WHY ARE YOU PLAYING A BARD IF YOU'RE NOT GOING TO SING?!

yup i have prolly killed an unknown amount of brain cells by reading this entire 12 pages of, "You Suck!, "No You Suck!"

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Originally Posted by DoubleT

yup i have prolly killed an unknown amount of brain cells by reading this entire 12 pages of, "You Suck!, "No You Suck!"

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Dear lord, why would you read this all? I'm sorry, there's no song to restore sanity, or I'd sing it for you.

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Originally Posted by Odd

I was called a bad healer for this last night during Titan HM. Insert table flip gif here.

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That's the party's fault not yours. As a general rule for me is to sing ballad as soon as the heart goes down unless their mp is still 90% but if people are getting hit by every WoTL them you'll need ballad.

I'm the only bard that foes ST. Foe helps all 3 alliances. Not using it is beyond stupid.

I sing all the time!

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Originally Posted by LunarEmerald

I'm the only bard that foes ST. Foe helps all 3 alliances. Not using it is beyond stupid.

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So you're the "only bard" who uses Foe's Requiem in ST. Since not using it is beyond stupid - congratulations, you just called EVERY SINGLE BARD EVER besides yourself "beyond stupid".

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Originally Posted by Riepah

So you're the "only bard" who uses Foe's Requiem in ST. Since not using it is beyond stupid - congratulations, you just called EVERY SINGLE BARD EVER besides yourself "beyond stupid".

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/soothe /comfort

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Originally Posted by LunarEmerald

I'm the only bard that foes ST. Foe helps all 3 alliances. Not using it is beyond stupid.

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Lol No you're not. Stop the confirmation bias!

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Originally Posted by Riepah

Which attack are you referring to? Rain of Death? That is nearly entirely useless nowadays, ever since they nerfed it. The only real drawbacks in switching to ARC are the arbitrary loss in stat points (20 dex, 10 vit I think) and that AF2 equipment and relic/atma etc. can't be worn, so you've to get other things. Allagan works, soldiery works.

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Well it's great for extra Crit hit when you get it. But yeah I'm starting to think switching back to ARC may not be an entirely bad idea with people switching goalposts and cherry picking arguments here. Then they can learn how to deal without the support :P

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Originally Posted by Yoninxi

I'm sure you know how quick people will turn on a healer when they see multiple dead people. Party rage generally goes from Tank > Healer >>>>> DPS.

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Uhh no. This is only a problem if you're not healing Rezzing people is like 700 MP, and without a Shroud to regain 200. So what you're telling me is again a specious argument you're trying to use to "win" but it falls apart logically.

If you're say rezzing 3 people 3 times that's 6300 MP. At that point if it's multiple people dying then there's a serious problem with party performance if you're doing the regular heals right.

So you'll excuse me being a bit incredulous

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Originally Posted by Charisma

lol at bards, only need to press 4 Buttons, easiest class to evade AoE, and still not capable of watching the partys MP.

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it's actually 2 buttons if you bundle all the attacks to one button and all DoTs to another button. easiest job I've ever play and it's the job I'll choose when I want to be lazy. :D

You can play bard with two buttons but you'll do crap dps.

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Originally Posted by Evangela

it's actually 2 buttons if you bundle all the attacks to one button and all DoTs to another button. easiest job I've ever play and it's the job I'll choose when I want to be lazy. :D

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https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/i...3QVaqak9m9t9yb

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Originally Posted by Evangela

it's actually 2 buttons if you bundle all the attacks to one button and all DoTs to another button. easiest job I've ever play and it's the job I'll choose when I want to be lazy. :D

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(you're doing it wrong)

In regular/perfect circumstances, healers should not need Ballad. A lot of WHMs Shroud of Saints when they're at too low MP, just like Melee DPS with Invigorate. If you use these skills when you see that you can no longer cast something, then it is too late. At the same time, these circumstances don't usually happen, so that's what songs are for. If players are getting hit with avoidable damage and also die, then ballad will be needed. It is your responsibility first and foremost to handle your MP and TP management, but in cases when healers are healing too much due to people taking too much damage, then you should throw out a ballad to help. Although, when you have those healers constantly spamming the tank whenever they fall below 95%, I won't use Ballad ;)

