there's a lot of sensitive people in this game

So have you guys thought and talked about why people are so "screw the group i play how i want" in this game? What exactly is encouraging this behavior?

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Originally Posted by Kiroh

http://i.imgur.com/CKd0JpP.png

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This is the only response that should be used when dealing with terrible players with paper thin skin. Anything more is a waste of your own time.

based on your post history dont blame me if im skeptical that the only thing you said was "holy?".

sorry, not buying it.

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Originally Posted by lxChrisxl

wow this got big O.o. snip

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See if you had said "holy?" to me with a smiley, I'd have read that as "can you please do extra dps?", I wouldn't have taken offense personally, doesn't seem rude to me... or maybe I'm thicker skinned than I thought lol. Anyways I'm like Parodine, I'd be bored stiff if I couldn't do dps, when it's safe to do so. I really love big pulls, and doing healing, then holy :D

This has been blown far far out of proportion. Just accept the fact they kicked you for whatever reason justified or not and move on. Its people being people so tough. Devs can't fix people.

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Originally Posted by lxChrisxl

if a healer isn't going to use cleric stance i'd like them to tell me so i'm not wasting my time with foe's

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What you can do is look to see if they use Clerics. If they do, then you can pop Foe's as a response. If they don't, then don't cast it and you haven't wasted any time at all.

The problem may be the way it comes across, too. Saying "Holy?" makes it sound expectant, as if saying "why aren't you using Holy?". And no one should be expecting anything but the player doing their job (and a healer's job is to heal; dps healers are a bonus not a requirement). Instead, you could have said "Do you feel comfortable using Holy/DPSing a bit and I'll put up Foe's for more damage?". It sounds a lot better.

*Reads OP's Post History*

Oh it's THAT guy... move along people.

If someone said "holy?" to me they'd get a "no." certainly not a kick though... you asked a question and I'd give an answer and that should be the end of it.

but the reason I'd say no is you're all pugs, I don't know your play style and I don't trust you. Anyone of you at anytime could do something unexpected and suddenly theres spike damage.

also to the people that use "are you just gonna use cure1?" I've never been asked that btw but now I have a reply: "I am now."

Healers who don't dps with dots as sch or holy/stones as whm are either lazy, unskilled (don't have those on keybinds or even probably not even on their basic hotbars lol, maybe console players?) or both.

I've seen WHM being top dps with Holy spam (and mobs died before I was at 50% HP, cause you know... Defensive cooldowns?), or SCH with their dots on every mobs while team aoed them down

And that was in old Expert Roulette, not in Brayflox longspam

Seeing a healer standing still afk while nobody needs healing pisses me off too, when that happens I remove all Parry/vitality accessories (and switch my chest from parry acc to crit det from WoD since dungeons barely require any ACC anyway) and go from 10,800 HP to like 8,600 lol.

Hey, you aren't gonna dps, and only heal? Prepare to heal cause I'm gonna take a beating, but since you can't dish out an extra 150-250 dps for the team, better that you do something (healing more often) while I dish an extra 50 dps, I'll maybe even drop Defiance if the dps are too low lol

I only dps as sch most of the time because well, I can just slap ss on with adlo, switch to cleric prior before pull and bane and use ShadowFlare (which makes my healing life loads easier) stuff once the tank takes aggro....I'm comfortable doing that. Personally when I dps I prefer the healer NOT to dps, because I don't trust duty finder healers.

As whm unless I know you won't die and benediction isn't on cooldown, and you're not standing in stuff, I won't dps as much, I also don't trust dps or tanks as whm in duty finder :P.

As for the "holy" and you getting kicked. Personally I can't say for sure if you deserved it. I have a test I do that determines and sets the tone of a run. It's simply a simple (Hello ^.^), if others respond back in full, I ease up a bit and take every bit of advice if it's reasonable. If nothing is said to me I'm a lot more harsher with stuff.

When me and my BF run, I'll mostly dps and let eos or selene heal/buff because I know his skill level well enough.

We humans are complex and unpredictable, because of this we feel and do stuff differently. Few months ago, I would never have done any dps as a healer. The reason is, because I was not confident in both healing and doing dps and to be honest in some dungeons, I am still not confident enough to do both at the same time.

