:59 AMMhikail
Let's see...
Lightspeed: is now fixed and full back into the game. Great.
Spread: Major QoL so I'm happy.
Ewer/Spire: Refresh is a huge goody for everyone. I personally have not have any problems because I learned to extremely hold tight to managing my Mana...but now it doesn't have to be so hard to deal with it for no reason. Rejoice!
I think think nerfs Dark...Ouch.
Switch of the card abilities: Minor annoyance to re-memorize everything but a buff.
CU: More HP is good but this is meh. Allow us to move, or hell, make cards that's used AoE while in effect/Add potency to cards in effect anything! Needs more ooph!
Random - Time Dilation: Anyone else think it'll be OP to use on ourselves or no? I actually want this to be used on ourselves.
We're in the game a lot better now folks, but we still HAVE to do something about Nocturnal Stance. I'm honestly shocked they didn't fix it.
They mentioned it...but I think they're trying to do something about it so they didn't fix it this patch. Maybe not enough time? Still, that's a huge deal that needs to be looked into.
TLDR: Better, but we still need a bit more TLC. -
07-22-2015, 08:06 AMCrater
Yeah, for Collective Unconscious to be a usably-strong ability, it has to be strong enough that it compensates for the fact that you lose access to all other abilities while you're using it. 200 potency is nowhere near strong enough to make up for that. I'd say the minimum for it to be a worthwhile skill would be somewhere in the 300 potency/tick range. At that level, it would be roughly equivalent to (a little weaker than) spamming Helios, except that you would be unable to dodge AoEs, and would be unable to give the tank extra healing if 300 potency/tick isn't enough to keep them alive.
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07-22-2015, 08:39 AMckc22Oh puhlease. Every astrologian thread is exactly the same - and when they give you some buffs you still complain.Quote:
Originally Posted by SuzakuCMX
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07-22-2015, 08:50 AMAlahraJust because we got buffs doesn't mean the class is necessarily fixed, though. It still has some issues that need to be ironed out, most likely, as its issues weren't really tied to simple things like DPS output (so they can't just tweak a few numbers and call it a day). Things will probably become clearer in the weeks to come as groups start clearing Alexander Savage.Quote:
Originally Posted by ckc22
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07-22-2015, 08:55 AMMuahbecDon't be ignorant.Quote:
Originally Posted by ckc22
You're aways complaining about the ASTs players only because they want their job to actually feel like the hybrid job SE promised, all you do is complain that AST can't be anywhere as good as your beloved SCH, you're ignorant and childish.
SCH is my main job and i WANT AST to be powerfull just like my SCH as well as WHM but still differentiate from them, but thanks to ignorant players like you, the DEV have some hard time deciding what to do.
Just shut up and keep playing your so loved SCH and leave AST players alone, every change to AST will NOT affect your so loved job, it will actually help in hard high level content.
take your ignorance somewhere else. PUHLEASE -
07-22-2015, 08:56 AMckc22I'm not the one name calling or getting rude. So who's really being childish here?Quote:
Originally Posted by Muahbec
I'd love for AST to be good too. I just think giving them straight up copies of abilities from sch/whm and making them better than the original classes versions is not the right way to do it. But that's 80% of what you see around here.
Focus on the card buffs and speed healer/time mage theme if you really want to improve them and keep them unique. -
07-22-2015, 09:23 AMTaranokI'd take it in a different direction. Namely, I'd, for example, throw a shield onto the Diurnal one, making it a 200 potency heal with a 100-200 potency shield or make it heal for more as time goes on, starting at 200 a tic and ending at, say, 500 or 800/tick potency. I'd heavily increase the range of it to probably close to double. For the Nocturnal one, either stack a shield on top of it, or stack some healing on top of it as well as the 10% mitigation. It has to compete with Sacred Soil, which has a much lower practical cooldown, is much larger, can be cast at range, and isn't channeled, so it has to have enough benefits to make it superior to that while still being channeled.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crater
But just doing a simple "It now heals for more" is just....boring. I'd like to see the devs do something interesting with it, it just needs to be the absolute best ability to use when it is off GCD unless you are reserving it. -
07-22-2015, 09:31 AMPhenidateAlright, sacrifice my regen effects that stack with WHM regens and have better effective heal throughput thanks to extendable duration by other abilities, but hey, I can cast cure 5% better than a WHM! It'll be great as long as there isn't a SCH in the party, right? Right?Quote:
Originally Posted by UlricCraft
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07-22-2015, 09:32 AMSuzakuCMXQuote:
Originally Posted by Phenidate
........................Quote:
I was merely joking