"Why, you don't have the luxury of having it cast when a BRD isn't in the group, so you DON'T need it". Ok, then by that logic, just pretend you're not a BRD. Is it OK for a SMN refusing to SC Ress because of the same reasoning, even though it could help the group recover? Why even have different and varied classes in the first place, then? If you have the means of helping out the group, DO IT, not doing so is being selfish.

And then there's stuff like Foe's Requiem, which does not detriment you at all. If there is casting going on in your group, why not use it? How is it negatively affecting you? As a caster, I shouldn't have to go to the point of saying, "hey, can you cast Requiem?" provided that the circumstances are safe and no other song should currently take priority (I'll do it when needed), but that's your job, you're part support class, and you should know that. Getting songs during your Job quests should make that clear to you.

I just wish i could see other peoples TP.

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Originally Posted by Grimmies

I just wish i could see other peoples TP.

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I don't see that as a big deal, honestly. It's pretty rare to have melee DPS run out of TP if they use Invigorate at the 600TP mark instead of when it's almost gone.

In AoE situations, it can be different, depending on how good DPS is and if tank can mitigate correctly so healers can DPS freely. Things can get hairy if DPS is bad, but in cases like that, especially with a tank that doesn't even use defensive cooldowns, AoE pulls will just make things slower, so it's a moot point. At the same time, if you're doing more DPS than the melee DPS, like DRG RoT spamming, then I would see Paeon as a DPS loss and reinforcing lazy/bad playstyles :D

I actually have the hardest time managing TP as BRD if tank is chain pulling new groups right after old ones die, keeping Windbite and Venom Shot on groups of 3 mobs with no breathing room in between certainly takes its toll ^^

Just FYI, when I am playing bard in a party with a WHM who blows ALL of his/her MP on holy without any restraint whatsoever, I make a point of NOT playing ballad for them. DPS is NOT your job. If you are not going to save at least SOME MP to do the job that you are there for NO OTHER REASON to do, that is YOUR bad, not mine. You are not a DPS, you are a healer. If you want to DPS then Queue up as a DPS. If you are a healer, you can DPS with your MP so long as you have enough for the needs of the party, but if you blow ALL of it on your DPSing without any thought whatsoever for the role that you are supposed to be playing in that party that is YOUR bad, not that of the bard.

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Originally Posted by ClaireAbigail

That's the party's fault not yours. As a general rule for me is to sing ballad as soon as the heart goes down unless their mp is still 90% but if people are getting hit by every WoTL them you'll need ballad.

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Oh I know it was the parties fault, hence the table flip!

Charisma Id hope by thinking like that you never ever try to play as a BRD

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Originally Posted by Odd

I was called a bad healer for this last night during Titan HM. The thing is, no one died because I was having to spam medica after every set of plumes, and bombs, because 3 or more players were taking avoidable damage every time. I was told to " suck less" when I asked for ballad. Insert table flip gif here.

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This is a classic example.

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Originally Posted by Odett

I don't see that as a big deal, honestly. It's pretty rare to have melee DPS run out of TP if they use Invigorate at the 600TP mark instead of when it's almost gone.

In AoE situations, it can be different, depending on how good DPS is and if tank can mitigate correctly so healers can DPS freely. Things can get hairy if DPS is bad, but in cases like that, especially with a tank that doesn't even use defensive cooldowns, AoE pulls will just make things slower, so it's a moot point. At the same time, if you're doing more DPS than the melee DPS, like DRG RoT spamming, then I would see Paeon as a DPS loss and reinforcing lazy/bad playstyles :D

I actually have the hardest time managing TP as BRD if tank is chain pulling new groups right after old ones die, keeping Windbite and Venom Shot on groups of 3 mobs with no breathing room in between certainly takes its toll ^^

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I was thinking mostly for WAR and their TP issues. I mean, it wouldn't hurt for us to be able to see other players TP anyways, we have a song to restore it after all. You know, just in case someone runs out. lol

-Eats Jelly beans;
Let's see what we got here on the XIV forums this Sunday.