Maybe the healer was too sensative, but we do not know how this player functions in real life, for all we know he or she tried dpsing and failed. Because he/she failed, they were not confident to dps as a healer. I have seen this happen with tanks alot. New tanks join the dungeon, they make a mistake which leads to a wipe. They get insulted and have less confidence in themself as a tank. In the end the tank does less dungeons as a tank and eventually quits tanking. This is one of the reasons why we have a lack of tanks.

We as gamers need to remember that just, because Bob is a epic healer and does extra dps, does not mean Joan can do the same. Maybe Joan doesnt want do any dps and wants to only heal? Isnt this the reason why most healers leveled a healing class? To heal in dungeons? I understand that doing extra dps as a healer is a bonus for everyone, but I can also understand that as a healer, I did not level my Scholar and White Mage to do dps in dungeon. I reckon alot of players probaly feel this way.

My rule when doing dungeon is:
Tank: Keeps agro and casts defensive spells to lessen the damage received.
Dps: Does damage (his or her best) and CC when needed.
Healer: Keeps everyone alive and manages their MP pool.

Any extra dps from both tank or healer is a EXTRA, if a Dps player does some healing or tanks a mob for some reason (tank is dead), then this is also a EXTRA. When players do this, I give them a big thumbs up! But this is not a requirement when doing a dungeon its just a EXTRA BONUS to clear the dungeon faster.

The healer from OP's dungeon might have been oversensative, but aslong we dont have the full story, I can not make a judgement based on 1/2 of story.

Who are Bob and Joan? I like the sound of Joan

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Originally Posted by randysquirrel

Who are Bob and Joan? I like the sound of Joan

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Ficational characters of my new fanfiction. Please look foward to it.

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Originally Posted by randysquirrel

Who are Bob and Joan? I like the sound of Joan

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http://cstrips.bitstrips.com/79Q3P_SG8F.png

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Originally Posted by lxChrisxl

stuff.

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I find it quite cosmical that someone is complaining about over emotional people but, yet one is in here being over emotional?

Pot / Kettle maybe?

I personally would not care if someone kicked me. I would just move on my way. (even though I have yet to be kicked)

I'd be more than happy to have competent healers in my groups, you know, healers who can heal. I don't care if they can or can't DPS. I've had high expectations when I started playing my PLD because I DPS a lot with my SCH, but let's face the reality : many healers struggle to just heal.
There are also these healers who only DPS. I hate these healers more than anything else. Go play a DPS if you want to DPS and eat the 30 min DF's queue instead of wasting your party's time.

And people calling healers who can't DPS horrible... lol. Just lol.

I main White Mage. Now, having said this I don't dps sometimes. I really varies on combat conditions such as tank using cooldowns properly and as such how often will I have to stop to heal. Some fights I may work an Aero/Aero2 into but I try to get a feel for the party before I go nuts. Holy spamming in cleric puts out some nice numbers and helps but if everything goes to hell well... you get the idea. Sometimes it is better to let people do it at their own pace than to risk a repeat. Because as sure as I live some healers just can't juggle dps/healing. But that is not their primary function in the end.

I love how the title of the thread is "there's a lot of sensitive people in this game", and the OP provides ONE example - and not a great example, at that (no one was whining or yelling, "Don't tell me how to play!"). Yeah, that's sure looking like a trend, there...

It seems more likely that the OP just wanted to vent, and decided to drop it on page one of the General Discussion board.

A healer has to be the one to decided when to DPS. Allot has to do with confidence in the tank or in the group. If I run a dungeon with someone I know and I trust him I will dps. DF groups its hard at first till you figure out the skill of the tank and dps are. If you go into CS and need a emergency heal it takes time for the timer to reset and if the group dies, the healer is going to get more ripped on than for not dps'ing. A wipe costs more time. Also with speed runs and large pulls it not common for a healer to dps much anymore which makes them a little out of practice. What I find funny is how much healers have to take from people that dont heal themselves. Healers are not dps and should only dps if they feel comfortable, but there also is no reason to not dps if the time is available..

