Pay for your inventory.

There needs to be one or two more free retainers, or a bundle/discount for buying all 6 retainers. And not some bs discount like $1 off the entirety of the purchase, but $0.30-$1.00 off of each retainer

I personally found my own solution to this

• I'm going to toss out my lvl 15 or whatever lvl armor I don't use or like to glamour as I can farm old dungeons with others I know now or by myself for gears which narrows it down a ton.

• I personally don't keep glamour cubes on me because they are craftable and very easy to make at that so I'll keep the mats I have to make them which is also less than keeping every version of every cube.

• I don't really keep dyes either because once I find a dye color/outfit set I like, it's normally one I stick with for a while besides like cubes some are craftable.

^ Solution found and I'm not too shaken on new mats because idk how many will even be added or actually used in craftings. Nor do I know how many currents will be as relevant or as hard to get as they are to date. I'll manage although a new retainer would of been nice, I'm not gonna cry over it.

They have already addressed this issue, they can either have you pay for the extra server space you are taking up.
Or you can have roll backs on your character when you disconnect and lose items ect ect. (the currently backup data like every 15 seconds, which is pretty insane)

They could also just not offer any extra retainers, and then what would you do?
Can't please everyone.

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Originally Posted by MythToken

They have already addressed this issue, they can either have you pay for the extra server space you are taking up.
Or you can have roll backs on your character when you disconnect and lose items ect ect. (the currently backup data like every 15 seconds)

They could just not offer any extra retainers, and then what would you do?

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Person, I'm going to advise you not to taunt the bulls with the cape in this thread. They did actually add more retainers to be bought which will take space on server when bought... meaning they could of offered least one for free but chose not to.

Don't provoke the people on this thread, they will ambush you worse than a pokemon ambush on a weaken pokemon. D:

Cash shop features are a slippery slope. This has been said many times already, now people who were like "nahhh" are finding it out too.

Its called an expansion for a reason. Expand my inventory please before you start destorying it with all the new items sqaure,

since you know.....

They said this expansion is gonna be as big as 2.0, kind of a no brainer if you ask me.

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Originally Posted by Adire

Cash shop features are a slippery slope. This has been said many times already, now people who were like "nahhh" are finding it out too.

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Like I said before, even free to play games don't make you subscribe to your bank space.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Adire

Cash shop features are a slippery slope. This has been said many times already, now people who were like "nahhh" are finding it out too.

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Nope, still saying "nahhh". And still don't mind.

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Originally Posted by ThinkPInk

It wouldn't be so bad if this was a free patch but with the additional cost of Heavensward I expected at least 1 free retainer or some kind of meaningful increase to inventory space. Had I know this I would have never pre-ordered. Very rarely do I complain about the cash shop but this may be pushing it too far.

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Can I just ask why people continually throw out this "if I would have known, I wouldn't have preordered."

Why are you pre ordering stuff if there are conditions that would make you regret that purchase? Why not wait for patch notes or the actual release? Some of you don't make any sense. I only preorder if I know I would have bought that no matter what.

Also, you are hoarding unnecessary stuff if you need to pay for retainers. Period. That's not a bad thing, just a fact.

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Originally Posted by SDaemon

Nope, still saying "nahhh". And still don't mind.

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Well, you know what they say about people and assumptions! I'm still pretty nahh on it as well, it would of been cool for 1 more retainer but hey least I can toss out all that gear on my one retainer making it basically an empty retainer like magic! ;)

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Originally Posted by Cirgellon

snip

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I agree with the only pre-ordering if I know I'm gonna no matter what. Besides if I didn't pre-order I probably wouldn't find any point in playing anymore as lvl 60 seems exclusively tied to expansion along with new story/dungeons/trials/job quests and additional higher level skills.

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Originally Posted by Callinon

Like I said before, even free to play games don't make you subscribe to your bank space.

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Allods Online.

Bags in the cash shop if you want a larger inventory.

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Originally Posted by Neuflune

Allods Online.

Bags in the cash shop if you want a larger inventory.

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Subscribe =/= buy.

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Originally Posted by SDaemon

Nope, still saying "nahhh". And still don't mind.

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Good for you :)

I wish I was made of enough money to be so loose with my spending as to not care about obvious cash grabs being introduced to a favorite game of a favorite hobby. But if you are, more power to you! Hopefully SE won't ever push your limits like they're pushing the limits of many people already.

I have always been loudy against the retainer rental idea from the start, but as an omni crafter+gatherer and with various melee classes in different level ranges (so needing individual gear) I gave in and rented my 2 extras. This latest retainer rental announcement really annoyed me though.

The problem isn't the monthly cost, at least in my opinion. A lot of players spend more than $30 a month on junk they don't need.

