Allow us to buy Sands of Time with Soldiery

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Originally Posted by Gilraen

Yeah, no... soldiery can be gained from near every high level thing now. Sands and Oils are for upgrading the highest level gear we have, it makes sense to have them drop from the highest level content we have. Soldiery is just a gateway to get the highest level stuff and should stay that way.

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What are you, stuck in 2.2 or something? Sands come from the EASIEST content in the game. Hunts are a total zerg fest with 0 skill required.

Ya know, this is the kind of thing where the response should almost be "why the hell not?" It'd be a retarded expenditure of soldiery anyway unless you only play 1 job.

What skill?

Nope /10chars

So wait. The same people that were mad when people were screaming to take sands/oils away from hunts now are mad someone suggested to add another option?

Where's those WTF gifs when you need them?

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Originally Posted by Chocolate_Rain

So wait. The same people that were mad when people were screaming to take sands/oils away from hunts now are mad someone suggested to add another option?

Where's those WTF gifs when you need them?

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Why? If someone thinks those should only come from coil then being mad at another option suggested when they think 2 is too many makes perfect sense. You may not agree with the opinion but there's certainly no WTF'ness about it.

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Originally Posted by Wolf_Gang

Maybe like 375 Sol for one? Got nothing else to use it for really. Hate having to be forced to spend it because of cap.

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I agree with this ideas, but 375 is way too low and easy. Maybe 2 week cap of soldiery would be fine. Like 900 Soldiery for one Sand.

If anything I say 2000 soldiery for just one.

Cause that would probably be the same amount of time if you spammed a dungeon.

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Originally Posted by Gilraen

Yeah, no... soldiery can be gained from near every high level thing now. Sands and Oils are for upgrading the highest level gear we have, it makes sense to have them drop from the highest level content we have.

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No seriously, I'm laughing my ass off.

How is teleporting en mass to one area and clicking the fastest skill you have repeatedly for 30 seconds worthy of comparison to 'the highest level content' that we have?

Christ, the idiocy of hunts really has eroded brain cells, hasn't it? You mock someone for wanting an easy ride to max ilvl from dungeon instances, but consider the farce that is hunts a worthy source instead?

This game really is f*cked.

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Originally Posted by Amberyl

No seriously, I'm laughing my ass off.

How is teleporting en mass to one area and clicking the fastest skill you have repeatedly for 30 seconds worthy of comparison to 'the highest level content' that we have?

Christ, the idiocy of hunts really has eroded brain cells, hasn't it? You mock someone for wanting an easy ride to max ilvl from dungeon instances, but consider the farce that is hunts a worthy source instead?

This game really is f*cked.

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Oils/Sands coming from Soldiery is stupid.
Oils/Sands coming from Hunts is equally stupid.
Oils/Sands should (only) come from the highest level content we have.
Reading comprehension is hard.

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Originally Posted by Alistaire

Why? If someone thinks those should only come from coil then being mad at another option suggested when they think 2 is too many makes perfect sense. You may not agree with the opinion but there's certainly no WTF'ness about it.

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That sentence was oddly constructed, but this is what he's pointing at:

Coil people asked to remove sands from the hunt.
Hunters jumped on coil people for getting mad when it's just another option.
A third group now asks for sands from soldiery (which atm is way more controlled than the hunt)
Hunters jump on this third group for suggesting another option outside hunts (the nerve!)

Irony at its finest.

Sands from soldiery is not any worse than sands from the hunt, on the contrary, at least soldiery has a weekly cap.

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Originally Posted by saeedaisspecial

Oils/Sands coming from Soldiery is stupid.
Oils/Sands coming from Hunts is equally stupid.
Oils/Sands should (only) come from the highest level content we have.
Reading comprehension is hard.

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Why are you replying for someone else? That's not what Gilraen said. Stick your nose into someone else's business, thx.

But it's not irony.

Coil people want sands to come from coil. They were mad/displeased/whatever, that they added a 2nd option, of course they're going to feel the same about a suggestion for a third. There's absolutely nothing ironic about that.

I think what people Fail to realize is that this game is about a year old now (ARR that is, i didn't need to point that out but you know, people) this gear WILL be outdated in upcoming patches and i secretly suspect SE wants you to cap out on this stuff as they are planing to release content that will make all of that moot.

So all this complaining about it is pointless. Then coil people will rush to the new gear. and then High allagan armor/weapons will be "for casuals" etc. This cycle will always continue.

I don't understand why the 'leet' would be so irritated by this request. You already have your 'I'm better than you' High Allagan to wear. You can't buy that with soldiery.