Ran Ramuh EX yesterday in DF (*sob*) Before the match starts, me and another start asking, "So, does anyone not know the fight"? This is asked about 3 times, one person confesses and we clarify orbs for her. Great, we all good? Lets pull! First chaotic strike, 2 people get charmed and fried. Tank dies to shock strike. Wipe.

Wiping isn't bad. Not knowing the fight isn't bad. Not speaking up isn't even bad, whatever it's not like it isn't going to be obvious first run who can't do the duty. But when i'm being "RUDE" or "MEAN" for asking you if you're about to start feeding in an 8-player trial, i just don't know how to deal with that.

While we're on this topic, could we talk about what we healers want for other party members to do? WAIT FOR THE BUFFS. :D

When in dungeon we do buffs at the start. Right? Doesn't take more than few seconds. What I absolutely hate is people who just run off without waiting those few seconds it takes me to put buffs on you. "GOTTA SPEEDRUN THIS, CAN'T WAIT FOR PROTECT/STONESKIN!" Oh trust me honey, I most likely won't give you protect/stoneskin if you can't wait for it and ask for it later. Probably makes my job as a healer harder but it's my decision.

As long as the user does his job is all good. What I cannot understand them DELUDED kids telling you what you need to be using and doing Rather than advising you ( which is a completely different thing than TELLING you what to do.)

"don't use Fire 2, is bad DPS, 1v1 faster"

Bane of low-level duty roulette. Having a THM in the party is just about the best thing that can happen in pre-50 dungeons, and idiots like this ruin it completely.

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Originally Posted by lxChrisxl

got kicked out of a lost city duty run for simply saying "holy?" to a healer.

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Dayum, this could have been me, but sadly im a Scholar :(

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Originally Posted by Aurora-Pendragon

I'd be more than happy to have competent healers in my groups, you know, healers who can heal. I don't care if they can or can't DPS. I've had high expectations when I started playing my PLD because I DPS a lot with my SCH, but let's face the reality : many healers struggle to just heal.
There are also these healers who only DPS. I hate these healers more than anything else. Go play a DPS if you want to DPS and eat the 30 min DF's queue instead of wasting your party's time.

And people calling healers who can't DPS horrible... lol. Just lol.

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First of all, that's a great point. No one has said anything about healers who only dps and neglect their healing duties. If they did I missed it.
Good on ya for that. ;)

However, you say healers who "can't" dps. If a tank is horrible, squishy, and impatient then ya the healer has some extra responsibility. But to say "can't dps" is to say "can't switch to a target a throw a DoT". In which case yes, they are not a very good healer if something so simple is going to be a problem for them.

In turn, a tank that can't stun aoes or at least move, a dps that can't stun or flip switches, or any player in general that can't do anything outside of their role is just not very good, or at the very least not interested in improving.

If a healer is just timid altogether and isn't comfortable dpsing then fine. But understand there are some tanks out there who will gladly take a wipe or two for you to get into your comfort zone and see what you can REALLY do. :cool:

I'd rather wipe a couple times with 1-2 healers who are trying to push their limits and improve themselves as a player than a couple of healers who stand back and say, "I know I gots full mana, but aint muh job bruh"

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Originally Posted by Aurora-Pendragon

I'd be more than happy to have competent healers in my groups, you know, healers who can heal. I don't care if they can or can't DPS. I've had high expectations when I started playing my PLD because I DPS a lot with my SCH, but let's face the reality : many healers struggle to just heal.
There are also these healers who only DPS. I hate these healers more than anything else. Go play a DPS if you want to DPS and eat the 30 min DF's queue instead of wasting your party's time.

And people calling healers who can't DPS horrible... lol. Just lol.

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People who can't manage to heal and do a minimal amount of dps while keeping the group alive 99% of the time are bad. (maxing the dps obviously more challenging.)

Just like tanks who do a whole expert without using 1 cooldown, cause why bother shit dies eventually anyway.

Or dps who spam 1 button whole time, instead of doing rotation because why bother shit dies eventually anyway.

Probably preemptively kicked due to playstyles... Many who start with "Holy?" Tend to not let it go until the healer starts holying (even if the healer isn't comfortable with it). I don't speak up in inconsequential content like dungeons unless it is something that is going to make us fail. Or in lower levels of someone is struggling with a basic class mechanic such as flashing etc.

