So, now Monk/Dragoon have to compete with yet another class?

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Originally Posted by Velhart

Been playing MMO's for 15+ years now, and one thing I learned that simplicity of a system is more beneficial than making a needlessly complex system. All I keep seeing is you wanting stats to be like FFXI.

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That's funny, I've played for as long or longer, yet I've had the complete opposite as opinion.
And no, I would like more life/complexity. I could give you examples from WOW/GW2/RO/etc. FFXI? Not so much. It was still too linear, there too.
Your idea of simplicity is only good for raids, where people try min/max. But for everything else, you'll have to admit it, it's plain boring and bland.

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Originally Posted by Tashigi

That's funny, I've played for as long or longer, yet I've had the complete opposite as opinion.
And no, I would like more life/complexity. I could give you examples from WOW/GW2/RO/etc. FFXI? Not so much. It was still too linear, there too.
Your idea of simplicity is only good for raids, where people try min/max. But for everything else, you'll have to admit it, it's plain boring and bland.

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No not really, I like it black and white on what is good for me and what isn't. The secondary stats do enough to let you be creative in what direction you want to take your stats.

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Originally Posted by Kerberon

Agility is a synonym for Dexterity. They both mean the same thing. Unless you are meaning something non-standard for AGI it would be kind of repetitive and pointless to add it in.

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They both deal with a similar concept, but agility has more to do with the speed your body can perform at and dexterity is the precision your body performs at those speeds. Dexterity also has a lot more to do with hand eye coordination.

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Originally Posted by Tashigi

Think of future classes/jobs. Are you going to align EVERY melee to STR? Because that's just sounds lazy as heck and boring.

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Well, if you haven't noticed, the stat system in FFXIV IS lazy as heck and boring - and this is by design. SE got all kinds of complaints in FFXI about stats that were hidden from view, stats that had effects that were vague and unexplained, stats that did weird and unexpected things. (VIT contributes to healing potency? AGI improves ranged accuracy even though DEX improves melee accuracy? Accuracy, of all things, is a hidden stat???).

In ARR all that changed. Every stat is visible, every stat is simple in what it does, and what stats do are clearly visible to the player. It is possible that they will add new stats in the future, or change the effects of existing stats, but I doubt any such change will be made just because it fits the "theme" of a given class. Stats are simple and boring because they want them that way and because they believe the casual playerbase they primarily target wants it that way.

Since this got raised, I'm just going to drop this here.
http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/06...sses-and-more/

Massively: Any chance we can find out about what equipment Rogues/Ninjas will wear so we can prepare ahead of time?

Naoki Yoshida, producer: First off, because the class is going to be a melee DPS-type class, that gear that you have for other melee DPS classes and jobs is probably something that you'll want to hold on to. On the other hand, weapons are all going to be new because it's going to be a special type -- the dual wield. While you can use existing gear, the weapons will be all new and players can have fun collecting them. As for the special and Primal weapons, there will be rogue and ninja versions

I'm more concerned about the class skills.

I wanna start farming those on my alt and be ready for it.

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We talked about it, and I'm not one to lie to the fans,

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I choked on my own laughter.

I think this just needs to be mentioned again for the people adamant it was a dex based class.

Ninja - Armors to get?
Hey there,

In the interview with Massively Yoshida-san answered this question :

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"Massively: Any chance we can find out about what equipment Rogues/Ninjas will wear so we can prepare ahead of time?

Naoki Yoshida, producer: First off, because the class is going to be a melee DPS-type class, that gear that you have for other melee DPS classes and jobs is probably something that you'll want to hold on to. On the other hand, weapons are all going to be new because it's going to be a special type -- the dual wield. While you can use existing gear, the weapons will be all new and players can have fun collecting them. As for the special and Primal weapons, there will be rogue and ninja versions."
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http://i.imgur.com/d9dNJQY.png http://i.imgur.com/d9dNJQY.png http://i.imgur.com/d9dNJQY.png
http://i.imgur.com/d9dNJQY.png http://i.imgur.com/d9dNJQY.png http://i.imgur.com/d9dNJQY.png
http://i.imgur.com/d9dNJQY.png http://i.imgur.com/d9dNJQY.png http://i.imgur.com/d9dNJQY.png
http://i.imgur.com/d9dNJQY.png http://i.imgur.com/d9dNJQY.png http://i.imgur.com/d9dNJQY.png
http://i.imgur.com/d9dNJQY.png http://i.imgur.com/d9dNJQY.png http://i.imgur.com/d9dNJQY.png
http://i.imgur.com/d9dNJQY.png http://i.imgur.com/d9dNJQY.png http://i.imgur.com/d9dNJQY.png
http://i.imgur.com/d9dNJQY.png http://i.imgur.com/d9dNJQY.png

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Originally Posted by Jaykos

the weapons will be all new and players can have fun collecting them.