So at the heart, it's the ilvl. For some reason you can't stand having a casual player have the same ilvl as you? That's bizarre. You have your special gear. Your achievements. Your attitude (clearly). Just let the number go? It's all a gear treadmill anyway. Soon you'll have a whole new set of leet armor to show you're better than us plebeians.

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Originally Posted by Volcano

and then High allagan armor/weapons will be "for casuals" etc. This cycle will always continue.

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How will High Allagan ever be for casuals, when no one bothers running it? o_0 Why would you spend hours learning hop-skip-and-jump mechanics like that, for what will essentially become nothing but glamour-ware?

Missing the point.

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Originally Posted by Alistaire

But it's not irony.

Coil people want sands to come from coil. They were mad/displeased/whatever, that they added a 2nd option, of course they're going to feel the same about a suggestion for a third. There's absolutely nothing ironic about that.

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And seems like my post wasn't clear either... Chocolate_Rain is pointing the irony of hunters (not raiders) getting mad at this third group for suggesting another option, when their way to obtain sands is way worse (worse as in terrible game design).

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So at the heart, it's the ilvl. For some reason you can't stand having a casual player have the same ilvl as you? That's bizarre. You have your special gear. Your achievements. Your attitude (clearly). Just let the number go? It's all a gear treadmill anyway. Soon you'll have a whole new set of leet armor to show you're better than us plebeians.

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It's because some people have the illusion that if they get BiS gear, it should remain BiS forever, and always be as hard to obtain as it was originally. Otherwise people haven't "earnt" it with their horse and carriage. Considering that we're a year into this game and it's very obviously a vertical progression model, that kind of sentiment is pretty daft.

I mean have a think about this, the other thing that has changed recently was the speed of acquisition of Novus weapons (via the huge increase in Myth output). This effectively de-valued the work of people who had completed their weapons before Myth got buffed. However, I don't see any complaints from the Novus owners out there that it's now easier to acquire, but there are plenty of raiders who were vocal about Sands/Oil/UAT being added outside of coil. Clearly the conclusion to come out of this is: Raiders = Whiners.

I'm very interested in seeing how delicious people's tears will be when they announce the next phase of the Novus update, because it's almost certainly going to trump HA weapons.

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Originally Posted by Amberyl

Why are you replying for someone else? That's not what Gilraen said. Stick your nose into someone else's business, thx.

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Why do you care that they replied? And it may not be exactly what I said, but it is a less that polite way of getting to the heart of it. I don't mind if people say something for or against me, it's their right to do so. Now, I'm not 'leet', I've never beat Twintania thus I've never done Turns 6-9. Thus I don't see soldiery as being this exclusive currency only superlatively geared people can get. It's easy to get if you don't mind spamming dungeons, hunts and whatnot. Making the items to upgrade soldiery bought equipment available for soldiery kind of trivializes the soldiery gear. I will concede that a compromise could be reached. Maybe have all soldiery gear require unidentified tomes like the weapons, then I can see buying the upgrade items with soldiery.

I don't know If anyone said it already, but you'll be able to purchase SoT,OoT,UAT with sold in around 3 months, which will be unlimited. So if you can't/don't want to do Coil or Hunts, you need to wait. :o SoT will drop in ST 'soon', but that's way harder to get.

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Originally Posted by Gilraen

Why do you care that they replied? And it may not be exactly what I said

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Because even now, after your own reply, he was misquoting you. There is nothing worse than misinformation and Chinese whispers in a debate.

That aside, you're still not making much sense, yourself. You're saying that the idea of being able to buy ilvl 110 conversion from the same process that buys you ilvl 100 gear, would trivialize the ilvl 100 equipment, yes?

But isn't that exactly what hunts already do? o_0 That's the point of the backlash. You can cap the game off fates, and gear to max from hunts without ever stepping into a group instance.

You make no sense at all.

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Originally Posted by Amberyl

You make no sense at all.

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Probably because I haven't been spamming hunts 24/7 to understand just how much damage they've done. I haven't once said they haven't done harm, but I haven't really commented on them because I don't really know what they are fully about. All I know is that are the NMs people wanted and now noone wants them... :/

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Originally Posted by Gilraen

I haven't once said they haven't done harm, but I haven't really commented on them because I don't really know what they are fully about.

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My dualbox account has an ilvl in the 90's and hasn't done a story quest above lvl 24. Almost all of that gear came from casually stumbling across elite marks while atma grinding my main. It's weapon is an ilvl 70 proc bought solely with the money generated in the first 20 levels of content, because hunts have devalued them so much they're worth pittance.

Let me repeat that, just to get the point home. An ilvl in the 90's without ever having progressed the main story beyond getting it's chocobo.

Hunts have destroyed the structure of endgame. They layered vertical progression in every patch until 2.3, and then wrote off almost every piece of instance content added since 2.0 release.

