Final coil in duty finder

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Originally Posted by Zumi

Some jp guy parsed load stone data for the final coil pet, it really was 10% on JP servers, and as low as 5% on NA/EU servers. The data on loadstone shows it was 5 to 10 % of the playerbase beat final coil.

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And this is counting those who can't find groups and those who just don't do coil yes? Come on now I'm not saying some people don't difficult time (LOL i have it myself just getting groups getting caught up) But there are alot of other factors most notable the one shot or you are out mentally alot of people have now.

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Originally Posted by GiseleValkyrie

And this is counting those who can't find groups and those who just don't do coil yes?

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There's a case to be made for those who don't do Coil for various reasons (work, school, other obligations), but not being able to find a group shouldn't be one of them. Take some initiative, start a group yourself.

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

There's a case to be made for those who don't do Coil for various reasons (work, school, other obligations), but not being able to find a group shouldn't be one of them. Take some initiative, start a group yourself.

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I wasn't talking about myself I get by with a few things on PF just fine but I can dig where you coming from.

There are a lot of tools available to find groups these fourms and many other community fourms. If coil is important to you it isn't that hard to find a group it just requires some effort. I see many groups trying to recruit in party finder as well.

The sad truth of difficult endgame MMO content is, yeah, at some point you're going to have to socialize with other players in order to complete it.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

Some jp guy parsed load stone data for the final coil pet, it really was 10% on JP servers, and as low as 5% on NA/EU servers. The data on loadstone shows it was 5 to 10 % of the playerbase beat final coil.

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Yeah, but you have to omit groups of people like casual players and crafters, those that just aren't interested.

A better question is, of the people that WANT to do coil, what percentage have completed it?

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Originally Posted by PArcher

Um...lol

FCoB is going to be nearly impossible to DF as it is right now. A lot of precision and coordination is required of everyone in the raid. DF just won't cut it.

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Everyone said the same thing about T5 and SCoB. Yet people cleared them through DF no problem. I love how some raiders think because they down a turn by watching MrHappy's latest video equals "the rest of you all can't do it, so no DF"

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Originally Posted by Lufir

Everyone said the same thing about T5 and SCoB. Yet people cleared them through DF no problem. I love how some raiders think because they down a turn by watching MrHappy's latest video equals "the rest of you all can't do it, so no DF"

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Exactly. I know people like to watch videos, but I think alot of people would like to try it a few times to get the feel of it. And why are people so afraid for it to be in DF, especially the ones that already have statics and such...how would adding it to DF negatively affect you? It wouldn't hurt your ability to form a party cause you already have one and have already been doing that before its been in DF. Its to help others. Why some people think that everybody has to do things the way they do it is beyond me. I hate watching videos. i tried with leviathan, I knew what was gonna happen but its one thing to know and another to actually spend time getting used to game time speed. All this will do is help people.

I even have a better idea. They can add final coil to DF, but if its in DF, take off weekly loot restriction if you do it in DF. For ex: if you are alone when you queue FCoB in DF, if you complete it, you can loot, even if you have been locked out before. It would encourage people to try it randomly and work with others to complete it. It would cut down on some of the rage quitting, and would help people help others to understand mechanics and teamwork.

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Originally Posted by Ophie-Mio

No, stuff is impossible to beat in DF because for every person who goes in ready and capable of beating it, there are two who come in completely blind to the fight and expect it to be cool. They don't mention that they are new and they can't do anything but hinder the players who do know.

NA (can't speak for EU) servers need to watch videos or practice on PF until they are ready for the DF. Japanese players seem to have that sort of thing down where their successes come from DF, not PF.

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I Tend to practice in duty finder, and look for clear groups in party finder.... I never expect a clear in duty finder, but in party finder I do.

Duty finder just seems like more of a place for practice runs to me....

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Originally Posted by Mission

I Tend to practice in duty finder, and look for clear groups in party finder.... I never expect a clear in duty finder, but in party finder I do.

Duty finder just seems like more of a place for practice runs to me....

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Sorry if I sound insultive, but I really... disagree with that mindset. If a partyfinder (clear) group cannot find, say, a tank, a healer, or a DPS, said party shouldn't have to teach others in a Duty Finder queue the basics of the fight.

Also, I really, really doubt people will be able to clear T12 in Duty Finder. Same with T13. No way lol. T10, ya. T11? Maybe. T12 and 13- no. Not unless massive, unneeded nerfs come in.
"But if T12-13 can't be cleared via dutyfinder, then the nerfs are needed", NO. It just means players need to learn the mechanics and/or their class in respect to the turn.

