Solutions to stop speedrunning

It's also common policy to ask before attempting to pull off strategies in the dungeon, whether they are burning down the boss and ignoring the adds or speed running instead of grabbing each group 1 by 1. I've looked away from the laptop screen for 5 seconds to pick up something I dropped on the floor just to find that the tank has gone and pulled everything, without even giving a word of warning of the strategy, usually ending with me having to Lustrate multiple times in a row to save them. Those times if the tank had mentioned the strategy, they would have not been in such peril to where I would have to Lustrate spam to save them because I would have expected their actions. You cannot expect everybody to be on their A game if they don't know which strategy people want to use.

As long as the gear is sufficient, it is most likely a GOOD thing to expect that players actually want a Speed Run.

If you are that one geared player that forces his chillout mood on others just because you can, please take your own advice and don't use roulette.

And you would be well advised to not talk proud of such prick moves like letting someone die on purpose.. makes you look like a spoiled child that didn't get his lollipop, you know..

For your last story:
i watched you gear you are in all 90s.
You really expect the tank to see you and go like "uum, one grp at a time, bro"??? LOL
And of course it is his fault too that you were not looking at the screen!
And oh lord noes you had to use lustrate and could not just let fairy do all work?
Scandalous!

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Who decided that Speed Running without informing the party was a good thing? Yes I'm a horrible person for letting the tank drops if he tries without asking, I outright admit that. But if you think doing something that requires full attention from the rest of the party without informing them is a good thing, you're not too bright. Besides, if you're in the ROULETTE, meaning RANDOM PLAYERS, you should not expect a speed run to work nor should you expect everybody to be okay with trying it.

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who decided it wasnt?


who decided you stun ifrit
who decided you stack for plumes
who decided anything

there-are-no-rules

I hate speed running man. I'll do it, but I'm tired of every group trying to be a speed run. I'm starting to see it in low level roulette too, people trying to speed run things you can't speed run, like Satasha, Tam-Tara, Haukke Manor, etc. I'm just sick and tired of everybody wanting to speed run, it's been 7 days in a row with people trying to speed run everything, enough of it!

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

It's also common policy to ask before attempting to pull off strategies in the dungeon, whether they are burning down the boss and ignoring the adds or speed running instead of grabbing each group 1 by 1. I've looked away from the laptop screen for 5 seconds to pick up something I dropped on the floor just to find that the tank has gone and pulled everything, without even giving a word of warning of the strategy, usually ending with me having to Lustrate multiple times in a row to save them. Those times if the tank had mentioned the strategy, they would have not been in such peril to where I would have to Lustrate spam to save them because I would have expected their actions. You cannot expect everybody to be on their A game if they don't know which strategy people want to use.

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Why the hell are you whining about that tank in here?! The situation you described has ABSOLUTELY no relation to Speed Running. Yes that dude tried to start with SR, but the problem is not SR. It's clearly a case of communication. And on top of that what is the big deal?!?! You said it yourself, you adapted to the situation and Lustrated the heck out of people!

I'm sure that tank learned something of that death, either bad or good. But that's not something you can control, how people react. And again, no relation to SR itself. People problem!
You are a part of the problem, until you admit it, nothing will be solved.
We all are part of the problem!

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

I hate speed running man. I'll do it, but I'm tired of every group trying to be a speed run. I'm starting to see it in low level roulette too, people trying to speed run things you can't speed run, like Satasha, Tam-Tara, Haukke Manor, etc. I'm just sick and tired of everybody wanting to speed run, it's been 7 days in a row with people trying to speed run everything, enough of it!

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Has said by Spoekes, do not use Roulette or DutyFinder at all until you actually want to play with random people and maybe SR again. Your problem is solved and you didn't have to impose major modification to the game to everyone else.

There's a reason why everyone is doing Speed Run. I like to think that it is because they love to do so. And you actually want to kill that fun for everyone else just because you can't stand doing a speedrun? Seriously...

Let me try to make you understand using hypothetical situation:
Imagine a small country with 2 main language, let's say french and english. Let's pretend that country is surrounded by english countries. Now, in that first country, a small group of people is scared that french language will die. So they start and try to impose laws such as: Radio quota, a minimum % of french music has to be played per day in each radio station. Restaurants menu must be in french, even italian terms that everyone knows. Business titles must contain french words. Every publication must have a french version. Every game box must be in french. Etc etc.