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Originally Posted by SarcasmMisser

It is a safe assumption that the people born on god's green earth are given the blessing of two (2) functioning eyeballs that can look at the party list, and the miracle of the human mind that can make decisions based on observation independently.

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I laughed so loud in rl to this .. xD!

IMO, they kinda messed up Bard...by trying to make it a support...and a DPS...whereas it should of been either or...
typically bards are full supports but I have no idea what they try to do.

- Mana lost is a rarity, unless the WHM is sitting out long fights, or died.
- The TP thing is if one of your tanks died I guess, a lot people have that one TP boost.
- Swift song...well...I think this should increase attacks in battle IMO for a while or movement speed. Will help for those and AoE hits.
- FoR - I see this the absolute most.


Also in 4 mans, they try to give you a Melee and a range DPS. So yeah. They're much more useful in 8 man or 24 man.
Though sometimes it won't hurt to ask for a song to be played. It wouldn't hurt to communicated some of the time, folks.

The big handicap for a Bard is using songs effectively. Remember, that every time they're using Ballad or Paeon they're losing out on 20% of their total damage. Which means the party is missing out. I'm not saying they shouldn't be used, but it's down to the Bard to decide when it's going to be most effective.

Sometimes its better for MP for the mob to die faster than it is to cut your damage and boost the White Mage for a bit. Natural regeneration is fairly rapid either way, so out of combat it's rarely an issue.

I heard black mages love foe requiem & goes bonkers when used in ST.
And i give em what they want & i just enjoy the fireworks :D

oh ya, thats a free tip to the nub black mages... if you see that foe requiem pop...
thats your cue to go crazy with your sparkly spells.
(the bard is most likely expecting it.)

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Originally Posted by ClaireAbigail

Or watching a Blm just stand there for x number of seconds because they did their rotation wrong and ran out of mp.

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That's what transpose is for. I mistime occasionally but it barely even affect my rotation. Just add in a running scathe or two to reposition pop off a bliz 3 and my rotation is back on. Heck, you don't even need to do that, you can use.... convert.... immediately then a bliz 3 to get back into rotation.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

BRD is a support class so it is like telling a WHM to actually use their heals. It can be confusing going with the generic representation of BRD that's an archer with the ability to buff occasionally, rather than a buffer with the ability to hold their own. Even the original FF BRDs can hold their own, even in XI, just not on the same level as other fighters.

Regardless though, I've seen plenty of eventually wipes because BRDs who won't use Mage's Ballads after us healers constantly raise either them or other people who don't know how avoid death.

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There are no support jobs in the game currently, bard is a dps with support like actions. So, your whole statement is invalid

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Originally Posted by IshidaTsukuyomi

There are no support jobs in the game currently, bard is a dps with support like actions. So, your whole statement is invalid

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It can be confusing going with the generic representation of BRD that's an archer with the ability to buff occasionally

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Which is exactly what I stated.

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Originally Posted by Marael

DPS is NOT your job. If you are not going to save at least SOME MP to do the job that you are there for NO OTHER REASON to do, that is YOUR bad, not mine. You are not a DPS, you are a healer.

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A White Mage holying trash will do at LEAST double the amount of damage you could ever do as a bard. Do your job and give them a ballad.

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Originally Posted by reality_check

A White Mage holying trash will do at LEAST double the amount of damage you could ever do as a bard. Do your job and give them a ballad.

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If a WHM runs out of MP for spamming Holy, then he's doing his job wrong.

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Originally Posted by reality_check

A White Mage holying trash will do at LEAST double the amount of damage you could ever do as a bard. Do your job and give them a ballad.

