Exactly~. The past system with stamina was decent, annoying with no auto-attack, but many people could live with it aside from the growing lag as battle progressed.Quote:
Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1
I agree that in comparison to what we had, this system is shattered as you put it.
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07-22-2011, 04:41 PMOscillate_Wildly
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07-22-2011, 04:44 PMOscillate_WildlyThis isn't challenge, it's an unmanageable mess I wouldn't wish upon even my enemies. They stripped the battle system of the very foundation it was built upon, threw in a little duct tape, and shipped it out in 1.18. ): It's in sore need of adjustment.Quote:
Originally Posted by LuxLex
Edit: Further more, the team should have decided which this patch was for, battle adjustment or content. As the content was finished first, it should have shipped with just that. You cannot rip a battle system apart and try to patch what's left of it up with quick fixes and decide to yourself "That should do it, for now."
Whether or not people want to admit it to themselves or not, the stamina system was the backbone of XIV's battle set up. If you're going to dismantle it, do it right and not like this. If they're going to do this they're going to need to build the game from the ground up. With patches like this I can see the game is going in the 'right' direction whatever that is. Whatever appeals to the general masses I guess. However, instead of replacing them with something better, they're just ripping the parts out people disagree with and taping it up with the ones they do agree with. -
07-22-2011, 04:47 PMdarkstarpoet1which would have been easily remedied with a slight increase in the stamina bar regeneration.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oscillate_Wildly
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07-22-2011, 04:50 PMOscillate_WildlyWould you still have been appreciative of an auto-basic attack? For a tank, I know they would. Having to watch your crowd control as well as basic melee was hell from what I understand.Quote:
Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1
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07-22-2011, 04:50 PMVivoco88
:O
Thank you Evangela for the headlines.I have been off for more than 5 months now,i have been waiting and waiting for major improvement, but it seems Square-Enix keeps disappointing everybody .Oh boy, what really happened to Square Enix =(,is SE gonna go down like Atlus? (btw Atlus is no more) -
07-22-2011, 04:52 PMRinsuiYes. I also don't understand why they abolished the stamina bar (which had soooo much more potential) completely. They should have kept it, and make an auto attack fire whenever iot is full or something.Quote:
@Rinsui: ): Assuming we did vote for them? I personally did not. I was fine with the stamina system pending UI adjustments to fix the lag. Even an auto attack on top of that, to work slightly slower in the background while Stamina was used solely for TP moves, that would have been ideal.
*However*. My right thumb completely agrees that some sort of automatization was needed. And that's not the topic of this thread anyway.
I also believe that the increase in MP cost is extreme. But quite possibly they are just testing the waters. -
07-22-2011, 04:52 PMRathSkybreaker
Ok so look in an 8 person party you shouldn't be able to survive with 1 healer in the first place.. This being said you have two healers you can rotate passive / active between the two, with mana regen and actually putting points in MND people can then stfu and realize that this game has actually gotten what the majority of players wanted. Toughness, before, this game was shit easy.. THE NM's were a joke. Now I want to go fight them again because it seems like it might actually be worth the challenge TY SE you did a great job.
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07-22-2011, 04:56 PMOscillate_WildlyI hate to say that 'you're wrong' per se, but people did alright in XI with one main healer and a back up. Key word, back up. Not 2 main healers, with one warming the bench as a spare. That's just not fun, and people were apparently having MP management issues before the patch. I think they're the ones who are crying the loudest now, but those of us who did a well enough job were doing just fine. I never ran out of MP, and during NM runs I'd maybe get to half. Maybe that's a sign things were too easy for us, but after about 3 spells, 2 of which were offensive because autoattack is just not an option right now as a mage, my MP pool was down more than a quarter.Quote:
Originally Posted by RathSkybreaker
That is RIDICULOUS. Absolutely unacceptable. -
07-22-2011, 04:59 PMEvangela_II
I want to challenge the real hardcore content
not the difficulty from shattered game system -
07-22-2011, 05:00 PMRathSkybreaker
in XI there was 5 members per party in XI if i remember correctly, it's been years.. and you needed one healer.. which wasn't bad at all.. back up was usually a SMN when I played though BLM and RDM worked.. ok thats with 5 people.. with 8 it makes sense to need more heals.....
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07-22-2011, 05:00 PMLuxLex
I think the dev team just genuinely doesn't know how to create a challenging encounter - they are demonstrating that by resorting to fake difficulty.
