Ninja: Heaven-Sword (And Beyond)

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Originally Posted by Pluvia

True but the question is will it be higher then 630 which you can hit with food or higher since I can only base it on normal Alex there isn't a time where you are forced to hit the front of anything other then adds. which I can't remember if adds in fights can have less acc requirements or not.

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Interesting, so how are the legs ACC classified in A4 ? Since it counts as back,side,front for attacks. On the point of adds and acc requirements I think they require the same acc as boss. I remember missing on adds in A1S when I was sitting around I think 569 acc. I could be wrong tho, was many weeks ago.

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Originally Posted by Aiurily

there doesn't need to be any need to hit from the front for a4s though; don't think omnidirectional targets have ever had specific accuracy reqs either

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So you think we shouldnt have to worry about a Acc cap for the 3 adds that spawn?

So Ii am really trying to be good with Ninja and I am using the Firana rotation from page 7 but I have a 135ms latency. With that in mind, should I open my rotation with pre pull Suiton? Should I always double weave Kassastsu with Trick Attack at the opener? Why or why not?

The flank acc cap for A1S is 570iirc. And when you are attacking your add, you are most likely hitting it from the front. Which would require greater acc.

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Originally Posted by Manu-Kesna

Should I always double weave Kassastsu with Trick Attack at the opener? Why or why not?

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Double weaving allows you to get all your oGCDs in Trick Attack and it also gives you a buffer for trick attacks application.

Yeah I know but I asked because most openers in here has Kassastsu and Trick Attack separate and not together so I thought there was a really good reason for it

Hey, I would love to know what opener/rotation you are using :)

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Originally Posted by Aiurily

there doesn't need to be any need to hit from the front for a4s though; don't think omnidirectional targets have ever had specific accuracy reqs either

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In T12 blackfires seemed to be higher than flank.

Here's a question.

I'm not a ninja-centric player. I'm grinding for my zodiac (i want the glamour).

My rotation is:

MU -> DE -> SF or sacrifice 1 tick of SF for AC.

I do MU first because it lasts for a long time and wouldn't matter much for small mobs. I only do DE first if it's a boss or some very tough mobs.

The problem is when I keep using this rotation, I'm using less and less of AE, our main heavy damage. If I want to use it, either MU is going down, or Huton is going down or SF is going down. So, I had to sacrifice AE for any of the above.

I changed my rotation so I wouldn't keep SF up except for long-lasting mobs. This would get 1 AE in the rotation after DE or AC and still keep MU up.

My question is does this lower my DPS? I sacrifice SF (except for bosses/tough mobs) for AE, or only after applying it once.

Another thing. On 3+ mobs, do I either

a) Katon and Kassatsu the Doton or
b) Doton and Kassatsu the Katon.

I'm using A because obviously the Doton crits for higher each tick but I wouldn't know if B is better.

The Mudra lag is a lot worse for me, so casting Raiton seem to take a GCD while Suiton/Doton takes up as much as a GCD and a half. I have to keep still, and cast one-one-one instead of two-one. In open world, I can cast two-one no problem but in dungeons, it doesn't work and i'm left without knowing which ninjutsu I just popped, messing my rotation.

In this case, is it better to just Fuma instead of Raiton? It would be better because it would definitely get me back that missing GCD but the damage of the mudra is lower... Is this a DPS loss or increase? Assume that no DE is up and no Kiss.

That is all. Thank you.

Hrm...
You are giving MU too much credit, do not use it on trash if they are dying already too fast for SF... MU ticks are weaker than SF's, not to mention the initial damage.

I personally, on normal trash when going one by one, go SF » DE » AE/AC
If they also die too fast for SF as your opener, just forget about DoTs...

Leaving AE out of the rotation is something natural for the NIN atm, you might find the chances coming up by reflex and naturally as you play NIN. Can't be helped since its value is so low. Don't get demotivated, chances actually come often enough.

For 3+ mobs... (A) is the way to go, but if they also will not last long just double Katon (if you want), even with your lag it is a DPS gain.

As a fellow laggy NIN that will never become Hokage: Yes, Fuma > Raiton in this case, so long you are on melee range. If you are on melee range: Fuma; if you are outside melee range: Raiton.

I've never got the pleasure of having a BRD sing Foes when I am parsing stuff so I dunno about the gain/loss there...

Anyone else think its stupid that trick attack's debuff fails if we miss the positional or is it just me.

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Originally Posted by Pluvia

Screw it since we can have civil conversations in here and others can't get off of my class is harder go screw yourselves in the other threads who all thinks have trick attack not apply the debuff if it misses is stupid.

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I have absolutely no clue what this says. lol

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Originally Posted by Dante_V

I have absolutely no clue what this says. lol

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Was thinking the same lol

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Originally Posted by MiruWest

Was thinking the same lol

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Want an explanation go read the other ninja thread on the page

They need to fix mudra lag. Everything else is golden in my book.

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Originally Posted by Pluvia

Anyone else think its stupid that trick attack's debuff fails if we miss the positional or is it just me.

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I guess it kinda does make sense to do away with it. I think its the only skill in the game that still has a mechanic like that.