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Did you happen to miss the, "Balled not even strong enough to allow a WHM to keep holy spamming" or you just blind? Oh wait, guess your attitude alone answers that. No less a GOOD whm would know when to stop holy spamming and have enough mana to keep their party alive without a brd having to do balled. If they are holy spamming down to nothing in mana, they are just abusing the fact that there a bard there. Just saying.

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Originally Posted by Riviere

If a WHM runs out of MP for spamming Holy, then he's doing his job wrong.

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The more Ballad a white mage has the more they can holy the faster you clear the trash.

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Originally Posted by Cylla

Did you happen to miss the, "Balled not even strong enough to allow a WHM to keep holy spamming" or you just blind? Oh wait, guess your attitude alone answers that. No less a GOOD whm would know when to stop holy spamming and have enough mana to keep their party alive without a brd having to do balled. If they are holy spamming down to nothing in mana, they are just abusing the fact that there a bard there. Just saying.

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Ballad makes a significant difference in how much Holy a white mage can do in a 4 man dungeon on trash.

Also, abusing the bard because of ballad?

THIS IS YOUR JOB. THIS IS WHY YOU PLAYED A BARD INSTEAD OF ANOTHER RANGE DPS CLASS. Your 20% damage reduction is nothing compared to the extra damage the white mage is going to pump out with holy.

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Originally Posted by reality_check

The more Ballad a white mage has the more they can holy the faster you clear the trash.

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My point still stands. If he runs out of MP and puts the party at risk for spamming Holy, then he's doing a bad job.

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Originally Posted by Riviere

My point still stands. If he runs out of MP and puts the party at risk for spamming Holy, then he's doing a bad job.

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Omg. You don't Ballad the white mage only when he runs out of MP. You Ballad him while he's casting Holy so he can afford to cast more Holy before having to stop when he's low on MP. Or you Ballad him between pulls so his MP is full for the next pull.

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Originally Posted by reality_check

Omg. You don't Ballad the white mage only when he runs out of MP. You Ballad him while he's casting Holy so he can afford to cast more Holy before having to stop when he's low on MP. Or you Ballad him between pulls so his MP is full for the next pull.

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Omg and you still don't get the point LMAO.

i always thought the white mages job was to heal, not worry about DPS. \(@@)/

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Originally Posted by reality_check

Ballad makes a significant difference in how much Holy a white mage can do in a 4 man dungeon on trash.

Also, abusing the bard because of ballad?

THIS IS YOUR JOB. THIS IS WHY YOU PLAYED A BARD INSTEAD OF ANOTHER RANGE DPS CLASS. Your 20% damage reduction is nothing compared to the extra damage the white mage is going to pump out with holy.

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Hmm, that funny, because a good bard and white mage team would be a bard doing foe and white mage spamming holy but saving enough mana to keep their group alive and allowing the bard to do their dps. But hey, what do I know huh? WHM main, BRD 2nd and I'm that WHM who holy spams but never has to ask the bard for balled. Well damn, I must not be doing my job right. (LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLOOOOOLLLLLLLLLL)

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Originally Posted by reality_check

Or you Ballad him between pulls so his MP is full for the next pull.

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As fast as MP regeneration is, no.

Also, I ballad when the WHM is at approx 33% MP remaining. This has been the safe zone in my experience thus far.

I didn't pick bard to sing. I just like it more than the other range jobs.

This thread in a nutshell

1. Healers that run out of MP are bad.
2. Don't ask for songs because it abuses bards
3. For Requiem is useless
4. Holy is bad
5. Some bards just want to DPS, so don't ask them for songs
6. Don't raise people if they die

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Originally Posted by Yoninxi

This thread in a nutshell

1. Healers that run out of MP are bad.
2. Don't ask for songs because it abuses bards
3. For Requiem is useless
4. Holy is bad
5. Some bards just want to DPS, so don't ask them for songs
6. Don't raise people if they die

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FFXIV combat as explained by bards.