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Originally Posted by Skeith-Adeline

Sorry if I sound insultive, but I really... disagree with that mindset. If a partyfinder (clear) group cannot find, say, a tank, a healer, or a DPS, said party shouldn't have to teach others in a Duty Finder queue the basics of the fight.

Also, I really, really doubt people will be able to clear T12 in Duty Finder. Same with T13. No way lol. T10, ya. T11? Maybe. T12 and 13- no. Not unless massive, unneeded nerfs come in.
"But if T12-13 can't be cleared via dutyfinder, then the nerfs are needed", NO. It just means players need to learn the mechanics and/or their class in respect to the turn.

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Why i use the duty finder for practice..is because you can't control ppls ilvl in duty finder..some queue at the bare minimum ilvl..which most likely wont be a clear. So on that note..why use df for anything other than practice

HEY GUYS WE'RE GETTING FINAL COIL IN DUTY FINDER IN TWO WEEKS!!!

http://mlpforums.com/uploads/post_im...man-rgmxob.jpg

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Originally Posted by Mission

Why i use the duty finder for practice..is because you can't control ppls ilvl in duty finder..some queue at the bare minimum ilvl..which most likely wont be a clear. So on that note..why use df for anything other than practice

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It's double edged really. Because of that, I can't fault you (nor should others). Some people say you shouldn't expect persons who know the fight, and others say you should expect(in the Duty Finder). No parties are technically wrong, but they do disagree with eachother.

The Duty Finder is for random people. If I am really serious about clearing something and wanna do it in one shot or two, im gonna go in with people I know can give me that. You are not guaranteed that with DF. Why people think DF is for only people that know what they are doing is beyond me. Its like going to play a pu game of basketball at the park. If you are making a team of random people you find at the park, you can't expect that same team to be as good as the team you make and bring to the park with you. Simple as that. Everybod has different play styles, different reasons for doing said duty, etc. So im with the previous poster who said they would use it to practice

With all the guides and vids of kills out now Id expect at least a quick watch of what your class does in whatever fight and the main mechanics. Even if people are progressing in DF, going in and wasting DF time explaining what you couldve seen already is just that.. a waste of time. And no i dont mean the little minute things like finding perfect timing on transitions or something, Im talking big "Oh what's a Critical Rip, Nerve Gas, Revelation, Fountain of Fire, Teraflare" type explanations. You gonna ask it anyway if u go in blind, go skim over the main mechanics a couple times so you, and the 7 other people, can spend more time progressing in whatever, or even possibly down the boss.

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Originally Posted by QiLymePye

The Duty Finder is for random people. If I am really serious about clearing something and wanna do it in one shot or two, im gonna go in with people I know can give me that. You are not guaranteed that with DF. Why people think DF is for only people that know what they are doing is beyond me. Its like going to play a pu game of basketball at the park. If you are making a team of random people you find at the park, you can't expect that same team to be as good as the team you make and bring to the park with you. Simple as that. Everybod has different play styles, different reasons for doing said duty, etc. So im with the previous poster who said they would use it to practice

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The thing is the JP data centers have the opposite approach to DF/PF then the NA/EU. The JP community as a whole believes someone should not queue for the DF unless they 100% know the fight and are able to clear it. PF however is for where the practicing is done. Once they practiced enough in PF they go to DF for their farming purposes.

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Originally Posted by Tommyhawk

I'm sure this has been brought up before, but please put the final coil in duty finder already.

I don't have the ability to commit to the time requirements that statics request and the party finder rarely, if ever has a final coil group and my own finder times out multiple times with at most 1 or 2 people joining

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Only if all runs are recorded and posted so we can all collectively laugh at the DF derpage.

Will the loot lockout be lifted when FCoB is put in DF?

all DF que are learning parties

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Originally Posted by Grotesque

Will the loot lockout be lifted when FCoB is put in DF?

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For the past 2 Coils this has been the case, so... yeah, probably.

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

For the past 2 Coils this has been the case, so... yeah, probably.

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They didn't say anything about poetics, so I'd hope they change it to CT-style lockout. Leaving poetics locked and coil not is a stupid idea.

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Originally Posted by Grotesque

Will the loot lockout be lifted when FCoB is put in DF?

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Yeah, it doesn't make much sense to put it into the DF without lifting the lockout, honestly.

It'll be nice to be able to farm some of the gear I haven't been lucky enough to get.

It's not really a stupid idea (still gotta work for your i130 dreadwyrm stuff, still an advantage to people in raid content), but I imagine they'll just uncap Poetics when they add Echo to FCoB. Or they just didn't mention Poetics getting uncapped in 2.55 for whatever reason. Don't imagine they'll suddenly shift the lockout to a loot one when they've never done so in the past when they had the chance to, especially when they're making WoD farmable.