Do you see how selfish that would be? Forcing everyone their ideas, just because they are scared. I'm not saying you are scared, I don't know you. You said you were sick of it, it's just as selfish if you ask me.

If I don't feel like doing a SR to save 10 minutes, then I'm not going to do one. If the df/roulette party really needs that, they can vote kick me and wait for a new tank.

I don't care if 99% of the people are doing roulette/df and doing SRs, if I don't have the right to impose a no SR on them, they don't have the right to impose a SR on me.

I have to admit that I'm a little wary chiming in with my two cents, but here it is. But first, story time for context:

I was doing DF Praetorium for the very first time, right? I always say "Hi, it's my first time." when I enter a dungeon for my first run -- when I did so in Praetorium, one of the tanks wanted to speed run -- admittedly, he was also incredibly douchey about it, calling me 'rude' for wanting to watch the cutscenes and making the rest of the party wait -- which was unfair to me. I told him no, I don't want to do a speed run, and others backed me up seeing as I was a first timer in the dungeon. Do you want to know what happened?

I was abandoned, caught in cutscenes, and was thusly unable to fight both Nero and Gaius, as they left me behind -- to the point where I was killed by a mob they skipped while trying to catch up with them and sent all the way back to the entrance -- it was sheer luck that I managed to catch up to them before Ultima. Now, I know I could have left, but it had taken me nearly two hours to get into this run and I have limited time to play and I would have had no time to do it again until literally the next week. It ruined the entire experience for me, and I still have yet to get the courage to try it again.

Also -- first time in Halatali HM, I was unable to say my usual 'hi, first timer' message because as soon as the circle disappeared they were halfway down the hall pulling the first group, and I could barely keep up (mind you, I play PS3, so it takes me a long time to type anything out and I cannot keep up with the party AND type at the same time). I get killed twice in the first boss, no one bothers to ask what's going on or explain what to do, they simply kick me out of the party before I can even react.

Another thing -- I am a casual player, and I am legitimately frightened of running BCOB for the first time because of speed runners. I'm BRD 50 and not the best player, not the worst either, but I'm scared of being booted for making one mistake or dying. This doesn't help me any, because it's a game, not a job, and I can't have fun doing something if I'm scared to do it because of speed-runners that won't listen to me.

This is why at least some measures need to be put in place -- I know it's a people problem, and leaving is always an option, but a lot of the time politeness and being up front with what you want or don't want is completely ignored, and that's not to mention first-time MMO players who've never experienced this type of thing before and don't know what to do with a bad group, so here's what I have in mind --

• First, as someone said, put back the One or more party members is new to this duty tag.
• Second, perhaps add Myth tomes to the completion bonus for new member-run duties? It gives people more incentive to stick with the first timer party instead of bailing.
• DO AWAY WITH OR LESSEN THE THIRTY MINUTE TIMER FOR ABANDONING A DUTY. Because yes, sometimes a party is shit and ignores you and you need to abandon, and you shouldn't be punished for that. I know some people abuse the DF, which is why lessening the amount of wait time is also an option.
• Basically, instead of making it harder for people to speed run, either give people an incentive not to or make it easier for the people who don't want to speed run to get out of it

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Originally Posted by Coth_X

If I don't feel like doing a SR to save 10 minutes, then I'm not going to do one. If the df/roulette party really needs that, they can vote kick me and wait for a new tank.

I don't care if 99% of the people are doing roulette/df and doing SRs, if I don't have the right to impose a no SR on them, they don't have the right to impose a SR on me.

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Think positive, most players can determine others capable to SR or not. Maybe just because you look good so others will want to SR with you. ^^;

IMO saving 10min is not important in a single run, but everyone max out their performance really exciting and less boring for repeating dungeons.

Don't like the idea of stopping speed running. What I would like is people to start communicating what they want instead of assuming one way or the other. Me? I don't care if it's a normal or a speed run, so I'm not going to ask. Especially if I greet everyone and get no response. I'll usually just do double packs. No one, and I mean no one has EVER complained about this unless they were expecting a speed run from a random tank that they can't say word one to until their expectations aren't being met.

