So what if people sell platinum and gold plans for gil?

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Originally Posted by Magis

Oh that's right, they crash, died, and joined the other countless MMOs in the F2P graveyard. The two big ones that didn't die (EVE and WoW)? They have been surviving for the last 10 years without this kind of stuff, and have a solid player base that grew out of good gameplay and MMO design. They could afford to implement that stuff because they already had a dedicated fan base who were already invested in the game.

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WoW does have a cash shop and it's a lot worse than what we have. In WoW you can buy instant level 90 and you could buy a pet that could be sold for gold.

I think that the intended purpose was so that the people being bonded could buy a bracelet to gift to their partner (in the case of one person buying both). I think this whole hassle could be solved by making the bracelets tradable, but disabling the ability to add/put gil into the trade box -- basically you can only trade them, but not receive any gil during the trade. It would also discourage people from trying to do it, since most would be worried that once the person got the bracelet, they'd just leave and not do another trade (or 20 more trades in the case of the 20mil person).

It is absolutely none of anyone's business what anyone does during a trade as long as it does not provide real world money to an entity external to Square Enix, the game owners.

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Originally Posted by MirielleLavandre

I think that the intended purpose was so that the people being bonded could buy a bracelet to gift to their partner (in the case of one person buying both). I think this whole hassle could be solved by making the bracelets tradable, but disabling the ability to add/put gil into the trade box -- basically you can only trade them, but not receive any gil during the trade. It would also discourage people from trying to do it, since most would be worried that once the person got the bracelet, they'd just leave and not do another trade (or 20 more trades in the case of the 20mil person).

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Then the traded item becomes demimateria or allagan pieces, or the trade is done by moogle mail which doesn't have a delivery limit (I sent 5 mill from one of my accounts to the other this way once). As long as you have the agreement in your chat log then the GMs will take action if the other person doesn't fulfill their end.

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Originally Posted by Thyranne

WoW does have a cash shop and it's a lot worse than what we have. In WoW you can buy instant level 90 and you could buy a pet that could be sold for gold.

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Didn't WoW CS open in 2013?....that like 8 years after game launch....by that time they already had tons of dedicated fans who had already spent thousand hours in the game.
This game is one year old. Almost every other P2P that started double-dipping players with a CS that fast, failed miserably at it and enraged its customers (SWTOR, Aion, Tera, Rift, etc)

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Originally Posted by Aegis

Then the traded item becomes demimateria or allagan pieces, or the trade is done by moogle mail which doesn't have a delivery limit (I sent 5 mill from one of my accounts to the other this way once). As long as you have the agreement in your chat log then the GMs will take action if the other person doesn't fulfill their end.

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I didn't think the GMs would get involved in personal trades, even with a chat log. I know in FFXI they usually said that both the seller and buyer take the risk, especially if they don't know each other, and that they won't get involved. Personally, I think it would be best to just make them untradeable and bound on acquire, and have the option to buy 2 and send one to your partner via the actual store (where you pick characters to have it sent to -- just make it able to send a second bracelet to your partner since you're on the same server anyway).

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Originally Posted by Squa11_Leonhart

It is absolutely none of anyone's business what anyone does during a trade as long as it does not provide real world money to an entity external to Square Enix, the game owners.

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"It's okay as long as Square Enix gets the real money!" is not okay, when the end result is the size of a player's wallet determining their in game capabilities beyond the scope of the purchased item. SE assured us this would not be happening with the Cash Shop, and now that it is we have a problem.

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Originally Posted by Erudain

In before the excuse changes from "it's not pay to win" to "well having a penta melded ilvl110 set, can't guarantee a clear if you're bad"

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Idk if you r being sarcastic or w/e, but in all seriousness, gear does very VERY little in this game, if one cannot manage mechanics. When you make a pf you don't give a damn what other ppl are wearing, u want them to know their shit.

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Originally Posted by cookiecutter

Its better that they do this than buying the gil for via RMT. No game is free from RMT at least this way the money is back in SE's pockets and not a third party. In end if it stops or at least reducing RMT spams I'm for it. You're never going to get rid of RMT from mmo or even character selling to a lesser degree so there will always be the "pay to win".

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We can't stop people from stealing, so let's just legalize theft?

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Originally Posted by Erudain

Didn't WoW CS open in 2013?....that like 8 years after game launch....by that time they already had tons of dedicated fans who had already spent thousand hours in the game.
This game is one year old. Almost every other P2P that started double-dipping players with a CS that fast, failed miserably at it and enraged its customers (SWTOR, Aion, Tera, Rift, etc)

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It opened back in WotLK (2009 I believe) with the Lil K.T. pet and pandaren pet.