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They layered vertical progression in every patch until 2.3, and then wrote off almost every piece of instance content added since 2.0 release.

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Hah. Garuda/Titan/Ifrit EX and Rowena's Tokens would like a word with you. They got written off in 2.2. So Did Binding Coil for that matter. Something similar will happen in every major patch, it's just that hunts have had a bigger impact than normal.

What bothers me more is when we get content that doesn't even seem designed to last a full patch cycle (e.g.):
- CT
- ST
- Ramuh EX

Having said all that seal acquisition from hunts is pretty damn high, and it's hard for them to go back now. Dailies certainly need a buff though.

Oils from ST are a great example of something that's nearly a complete waste of time targeting, you're simply better off doing hunts. It would be pretty nice if they could fix this too, and to be perfectly blunt they should add Sands. It's not as if people are struggling to get them from hunts.

When 6/8 people are still trying to lot Sands in ST on a Monday night before reset, I can't help but think it's a bit broken.

Just make it expensive enough to limit the supply and you've solved just about everyone's issue with the concept. Say 1300 tomes.

3 weeks for one sand is NOT overpowered. Idiots who are ranting about 'OMG! You got sands without doing coil!" should also be moaning about Hunts, since you can save up marks for bloody tomes and trade those in for sands too. But these are probably the same people actually running hunts and farming sands anyway.

Keep the 'special snowflake' attitude for the few people who care, you're a minority in any case. Options should always be there, so that people can work towards these things as a long term goal. You can get your armor-of-elite-smugness in a single drop, others will work longer for it. If this upsets you, then maybe you're not mature enough to be playing this game.

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Originally Posted by blowfin

What bothers me more is when we get content that doesn't even seem designed to last a full patch cycle (e.g.):

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Doesn't last a week, let alone a patch cycle. The complete lack of comment on all this is astounding too. We've had over a year of clarification and explanation, and then when it comes to the biggest single f*ck up they've made since 2.0's launch, they won't even confirm it's being played out as intended.

2.4 needs to be pretty monumental to justify resubscription, and I don't just mean the new classes. Anyone with a brain and the stomach for the hunts farce will have that capped and near ilvl 100 in the first week.

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Originally Posted by Amberyl

Doesn't last a week, let alone a patch cycle. The complete lack of comment on all this is astounding too. We've had over a year of clarification and explanation, and then when it comes to the biggest single f*ck up they've made since 2.0's launch, they won't even confirm it's being played out as intended.

2.4 needs to be pretty monumental to justify resubscription, and I don't just mean the new classes. Anyone with a brain and the stomach for the hunts farce will have that capped and near ilvl 100 in the first week.

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Watch them come out with a ridiculous ilvl increase (130 or 140) just to invalidate i110.

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Anyone with a brain and the stomach for the hunts farce will have that capped and near ilvl 100 in the first week.

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Well yeah that's exactly their intention at the moment, gear everyone up for 2.4.

But, I'd be really surprised if hunts remain as relevant in 2.4. They may make some changes and additions, but I can't see them allowing Hunts to overshadow the next edition of Coil. I think everyone forgets that a little bit, this is just a temporary situation until the next patch. To be perfectly blunt maybe we didn't all quite progress as fast as SE expected, hence the ease of gearing up via hunts?

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Watch them come out with a ridiculous ilvl increase (130 or 140) just to invalidate i110.

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Exactly, you'd expect Coil3 to be i130. Then all this qq'ing about hunts will seem just a little bit silly.

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Originally Posted by Alistaire

But it's not irony.

Coil people want sands to come from coil. They were mad/displeased/whatever, that they added a 2nd option, of course they're going to feel the same about a suggestion for a third. There's absolutely nothing ironic about that.

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There is already coming a third option that was once the planned 2nd option before 2.3

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Originally Posted by Alukah

Watch them come out with a ridiculous ilvl increase (130 or 140) just to invalidate i110.

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Is it confirmed that the next set of coil will be the last major ilvl increase before the expansion? Because if it is, i wouldn't be surprised if they took that time to make a massive jump in ilvl to compensate for Hunts and to buy time for expansion release.

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Originally Posted by Ryel

Is it confirmed that the next set of coil will be the last major ilvl increase before the expansion? Because if it is, i wouldn't be surprised if they took that time to make a massive jump in ilvl to compensate for Hunts and to buy time for expansion release.

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The next Coil will be the last coil, yes
In 2.5 will be the last CT and expansion pack maybe after 2.5

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Originally Posted by Felis

The next Coil will be the last coil, yes
In 2.5 will be the last CT and expansion pack maybe after 2.5

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Then yeah ilvl 130-140 makes sense, and i assume entry level gear for new expansion content will likely be 150.

Are sands THAT much important?

If you are not running coil, who cares about your ilvl? A bad player will remain a bad player, no matter the gear.

Coil is fun, hunts are not.

Ilvl is just a number, and even if you care about epeen you have to understand that it's a non-factor currently, since every baddie and his mother can get ilvl 110 stuff. So..who cares? Just do what's most fun for you.

There is no equal gear for PvP players,
there is no equal gear for CT players (the oil upgrade excluded, because that is not CT gear),
there is no equal gear for FATE players,
there is no equal gear for hunt players (the sand upgrade excluded, because that is not hunt gear),
there is no equal gear for dungeon players,
there is only gear for coil players!

And thats the frustrating thing everyone is getting upset about... Sand upgrading was never ment for non coil players, it was ment for an alternate methode to upgrade because in coil your job gear will probaply not drop for weeks, so you could upgrade with sand/oil if your job did not drop...well that was the original thing, but:

SE forgotten about all the leftovers, because with coil gear or its alternative you can do all other content and beeing OP because of attributes and ressistance... all the leftovers are just sheeps for those wolves in PvP... those wolves then force speedruns because they have the dps or armor to survive while the others die, they then blame everyone in CT because its too slow, they then doing hunts without waiting because upgrading a week isnt fast enough, they then skip fates because not interested in animus/novus untill knowing the final state...

It seems SE is not interested in their theme park thing any nore...

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All players are equal, but some players are more equal than others

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The problem they have ist that there is no alternative to coil, you will not get equal gear from other content. The source of the problem is in their unbalanced attributes, left 5 items, right 5 items and everyone adds +3 int or +3 str (results in +30 and that is a huge impact). The funny part is in coil you have strict DPS checks and you do not need more DPS after coil - its stupid...

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Originally Posted by Yukiko

words

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wat

/10chars

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Originally Posted by Gilraen

Sands and Oils are for upgrading the highest level gear we have, it makes sense to have them drop from the highest level content we have.

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"highest level content" featuring notoriously difficult encounters such as white joker and skogs fru

This thread is so fun

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Originally Posted by Purplenum

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Originally Posted by Nel_Celestine

So just to be clear, you can get a Sand of Time in 4 to 5 hours, and that's NOT broken at all?

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No of course not,

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so 1sand +tomestones (higher rate than anyother content)for 4-5H unlimited of "FATE difficulty" farming is not broken but one per week that prevent you to buy i100 gear this week is ARMAGEDON!

Actually, getting 375 soldiery without hunts would be harder than getting the sand via hunting and would take way longer because of the cap ...

My only thought of this idea is patch 2.4. It make sense due to the fact that the last coil of bahamut will be coming soon so most likely the nxt ilvl gear set will be around 130 if no one haven't noticed the pattern. So by that time they most likely won't do it sense the backup is the hunt so ppl are spamming that for the chance for a log to drop and can buy logs from seals. Then they'll release it in ST before 2.4(probably either 2.35 or 2.38) so you'll have multiple options to get them. So I don't see them make it able to buy until 2.4 or another idea is after 2.45, 2.48 or something.

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Originally Posted by SeleneVenizelos

This is the exact same thing. People are so gods-damned determined to take offense at something that they assume they're bad by association of not clearing Coil when nobody said that. This instant offense is a very telling reaction to something that shouldn't offend anyone who 'truly' chooses not to do Coil. By getting so defensive you are basically saying "I'm bad, come and get me elitists!

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I quoted CeeTwo because if you read all his post it is exactly what he said it is.

I'm not trying to give excused for not doing Coil because I'm bad either. I just want to give example of there multiples reason people ovoid Coil all together not because they are bad players. I used to do Coil all the time, but starting to do it less and less because it cause a lot of Drama. Because there is a lockout, I can't invite my friends in if we have a static. I can't really play with them or invite them into Coil without causing a break down in the static. What if you're in an FC and a LS, and a few people in there are not very good and hold you back? DO you tell them and try to replace them with other people? I saw a lot of FC, LS break a part like this, friends torn a part, even people you know for 6 Months and more. When I play the game, I just play it for fun, but I always try to improve myself by tackle the hardest content in the game of coursed, but when it cost too much Drama, I rather ovoid it and save me the frustration and losing a friends over it. Sure there are people who are lucky, they have great static that can clear the contents all the time and this is all they do, but that just a different story.

When coil become unlock, it really a refresh feeling because you can go with anyone you want to and you don't feel a lot of pressure and drama like before. I feel like FFXIV lockout is a bad design all together. It disallow you to make friends, break apart FC, LS, etc. It is why people ovoids it.