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That right there has me concerned. There's a disconnect the size of a small galaxy between the reality of what players enjoy and what S-E believes to be the case.

Also, really necessary to insert all those pictures?

For the people that thought a stat which increases ranged attack damage was going to increase damage with a class that uses daggers yes it was.

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Originally Posted by Jaykos

For the people that thought a stat which increases ranged attack damage was going to increase damage with a class that uses daggers yes it was.

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Well, it'll more than likely end up with your post being reported as spam and deleted then your actual message will be completely lost.

Still, your call.

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Originally Posted by Jaykos

For the people that thought a stat which increases ranged attack damage was going to increase damage with a class that uses daggers yes it was.

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So basically, SE confirms what we already knew: SE is taking the lazy/boring route.
End of story, no need to spam with nonsense. You'll just get a warning or possibly a ban over nothing.

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Originally Posted by Grizzlebeard

That right there has me concerned. There's a disconnect the size of a small galaxy between the reality of what players enjoy and what S-E believes to be the case.

Also, really necessary to insert all those pictures?

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I have fun collecting weapons, of course i don't farm them but i like having a lot of them for vanity. If i find a new outfit and my weapon doesn't go well with it maybe a primal weapon can.

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Originally Posted by Naoki Yoshida, producer

First off, because the class is going to be a melee DPS-type class, that gear that you have for other melee DPS classes and jobs is probably something that you'll want to hold on to. On the other hand, weapons are all going to be new because it's going to be a special type -- the dual wield. While you can use existing gear, the weapons will be all new and players can have fun collecting them. As for the special and Primal weapons, there will be rogue and ninja versions .

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Well, this does give us ONE way to prepare: Gatherers, start gathering ore. Blacksmiths, start stocking up on metals. Dual-wield weapons are probably going to be made of metal, and are probably going to be crafted by Blacksmiths. With half of every server trotting out NINs, you can bet that HQ dual-wields will be flying off the shelves...

Hopefully, once Musketeers come out, some other class will get a piece of the action - Woodworking is a possibility since many rifles are partially made of wood; Goldsmith is another possibility, due to them dealing with intricate machinery. Or, dare I hope, the under-utilized Alchemist, because of the explosives involved?

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Originally Posted by Jaykos

For the people that thought a stat which increases ranged attack damage was going to increase damage with a class that uses daggers yes it was.

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Not needed. Also is shows you have general incompetence on how development works. They could simply make Dual Wield damage be based on DEX. Yoshida even claims it to be a special weapon type. If this is not the case, nothing is stopping them from making DEX affect these weapons regardless of the type.

Either way, both STR and DEX exist on much of the DPS gear, so most people who level DRG, BRD and/or MNK and are interested in NIN are pretty much covered.

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Point I'm trying to make is, no one knows what the job will entail as far as abilities, or how stats will affect said abilities. NIN might be STR based, and have abilities primarily affected by DEX. It might have a special weapon type, of which the damage is tied to DEX. It might be STR based as normal. It might not. No one knows.

However, I'll tell you what -- someone on reddit just recently found that there have been Rogue traits added to the game's data files already. And with those traits DEX traits were added as well. Anyone can see it themselves on FFXIVDB under 2.28 Abilities.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

Well, this does give us ONE way to prepare: Gatherers, start gathering ore. Blacksmiths, start stocking up on metals. Dual-wield weapons are probably going to be made of metal, and are probably going to be crafted by Blacksmiths. With half of every server trotting out NINs, you can bet that HQ dual-wields will be flying off the shelves...

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Erg..I think my Ninja will have really bad weapons then..I refuse to buy stuff before max level. Maybe my FC leader will make me some like she has before.

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Originally Posted by Jaykos

I think this just needs to be mentioned again for the people adamant it was a dex based class.

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Most physical DPS gear sub-50 has both STR and DEX on it, barring the heavier stuff for LNC/DRG.

http://i.imgur.com/Fnk8zRd.jpg

I doubt that Ninja can wear the Fuma set from CT.
Monk have it own CT set, Dragoon have it own CT set, Bard have it own CT set and Ninja would also get his own CT set.
Only CT sets that get shared between different jobs are Healer set, Mage set and Tank set

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

Hopefully, once Musketeers come out, some other class will get a piece of the action - Woodworking is a possibility since many rifles are partially made of wood; Goldsmith is another possibility, due to them dealing with intricate machinery. Or, dare I hope, the under-utilized Alchemist, because of the explosives involved?

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DoH for finished guns woul be blacksmith (the other DoH classes would only craft parts)

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It is in the fires and on the anvils of blacksmiths that weapons and tools of metal are crafted. Their work is in demand far and wide, whether it be hammering the blade of a sword at the forge, or whetting the edge of an axe at camp.
Limsa Lominsa has been renowned for its blacksmithing tradition since antiquity, though the advanced metallurgical techniques passed on today bear little resemblance to the simple practices of ancient times. The relatively recent birth of firearms has created an entirely new area of expertise which is being adopted with fervor by many ambitious smiths.

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Originally Posted by Felis

I doubt that Ninja can wear the Fuma set from CT.
Monk have it own CT set, Dragoon have it own CT set, Bard have it own CT set and Ninja would also get his own CT set.

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Monk and Dragoon have differing sets because they have different defense priorities in their sets. Matching up ilvl to ilvl, Mnk has an equal amount of physical and magic defense, while Drg has more physical defense, but less magic defense than a mnk. Seems pointless, but it's a reoccurring element when the devs. implement gear for mnk and drg. Idk if they will connect Nin to Mnk, but their is a design reason behind giving mnk and drg differing sets (defense priorities) that might not be there when assigning gear to NIN.

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Originally Posted by Jaykos

For the people that thought a stat which increases ranged attack damage was going to increase damage with a class that uses daggers yes it was.

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In most RPGs, DEX is often both the normal DEX and AGL. Meaning both hand speed and body speed. Ninjas have both, and rather than add a new stat to the game which would result in a massive change across the board in what each piece of equipment's primary and secondary stats would be, it'd be far easier to just make it run off DEX and save the trouble. Not to mention Ninjas throw Kunai (DEX based), and use hand signs (DEX) to use various Ninjutsu. DEX being their primary stat is pretty much an obvious guess to many.

meanwhile MNK DRG and BRD get exclusive armor while tanks, healers and casters have to fight for loot.

Well there's that Massively interview that says they'll use melee DPS gear so that's definitely STR, which means the worst thing that could happen would be them giving DEX traits to Rogue for the hell of it which would be silly as hell, which also makes it even more likely that's what's going to happen, because this game pulls stuff like this all the time. Kinda like how SCH still has INT traits that don't get converted to MND traits, though at least in that case it makes sense because ACN is INT based and you can technically switch between SMN and SCH anytime, as in as long as you have the seals, but still.

Please look forward to it.

By adding another Melee set for ninja it will throw off the gear balance even more.

It sucks being a Tank or Healer in a coil group because there is always another tank or healer that you must split drops with. The typical coil set up is usually 2 tank 2 healer, 2 ranged 2 melee. Most groups take something like PLD WAR SCH WHM, MNK, DRG, BRD, (SMN or BLM). Now then the tanks and healers are almost always behind on gear when compared to everyone else due to having to share drops. With them adding yet another melee set for Ninja prob share accessories with mnk and drg the drop pool becomes even more bloated and it will be even harder to gear up.

Here is hoping SE merges, mnk, drg, and nin gear into 1 set since they all use str.

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Originally Posted by Roris

Please look forward to it.

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or simply stop to look to datamined information, the class will not come before september, while the beta, they did change the game almost every month... who know what will happend.
the best guess for the equipement is the ninja = monk as gear. logical and simple.

i will never say it enough... it will be a huuuge mistake to have the fuma armor and don't allows ninja to use it. Fuma armor is a ninja armor, remember?

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Originally Posted by Zumi

Here is hoping SE merges, mnk, drg, and nin gear into 1 set since they all use str.

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it will change nothing actually, at worst they will prefer ninja to monk, if the dps is decent, the fact to use either piercing or slash damage will be a huge boost since the drg or war will increase the damage of the ninja.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

In most RPGs, DEX is often both the normal DEX and AGL. Meaning both hand speed and body speed. Ninjas have both, and rather than add a new stat to the game which would result in a massive change across the board in what each piece of equipment's primary and secondary stats would be, it'd be far easier to just make it run off DEX and save the trouble. Not to mention Ninjas throw Kunai (DEX based), and use hand signs (DEX) to use various Ninjutsu. DEX being their primary stat is pretty much an obvious guess to many.

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The producer of the game has just said the class will use strength and you're still trying to argue???

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Originally Posted by Jaykos

The producer of the game has just said the class will use strength and you're still trying to argue???

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Where/when was this said? Not questioning it, but want confirmation so I can start stocking up the STR gear.. lol

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Originally Posted by Wolf_Gang

meanwhile MNK DRG and BRD get exclusive armor while tanks, healers and casters have to fight for loot.