I'm a firm believer in healers dpsing as much as they can (because healing 4 mans in this game is laughable). But if I get a random healer, whatever, I don't care what they do unless we die due to lack of healing.

It's important not to lump everyone under the same umbrella simply because they aren't performing as expected. Some people may be playing with kids on their lap and not want to risk another distraction, some people may be playing with disabilities, some people may have high latency and not wish to risk a wipe, some people may be uncomfortable or nervous and not want to get yelled at, some people may be healing the dungeon for the first time, some people may simply forget for a run because they're talking to people and autopiloting through stuff, some people may simply not feel like it today when they usually do.

There are any number of reasons why a person might not DPS when healing, and slapping the "bad" label on them and filing them away speaks more to a person's own judgmental nature than the quality of the player they're talking about. As with Kazumac above, I'm a very firm believer in DPSing as a healer. Even if I don't know the dungeon I'll DPS it on my first run because I know my own limits. I do not, however, expect that of others naturally. It's simply a wonderful bonus (and a guaranteed commendation!) when I notice it on the rare occasion I'm not healing myself and that's as it should be. Ultimately, as long as the healer is healing and the group is alive then they're meeting their assigned goal for group play.

Healers who don't dps: Mediocre to okay healers.
Healers who dps and keep everyone alive: Good to great healers.

Just my opinion.

I definitely don't get the "Healers who don't DPS suck!" point of view. I don't hire a personal chef to fix my car, and his ability to fix said car shouldn't reflect on his cooking skill. And as for the CNJ questline, I'm pretty sure we'd have the same problems with Sylphie using her lifeforce to cast Stone II.

I had a kid and there parrot keep insulting me for using Ifrit Egi. <.<

This game is full of baddies, more news at 11.

By the way I know you, yes you, you're scrambling to check my Lodestone for my T13 win right now after that statement, good for you.

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Originally Posted by Naliee

While we're on this topic, could we talk about what we healers want for other party members to do? WAIT FOR THE BUFFS. :D

When in dungeon we do buffs at the start. Right? Doesn't take more than few seconds. What I absolutely hate is people who just run off without waiting those few seconds it takes me to put buffs on you. "GOTTA SPEEDRUN THIS, CAN'T WAIT FOR PROTECT/STONESKIN!" Oh trust me honey, I most likely won't give you protect/stoneskin if you can't wait for it and ask for it later. Probably makes my job as a healer harder but it's my decision.

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My biggest peeve ever! If you wait 10 seconds for buffs (at the very least for the tank), I can dps more! Have time to shadowflare and dot all the mobs and maybe some ruins before I have to throw my first physic/adlo. Well, depending on the pull. But good tanks when making big pulls grab hate on all the mobs so can reapply adlo and stoneskin before we get them all.

But back on point, if that really was all that happened, vote kick is a bit severe. But what I really love, are all the responses from people that say like "Would have been better if you said 'Could you please throw in a holy if you feel comfortable with it?'". If I try to run and type more than two words, I run into walls or mobs and pull aggro. lol. I know I can't type and play at the same time so I don't say much.

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Originally Posted by MeeDeggiThePunisher

I definitely don't get the "Healers who don't DPS suck!" point of view. I don't hire a personal chef to fix my car, and his ability to fix said car shouldn't reflect on his cooking skill. And as for the CNJ questline, I'm pretty sure we'd have the same problems with Sylphie using her lifeforce to cast Stone II.

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I personally don't think they suck, just that they're lazy. Your analogy with a chef fixing your car isn't appropriate; he isn't given the tools to fix a car when doing his primary job. Healers are not only given DPS tools, but they mitigate damage and are very good.

Chris, what you did is take a good initiative to speed up the run while as you state, the risks are absolutely low. As you said, if healer didn't feel comfortable with a technique, they can simple say so and life goes on... vote kick is an extreme measure no matter what the reason is. From my experience, I never vote kick any player when things get messy.

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Originally Posted by Hyunckel

Seeing a healer standing still afk while nobody needs healing pisses me off too, when that happens I remove all Parry/vitality accessories (and switch my chest from parry acc to crit det from WoD since dungeons barely require any ACC anyway) and go from 10,800 HP to like 8,600 lol.