Perfect example: Brayflox HM in Roulette last night. Checked the group out while we were waiting for the BLM to render in. Healer was good. DRG was geared okay, had a few sub-70 green pieces... Nothing to complain about, but not someone I'd take on a speed run either. So I do my normal double pull and I get "pull more". Pull the next pack. "Pull more." Oh you mean a speed run pull? Pull to the stream before the boss "Why did you bring them up there?" Wipe. Now that we're back at the start, we have a little chat, and the rest of the run goes very smooth. Moral of the story? Tell the tank if you want anything other than normal pulls. We're not trying to force speed runs on people that don't want them and we're not trying to slow down the people that do.

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Originally Posted by Nicobo

Think positive, most players can determine others capable to SR or not. Maybe just because you look good so others will want to SR with you. ^^;

IMO saving 10min is not important in a single run, but everyone max out their performance really exciting and less boring for repeating dungeons.

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Well sometimes I don't mind going really quick, but I prefer to be absolutely wipe free and all it takes is one wipe on a SR to more or less invalidate the whole point of doing it.

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Originally Posted by Coth_X

Well sometimes I don't mind going really quick, but I prefer to be absolutely wipe free and all it takes is one wipe on a SR to more or less invalidate the whole point of doing it.

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I doubt that.
Having farmed all the myth for my animus with brayflox first 2 speedruns, I have wiped about twice.
With our runs taking about 4.5 - 5.5 minutes each, I can say it saved me tons and tons time.

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Originally Posted by Staris

I doubt that.
Having farmed all the myth for my animus with brayflox first 2 speedruns, I have wiped about twice.
With our runs taking about 4.5 - 5.5 minutes each, I can say it saved me tons and tons time.

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On farm, yes total time would be more or less trivially affected.

But if you're going in for one dungeon on something like roulette, any wipe is more time spent.

Hell, just wiping on diablo cause person on door duty was too slow adds a few mins, and i've been in runs where everything was fine until that point and we had 2 wipes before finishing.

My issue is everyone wants to rush rush rush. I don't necessarily want to do AK, or pharos, or fricking tam tara again for the millionth time, but the time saved vs what time could be lost, I'd prefer to just take it easy. That and I have a shoulder problem and extended fast play actually wears it out (._.)

As a tank i'm not a fan of speed running unless everyone knows their roles. I dont particularly enjoy SR or farming bray HM as last boss can drop opo minion AND has bloody good music.

I would rather get a duty done than wipe and besides, how are people supposed to learn if everyone wants to SR? Like for me, i'm recently new to coil as i couldnt get a static group before and all everyone wants to do is rush through. I've watched videos and read guides but i still have trouble if people do stuff i'm not expecting lol

I don't think my issues with SR are with the action itself as i'm all for getting something done efficiently and effectively however, i think my issues are more to do with people just expecting me to know the concept without ever having done it.

It affects my game because im yet to try coil 2 or ex primals because of bad experiences with coil 1 and other duties. That may sound whiney but people are quick to forget when they had to do it first time and were probably called noobs.

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Originally Posted by Denyer87

I don't think my issues with SR are with the action itself as i'm all for getting something done efficiently and effectively however, i think my issues are more to do with people just expecting me to know the concept without ever having done it.

It affects my game because im yet to try coil 2 or ex primals because of bad experiences with coil 1 and other duties. That may sound whiney but people are quick to forget when they had to do it first time and were probably called noobs.

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Everything is on youtube. Its kind of old content so you cant really blame people for umm, expecting people to 'speedrun' coil 1, and you shouldnt worry about it either. People dont really expect much more of you ither than at least having seen a youtube video, and they are usually responsive when you say you are new but have seen a video. Since everybody was new at one point, you can think of those that still get mad from it yet keep using df/pf despite that as 'special people'. Its not your fault for being new, its their fault for not having a good LS or FC if they are so amazingly experienced. The fact they are so quick to flame probably has something to do with that.

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Originally Posted by Megido

Everything is on youtube. Its kind of old content

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Yeah i studied videos of T1 until i knew i was confident in myself enough to do it. I just meant that you can study all you want but when someone wants to do something not shown on a video, then go mad cus you're not sure just irritates me. I'm not a lazy player as i have always researched every new duty before i try them but unfortunately there's always 1 jerk-off who ruins the experience from time to time.