Can taste them dread pants already!

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Originally Posted by Sessurea

Can taste them dread pants already!

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And here I thought you were supposed to wear them.

I've been doing it wrong all this time!

I'm okay with Coil being in DF. The nerf was something expected, and it will come when the dev team decide it. However, I'm not worrying about it at all. Lots of people are still stuck in T5, not to mention this even harder wall called T9. Chances are that a few minority of players will attempt FCOB via DF. But that's not the reason why I'm not concerned. This week I've created an alter in Hyperion, since I moved to Gilgamesh... and I decided to gear that character up by DFing SCOB. I decided to not accept help from people just to experience how people get geared up in the 2.5. Since I hit level 50, for 1 full week, I've been running mostly SCOB for 5/6 hours per day. (Yay, vacations) The results were quite interesting:


- Half of the time I've found the same people, who were farming as I was and they were super friendly. Sadly, they were from different servers. :(
- Some people were really "bad", since they just couldn't handle mechanics in T6 and 7 right. They just stay quiet, don't say anything. You can't tell if they get or they don't get the given instructions and explanations.
- Other groups, having a majority of guys who knew the whole thing, tend to KICK players who either don't learn or they can handle mechanics right after a couple of runs.
- I rarely found a group were the majority was new. These groups usually disbanded after a couple of tries. I swear I did my best to explain every single mechanic to the people who needed it.
- Other groups had the insta-quitter after the first wipe.
- Other group had new people but they were fast learners or either watched a video or read a guide. People have a stigma with this one, with all these video thingies. They prefer to experience the game rather than following a script and I don't blame them for that.
- T8 was a completely different story. People rarely can do it. Most of them need, at least, 1 guy that knows the towers/ballistic/AF.
- I didn't DF T9 for obvious reasons. I cleared it with my FC.

In my opinion, when I used to farm SCOB at first (when the lockouts were lifted) was OK, a lot of groups that knew the whole fight FARMED SCOB to gear up their other classes. Nowdays, it's a risky land where everyday you'll find either 2/3 new guys thinking that Coil is like Anantaboga or the Tomberry King. No, just NO. Other players have a true desire to learn. They pay attention, they listen. They follow instructions. After a couple of wipes, they get it.

The difficulty curve from BCOB to FCOB is really notorious. T6 is "harder" than T1, and I bet that T10 after the nerfs will even be harder than T6. If I compare the results I've got from DFing both Coils, I can say that people don't expect this difficulty peak. I mean, think about T1. You DPS a snake. There's a split. You kill both. Win. T2: Enrage, nuff said. T4: Kill adds. Now compare these turns with the SCOB turns... even if you can faceroll them, if you don't learn the mechanics, you'll probably cause a wipe. Giving Rafflesia a lot of stacks, eating the whole group. Attacking slugs. Not breaking briars, not killing bee. Making the fight "harder" by not attacking the bulbs... just to mention a few mechanics in there. So yeah, don't come here with the "it's easy, bleh" thing because you need to experience how other people manage these fights. Being easy for you doesn't mean that it's easy for everybody. People who will attempt FCOB, already know what they are going to face. They faced it with SCOB, coming from baby raid BCOB, I bet my kindey that they realized that it's not a cake walk and it requires some effort.

Now, about T13. T5 didn't get nerfed... that much. They did some "adjustments" with the twisters and the enrage time. T9 will face the same fate, they won't nerf it at all, outside adding up some echo. Chances are that, even if they nerf T10-12, 13 will remain the same. That will be the nightmare for several groups, as either Twintania or Nael Deus Darnus is now for others.

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

And here I thought you were supposed to wear them.

I've been doing it wrong all this time!

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...now I'm thinking what they taste like, and now, what are they made from. I am certified-bored =D

Impossible in NA server does not mean impossible to clear.. come to jp..and ull see how df scob is being steam rolled like garuda ex..

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Originally Posted by leoc85

Impossible in NA server does not mean impossible to clear.. come to jp..and ull see how df scob is being steam rolled like garuda ex..

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That's because JP tends to have a different attitude toward DF than NA does.

NA players will jump into DF en masse with zero experience.

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Originally Posted by leoc85

Impossible in NA server does not mean impossible to clear.. come to jp..and ull see how df scob is being steam rolled like garuda ex..

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Its like I said before JP players will not queue for the DF unless they 100% know a fight. They practice in PF once they know the fight then they use DF. They don't want to embarrass themselves in DF and that is why they won't queue for it unless they know they can win the fight.

