selling coil runs and primals

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Originally Posted by ExKage

I think the point is that you're vilifying people over a very arbitrary set of ethics. It can be turned around that you're being a self-righteous prick

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That's it, I'm done here. I'm not playing any more, I've said my piece and I'm tired of defending myself against the most ludicrous attacks and comments. I know you're not directly calling me a self-righteous prick, but that is the implication of what you wrote. I'm not going to reply any more, I'm not going to be baited any more. You can all have a big monetarist hug and count your piles of gil.

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Originally Posted by Neuflune

Not against the people selling services, that's your job, you do what you want but...



I know a case like this. Dude advertised he was buying a clear just so he can get "Greed party" status. He cleared 'coz moneys. He still sucks. Not totally the run-seller's fault but I wish people who actually buy the clear would actually learn the fights instead of being a burden to others.

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And everyone who says sellers should help for 'free' don't fix this. Nor the people that help for free 1st clear tomes. Nor the people that carry their friends. Nor the people that cue up in df and are on the floor the whole run and get carried anyway.

The only way to stop inexperienced/unskilled people from moving forward is to cockblock them being a big prick. Kick people that die, never allow anyone a win they don't earn, never help your friends struggling. That's not going to happen. The 'carries promote bad players' is just another poorly thought out argument just like it makes people rmt. The only way to stop rmt is to remove purchasing power of gil, just like the only way to stop bads from progressing is to never help under any circumstances. It's absurd.

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Originally Posted by Izsha

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The topic was selling runs so I kept on topic.

Constantly carrying people is just as bad, I agree.

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Originally Posted by Mercutial

I have been in farm parties with individuals who I knew for a fact bought a clear for previous content. These farm parties did not go so well. My point being that a bought clear is VERY misleading to those who run with the individual in later content.

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And I've been with people who had bought their T9 clears to do FCoB and then later farmed it with me and were the best of the bunch. >___>
You can't take a sold clear player and just always assume that they are bad. Bad exists on both ends of that spectrum. People who cleared it with their tanks calling out everything are just as horrible as people who paid to clear and felt they could return to said content with no practice.

The people who actually went back and learned it though, awesome. They had to deal with the fact that no one could clear that fight despite all the practice and they did what worked. They wanted FCoB so they bought the service from people who could easily clear it.

Personally, I don't care if people buy clears or what. I bust my head against the wall enough times to hate the content that I do and finding a group of stable players to farm something is just dumb sometimes. I'd rather pay to farm T9 than go back and help anyone else with it. If anyone wants to steer clear of the battle content, then that's their choice. They going old-school since the game once boasted that you never had to do any battle content on a battle class.

Stigma is in the eyes of the player. I've seen people who bought their clears winning at the content that they bought later and I've seen people who legit won the fights and were garbage during it.

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Originally Posted by Ophie-Mio

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to piggie back off this, sometimes, someone is paying for 7 other people that also know how to do a fight, not paying for the clear.

I understand that there are exceptions. I also understand that they tend to prove the rule. Maybe it's a generational thing?? I don't know. However, I would hazard to guess that most individuals brought up during the 8-bit heyday would never think twice about buying a clear. Playing for the challenge of it and all that jazz. And yes... finding seven others equally up to snuff is part of that challenge. And with the social tools SE has put at our disposal, not as difficult a challenge as some here would have you believe.

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Originally Posted by Neuflune

The topic was selling runs so I kept on topic.

Constantly carrying people is just as bad, I agree.

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My little mini rant was more to those who don't see that connection, not you specifically. A lot of comments in these threads is a always 'sellers create bad players' idea, while at the same time post 'sellers should do it for free to "help" people (instead of the implied abuse of people)'. Yet they don't see the hypocrisy of those 2 ideas. You can't give people free carries then complain how sellers are creating masses of bad players.

I would say because people that help with clears generally take some time to go over mechanics and have the helped individual participate. People who sell clears apparently ask the same individual to go stand in the wall of death so the "professionals" can do their job.