If i use DF i dont SR unless the pt asks because it doesnt matter how “old” the content is, it's going to be new for someone. Thats why the PF is so good, if you wanna SR go search there and do it lol

To be honest the OP reads as saying.

"I do not like Speedruns, I do not want Speedruns SO no-one else should be able to do them."

Makes him worse than the players he calls out who want parties to Speedrun.

Right. There will never be a way to allow i55 players to do the same dungeons as i100 people if they made the mobs too strong. There should be an advantage to having a high Ilvl in dungeons.

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Originally Posted by Elyse

Right. There will never be a way to allow i55 players to do the same dungeons as i100 people if they made the mobs too strong. There should be an advantage to having a high Ilvl in dungeons.

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Honestly either level sync should still be in effect for post 50 dungeons or...

I want i80+ 4man content please ; -;

Part of the reason SRs happen, is because we can completely overgear content. I'm not against people who want to SR either, but seriously, why are we getting HMs that we don't need?

Stone vigil Extreme mode anyone?

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Originally Posted by ticdup

The problem of having i55 dungeons inhabited by i90 players trying to farm soldiery for their i100 gear or myth for their i100 weapon. Simply, speed-running is enabled by the low ilvl of the dungeons.

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So much this. These dungeons are basically designed for someone who hit 50 yesterday and grabbed a handful of new gear, not for the vast majority of the playerbase who is sporting near full ilvl 90+ gear.

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

To be honest the OP reads as saying.

"I do not like Speedruns, I do not want Speedruns SO no-one else should be able to do them."

Makes him worse than the players he calls out who want parties to Speedrun.

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This! Can't agree more

When I'm tanking I always ask the healer how many mobs/groups they feel confident with me tanking at any one time. If they're new or if they are not overgeared for the dungeon, I always take it easy with the mobs.

I also look at the overall party composition. If the healer says "pull 4 groups" and I'm with a Summoner and a Monk I'll know that overall AoE damage will be low so I'll probably pull 3 groups.

When I'm a bard I don't mind speedrunning a dungeon as such because they are quite well-equipped to do AoE damage (the occasional free proc + Foe Requiem if paired with a caster). But when I'm a Monk I'm not very good at speedrunning because their AoE is poor. Arm of the Destroyer does pitiful damage for it's high TP (I only ever use it for its Silence effect) so I only use Rockbreaker for AoE every three turns.

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Originally Posted by Jeppo

When I'm tanking I always ask the healer how many mobs/groups they feel confident with me tanking at any one time. If they're new or if they are not overgeared for the dungeon, I always take it easy with the mobs.

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I also ask how they want to do it.

More often all I get is silence.

Exactly my problem. I have no issue holding hate on mobs but if i have too low dps then its not worth it. The thing i've been getting recently is i ask at the start if they want me to pull lots.... Silence. So i do the dungeon as normal and then they complain im not pulling enough. I get so irritated i've just started doing duties as blm while crafting in the queue times.

As a healer, I don't mind speed runs, but when tanks charge off or just drop in with an immediate "I'm speed running" without even asking the group, I start getting annoyed. Dropping in from Duty Finder into an i55 dungeon (where it's really recommended to be i75+ to do a fairly painless speed run) and saying "SPEED RUN!" without checking results in people wasting even MORE of their time because now they're going to wipe and possibly rage quit the dungeon, thus locking them out of Duty Finder for 30 minutes.

Stuff like this is what is going to cause SE to nerf the speed runs of places like Brayflox by adding more gates that require keys and stuff, so that way people have to pull only one mob and burn it down before they can progress. If you're queuing for Expert Roulette for extra Soldiery, then be considerate of the other party members who might not be able to handle pulls of the whole zone.

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Originally Posted by Jeppo

When I'm a bard I don't mind speedrunning a dungeon as such because they are quite well-equipped to do AoE damage (the occasional free proc + Foe Requiem if paired with a caster). But when I'm a Monk I'm not very good at speedrunning because their AoE is poor. Arm of the Destroyer does pitiful damage for it's high TP (I only ever use it for its Silence effect) so I only use Rockbreaker for AoE every three turns.