Don't get me wrong I really dislike the cash shop too.

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Originally Posted by Magis

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Already stated that the cash shop isn't around for RMT in particular. When I said every MMO is already pay to win thanks to RMT. I meant that you can use real money to buy in game currency using the third party RMT. Also pay to win is subjective since one persons idea of pay to win is different from someone else's. Also if you don't like how SE is using the cash shop you don't have to play it. Another thing is that EA and Activision aren't the only companies that utilize dlc or buying additional content. Here is a small list of companies that utilize dlc or additional content for their games: Capcom, Namco, Ubisoft, Sega, Bungi, Nintendo, Bioware, Atlas, I could keep going but I'm going to stop there. Notice the amount of Japanese companies I mentioned in that list? If you hate it that much just don't play, I don't really mind it and I like the game enough that it isn't a game breaker for me. You're probably better off finding F2P mmo to play since subscription based mmos are heading down the cash shop avenue.

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Originally Posted by Sessurea

Idk if you r being sarcastic or w/e, but in all seriousness, gear does very VERY little in this game, if one cannot manage mechanics. When you make a pf you don't give a damn what other ppl are wearing, u want them to know their shit.

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Focusing on the gear is missing the point entirely, though. Gil can be used for far more than just gear. In fact, it's absolutely irrelevant what the gil is even used for. The simple fact that gil can be used to confer such a large variety of advantages over other players, that had to spend in game time working for the gil, is the actual issue.

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Originally Posted by Thyranne

WoW does have a cash shop and it's a lot worse than what we have. In WoW you can buy instant level 90 and you could buy a pet that could be sold for gold.

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Didn't say they didn't, I said they could afford to do something like that and survived any fallout from doing so because they had 13+mil players from just general good MMO design. Heck, WoW wasn't even unscathed from implementing that (well, and a butt load of bad decisions), seeing as their sub rate has plummeted over the last 4-5 years.

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Originally Posted by cookiecutter

Already stated that the cash shop isn't around for RMT in particular. When I said every MMO is already pay to win thanks to RMT. I meant that you can use real money to buy in game currency using the third party RMT. Also pay to win is subjective since one persons idea of pay to win is different from someone else's. Also if you don't like how SE is using the cash shop you don't have to play it. Another thing is that EA and Activision aren't the only companies that utilize dlc or buying additional content. Here is a small list of companies that utilize dlc or additional content for their games: Capcom, Namco, Ubisoft, Sega, Bungi, Nintendo, Bioware, Atlas, I could keep going but I'm going to stop there. Notice the amount of Japanese companies I mentioned in that list?

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So add them to the list, I was just giving examples.

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Originally Posted by cookiecutter

If you hate it that much just don't play, I don't really mind it and I like the game enough that it isn't a game breaker for me. You're probably better off finding F2P mmo to play since subscription based mmos are heading down the cash shop avenue.

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Well, at this point the only thing keeping me subbed is my FC so I may end up doing that. The game I joined in Beta V2 (and it seems before you joined) was way different than what I am playing now. I'd rather see this game succeed and live as long as FFXI or WoW did, but it seems that won't be the case. Too bad cause I love Final Fantasy, I love the lore, and I love the aesthetic. Just a note though, if you keep saying "just don't play", soon you will turn into 1.0 or other MMOs where there isn't anyone left to say that to. I am surprised that people would rather have players jump ship than improve the game.

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Originally Posted by Magis

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I'm all for players wanting to improve the game but talk about the stuff you know the developers might actually address. The cash shop isn't something SE will get rid of so if you absolutely hate it you're better off leaving since it'll be here to stay no matter how much you complain about it. Notice the lack of GM posts to these thread even with their abundance right now? Getting rid of the cash shop isn't something they'll address. However if you want class buffs, new cul furnishing, qol stuff, and maybe some new in game ideas then they'll actually talk about that and address it.

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Originally Posted by cookiecutter

I'm all for players wanting to improve the game but talk about the stuff you know the developers might actually address. The cash shop isn't something SE will get rid of so if you absolutely hate it you're better off leaving since it'll be here to stay no matter how much you complain about it. Notice the lack of GM posts to these thread even with their abundance right now? Getting rid of the cash shop isn't something they'll address. However if you want class buffs, new cul furnishing, qol stuff, and maybe some new in game ideas then they'll actually talk about that and address it.

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Maybe not getting rid of the cash shop, but stopping this kind of content they put on it. Just look up monocle gate for EVE to see what happened the last time a MMO tried screwing players over with a cash shop. Also when do GMs ever post about current hot issues? They didn't when atma was an issue, they didn't when housing was an issue, and they won't now. Their choice in what to reply about is random at best.

Just going to leave this here. Food for thought

WOW cash shop opens 2009 has a total of 25 items to buy, not including the service items.
11 pets
9 mounts
5 helms

FF14 cash shop opens 2014 has a total of 18 items to buy, not including the service items.
3 dyes
3 suits
4 helms
4 minions
1 mount
2 costumes
"1" event -technically 2 options but giving them the benefit of the doubt and counted it as 1.

WOW shop open roughly 5 years
FF14 shop open for a few months wait till x-mas it will have more stuff on it than the WOW shop in a huge fraction of the time.

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Originally Posted by Erudain

Didn't WoW CS open in 2013?....that like 8 years after game launch....by that time they already had tons of dedicated fans who had already spent thousand hours in the game.
This game is one year old. Almost every other P2P that started double-dipping players with a CS that fast, failed miserably at it and enraged its customers (SWTOR, Aion, Tera, Rift, etc)

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Also, someone please correct me if wrong (only played a year or so when the shop was activated), but I thought blizzard had less items on the store and did not have any items that could be resold in the game. (Although same company, their D3 AH idea was a train wreck lol).

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Originally Posted by cookiecutter

However if you want class buffs, new cul furnishing, qol stuff, and maybe some new in game ideas then they'll actually talk about that and address it.

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Rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. Cash shop is a deal breaker to a great many people, especially one with tradeable items. Refusing to look at removing it could be very painful to the company.

Time was, Yoshi-P wasn't afraid to make hard choices. He made the decision to close and rebuild FFXIV from the ground up, knowing the huge risk and investment required. Now asking to remove a feature that's a couple of months old is too much?

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Originally Posted by Aegis

Rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. Cash shop is a deal breaker to a great many people, especially one with tradeable items. Refusing to look at removing it could be very painful to the company.
Time was, Yoshi-P wasn't afraid to make hard choices. He made the decision to close and rebuild FFXIV from the ground up, knowing the huge risk and investment required. Now asking to remove a feature that's a couple of months old is too much?

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I really like that phrase... gonna keep that for later.

I honestly think this isn't Yoshi-P tbh. This sounds like someone from upper management going, "shit, we are actually making money of FFXIV? How can we milk these idiots for more!". Ironically, this is kinda what doomed FFXIV 1.0 to fail. First was upper management forcing Tanaka and Co. to use the unoptimized and buggy Crystal Engine (built for hallway simulators). Then was their decision to get away from a unique MMO (which Tanaka wanted) and just take the FFXI assets. Finally was the descision to release FFXIV before WoW: Cataclysm even though the game was unfinished, crashing, unoptimized, and full of bugs which was painfully easy to see from the alpha and beta tests.

Than again, Yoshi has this huge love for WoW so it could be him copying yet another feature of WoW. Guess could be a mix of both.

Shit comes in cycles it seems and the bigwigs at SE haven't learned their lesson.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Also, someone please correct me if wrong (only played a year or so when the shop was activated), but I thought blizzard had less items on the store and did not have any items that could be resold in the game. (Although same company, their D3 AH idea was a train wreck lol).

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There was a pet (forgot its name) but they removed it recently.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Also, someone please correct me if wrong (only played a year or so when the shop was activated), but I thought blizzard had less items on the store and did not have any items that could be resold in the game. (Although same company, their D3 AH idea was a train wreck lol).

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I know there was a pet from the cash shop that could be put on the AH, the Guardian Cub. Not sure about anything else.

People got around it even before that happened, though. They would trade 60 day time card codes or 30 day gift codes for gold. There would be trust involved since it wasn't officially supported but people did it.

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Originally Posted by Magis

Maybe not getting rid of the cash shop, but stopping this kind of content they put on it. Just look up monocle gate for EVE to see what happened the last time a MMO tried screwing players over with a cash shop. Also when do GMs ever post about current hot issues? They didn't when atma was an issue, they didn't when housing was an issue, and they won't now. Their choice in what to reply about is random at best.