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Originally Posted by Dante_V

They need to fix mudra lag. Everything else is golden in my book.

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Along with reduction in TP costs.

i think a tp regen on mug would be pretty appropriate

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Originally Posted by Aiurily

i think a tp regen on mug would be pretty appropriate

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That's a really good idea.
Does seem appropriate, though stealing TP sounds weird.

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Originally Posted by Allyrion

That's a really good idea.
Does seem appropriate, though stealing TP sounds weird.

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Why? Toilet paper is super important, i would totally steal TP if i needed it.
:P

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Originally Posted by Aiurily

i think a tp regen on mug would be pretty appropriate

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Yes, add it to mug when using Kiss of the Wasp poison:

Kiss of the Wasp Effect: Changes additional effect to absorb 15% of damage as TP.

How much GCD clipping do you need to have before you should swap to Fuma from Raiton? I know I read it in this thread at one time but I can't find it now.

I find that during prime time my lag is pretty crazy and thinking I should Fuma, definitely is significant GCD clipping :(

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Originally Posted by Subucnimorning

How much GCD clipping do you need to have before you should swap to Fuma from Raiton? I know I read it in this thread at one time but I can't find it now.

I find that during prime time my lag is pretty crazy and thinking I should Fuma, definitely is significant GCD clipping :(

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Prior to HW, there was some testing done on the Japanese side of things that heavily suggested that Fuma is better than Raiton so long as 1) Dancing Edge/Storm's Eye is up and 2) Foe Requiem is not up, regardless of Mudra lag. Given the influx of Skill Speed on our gear at present, I'd be willing to bet that this is still the case, as GCD-clipping becomes more severe the shorter the GCD itself is. If the testing regarding Fuma/Raiton has been disproven, I'm not aware of it.

So generally, you should be able to safely use Fuma unless Dancing Edge is down or Foe Requiem is up, as far as I know.

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Originally Posted by Alahra

Prior to HW, there was some testing done on the Japanese side of things that heavily suggested that Fuma is better than Raiton so long as 1) Dancing Edge/Storm's Eye is up and 2) Foe Requiem is not up, regardless of Mudra lag. Given the influx of Skill Speed on our gear at present, I'd be willing to bet that this is still the case, as GCD-clipping becomes more severe the shorter the GCD itself is. If the testing regarding Fuma/Raiton has been disproven, I'm not aware of it.

So generally, you should be able to safely use Fuma unless Dancing Edge is down or Foe Requiem is up, as far as I know.

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Thanks for the advice, I had been basically doing Fuma all the time unless there was downtime from a mechanic then would do Raiton on the downtime.

right now unless you can do 14 mudras in the mudra test, probably always fuma if slash debuff is up and foe's isnt

(mudra test=321 then spam mudras, count how many you can do)

I threw away the results because it was too messy for presentation and many ninja mains kind of suspected this anyway, but when I theorycrafted it in 2.5, shuriken was pretty much always slightly better even in a completely lag-free situation unless (all this IIRC, under the assumption that it is impossible to use Raiton under Huton without clipping GCDs):

- Those odd moments when you are in range for Raiton but not in melee range
- Foe Requiem is up
- Trick Attack is up and using a Kassatsu'd Raiton would not push another skill out of its window (a little complicated! I didn't even want to look at other buffs after that)
- Slashing debuff is down
- Huton is down
- Maybe some skill speed shenanigans, I kinda forgot whether I looked at super low skill speeds
- Low-TP situations

But the difference was really, really minor. I didn't really have a look at the potency of the new stuff, nor did I have to take missed positionals into account. It might be that the results are different if you expect to miss a lot or all of them, since this lowers the potency of the GCD rotation.

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Originally Posted by SunnyHirose

- Maybe some skill speed shenanigans, I kinda forgot whether I looked at super low skill speeds

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there's actual something on this too; in some fuma exclusive rotations at higher skill speeds (around 600), you'd clip your dots by around 1.5s~, vs raiton where you reapply perfectly. probably one of the other reasons i'd use raiton i guess

So How much ST damage are you all doing with your new weapons want to compare

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Originally Posted by Pluvia

So How much ST damage are you all doing with your new weapons want to compare

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Pulled 1234 on Faust last night. No war, ilvl 190 Baked Papira Pira hq, drac pot hq. My personal best so far. I've been using Raiton consistently tho and I'm going to change to fuma next week to see if I can beat it.

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Originally Posted by Pluvia

So How much ST damage are you all doing with your new weapons want to compare

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I did 1198 on Faust on my last run. I'm i189 (can't wear my last accessory due to accuracy concerns), using HQ Black Truffle Risotto and NQ Drac pots (can't afford the good stuff sadly). It might have been higher but my group is still new to Faust, so we killed him after enrage and I died immediately after the tank did.

At 556 accuracy I've missed once on one of the prototype adds. You should be fine with your ring at 189.

Sorry for a delay y'all. My secret project is done, so I can unveil my next update to bring the others to the Ninja.