The problem is that MMO's are designed to keep players paying for the long haul. Even if they charged a flat out fee of $20 per retainer, that would still be cheaper than renting them for $1 a month for a lot of people. Heck, plenty of people play the same game for over a decade. That's $120 for just a single retainer, let alone the people who will be getting 6 of the paid things... There is honestly no end to the nickel and diming in a rental scheme and they just keep adding up. I don't like that at all...

If they want to charge for retainers, I think they should have a buy option instead of (or even as well as) a rental option. Sure, some people might not use a bought retainer for 20 months (or the equivalent to however much they choose to charge for it) and those people may lose out if buying is the only option, but selling instead of renting rewards long term loyalty instead of punishing it, and if both systems are employed then everyone benefits. SE gets plenty of money too.

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Originally Posted by Adire

Good for you :)

I wish I was made of enough money to be so loose with my spending as to not care about obvious cash grabs being introduced to a favorite game of a favorite hobby. But if you are, more power to you! Hopefully SE won't ever push your limits like they're pushing the limits of many people already.

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You assume and exaggerate far to much ;)

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Originally Posted by lololink

Subscribe =/= buy.

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"free to play games" don't make you subscribe to anything, that's why it's "free to play". The equivalent to subscribing for P2P would be microtransactions (buying) for F2P.

Edit:

I agree with the suggestion to actually buy the retainer instead of renting it, if SE insists on having the players pay for extra retainers.

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Originally Posted by SDaemon

You assume and exaggerate far to much ;)

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Care to elaborate :)?

We've got a cash shop that is steadily being expanded, with a considerable expansion to it now coming in the form of even more retainers, which actually have functionality, no assumptions or exaggerations there.

We've got a supposedly massive expansion coming up with very little done to deal with the already problematic storage problems other than asking us to potentially double our sub fee to solve the problem.

We're playing an already subscription based game, when other games (such as even some f2p ones) deal with this problem in better ways, when a subscription game SHOULD be dealing with these types of problems in a more satisfactory way.

Not assuming anything here, and not exaggerating! Just going off the information the OP referenced, straight from SE themselves!

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Originally Posted by Neuflune

"free to play games" don't make you subscribe to anything, that's why it's "free to play". The equivalent to subscribing for P2P would be microtransactions (buying) for F2P.

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In fact no, there are free-to-play games out there that include monthly rental items as part of their cash shop. Usually costumes, occasionally weapons.. depends on the game. However as you've correctly pointed out, these games have no attached subscription fee. I've never seen one that rented bank space. It probably exists now that I think about it because there are approximately infinite free-to-play games out there, so the law of large numbers comes into play.

FFXIV is not a free-to-play game.

Since FFXIV has a subscription fee attached to it, there's a certain expectation of what you're supposed to be getting. So when I say that not even a f2p game does this, it doesn't mean that it's a really cool idea and a sub game should do it. It means that even a game that doesn't have a guaranteed regular income from every one of its players doesn't stoop to this.

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Originally Posted by IceWing

There needs to be one or two more free retainers, or a bundle/discount for buying all 6 retainers. And not some bs discount like $1 off the entirety of the purchase, but $0.30-$1.00 off of each retainer

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I'd even be willing to do a one off payment such as $20-$25 per retainer for life....

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Originally Posted by Adire

Not assuming anything here, and not exaggerating! Just going off the information the OP referenced, straight from SE themselves!

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You grossly assumed my financial situation and you are exaggerating with your slippery slope paranoia.

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Originally Posted by IceWing

I'd even be willing to do a one off payment such as $20-$25 per retainer for life....

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I agree. I mean, I don't want to pay for more space when it's becoming more rapidly necessary and I think people need one more retainer for free considering the influx of new items, I would have paid for an additional retainer when it first came out if it was just one flat fee. I don't have to make continuous payments for anything else on the mog station- and I really hate the idea of a bolted-on service being added to monthly payments.

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Originally Posted by SDaemon

You grossly assumed my financial situation and you are exaggerating with your slippery slope paranoia.

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You're still making assumptions and not offering any actual insight back. You certainly didn't elaborate; you just used a logical fallacy, slick.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman

Try again.

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Originally Posted by Catwho

I also wanted to mention, for those who didn't play FFXI,

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If we're gonna compare to XI's inventory, then they need to have a ton more space for items per character. The starting inventory was lower for sure, although could be increased greatly over time, same with MH bank, then added the Aht Urhgan bank. Then they added what, two or three extra satchel/bags that equal your main bags current gobbie bag expansion. Add on the fact the items in your MH were more than show, they each held a specific amount of storage. Top it off with numerous NPCs in the cities, typically Jeuno, that held your gear sets for slips, which typically reside in your key items without clogging space.