Hey, you aren't gonna dps, and only heal? Prepare to heal cause I'm gonna take a beating, but since you can't dish out an extra 150-250 dps for the team, better that you do something (healing more often) while I dish an extra 50 dps, I'll maybe even drop Defiance if the dps are too low lol

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I'm sorry but tanking and stupidity don't go well together. Any healer who sees that would be well advised to send you on your way.

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Originally Posted by lxChrisxl

got kicked out of a lost city duty run for simply saying "holy?" to a healer. tank pulled everything before the steps, i popped mantra then played foe's but they stood there even when nobody needed healing. didn't say anything, figured maybe they weren't comfortable with using holy or cleric stance with a group of enemies at 50-75%. they got lower though, nobody needed any healing and still nothing so i wrote "holy?" and that was it. nothing more and nothing less. tank and healer were in an fc together and booted me because "they didn't like my attitude" lol. not the first time something like this has happened either to me or to randoms and friends. this really needs to stop. it's the internet, if you're going to be that sensitive here you might as well stay in a bubble because somebody that actually wants to be mean will make it their job to annoy you or hurt your feelings which you make very easy.

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First of all, report the duo. That is a fine example of misusing the vote dismiss function. The reasons you get are: [AFK] [Offline] [Harassment] [Cheating].

Ask yourself, did your inquisitive suggestion fall into any one of these categories? If you feel yes, then do not file a report. You are then guilty as charged and deserved the end result. If your answer is no, then file that damn report!

You can be removed at any time if the vote passes through. But you cannot be removed wrongfully and that constitutes a chalk mark on their accounts to put some weight towards wrong-doings.

This next part may be tl; dr, so go ahead and skip down to the end for a summary if you aren't in the mood to do some reading.

Secondly, the way you "suggested" the healer do something to help the group's damage was not very helpful. You sound like a 16 year old tween brat of a girl: "uhh, tank? Like, hello, do your job. Gosh!" How about you use that public education and put it to use with say... the construction of a sentence? Really, it doesn't take that much time or effort as texting so likes to differ. This is a fine example of where had you said something differently, the outcome would have been different. That you were the one in control with a list of options at hand and chose poorly or wrongly.

Thirdly, it is not a healer's job to DPS. They have DPS capabilities, but you have to understand that without them, they could almost never have leveled up to 50 as fast as every other class/job. One can argue that they could solely level up through party interactions and cooperative progressions. But their DPS capabilities are for the sake of speeding up the process so they wouldn't have to form a party at level 3 and gain experience points at a split rate.

Yes, it is helpful if a healer "multi-tasked" and did everything to the highest level of efficiency at any given moment to help the group progress quicker. But put YOURSELF into their shoes. Imagine the button mashing and the increased hand to eye coordination you have to make yourself do with the given controls. Monitoring not just party health and current environment mechanicms (AoEs, cast bars, party chat, etc) while you just sit there and press between 1-5 buttons in cycle of each other. That's a big F You Mister if I ever saw one.

tl;dr

1. Change how you communicate to people. Further elaboration may be helpful.
2. Healers are not DPSers.
3. Don't expect every healer to care the same as the ones you're acquainted with. Likewise, you can't expect every DPS to be as efficient and not every tank in the same sense.
4. Don't be a jerk and intrude in with your set of expectations. You chose to join via random DF, so then deal with what you're given.
5. Put yourself in the pilot seat of what a healer would have to do to live up to your expectations.

- A bad DPS is who screws up his DPS rotation, pull out low numbers, which are actually part of the job,not because he could not HEAL HIMSELF (Second wind/Physik) nor to minimize or even preventing the dealt damage (Manaward/Manawall/Foresight) or help reducing damage on the tank (Virus/EfE/Apo)
- A bad Tank is who could not pop the CD for appropriate time, fail to hold agro, which actually a part of the role, not because he could deal big number despite he could and had the tools (Berserk/Sword Oath) to do so.
- A bad Healer is who could not multi-tasking, to DPS and to Heal no matter how perfect he heals the party. It conveniently gets ignored. To Heal is part of the job, To DPS is not part og the job.