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07-22-2011, 05:02 PMLuxLexMeanwhile, a bunch of people will say it is "balanced" for mage classes to either stand around doing nothing or cure only. Or they will say it is strategic for mages to have to spend most of a battle doing little to nothing. Or, my favourite, that SE made mages suck so that they would join groups, lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oscillate_Wildly
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07-22-2011, 05:02 PMdarkstarpoet1yeah and it is sooooooooooo much fun putting your weapon away in the middle of a battle instead of idk....what else could i be doing.... oh yeah.... actually helping in the battle like i was before.Quote:
Originally Posted by RathSkybreaker
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07-22-2011, 05:04 PMRathSkybreaker
What if they made mp regen possible during battle? Then I guess no one would cry anymore. Personally if i was playing a mage I wouldn't mind giving my fingers a break, especially if nothing exciting is going on.. I mean sitting out a few isn't a huge deal.
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07-22-2011, 05:04 PMEvangela_II
I doubt about how much the dev team had time to play their game
everytimes they adjust the battle balance, It always end up 'too high', 'too low' or 'too much' -
07-22-2011, 05:04 PMLuxLex
Darkstar, you just don't like standing around watching your mp refill cause you "hate thinking" - why do you hate strategy so much!
lol, I am sorry, but I had really high hopes for this patch and I am feeling pretty bummed out right now, since my classes are DoL/DoH (no love) and DoM (nerf city).... -
07-22-2011, 05:06 PMLuxLexWhereas, I play a video game to play it, not watch mp bars refill.Quote:
Originally Posted by RathSkybreaker
How would you feel as a DD if all your attacks took TP and you could only regen TP by being disengaged. So you would have to stand around storing up TP in between each battle, and if you ran out of TP during the battle, lose city? -
07-22-2011, 05:07 PMdarkstarpoet1another really simple fix. if they wanted to add auto attack after they had made the slight speed increase of the stamina bar regeneration speed have it to when if the bar got full you automatically attacked. that would have taken alot less time to implement and would have completely ripped apart the system in place that people have used almost a year.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oscillate_Wildly
yeah i know how dare i hate sitting and thinking.....omg will this bar hurry up i have things that need to be done. that's what i will be thinking about and if i need a full minute to think that up i have bigger issues than mana recharge. lolQuote:
Originally Posted by LuxLex
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07-22-2011, 05:11 PMRathSkybreaker
I play a game to play it too, but sitting out of the game for less then 3 minutes is not a huge deal, especially if it gives me time to access the situation. I'm not in a rush for anything, it also gives me time to socialize with my friends in the game, and make new strats. Not a huge deal.. And the point is it doesn't happen and if it did I still wouldn't care because again it's not a big deal to me. Let them add refresh and be done with it, seriously i've had no problems, people are already finding solutions to this problem through in-game means. Sorry that it isn't easy mode anymore, granted they should lower mp costs by a little but when I say little I mean 10-15 mp MAX..
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07-22-2011, 05:13 PMdarkstarpoet1it takes you 3 minutes to access the situation that the mob is attacking your team and realize you are doing nothing to help them? i'm sorry to hear that.Quote:
Originally Posted by RathSkybreaker
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07-22-2011, 05:14 PMRathSkybreaker
Wow, you take everything literally don't you, notice I said that and also mentioned I use the time to talk to friends. Some people are really never happy.
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07-22-2011, 05:14 PMLuxLexI guess this is why they needed to slow the game down.Quote:
Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1
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07-22-2011, 05:17 PMdarkstarpoet1it's a fight and not a pick up chat room. the great buffalo is not interested in a date.Quote:
Originally Posted by RathSkybreaker
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07-22-2011, 05:18 PMRathSkybreaker
The great buffalo was also easily killable with a party of 6 before this patch, and dadore and goblins were soloable whats your point? The game was easy mode..
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07-22-2011, 05:19 PMDubontnow it's incredibly hard mode and I love it.Quote:
Originally Posted by RathSkybreaker
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07-22-2011, 05:20 PMLuxLex
The only thing hard about watching your mp bars refill is resisting the urge to control-alt-delete.
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07-22-2011, 05:20 PMRathSkybreaker
Take points off of vit and put points on MND healers are supposed to be squishy in the first place.