As far as materia/SB data, would be the same as signed items in XI that get put into NPC storage, erased down to basic item. The only advantage that couldn't be expanded upon would be the AH, which even after I quit I believe they expanded more from the original 7(?) limit. So in the end, you seriously didn't need that many extra characters for mules. I personally had two extra characters, both of which were alts and not bank stores - with each holding their own gear sets.

Edit: Oh also forgot that "wardrobe" or something-another that came out after I was gone, which stored a ton of stuff.

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Originally Posted by Adire

Care to elaborate :)?

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Adire

Good for you :)

I wish I was made of enough money to be so loose with my spending as to not care about obvious cash grabs being introduced to a favorite game of a favorite hobby. But if you are, more power to you! Hopefully SE won't ever push your limits like they're pushing the limits of many people already.

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You cleaned it to sound more suggestive of them being able to up near the end but if you read most of it out loud to yourself it can sound pretty assuming of the person being able to just toss cash around vs you not being able to spurge money in the same sense, to the one reading it and maybe even a little sarcastic which is what the person was commenting on not your ending remark with SE, anyways elaborated for you.

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Originally Posted by SDaemon

You grossly assumed my financial situation and you are exaggerating with your slippery slope paranoia.

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I wouldn't bother replying if I was you, you're going to max your 20 post limit in what may stir into an endless argument.

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Originally Posted by Atlaworks

You're still making assumptions and not offering any actual insight back. You certainly didn't elaborate; you just used a logical fallacy, slick.

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LOL What?

Did you read what they wrote? They are assuming I have the money to splurged on this simply because I don't mind it. That isn't a straw-man argument on my part to say they are making assumptions. Actually know what is going on before you comment, kthnx?

Also calling out someones use of a slipper slop argument as their support isn't a strawman.

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Originally Posted by Gumbercules

this is potentially the most twisted take on a pay system for vanity items >.> the vanity items are free....the space to store them is not. :P while i personally don't care about hoarding massive amounts of glamour items, if anything i go clear items outta my retainers im unlikely using for glamour frequently, I do feel this approach means that a solution to potential glamour issues in the future will always be met with "more retainers for sale".

Would like something along the lines of spiritbond item to 100% "break" it down to learn it and have it placed on your "glamour catalog", or can still use the current system.

Edit: I think the ventures system does a good job of keeping them "tame", as someone pointed out it would take asinine amounts of time to regularly cycle them all. the market board thing i guess it can be an advantage, but again to really milk it would require a tremendous time investment. with that said, if they start to sell ventures for crysta imma choke a b^&%#! <.<

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I made a post about this a few minutes ago somewhere else. Does anyone remember Yoshi P mentioning they would add an Armor/Arms Guide somewhat like the Mount and Minion guides where it shows info about weapons and armor instead of minions when you obtain them.

This is the perfect way for them to crunch down on the inventory space players who like glamour use, or people who get special items like Best-Gown ever, Tux items that haven't been added to Armoire lists yet. You obtain X item, it gets added to your Arms Guide, when you go to apply glamour it allows you to choose from the viable gear in the Arms Guide.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SDaemon

You grossly assumed my financial situation and you are exaggerating with your slippery slope paranoia.

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Umm....lol.

I said if you have enough money to buy into what SE is doing at the moment, more power to you. I didn't exactly label you with a specific amount of wealth...I simply said you have enough money to have the willingness and ability to pay for what content SE is wanting to gate behind payment. This much can be inferred, seeing as you admitted that you're okay with things so far. So again, no assumptions :). You admitted yourself that you have enough money to currently view what SE has chosen to gate behind payment as worth your money and capable of being paid for by your money.

Also, it's not paranoia. We can see the trend developing already. I can spell it out for you if you like:

First we had fantasia and subscription to extra retainers.

Then we had a cash shop open up which included a mount and some old event items.

Then we had premium Eternal Bond options added.

Then we had dyes added, which have been 100% in game up until that point.

Now we've got more retainers (the most functional of any cash shop feature) added when we need the storage space most.

Is it paranoia to notice a clearly developing trend? Because if so, I guess everyone would be paranoid for noticing any consistency in anything.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lillia

You cleaned it to sound more suggestive of them being able to up near the end but if you read most of it out loud to yourself it can sound pretty assuming of the person being able to just toss cash around vs you not being able to spurge money in the same sense, to the one reading it and maybe even a little sarcastic which is what the person was commenting on not your ending remark with SE, anyways elaborated for you.

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My response to SDaemon should clarify for you as well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SDaemon

Snip.

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Yes, I did. Do two wrongs make a right? I just happen to dislike your snarky personal attacks as response other than actual information. That's what a strawman is: you misrepresented an argument to make it easier to attack. Then attacked it. I did leave a helpful link for you, if you need a better explanation- and please, try to tone down the sass. It doesn't help your credibility at all.