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Originally Posted by Izsha

My little mini rant was more to those who don't see that connection, not you specifically. A lot of comments in these threads is a always 'sellers create bad players' idea, while at the same time post 'sellers should do it for free to "help" people (instead of the implied abuse of people)'. Yet they don't see the hypocrisy of those 2 ideas. You can't give people free carries then complain how sellers are creating masses of bad players.

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The motive of the people who buy clears/gets carried is more the issue than the actual buying and selling of player service, or altruism. Sometimes a person gets "carried" just because they're having really bad lag or they haven't understood the fight in its entirety yet. What's important is, what will he do afterwards? Will he keep playing without improving and never look back, or use that event as a motivation to improve and clear content on his own later on?

Rather than pointing fingers, I feel that advising people during the run, whether bought or given freely, and following up afterwards is more important than the run itself. That said, it can't be expected from a purchased clear seeing as the service ends up completion. But for those who help freely, it might be worth everyone's while to help with more than just the clear. Then again, there are people who don't take kindly to being corrected (YOU THINK YOU KNOW MY CLASS MORE THAN I DO?!) so that's another hurdle altogether.

P.S. I hate the character limit.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

Really? You're really so screwed up that because I do things for personal satisfaction, my friendship with others or to help the community in general, I'm somehow worse than the money grubbing RMTs?

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No, you haven't been comparing yourself to the RMTs, you've been comparing yourself to run sellers, they are completely different things. This already tells me that to you, any run seller = RMT. That is not the case.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

how selfless their motivation?

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How noble of you, wanna get into the altruism debate? Get off your high horse, people do nice things as a member of a society, but going around touting that and telling people in condescension that what they're doing, i.e. expecting money in return for their services, or outright selling said service, doesn't make you a superior being of impeccable ethics. If you want to help people out, by all means.. Just don't go around telling the whole world about it and telling other people how everyone else should do it too.

I'm not a smoker myself, and smoking indoors is banned where I live. Just because it's not a "vice" of mine, I'm not gonna talk to everyone I see on the streets with a cigarette in their hands and lecture them about the harm they are causing to themselves and others by second hand smoking etc. etc. Well, maybe you would..

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

That's it, I'm done here. I'm not playing any more, I've said my piece and I'm tired of defending myself against the most ludicrous attacks and comments. I know you're not directly calling me a self-righteous prick, but that is the implication of what you wrote. I'm not going to reply any more, I'm not going to be baited any more. You can all have a big monetarist hug and count your piles of gil.

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Wow, you take offense way too easily.. He didn't imply shit, you inferred it based on what you felt was the context of his writing. Self-conscious much? No wonder you go around giving people free rides, buying affection with your "services".

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Originally Posted by GenJoe

No wonder you go around giving people free rides, buying affection with your "services".

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People do not necessarily help others to buy so called affection. They do it because they enjoy helping others. Try it, you might find you like it. This is after all a social game and interacting with others other than trying to sell them something might be something some might want to do.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

People do not necessarily help others to buy so called affection. They do it because they enjoy helping others. Try it, you might find you like it. This is after all a social game and interacting with others other than trying to sell them something might be something some might want to do.

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I do help people out plenty.. I just don't come to the forums and advertise it and tell other people they should too. Read what she's written so far, you don't sense the condescension? or being unable to put in to words why she does it other than because she is "noble" and "selfless". She's attributing quality to her own character by her actions. As far as I'm concerned, you do not get to be the judge of your own character.. Anybody who does, usually has an issue with having to project their self worth outwardly.. I'm not saying helping people out is bad, but if you must do it and advertise to the whole World why it is so good etc. your motivations are twisted.

If I want to help somebody, I do it because I want to, I don't need any other excuse, I don't need to refer to a holy book, I don't need to know that I've made a worthwhile contribution to the society by my "noble" actions.. I help because I feel like helping, not so I can come to the forums and lecture other people on how they're greedy and immoral.