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Monk is probably going to have to share with NIN now lol. So only DRG/BRD will have the "unique" gear set unless they give ROG/NIN the DRG gear but heavy armor would be odd on Ninjas.

Pfft compete with monk? Nothing competes with monk son, at least not mine! :D

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Not to mention Ninjas throw Kunai (DEX based), and use hand signs (DEX) to use various Ninjutsu. DEX being their primary stat is pretty much an obvious guess to many.

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Hand signs can also be Int based, using magic as chi energy, like Monk did with his auras in 1.0 (active auras consumed MP over time)

Ninja will be competing with Monk. If it isn't then someone at SE is a massive troll for adding Fuma to the game so early.

Also, as for what stat Ninja will use... Why can't it use both? White Mage uses MND and INT, and has an ability which swaps them; why can't Ninja have an ability that converts its STR into INT for Ninjitsu? Or DEX, whichever floats your boat.

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Originally Posted by Nalien

Ninja will be competing with Monk. If it isn't then someone at SE is a massive troll for adding Fuma to the game so early.

Also, as for what stat Ninja will use... Why can't it use both? White Mage uses MND and INT, and has an ability which swaps them; why can't Ninja have an ability that converts its STR into INT for Ninjitsu? Or DEX, whichever floats your boat.

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I was thinking this too, but in reality it still doesn't effect the gear it will focus on so doesn't change anything lol

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Originally Posted by neonexsis

don't think they have the same main stats I am Alost 99% sure they will be dex stats.

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Please, EVERYONE who believes this, do me a favour.
Go in game, open your character sheet and hover over Dexterity.
"Affects physical ranged damage, as well as parry and block rates".

Logic dictates they will use STRENGTH. If not STR, it will be a whole new stat (taking into account some of the ninjutsu we have seen appears to be magical damage... but then so does Dragonfire Dive.)

Edit- And, for those super special among you referencing OTHER games ("Thief in XI used DEX").. I would remind you this is not those games.
Yes, in some other games Dexterity is a melee stat generally reserved for "speed classes" (Rift for example, DEX increases attack power for Rogues by 0.5, crit by 0.5 and dodge by 1).
Again. THIS IS NOT THOSE GAMES.

@Tashigi- Really? I didn't notice the ridiculous back and forth between those making sense and those blowing sense out the window. I thought the thread only had three posts.
/sarcasm Really though. No need to call me out on it when Yoshida saying melee dps gear has already been brought up, too.

Yoshida already said in an interview to save your melee dps gear for ninja.

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Originally Posted by Alexia89

Please, EVERYONE who believes this, do me a favour.
Go in game, open your character sheet and hover over Dexterity.
"Affects physical ranged damage, as well as parry and block rates".

Logic dictates they will use STRENGTH. If not STR, it will be a whole new stat (taking into account some of the ninjutsu we have seen appears to be magical damage... but then so does Dragonfire Dive.)

Edit- And, for those super special among you referencing OTHER games ("Thief in XI used DEX").. I would remind you this is not those games.
Yes, in some other games Dexterity is a melee stat generally reserved for "speed classes" (Rift for example, DEX increases attack power for Rogues by 0.5, crit by 0.5 and dodge by 1).
Again. THIS IS NOT THOSE GAMES.

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This is new and exciting and hasn't been decomposed and broken down several times throughout this thread.
/sarcasm

Anyway, Yoshida said melee DPS gear. Which should hint at STR gear.
It's a poor choice in my opinion, but if that's what it'll be, so be it.

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Originally Posted by LunarEmerald

Yoshida already said in an interview to save your melee dps gear for ninja.

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Even that's not absolutely 100% as all "Disciples of War" gear has dex as well. I think it'll be STR, but you just can't use that argument to preclude the possibility they'll go DEX and just change some definitions.

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Originally Posted by LunarEmerald

Yoshida already said in an interview to save your melee dps gear for ninja.

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Can you link your source for this?

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Originally Posted by Fuma

Can you link your source for this?

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http://i.massively.joystiq.com/2014/...sses-and-more/

Guessing Ninja and Monk will just share the same gear except weapon.

Piercing Talon, Shield Lob, and Tomahawk are not affected by DEX.
They are very clearly "Ranged attacks".
The stat descriptions ingame are absolute nonsense with only the vaguest suggestion for what the stats do.

Rogue and Ninja will use Dexterity.

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Originally Posted by Sousoulsu

Piercing Talon, Shield Lob, and Tomahawk are not affected by DEX.
They are very clearly "Ranged attacks".
The stat descriptions ingame are absolute nonsense with only the vaguest suggestion for what the stats do.

Rogue and Ninja will use Dexterity.

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06-16-2014 05:22 PM

Please check dates before you post.