On topic- I would prefer at least for retainers to be a flat fee rather than a monthly thing, but one free one should be implemented, I feel, simply because the growing amount of items added by this patch in addition to what we already have is slowly pushing our capacities over the edge as is. It's called an optional service for a reason.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Adire

snip

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This will be my second and last reply to you as I can already tell this can start to derail any moment now.

You sounded as if you assumed he can spend money unlike yourself because he said he was fine with this and still all nahhh about it. He could be just fine with it because it doesn't affect him period, he may not hoard or glamour as much as others here. Doesn't mean he does or doesn't spend money for a retainer, I personally wouldn't know but the way you worded it could be taken in more than the context that you, yourself and another gentleman here read it.

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Originally Posted by Atlaworks

snip

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I think he's getting the slippery slope fallacy confused with someone noticing legitimate trends. I can name a ton of different negative trends that have developed in the real world even.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came_... anyone?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Atlaworks

snip

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You dislike that I called her out on her obvious assumptions and use of slipper slope fallacy, but not her snarky "Good for you, you can splurge on this" remark? You'll have to forgive me if I find double standard in that. Your link to a straw-man example is moot as my replies were not straw-man in nature.

Without reading everything posted here, i was disappointed to read they were not giving you at least 1 additional retainer for free because I feel like we are really starting to feel the squeeze of not having inventory space we desire and they are adding three jobs and ten levels worth of new items materials and stuff.

That said it's possible the problem will be alleviated somewhat by the fact that you can now desynth and trade in basically all the 2.xx gear and that they expanded what you can store in the armory chests, I know for me that frees up basically 3/4th of one of my retainers right away.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SDaemon

You dislike that I called her out on her obvious assumptions and use of slipper slope fallacy, but not her snarky "Good for you, you can splurge on this" remark? You'll have to forgive me if I find double standard in that. Your link to a straw-man example is moot as my replies were not straw-man in nature.

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I really don't need your approval to state my opinion, nor your consensus.

It is ridiculous to put so many new items into the game and not give us additional inventory space. I might pay a one time fee for additional space, but not a subscription. If I max out during the expansion I won't pay for another retainer, I'll cancel my subscription entirely. That's a promise.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Atlaworks

I really don't need your approval to state my opinion, nor your consensus.

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And yet I can still find it a double standard regardless.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MetaRed

That said it's possible the problem will be alleviated somewhat by the fact that you can now desynth and trade in basically all the 2.xx gear and that they expanded what you can store in the armory chests, I know for me that frees up basically 3/4th of one of my retainers right away.

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It also helps that we can farm lower gears that we may of saved for new classes/jobs as we get higher with our mains with less than a full party and no ilvl limit. :)

Meaning all that can be tossed out if we're willing to deal with slight RNG but fast farmings.

TLDR

SE wants more money, and you don't want to pay.
impact on game = 0

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SDaemon

You dislike that I called her out on her obvious assumptions and use of slipper slope fallacy, but not her snarky "Good for you, you can splurge on this" remark? You'll have to forgive me if I find double standard in that. Your link to a straw-man example is moot as my replies were not straw-man in nature.

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Until you can prove that we have not had those cash shop updates that I mentioned, and they are not a trend of an increasingly expanding cash shop, expanding into functionality increasingly over cosmetic items even, I don't think you're making a good case for yourself by continuing to accuse me of using the slippery slope fallacy.

Also, it looked pretty strawman to me...

You'd have to be pretty shallow to think that this isn't a cash grab, tossing in storage and gating it behind an increased sub fee as the only way to get increased storage when we already have storage issues and an expansion is going to cram more items into the game. If that's not a slip towards a slope after prior cash shop updates, I don't know what is. It's a legitimate trend.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Adire

Until you can prove that we have not had those cash shop updates that I mentioned, and they are not a trend of an increasingly expanding cash shop, expanding into functionality increasingly over cosmetic items even, I don't think you're making a good case for yourself by continuing to accuse me of using the slippery slope fallacy.

Also, it looked pretty strawman to me...

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Other than the increase in retainers which translates to more ventures going out, where is the expanding functionality coming from?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SDaemon

Other than the increase in retainers which translates to more ventures going out, where is the expanding functionality coming from?

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(Much needed) Storage.
Greatly increased sales capacity (which translates into market domination).

Whoever pays SE gets to not have their inventory crammed by the onslaught of expansion items. There's no alternative to retainer subscription as increased storage, players will have to inconvenience themselves and make do with the already quite pitiful storage.

And the ability to pay SE more and get market domination abilities over those who don't is pretty self-explanatory. On Balmung we already have someone who floods the market with certain items (like grade 1 glamour prisms). Now they can do that even more.

Real world wealth inequality being brought into the game is a bad idea, especially in a sub game. That is why I do not like these increasing cash shop updates.

This game has more inventory space than any other MMO already. Just saying.


It will never be enough space for those who like to collect/horde.

Horders gonna Horde.