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07-22-2011, 05:21 PMOscillate_Wildly
Just had a thought reading through all these posts, and a few of you bring up a good point.
I liked contributing to the damage done in battle while also main healing by, yes admittedly, spamming spirit dart. Was it perhaps as effective as a spell? No, but at least I was doing more than sitting on my ass while watching my friends take down leve-mobs and NM's.
Now almost having my position forced to the back like in XI, I realize again why I didn't like my job as a Red Mage, or as a scholar. Were we ever allowed to melee a mob? No, never. As a red mage, maybe until level 31, but that was the end of the line. That's what I liked so much about THE OMG FLAWED REDUNDANT SYSTEM that was in place up until a few hours ago.
At least in between cures I could get a few spirit darts in there before I had to do it again. Now that that's gone, I just don't know. :/ -
07-22-2011, 05:24 PMLuxLexSorry, what level are your mage classes? I am guessing below 22 since they don't show up on your sig.Quote:
Originally Posted by RathSkybreaker
So since you clearly have no interest in being a mage, what right do you think you have to dictate how gameplay should be for mages? What do you even know about it? -
07-22-2011, 05:24 PMRathSkybreaker
Who knows, maybe you'll get lucky with the job system.
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07-22-2011, 05:26 PMDubontget back to me when you're in the middle of a 30 minute fight where you don't have time to put up your weapon, then we'll talk.Quote:
Originally Posted by LuxLex
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07-22-2011, 05:26 PMRathSkybreakerConsidering I've played a mage on just about every other MMO aside from this one I have more than my fair share of experience with the class. Not only this but from the pure fact that THM was broken against NMs and the class was too easy I didn't want to level it. Now I want to level conj, also considering most of my friends went on a splurge on hitting 50 THM I know just as much as they do in terms of stat allotment.Quote:
Originally Posted by LuxLex
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07-22-2011, 05:27 PMAstrayI have to agree with this. I'd rather be spamming cures than sitting and watch everyone else fight. Viewing from the sidelines isn't strategy, it's poor game design.Quote:
Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1
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07-22-2011, 05:28 PMRathSkybreaker
Implement refresh ---> done. As I said earlier.
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07-22-2011, 05:28 PMLuxLexOh, so you just stand there with no mp, casting spirit dart once in awhile? Or do you stand there hoarding mp for cures? Both options sound super engaging.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubont
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07-22-2011, 05:33 PMAstrayRefresh would be the same as lowering mp costs. We shouldn't be working backwards now...Quote:
Originally Posted by RathSkybreaker
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07-22-2011, 05:34 PMNeptuneThey haven't changed diddily squat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivoco88
For real.. I couldn't believe my eyes that they changed the recast time without increasing the damage. Amazing. So now I can drain my MP by another 100 MP ever 30 seconds and do 200 damage? Good job, SE. And it is a complete joke that Conjurer ranged attacks are every 10 seconds while DoW have auto-attack from their range.Quote:
Originally Posted by Evangela_II
Atlus is still around, and they're doing great. They're about to release Catherine, a great game, and they released Demon's Souls, an incredible game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivoco88
Yeah you are failing to see the point of this thread. None of us want to be healers.Quote:
Originally Posted by RathSkybreaker
Why would they regen the MP if they want it to be almost 20% of your MP bar to begin with?Quote:
Originally Posted by RathSkybreaker
I think this is a great idea. That really puts it into perspective. If you could only regen TP by being disengaged there would be an uproar on these forums. You meleers need to take note.Quote:
Originally Posted by LuxLex
We're not healers.. Conjurer has 6 elemental magic spells.. 6 Ancient Magic spells, and 1 Cure spell. None of us signed on to be White Mages.. we aren't putting any points in MND.. our points are in magic attack.Quote:
Originally Posted by RathSkybreaker
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07-22-2011, 05:35 PMLuxLex
no, refresh would be great cause then we could have 1 job that does nothing but cast refresh and one that casts nothing but cure, and they will be so fun that parties will have no trouble finding people to fill that role in their groups. I know cause in XI no one ever ever ever had trouble finding a brd, rdm, or whm.
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07-22-2011, 05:38 PMNeptuneSeriously man, I totally agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oscillate_Wildly
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07-22-2011, 05:39 PMAstray
FFXI was flawed because your party wasn't good if you didn't have a Bard.