09/08/15: "They've gone to Plaid!" Update: The GDoc guide is converted into a wordpress-based website! I'm leaving the GDoc version up for one week before I revoke the shareable link. The Wordpress site has a search function, archives, and is easily accessible from any device you own. Another way to put it: "For the Ninja on the go." Additionally, based on a mechanics test I've recently completed (See "DMG Resistance Test"), I re-wrote a few equations in the OP. BiS Loadouts I'm leaving unchanged for now because I do not have all Savage Accuracy caps. If this changes before my next weekly or bi-weekly update, I will hotfix it in. Categories previously under "Rotations" I've moved under "General Tips, Tricks, and Extras."

Here is the website: https://leggerlessxiv.wordpress.com/

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Originally Posted by LordTiberiusRex

Wordpress Document

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Hooh? Neat stuff, but I still can't believe how little people think about Hide :|

Hide is a neat skill, you know? True, it can't be used in battle and for boss battles its underwelming but, what about the rest?!
Take this tip: Hide can only be used while you yourself aren't in battle. But this doesn't mean that if a party member engaged already you yourself will also be engaged.

If your enemy list is clear, you are not in battle, so that means you CAN hide so long you don't hit anything or are seen by anything.
Be a true Ninja and use Trick Attack on as many mobs as you can in all the pulls done in dungeons!!


Examples:
- Tank pulls 5 monsters and you know one is stronger than the others, Hide while running and TA that one big target, now you can use Ninjutsu for something else!!

- Tank only pulled 3 monsters and TA was on Cooldown, so of course no Hide start, but we know NIN AoE sucks and maybe 3 monsters aren't worth the problem. Limit yourself to single target only one monster until you down it, then wait around 3~5 seconds and Hide will enable since your enemy list will be clear. Now Hide and do your Ninja magic~♪

- You are doing Hunts and want to have a head start, when the pull happens for sure you will not be the priority target. Hide and TA its arse >:U!!!

- It seems Duality isn't affected by DE, so you might as well: Hide > TA > SE(BfB/pot) > GS(Dual) > AE(IR) > SE(DwD) > SF(Rai/shu) or whatever else you prefer.

- At the "Aethero-whatever current Allagan Extreme dungeon" there is a wave of mobs that includes a Chimera after clearing the mobs in the hallway, there is a 3/4 chance you will not be targetted despite the battle never been decreed as ended. You can Hide to TA the Chimera's arse. Same story for Amdapor Keep Hard, at the room with many enemy waves, the 2nd wave consists of a Succubus and 2 imps, if you stand on the edge behind them they might not notice you, so you can Hide and TA the Succubus while the Tank is building their aggro. For both cases you must wait till monster's take action before Hiding.

Hide is cool, you know >:|?!

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Originally Posted by Arkenne

- It seems Duality isn't affected by DE,

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What? Yes it is. To be sure, I just went and tested against a data set I already have, and both strikes with Duality+DE hit above the range for no DE.

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

DE What? Yes it is!!

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Blame the document!! it confused me!! >___<!!

Edit: well thats my bad but you still can't do DE and AE/AC in the same TA window if you use Hide :v (unless insane Skill Speed which everyone hates)

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Originally Posted by Arkenne

Blame the document!! it confused me!! >___<!!

Edit: well thats my bad but you still can't do DE and AE/AC in the same TA window if you use Hide :v (unless insane Skill Speed which everyone hates)

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Okay, I see where you're getting your info from. The guide on wordpress could use a rewording. What actually happens is that if the debuff is down, both strikes are treated as it being down; and if the debuff is up, both strikes are treated as it being up. The guide does kinda make it sound like both strikes are treated without the buff regardless.

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Originally Posted by Arkenne

Hooh? Neat stuff, but I still can't believe how little people think about Hide :|

Hide is a neat skill, you know? True, it can't be used in battle and for boss battles its underwelming but, what about the rest?!
Take this tip: Hide can only be used while you yourself aren't in battle. But this doesn't mean that if a party member engaged already you yourself will also be engaged.

-snip-

Hide is cool, you know >:|?!

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Probably pretty obvious, but another quick tip: use Hide as you jump, and land where you want to be, to negate the movement speed penalty.

Curious to know what you all plan to buy next with esoterics.

Personally, as NIN is my main, I plan to get all the i190 and i200 gears to try out different builds, for the fun of it.

So, against all pronostic, my next eso piece seems to be the body O__o;;

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Originally Posted by Icy_Inferno

Hide as you jump to negate the movement speed penalty.

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The movement speed penalty doesn't happen immediately as the animation starts but when the character crouches down with both weapon almost touching the floor. So you can just run closer and will not be stopped anyway...
Or have you tried jumping mid animation and see if the penalty doesn't happen until you land?? I need to test this later >:|

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Originally Posted by Pluvia

Curious to know what you all plan to buy next with esoterics.

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I'll be getting belt and wrist this week and feet next week. Can't afford ring yet unfortunately because of accuracy issues. Didn't plan any further ahead, will probably be decided by our savage progression status.

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Originally Posted by Pluvia

Curious to know what you all plan to buy next with esoterics.

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I got the Belt this week and plan to grab the pants next week for BiS. Accuracy isn't an issue so far since I'll grab some 210 accessoiries to make up for it.
Other than that there's still buff food for accuracy. D: