Coil 5 changes needed

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

rather than DF, I'd like to seen echo on T6-9. blah blah blah not needed but easier to catch up and then go tackle T10-13



oh sure both. But if something has to come first, I'd like echo before DF ^_^

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Then dun even think about trying final coil if u really need echo for 2nd coil

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Originally Posted by Clavaat

It isn't in the DF? Why am I seeing it in the DF? Or do you have to clear T5 first? If that's the case, T7 and T9 in particular are much more demanding skill-wise than T5. You have about 2-3 things you need to watch for at all times for each turn. T5 tends to ease you into the multi-part mechanics. 1st set of DB nothing else is going on, just look for the green mark, out/in. 2nd set, now you gotta watch snakes and for mark, but it's not that bad. T6-9 you have to watch for buffs, debuffs, and a lot more marks at any given time.

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It currently requires a full pre-made group before unlocks in DF even after clearing T5. A pre-made group that is not formed using DF but outside it like PF or statics for example. You can click on it to start a run through DF once made a full group outside of DF but you cannot run it via DF through DF finding people to run it with. That pre-made restriction needs to go away on old content which second coil is now that final coil is out.

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Originally Posted by Nutz

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you can easily circumvent this by coordinating with your FC. We regularly schedule nights for old content for people to do on alt jobs or for new players. "T4-5 this saturday" and whoever needs it, we get them there clear. People (not talking to you here) need to understand that the DF/ Clear purchasing is not the only way to go. If you are not in an FC that actively pursues increasing the overall skill of its members and tries to get most members on/at the same point in the game, you are in the wrong FC.

Some of the people in my FC are really new/far behind. Some of them are on T12. There are most in the middle like me on T7-8. We all contribute equally to the overall progression of our FC because thats what being in an FC is all about... you help each other progress. If this isn't a thing for you, then go into another FC where they actually actively try to bring up players.

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Originally Posted by Empressia

Then dun even think about trying final coil if u really need echo for 2nd coil

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have you even read what I wrote ?

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not needed but easier to catch up and then go tackle T10-13

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odds are my group started to work on T6 2 days ago, 2 hours on it so far. echo would just push us (dps is slow to start on middle bulb) enough to go through. We have the hang of every mechanic of P1 and P2, our only problem comes from slow dps on middle bulb (lag on free weekend mostly, we still have to re enter).

Echo is not needed and will never be needed. It just helps.

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Originally Posted by Vhailor

In regards to the OP's suggestion specifically - moving to 16 people would be an option to minimize the importance of everyone doing their job, but I'd rather see a move to party sizes of 4-6. That's a lot easier for people with actual lives to set up schedules around.

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2 things.

first, you make it seam like anyone that can routinely do 8man content in a static doesn't have a life. I have a full time job that often requires extra hours after close of business and I already work 40hrs a week. I have a 7 year old, and I am married. I have an active social life. I get to enjoy this game as much as anybody else. You need to adjust your expectations. I know that I will never be able to form a static at present. My solution is to wait for coil content lockout to be removed before I try it. Sure, ill get to start on FCOB 3 months after all the 'no lifers' get to, but who cares? Ill get it done eventually.

second... 16 people in Turn 5 is such a bad idea I can't believe people are actually entertaining it as a solution. If you even think it would be a good idea... idk... too much lol

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Originally Posted by Lord_Zlatan

second... 16 people in Turn 5 is such a bad idea I can't believe people are actually entertaining it as a solution. If you even think it would be a good idea... idk... too much lol

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actually it could end up rolling fine... provided you don't have more than 3 melees after that twisters will become an horrendous mess

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

actually it could end up rolling fine... provided you don't have more than 3 melees after that twisters will become an horrendous mess

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having 16 people would increase the odds of having melee's in the PT (which isn't a problem for people who know what to do already). It would be a horrendous mess to being with. THe only way it would work is if you pushed twin so fast she died before that phase change even happened.

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Originally Posted by Lord_Zlatan

having 16 people would increase the odds of having melee's in the PT (which isn't a problem for people who know what to do already). It would be a horrendous mess to being with. THe only way it would work is if you pushed twin so fast she died before that phase change even happened.

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nah, if everyone is disciplined (so DF friendly, I give you that) and walk in straight line for twisters, everyone lives. Sad thing is, people won't have that much discipline (you just have to watch the mess in ST to know that) and it will become more difficult than the original fight if you can't burn phases

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

nah, if everyone is disciplined (so DF friendly, I give you that) and walk in straight line for twisters, everyone lives. Sad thing is, people won't have that much discipline (you just have to watch the mess in ST to know that) and it will become more difficult than the original fight if you can't burn phases

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that last line there is why I think it is a terrible idea. Just get into an FC that helps people progress and 99% of these "I can't clear anything because no one helps me" threads would go away.

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Originally Posted by Snugglebutt

It currently requires a full pre-made group before unlocks in DF even after clearing T5. A pre-made group that is not formed using DF but outside it like PF or statics for example. You can click on it to start a run through DF once made a full group outside of DF but you cannot run it via DF through DF finding people to run it with. That pre-made restriction needs to go away on old content which second coil is now that final coil is out.

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Ok, I'm in a static, and cleared T5 before this, so I honestly don't know what it looks like/what the rules are. Regardless, in addition to what I said before, the kind of coordination necessary to clear those turns is not suited for DF. Even PF is a bit of a stretch. It can be a lot of hard work, even after 2.4. Making a static is difficult, but what you could do is start an LS with players who join a PF that meet your criteria (nice but skilled, determined but needs practice, etc). Putting it in regular DF wouldn't really accomplish much, simply because of the coordination and skill necessary.

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Originally Posted by Clavaat

Ok, I'm in a static, and cleared T5 before this, so I honestly don't know what it looks like/what the rules are. Regardless, in addition to what I said before, the kind of coordination necessary to clear those turns is not suited for DF. Even PF is a bit of a stretch. It can be a lot of hard work, even after 2.4. Making a static is difficult, but what you could do is start an LS with players who join a PF that meet your criteria (nice but skilled, determined but needs practice, etc). Putting it in regular DF wouldn't really accomplish much, simply because of the coordination and skill necessary.

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Whether or not someone can clear it using DF is not the point but even so second coil I believe can be done with DF just like EX's and T5 can be. I have gone into great detail about the fallacies surrounding PF groups of late and the requirements they put on the listings so I won't do it again however this assumption that DF groups cannot clear content is also something that needs to be stopped as it is not true. It is harder sure because your opening up to a lot more people to join your group so finding people who can do it is like drop in pond from PF to drop in a lake in DF...but to say a DF group cannot clear content like 2nd coil is wrong. The same thing was once said about EX trials, ST/CT and the original coils 1-5 when they got added and opened up to DF but all of these often get cleared using DF and not just PF.

Watching a video on it multiple times or reading guides too multiple times is enough for most people to become skilled enough to clear it and additional information like deciding who's going to kite or handle x, y or z is easily decided at the start of the run. Personally I would use the DF version to train and to teach others, help others plus while doing it you will run it with vastly more people than a PF group will ever have, people who you can gauge their ability to progress and whether or not get along with them. Not forgetting you will also have people who were no longer part of statics who might also be using DF despite having cleared the content prior. People you come across during DF runs could then become part of a linkshell or friendslist which can go to and make statics or help with PF''s too. There is no major downside to opening up 2nd coil to DF, it is just an optional and additional way for people to run content on top of PF and statics.

So the main point is people would like to use it as another option of which to enter and take part in content, whether to just learn or to complete content and there is no reason why it should remain locked with a pre-made requirement anymore now that is old content. Those who want to continue using PF's or Statics would not be stopped from doing so just because another method opened up to those who do not want to use PF or have enough time or friends to make a static. Noone should be against removing that requirement at this stage, noone has a good enough reason not to allow for DF to be used to gather and form parties for 2nd coil anymore now that final coil is out because it does not stop anyone using the previous methods for doing it if that is their preference.

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Originally Posted by Snugglebutt

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I think the problem here is, PF you have the option of letting everyone know, "Hey this is a learning party, please be patient," or "This is a clear party, know what you're doing." Putting raid content in the DF can cause issues with people who have different goals, as has been seen before in Story Roulette and such. I'm not saying it should never be in regular DF, but for the time being, I think it makes sense to stay where it is at.

Honestly, I pretty much agree with you, but I think the big picture here is to know that people play with different goals in mind, and PF can differentiate that, while DF cannot, and I think that's a big reason why they haven't completely opened it up.

Downing t5 is not something that everyone is entitled to.

It's a indication of what YOU as a player are capable of doing. If you cannot down t5 do not loathe about not being able to down it and demand change. Take matters into your own hands.

My 3 man premade was in the same boat you were until the past Saturday. We said enough was enough and made use of the server my SCH had and made a mumble (you can do raidcall as an alternative as it is far easier to set up) Set up a PF and made it a requirement to join our mumble and made sure to note it was a LEARNING PARTY (it could be downed if we learned) If you come up with the argument that it takes to long to do this through PF then you do not have the patience to learn the new turns and you do not deserve to down it. If you can't muster the patience required to gather a party then how do you honestly expect to get to new content? It's baffling to me that people honestly want this END GAME CONTENT to be dumbed down.

Take the time needed to get a group together (however long that may be) make sure that you have some sort of voice comm (if you're on ps4 you can still join via applications on the app stores) and take the time required to down this.

It was not designed to be a cakewalk and it never will be. I understand the frustrations with players who refuse to listen, but that can be dealt with my steps.

Who knows you might even make a new friend and begin to create a static.

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Originally Posted by Edli

For some reason you think the difficulty of the fight and gathering the players are not related. The more difficult the fight the harder it's going to be to gather players that can beat it.

This is a multiplayer game and in a multiplayer game is the performance of the whole team that matters and not just your performance and no it is not horrible, horrible design. It's exactly how a multiplayer game should work.

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Originally Posted by Ellatrix

Let me recommend single player games for you then, so you don't have to deal with teammates.

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This has nothing to do with multiplayer games vs. single player titles. This has everything to do with the margin of error afforded - the margin of error that others can pick up on their own.

I'll put it this way; if I'm playing a team-based FPS and one of my teammates sucks, it doesn't mean that I lose every round. If I'm in an end-game alliance in FFXI and a person or two is derpish, we can still pull off victory in the vast majority of cases. FFXIV is the only multiplayer title that I've ever played featuring such all-or-nothing content - either everyone is decent-to-good, or everyone loses. That is, I repeat, horrible, horrible game design.

In fact, in direct response to you, Edli - in the current system, the team's performance doesn't matter in the slightest. What matters in most groups is solely the performance of the one person who makes the first mistake. The team overall can be playing at a very high level, but one person who slips up generally causes a wipe anyway.

Anyway, TL;DR - assuming that XIV's uniquely harsh end-game design is the only way (or even a good way) to implement team-based gameplay is absolutely laughable. Your comments were not remotely constructive, nor were they particularly valid from a rational standpoint.

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Originally Posted by Lord_Zlatan

2 things.

first, you make it seam like anyone that can routinely do 8man content in a static doesn't have a life. I have a full time job that often requires extra hours after close of business and I already work 40hrs a week. I have a 7 year old, and I am married. I have an active social life. I get to enjoy this game as much as anybody else. You need to adjust your expectations. I know that I will never be able to form a static at present. My solution is to wait for coil content lockout to be removed before I try it. Sure, ill get to start on FCOB 3 months after all the 'no lifers' get to, but who cares? Ill get it done eventually.

second... 16 people in Turn 5 is such a bad idea I can't believe people are actually entertaining it as a solution. If you even think it would be a good idea... idk... too much lol

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It's not an issue of three months; we're talking about T5 being a barrier still for many. My underlying point is that, if you lack a static party, end-game content is rather unpleasant at the moment for most people. This is largely due to the fact that PF and DF are unreliable, require lots of time, frequently result in hostilities or drama between party members, and certainly make for a stressful experience rather than a fun one (for me, at least; and I suspect this holds true for most others using them). That's not to say doing end-game content without a static is impossible - it's not. It's to say that doing is a fairly miserable experience, with sources of difficulty and stress coming more from finding a working party than the content itself. That's a problem, in my eyes - a serious one.

Also, considering you are not a member of a static by your own admission, I think you reinforced my point that most people who can routinely do 8-man content in statics don't have lives. Just saying.

Finally, my comment about 16-player sizes would clearly necessitate a redesign of fight mechanics to account for the extra bodies. I didn't mention this explicitly because it would become completely obvious were this course ever pursued.

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Originally Posted by Clavaat

I think the problem here is, PF you have the option of letting everyone know, "Hey this is a learning party, please be patient," or "This is a clear party, know what you're doing." Putting raid content in the DF can cause issues with people who have different goals, as has been seen before in Story Roulette and such. I'm not saying it should never be in regular DF, but for the time being, I think it makes sense to stay where it is at.

Honestly, I pretty much agree with you, but I think the big picture here is to know that people play with different goals in mind, and PF can differentiate that, while DF cannot, and I think that's a big reason why they haven't completely opened it up.

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But if going by that principle in your first paragraph then surely you would be advocating Ex primal's, coils 1-5 and ST should remain out of and be removed from DF or have restrictions put back in place so can only run with full pre-mades. As on every single one you do not know if people are training to complete it or have completed it but does not stop people from completing it even without knowing that quite often.

To be honest if I was looking to make a static I would use DF runs to find people I felt was competent enough to be part of it, your essentially putting more people to the test at once, seeing their capabilities and seeing if get along with them rather than trying out individuals one by one in a PF so in that sense opening up DF without restrictions on 2nd coil would benefit statics bit like how talent scouts go around watching matches to see if anyone they spot is good within a large group of many who might not be so.

As mentioned even with the issue of not knowing whether people using it to train or going for pure kill/clear the same could be said for every single dungeon, raid or trial currently in DF plus the ones I listed above. Sure you don't know if people are using it to get better or if they are good enough to clear it but the same applies for people in PF when first try them out in your group, a item link or achievement etc are not good indicators of a persons ability much like people claiming to know the basics but still have to prove competence in themselves...including people who only cleared because was carried or paid for clear are all still present in PF so are not good indications of their actual ability.

Remember for the most part people who train are training to complete it, their end goal is the same as others in that they do want to down it so it will end in clear if everyone is good enough, but DF is not ideal for farming as once it ends the (non-premade) party disbands so you would still use PF for farming and DF for training to clear or for clearing itself if trained enough...as such there is only one goal regardless of if you want to train or to clear, both will be going for the kill so both groups will be trying to achieve the same thing.

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Originally Posted by Vhailor

Also, considering you are not a member of a static by your own admission, I think you reinforced my point that most people who can routinely do 8-man content in statics don't have lives. Just saying.

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Do you ever have a Poker Night? Board Game Night? Sports Practice Night? Why not a Raid Night? It's not unreasonable at all to think that people can play on somewhat of a schedule.

And anyway, this isn't bad design, no matter how much you try to say that it is. There is content out there that gets easier and easier, or is just meant for the general public. Should there be more options for endgame? Sure, why not. But it really isn't that hard anymore, with the amount of Echo and overgear making DPS checks and even most high damage abilities irrelevant, there is really not much to the fight anymore compared to others. Most of the mechanics require minimal movement if you set up properly. If you are having a miserable experience, play the social game. Make friends, keep people around in LS/FC who were nice/helpful.

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Originally Posted by Snugglebutt

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I said I don't think it should never be part of the regular DF, but it is still too difficult and/or controversial to be a part of it right now. I'm really confused as to what you mean when you say you use DF to find people. What if you find someone you like, and they aren't on your server? You are immediately slowing down your progress into forming a static simply because you could go many runs without ever seeing anyone on your server. You can use PF for the exact same purpose as what you are saying, but without the server limitation. The beauty of PF is that you set the requirements. If they join, and don't meet them, you let them go.

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Originally Posted by Pr0c3ss0r

Wait you see T6-7 hehe..

Let be serious, T6-7 in PF is only good to spiridbound your gear... Because on first wipe on the actual boss, someone will rage and quit.

Work as intended. (Seriously DEV, Remove the trash, or put a Shortcut, if player want to spiritbound they can...)

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SPirit bonding is much faster in the new expert dungeons anyways, by a lot.

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Originally Posted by Clavaat

I said I don't think it should never be part of the regular DF, but it is still too difficult and/or controversial to be a part of it right now. I'm really confused as to what you mean when you say you use DF to find people. What if you find someone you like, and they aren't on your server? You are immediately slowing down your progress into forming a static simply because you could go many runs without ever seeing anyone on your server. You can use PF for the exact same purpose as what you are saying, but without the server limitation. The beauty of PF is that you set the requirements. If they join, and don't meet them, you let them go.

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It's easy enough to ask someone who looks good what server they are on and if willing to switch servers in some cases if come across someone really good and they can always say no or inform you they on different server, takes a few seconds to find out.

As for being difficult and controversial right now, its no more difficult than when people first tried to do ST or coils 1-5 in DF in that it was a new set of bosses with new sets of mechanics to learn but people still managed to clear it doing so and as such I do not think a person claiming it is hard for them is adequate an excuse to prevent others from trying to do it. With regards to controversy...the only controversy is people from statics for some odd reason or those blinded by their own ego who do not want others to try a different approach to themselves on old content they have probably already passed.

It does no-one any harm at all to open it up to DF with the restriction removed now that final coil is out, their egos can remain intact knowing they are on their endgame content final coil turns with PF or statics while those on 2nd coil are trying to get passed old content via DF. If people want to try it using DF they may or may not clear it but they would at least have a new way of finding out, those who prefer the old way are not stopped from continuing to use PF and statics.

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Originally Posted by Snugglebutt

It's easy enough to ask someone who looks good what server they are on and if willing to switch servers in some cases if come across someone really good and they can always say no or inform you they on different server, takes a few seconds to find out.

As for being difficult and controversial right now, its no more difficult than when people first tried to do ST or coils 1-5 in DF in that it was a new set of bosses with new sets of mechanics to learn but people still managed to clear it doing so and as such I do not think a person claiming it is hard for them is adequate an excuse to prevent others from trying to do it.

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I'll agree to disagree. On pretty much all of that. Like I said, I generally agree with you on opening it up, however I think you're underestimating this a bit. Best of luck.

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Originally Posted by Clavaat

I'll agree to disagree. On pretty much all of that. Like I said, I generally agree with you on opening it up, however I think you're underestimating this a bit. Best of luck.

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Fair enough I will agree to disagree but I will just add one thing and that is it just seems to me that your against the idea of opening it up now as opposed to later out of spite or ego in the sense just because you do not think they can do it you do not want to give them the opportunity or chance to even try to prove that they can indeed do so despite your disbelief. It could be that it was not your intention to come across that way...but you are coming across that way to me.

Opening it up now after final coil came out would do nothing to stop you doing it the way you currently do, it would just give others the opportunity to do it a different way on old content in an effort to potentially catch up just like SE has done with a lot of older raid content I mentioned above. I kind of take issue with this mentality of just because you think others cannot do something differently than how you do it, that it should mean they are not allowed to try or even not allowed to try until you decide they might succeed...if everyone in the world thought that way we would still be living in caves bashing each other over the head with rocks and grunting to communicate. We advanced because people did what other people previously thought was not possible.

SE should open it up (2nd coil which is old content now that final coil is out) and let people try doing through DF without full group restriction, yes they may fail but they might also succeed and will not know until they try. I also take issue with SE not doing so with patch 2.4 in the sense they are doing the same thing for potentially the same bad reasoning as yourself. It is one thing to keep a restriction on new content because want to preserve the egos of those who claim to be hardcore but it is another to keep that restriction on old content after new content has been made available for the hardcore to do (their egos intact) just because they do not think people 'can' do it. Fact is will not know if they can unless allow them the chance to try.

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Originally Posted by Snugglebutt

Fair enough I will agree to disagree but I will just add one thing and that is it just seems to me that your against the idea of opening it up now as opposed to later out of spite or ego in the sense just because you do not think they can do it you do not want to give them the opportunity or chance to even try to prove that they can indeed do so despite your disbelief. It could be that it was not your intention to come across that way...but you are coming across that way to me.

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Not my intention. I think the way you prove that you can do it is by practicing with people you know well, that's all. The fights themselves have mechanics that are more unforgiving and difficult to understand fully, especially given that timing of bosses' abilities are very important. I'm not a pro by any stretch of the imagination, but the entirety of T6-9 is much more complex to T5 imo. (ok, maybe not T8 so much, but still)

in general response to the comments about one person causing a wipe...

This is a statement that people like to drop into their arguments to reinforce that putting a party of people together falls apart after one wipe... So i guess no one has ever recovered from botched mechanics or positioning... I guess no one has recovered from a tank and healer dying in T6, leaving a summoner to res, a whm to heal, while the PLD goes invincible. These things never happen. Everything always follows the same exact script or no one clears anything. What?

Turn 5 would be one of the cases where "less is more"
Fewer people would mean Fireballs and Conflags being more predictable, fewer targets for Divebombs, less chance of someone setting off a Twister, and less variance on who gets targeted for Liquid and Hatch
Enemy health and damage output would need to be adjusted down a little to make up for half party size

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Originally Posted by NolLacnala

Turn 5 would be one of the cases where "less is more"
Fewer people would mean Fireballs and Conflags being more predictable, fewer targets for Divebombs, less chance of someone setting off a Twister, and less variance on who gets targeted for Liquid and Hatch
Enemy health and damage output would need to be adjusted down a little to make up for half party size

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It's because it's an 8man raid that makes it ridiculously easy to recover from almost anything even if half the party dies as there is no extra penalty for dying. 4man raid, tank or healer dies? Game over 99% of the time.

We implement Coil (StoryMode):

The basic gist of it is:

• A party ranging from 4-8 go though the Coil all, 13 turns, but nerfed.
• Once you clear turn on Easy Difficulty, you cannot go back to that difficulty. Meaning that you have to repeat Coil on its current difficulty
• T5, 9 and 13 will have less phases, like how the Primals have less phases on storymode than hardmode, and less phases in HM than Extreme
• You do not get Gear from the easy version. You have to do Coil normal mode for it. You may have a chance of getting mats like the ADS frame though.
• The only achievements you get are from mapping the turns and clearing subplot. You will not get achievements for clearing the nerfed turns
• A slight change, Turn 13 will be placed in the trial tab for both modes (But will not be added to roulettes unless they are for raids). This is more because I see T13 as more of a trial in terms of presentation (start directly at the boss arena, primal battle. etc). Same goes for turn 12.
• Turn 13 and maybe 12 May or may not be the exception to the nerfs.
• Once you beat Coil on Normal difficulty you have the option to go back to Easy mode, but you still will not get gear or achievements for beating them (harder difficulties still have to be unlocked)
• To add incentive for doing NM coil you will get a chance at new mounts. As well as random chance at Higher than usual iLevel gear

That way, those that are in it for the lore and the story can actualy find out what happens while those that are raiding still have to do normal difficulty for their e-peen and gear what do you think?

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Originally Posted by Morningstar1337

Stuff

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No....If we keep making the game easier it will just get harder and harder to find decent enough players to even beat Ex primals. Just making it easy so people can see the story does have negative effects on the game. All those people who pushed and did eventually beat it got better at the game. They learned their class or improved their damage or whatever it may be. The moment you give people a super easy way to consume the content is the moment you stop giving people incentives to improve. It's not just as simple as letting some people see the story. It's actively dumbing down the game as a whole and decreasing the skill of the population as a whole. There are at least a dozen people in my FC alone that would never have beaten T5 and beyond and wouldn't be where they are today if your story mode existed. They normally aren't those kinds of players that want to tackle harder content, but eventually they were convinced to do so by the story and gear. Story mode literally would have had a negative effect on my FC.

Also, if such a thing did exist it shouldn't give you anything at all but the cutscenes. No achievements even for mapping. No loot. No titles. No anything.

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

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Fair enough. I think the problem is longevity. Is XIV lasts as long as XI did then odds are that people who will want to do coil will in an extreme minoty who will have to face longer (longer that DPS in 2.4's launch) queues. Om the other hand people are already so burned by Hunts, Housing and general being the Final Fantasy Fanbase that I think the playerbase here is as polarized as Democrats and Republicans (or in a closer analogy, SJWs and GamerGate)

Then again This begs the question on whether or not Coil Shoudn't be in the DF at all.

That reminds me, did SE actualy say something about implimenting a Stroy mode for Coil or is what we have now it?

did coil in duty finder in DF a few days ago. consistently got to twister phase, despite having no casters.

it is doable in DF, but it does require a degree of luck in getting people who have experience in the df random roll.

Are english servers that bad? DF T5 cople time, with more clears than fails, on JP servers

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Originally Posted by Megumino2

Are english servers that bad? DF T5 cople time, with more clears than fails, on JP servers

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It's impressive how bad this region is.

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Originally Posted by Megumino2

Are english servers that bad? DF T5 cople time, with more clears than fails, on JP servers

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NA/EU servers use DF for practice, when JP servers use it for clear with experienced people. They kinda reverse the use of PF/DF

If you think T5 needs to be nerfed so you can do 2nd coil pretty much you won't stand a chance at any of those fights. Would need T9 nerfed because there is far more ways to wipe in T9 then in T5. Also T9 wipes the whole party while T5 1 person will die if they fail dive bombs or twisters.

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

No....If we keep making the game easier it will just get harder and harder to find decent enough players to even beat Ex primals. Just making it easy so people can see the story does have negative effects on the game. All those people who pushed and did eventually beat it got better at the game. They learned their class or improved their damage or whatever it may be.

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Or they paid 1,000,000 gil to a run seller, which in pug groups, is actually more common than honest clears now.

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Originally Posted by Megumino2

Are english servers that bad? DF T5 cople time, with more clears than fails, on JP servers

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I wouldn't necessarily say it's that bad, it's just that perfected one-shots are demanded on the first try.

Me, I don't want T5 made any easier. I just want to do T5 so I can join my friends who are on T6-7. But, noooooooooo, that one dude had to flake out. *sobs*

I really don't get this... unlike later Turns T5 has at most two mechanics overlapping that you have to deal with at the same time.

Phase 1: adds
Phase 2: conflags, fireballs
Phase 3: divebombs, snakes
Phase 4: twister, dreadknights
Phase 5: liquid hell, hatch

Of all these really only Phase 2 and 4 have both things going at once. Phase 3 snakes happen between divebomb sets (and can be ignored during the second). Phase 5 hatch is eaten by the tanks and utterly negated. Contrast this to T7 Phase 4...

Voice, Shriek, Petrifaction, massive AoEs, Renaulds, venomus tail

ALL AT ONCE. T5 is the equivalent of Brayflox during leveling. It is where the training wheels come off and you need to actually play, instead of bumbling through or overpowering things.

If you can't handle T5 with Echo and i110 gear then you have ZERO reason to be in Second Coil.

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Originally Posted by Numenor1379

If you can't handle T5 with Echo and i110 gear then you have ZERO reason to be in Second Coil.

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It's not that I can't, it's just that without a static, there's always one person who doesn't get the mechanics.

I thought you can 4 men T5 now lol, why not carry the baddies :p

Edit: wow you are from tonberry, why don't add me and i will get some people to do t5 with you

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Originally Posted by Thistledown

It's not that I can't, it's just that without a static, there's always one person who doesn't get the mechanics.

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As things are if a person doesn't get the mechanics it is extremely possible to carry their cold corpse to victory.

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Originally Posted by SDaemon

As things are if a person doesn't get the mechanics it is extremely possible to carry their cold corpse to victory.

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Too bad that does not happen very often in T5, at all. So easy, you say? You can 4 man it, you say?

BLAH