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I agree with you that SE has to be careful about how much they implement into the cash shop without going overboard. This patch they splurged on the cash shop but at least all the new stuff except wind up Urianger are not solely obtainable via the cash shop. We'll see how much they implement in future patches. I'm going to reserve judgment if they're taking it too far until I see what else they'll do with it. The seasonal gear can be excluded since you have to the opportunity to get this in game for free anyway as long you're playing during that time.

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Originally Posted by Vaer

I know there was a minion from the cash shop that could be put on the AH, the Guardian Cub. Not sure about anything else.

People got around it even before that happened, though. They would trade 60 day time card codes or 30 day gift codes for gold. There would be trust involved since it wasn't officially supported but people did it.

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YES that was its name! But they removed it from the store recently. About the 60 days this was extremly common: "buy gametime with credit card, receive the code, sell it for gold then cancel the purchase (call your credit card)", this way you stay with the gold and the money.

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Originally Posted by cookiecutter

I agree with you that SE has to be careful about how much they implement into the cash shop without going overboard. This patch they splurged on the cash shop. We'll see how much they implement in future patches. I'm going to reserve judgment if their taking it too far until I see what else they'll do with it. The seasonal gear can be excluded since you have to the opportunity to get this in game for free anyway as long you're playing during that time.

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They should have only added seasonal items (that were previously available). It'd have been perfect to me.

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Originally Posted by Magis

I really like that phrase... gonna keep that for later.

I honestly think this isn't Yoshi-P tbh. This sounds like someone from upper management going, "shit, we are actually making money of FFXIV? How can we milk these idiots for more!". Ironically, this is kinda what doomed FFXIV 1.0 to fail. First was upper management forcing Tanaka and Co. to use the unoptimized and buggy Crystal Engine (built for hallway simulators). Then was their decision to get away from a unique MMO (which Tanaka wanted) and just take the FFXI assets. Finally was the descision to release FFXIV before WoW: Cataclysm even though the game was unfinished, crashing, unoptimized, and full of bugs which was painfully easy to see from the alpha and beta tests.

Than again, Yoshi has this huge love for WoW so it could be him copying yet another feature of WoW. Guess could be a mix of both.

Shit comes in cycles it seems and the bigwigs at SE haven't learned their lesson.

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I'm afraid I can't take credit: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/rearra...on_the_Titanic

And yeah, for me Version 1 was a game of huge potential absolutely ruined by terrible execution and a release that was a year early at least. I wish they hadn't worried so much about Cataclysm, used a decent engine like we have now, but otherwise let all those creative ideas flow. It was very much in the style of the earlier MMOs.

This version is a game with huge polish and great production values that is content to follow well-worn tracks of the genre. There is nothing innovative here at all :s.

What if they just limit a persons account to one bracelet? That would put a stop on the market. If your partner cant pay for their own bracelet you could arrange to send them some money via other means like PayPal etc.

You people wanted this function in game. "Q.Q i want my pixels to get married, Q.Q". Well you finally got what you wanted, and a few people found a way to exploit it. So you cried for this, go get married, w/e the cost... after all time that could have been spent on real content was thrown out to make this bull crap stuff. If you don't care about it keep trucking as if nothing happened at all. I don't actually see an issue here for people to be crying as if the world is ending.

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Originally Posted by SongJoohee

15m-20m on Ragnarok (Legacy server) last night for Platinum, enough to buy a Medium sized house for a bit of context.

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Are people actually buying them at those prices? :O

If so I might start selling them too. :P

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Originally Posted by RedAntares

Are people actually buying them at those prices? :O

If so I might start selling them too. :P

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A few, the common price atm For Gold Plan seems to be 3.5mil, but that is the min bid.
One person could send the seller a tell offering 4mil.
Another person sends one 4.5mil

And it just increases like that.

Platinum however is a bit higher.
The one that I saw selling last night for 30mil was a Current Offer of 30mil (not min offer)

Also, Dyed gear seems to be going for 450k->500k each on Hyperion

http://puu.sh/dp5o0/b9c69c0968.png

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Originally Posted by Vejjiegirl

A few, the common price atm seems to be 3.5mil, but that is the min bid.
One person could send the seller a tell offering 4mil.
Another person sends one 4.5mil

And it just increases like that.
The one that I saw selling last night for 30mil was a Current Offer of 30mil.

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Oh they auction it off? that's kinda funny. 3.5 mil is pretty easily obtained on my server.

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Originally Posted by cookiecutter

Oh they auction it off? that's kinda funny. 3.5 mil is pretty easily obtained on my server.