NA/EU players do not care about knowing a fight they will queue for DF with knowing nothing and wipe the group a bunch. 2 different philosophies. With Japan you do not do actions which will bring a whole group down like going in to a DF blind and wiping a group, since they care about honor more and wiping a bunch of people and wasting other people's time is very dishonorable.

Unless you have a work schedule that changes on a day to day basis so it's impossible for you to know when you will be able to play, there's no excuse for you to not be able to make or join a static.

Ironically, clearing this stuff in duty finder would actually take longer and be more difficult then just doing it with a static group. Random players are incompetent and rarely work together well.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

Unless you have a work schedule that changes on a day to day basis so it's impossible for you to know when you will be able to play, there's no excuse for you to not be able to make or join a static.

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People have real life commitments outside of work that make joining statics difficult.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

Unless you have a work schedule that changes on a day to day basis so it's impossible for you to know when you will be able to play, there's no excuse for you to not be able to make or join a static.

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So people that have kids don't have an excuse for not being able to make or join a static?

Work isn't the only real life commitment that keeps people from being ingame at set times.

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

So people that have kids don't have an excuse for not being able to make or join a static?

Work isn't the only real life commitment that keeps people from being ingame at set times.

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Just gonna put this out there, there are people in my group that have families and with children of their own, my WOW guild had an average age of around 36 with many with professional jobs and families with multiple children.

It can be done and its all about how you timetable things which is no fault of the game as opposed to personal situation, if this causes them to spend less time with the game, naturally it will mean slower progression but thats the nature of the beast.

Should also note, we run for upto 2 hours 3 times a week and on T13.

2 hours isn't a great deal of time.

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

So people that have kids don't have an excuse for not being able to make or join a static?

Work isn't the only real life commitment that keeps people from being ingame at set times.

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Half my old static had kids. They played after the kids' bedtime on weekends.

One of the interviews following PAX East suggested that Bahamut will play a role in the backstory of Heavenward, and with the level cap increasing, there's more reason for them to nerf T5/T9/T13.

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Originally Posted by Lufir

I love how some raiders think because they down a turn by watching MrHappy's latest video equals "the rest of you all can't do it, so no DF"

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If you think players are downing turns "by watching Mr Happy" (one of the worst guides currently available) then you're spitting on all the statics who spend days, sometimes WEEKS mastering each mechanic.

i tend to help people out with things like weekly clears. But I put a LOT of time into perfecting my rotation on both tank and DPS. I do think that it will be clear able through DF, but people are going to need nerfs+learning.

(Edit: Formatting, some grammar)

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

Unless you have a work schedule that changes on a day to day basis so it's impossible for you to know when you will be able to play, there's no excuse for you to not be able to make or join a static.

Ironically, clearing this stuff in duty finder would actually take longer and be more difficult then just doing it with a static group. Random players are incompetent and rarely work together well.

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Oh hey I have a work schedule like that!....

...Shit.

Nah but seriously I have a group of friends from my FC which I generally play with and they are more than eight people so flexible roster, once everyone gets t9 down and final coil is added to the DF with no lockout it will be much easier for us to do that endgame content so I can't wait. :D

Why is it that people think that because they know a few or "half" of their fc that have kids and play and "they" can find time, that everyone should have no problems? Remember the amount of people that you "think" you know with what you think are the same issues does not represent the majority with that issue. Everyone is different. I have 3 kids, they don't even live with me. Does that mean I should have more time because they don't live with me? Does it mean I shouldn't have more time because I'm working all the time to support them? You can never judge someone's life and living challenges based on someone else's life. Too many variables that you don't even know exist between the two. Just look at the fact that people are asking for it to be added to DF, those are the people SE will base it on, not the ones to whom it will not apply. If you don't wan't final coil in DF, then don't df it if its there. problem solved.

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Originally Posted by QiLymePye

Why is it that people think that because they know a few or "half" of their fc that have kids and play and "they" can find time, that everyone should have no problems? .

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Forum posters are considered the noisiest players, not the majority, even your claim has no actual statistical basis, people in the thread used examples and how people in similar positions manage rather then a 1 sided view on it.

One of the main reasons SE didnt put it on DF is due to the failure rate and expected people to actually find people to practice with to do content, coil requires practice with roughly the same people week in and week out.

Titan ex is prob the best example here, the DF had a huge failure rate because people didnt form premade groups at the time to practice it, instead they took the anonymity approach and tried to learn through DF which resulted in a huge block and failure rate.

SE by design does expect people to run with the same people in coil.