Screw logic, screw fairness, screw the I play how I want to play as long as i don't fail at my primary role and what I am here for, yo Heal.

Regarding the example of a chief being asked to fix the car and someone mentioned he did not have the tool to perform such tasks. How about the hirer gives him the tools and "Here, the tools, fix it!" ? He will still refuse because he lacks of skills and knowledge to give an operation on the car. The hirer can not fire him just because he could not do it nor force him to do it or pointing finger at him and say the chief is suck. You don't need to be a chief to fix a car nor have to be a mechanic to fix your own car. All you need is the confident and skill to carry out the maintenance or it will end up as a mess. The same can be said for those who call Healer is suck at his job just because they don't DpS. Leave that decision to the Healer himselves, please.!!!!

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

Eos>>>Selene XD

Magic damage reduction buff so less damage to heal, means I can pewpew more, extra AE heal/hot, buff mu heals and Eos so my Adlo and Succor shields for more, so I can pewpew more ^_^ Pop Fey Illu+Rouse and Eos heals like a baws X
DEos, overall brings more than Selene, which has been tested and calculated that BLM gets the most benefit from Selene and that is about a 1% DPS increase, Whereas Eos allows the SCH to DPS even more. Not to mention, like in t13, Fey Covenant for giggleflare saves a aetherstack for other uses.

I call it giggleflare :P If he did a pelvic thrust while casting, t'would be called Giggityflare!

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I please ask you to call out your source and test again, but this time with the blm in range and with the buff actually on. This statement is true but only the part about your own pewpew purpose, which I agree is the best. But not for your party with even only one blm. I have a dps increase of almost a 40% with Selene and not just once, always. The spell speed gained is insane and definetly is to choose over an Eos that benefits your pewpew performance. You might agree with me, it's better to make the actual dps in the party stand out than the healer's pewpew. I as a sch rather have the blm (since he has the job) do more damage than little me on cleric stance trying to match the blm.

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Originally Posted by LionKing

snip

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Oh yeah, because DPS will always get hit by attacks like clockwork, have those abilities on tap, know WHEN to cast those abilities while doing their rotations...
Or Tanks will randomly give DPS the chance to override their hate because they want to act like DPS when unlike SCH and WHM, only WAR can put out numbers even close to typical DPS numbers without hate being overridden.

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Screw logic, screw fairness, screw the I play how I want to play as long as i don't fail at my primary role and what I am here for, yo Heal.

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Conjurer NPCs and CNJ Headmaster says otherwise...

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Regarding the example of a chief being asked to fix the car and someone mentioned he did not have the tool to perform such tasks. How about the hirer gives him the tools and "Here, the tools, fix it!" ? He will still refuse because he lacks of skills and knowledge to give an operation on the car. The hirer can not fire him just because he could not do it nor force him to do it or pointing finger at him and say the chief is suck. You don't need to be a chief to fix a car nor have to be a mechanic to fix your own car. All you need is the confident and skill to carry out the maintenance or it will end up as a mess. The same can be said for those who call Healer is suck at his job just because they don't DpS. Leave that decision to the Healer himselves, please.!!!!

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Yeah! Because me getting full party comms and massive comms from raids as a WHM that knows how to attack and heal says otherwise...oh wait.

Unlike DPS who may not even HAVE those abilities on tap or PLD and WARs who may not have the skills to maximize their DPS, WHM and SCHs HAVE their ability to DPS RIGHT ON THE SPOT!
CS grants 20% boost in power along with switching MND to INT, Aero by itself is a big boon to DPS since it helps kill enemies faster, even casting a single Stone I or II is a massive help to the tank and let's not even touch Holy...
On top of that, DS + Regen can easily pick up the slack for casting a single Holy. And people DO call out DPS who screws up on their rotations and Tanks that don't pop CDs, the difference is that while healers HAVE the choice to DPS or not, expect some people to be outright PISSED that you are taking the easy route because "It's not what we should do" despite the game saying otherwise numerous times through Medic Enemies, NPCs and the CNJ headmaster.
I have no issue if a healer doesn't want to DPS, just don't expect a Comm or a GG from me.