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Yeah, some are Auctioned, while others are sold. The smart ones do the auction.
3.5 is for the gold plan (10 dollar plan)
The platinum plans are higher than that.

Like I said on another thread, people have been selling time cards for gil for a while now. It's a personal transaction between players in game and not the normal suspicious accounts that S/E tracks, so even if that's against their RMT policies, they won't be able to do anything about it.

Just want to drop this here

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So what if people sell platinum and gold plans for gil?

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Cause you know everyone just loved getting those gil tells, but now gotta see it littered in PF with bunch of entries people selling this stuff for millions of gil when they paid $10/$20 for it.

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Originally Posted by Lexia

Just want to drop this here

Cause you know everyone just loved getting those gil tells, but now gotta see it littered in PF with bunch of entries people selling this stuff for millions of gil when they paid $10/$20 for it.

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I'd rather it be in pf than whispers. I don't have to have pf open all the time. Also 90% of the pf is irrelevant to me anyway so its pretty much the same as usual.

This is NOT play 2 win. Housing, weddings, dyes, minions this is all stuff that does NOTHING to benefit you in the game. Exception of housing being able to break your choco's level limit but this has been addressed if i remember correctly. Its all purely for show Its a Stretch to call being able to sell the bracelets for gil "P2W." If they buy these bracelets to make 20 mil gil to buy a clear for RmauhEx or turn 9. the FC company who is selling these clears is JUST as guilty for supporting this P2W option. Or that guy who buys all these super melded gear will still suck because they wont know how to play the role properly. Its fellow players fault for being 2 lazy to take a little bit of time to level up a gathering or crafting job & make some gil

This all comes back on the player base. "Rmt" will exist no matter what SE or any mmo company tries to do, its a fact that people are lazy and chose to play the game the wrong way. Just Let it go. Play the game the way you want to play it

Side note: SE is partially guilty for bit of poor planning on this. They could have easily avoided all this ranting by making one person buy the package ( for 2 people) and upon checkout provide the other persons name that they are planning to marry. Then Se delivers the items to both people.

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Originally Posted by StephieLynn

This is NOT play 2 win. Housing, weddings, dyes, minions this is all stuff that does NOTHING to benefit you in the game.

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Wut...

Pay to win deals with real money rather than in game money. People paying with gil to get a run is not the same as people paying real money to get that win. My god the mental gymnastics some of you are doing.

Housing will when they add the FC airships no? also the housing "forges" (I guess you can call them for lack of a better term) that let help you level a low level craft slightly faster..I think those benefit you a little bit in game..

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Originally Posted by Vejjiegirl

A few, the common price atm For Gold Plan seems to be 3.5mil, but that is the min bid.
One person could send the seller a tell offering 4mil.
Another person sends one 4.5mil

And it just increases like that.

Platinum however is a bit higher.
The one that I saw selling last night for 30mil was a Current Offer of 30mil (not min offer)

Also, Dyed gear seems to be going for 450k->500k each on Hyperion

http://puu.sh/dp5o0/b9c69c0968.png

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Darn, that's not bad, might as well try to sell one tonight to see if I get lucky. :P

There is something that doesn't compute here. I am very much against RMT, clear sellers, and pay-to-win. But how many freaking gold and platinum bands are people going to buy anyways? Sure this will distort the distribution of existing gil, but is there a good reason why people would keep buying gold and platinum bands after they already bought the first one? The shifting of gil will be very limited, given people can all go get their own gold and platinum plans from the mog-station. And the people that got that kind of gil to throw around is limited too. It would ssem that thse platinum and gold bands are a fad right now, running up a bubble, before you know all those people that paid real money for this stuff will be undercutting each other on the PF.

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Originally Posted by NyarukoW

There is something that doesn't compute here. I am very much against RMT, clear sellers, and pay-to-win. But how many freaking gold and platinum bands are people going to buy anyways? Sure this will distort the distribution of existing gil, but is there a good reason why people would keep buying gold and platinum bands after they already bought the first one? The shifting of gil will be very limited, given people can all go get their own gold and platinum plans from the mog-station. And the people that got that kind of gil to throw around is limited too. It would ssem that thse platinum and gold bands are a fad right now, running up a bubble, before you know all those people that paid real money for this stuff will be undercutting each other on the PF.

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Shhhh let them buy more. It's funny. I have been watching since yesterday how they went from 20 mil to less than 10 now. With luck i get a cheap wedding thanks to all the people speculating.