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Follow the person as they start grabbing mobs, pop Blood for Blood, Internal Release, start with Bootshine/Dragon Kick (whichever you feel like, this is just to proc move #2), then Twin Snakes, then Rockbreaker, then Perfect Balance and Rockbreaker spam until it goes out. Then just Dragon Kick - True Strike/Twin Snakes - Rockbreaker spam the rest of the way. If the mobs aren't badly hurt or dead by the time that Perfect Balance goes out, either you're not geared enough or the other DPS is lacking. It's what I use on MNK when in a SR group, or in T4 for the spiders.

I'm not sure what was said in all the rest of the thread but I have THE BEST solution to stopping speed running: make the game more difficult. The only reason people can speed run is because every single trash mob encounter in this game is a complete joke. As long as mobs remain nonthreatening then people will continue to do huge pulls and just AOE all the stupid things. Only way to stop huge pulls is the make mobs hit harder it's as simple as that.

Any tank worth their salt should be smart enough to gauge whether or not a speed run is a good idea based on their group. Pop in with 2 blms or a blm/brd or w/e, sure. Speed running is prolly a good idea. But if you pop in with, say, a drg, a mnk and an i55 healer and still think speed running is a good idea, you may want to reevaluate your tactical prowess.

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Originally Posted by DosonTheGreat

I'm not sure what was said in all the rest of the thread but I have THE BEST solution to stopping speed running: make the game more difficult. The only reason people can speed run is because every single trash mob encounter in this game is a complete joke. As long as mobs remain nonthreatening then people will continue to do huge pulls and just AOE all the stupid things. Only way to stop huge pulls is the make mobs hit harder it's as simple as that.

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No, that really isn't the reason.

The reason is that all the HM content they add is like i55 and there is no level syncing past 50.

As I said at an earlier time, what we need is Stone Vigil EX or maybe Aurum Vale EX i80+ or i90+

let's go :D

So, to speedrun, people usually outlevel the mobs there by ALOT. Like, ilvl 100 gear on a dungeon with a requirement of ilvl 55 gear. So, why not have an ilvl sync? All your ilvl 100 stuff get's reduced stats to make it on par with whatever ilvl the requirement is. All your ilvl 100 gear gets turned into ilvl 55 gear stat-wise.

Another thing people like to do, is skip mobs, or lock them out of the boss room. Simple solution here is make every boss summon adds. The adds are pulled from the mobs you skipped. In the end, you still kill all the mobs, even if you skip some, you end up fighting them as adds in the boss rooms.

Yep, let's get some duties that are for those that are geared i70+. Different tiers of them, with just rewards. You just ding fiddy, need to farm duties to get ur i60-i70 stuff. Then you progress along the tiers. Filling in with myth and Sold purchases along the way. Might make it more fun, challenging, different, whatever. It used to be I would get on every night to get my roulette bonus for soldiery and myth, I can now cap Soldiery in about an hour. So I didn't log in all week. I am enjoying life...and the sun more.

Just a thought.

Syn

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Originally Posted by Coth_X

No, that really isn't the reason.

The reason is that all the HM content they add is like i55 and there is no level syncing past 50.

As I said at an earlier time, what we need is Stone Vigil EX or maybe Aurum Vale EX i80+ or i90+

let's go :D

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I've never liked the idea of level syncing past 50. I like feeling powerful when I get new gear and absolutely destroying the older content, but I'm all for harder dungeons with higher ilevel requirements. It was one of my biggest complaints when I saw the 2.2 patch notes. Why are the new dungeons tuned to such low ilevel requirements? Not like it's hard to gear up in this game. People overgear these dungeons so quickly.

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Originally Posted by DosonTheGreat

I've never liked the idea of level syncing past 50. I like feeling powerful when I get new gear and absolutely destroying the older content, but I'm all for harder dungeons with higher ilevel requirements. It was one of my biggest complaints when I saw the 2.2 patch notes. Why are the new dungeons tuned to such low ilevel requirements? Not like it's hard to gear up in this game. People overgear these dungeons so quickly.

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I kinda feel like they are going to eventually do HMs for everything but that's honestly taking too long and especially if they end up being low ilvls.

I need to do coil, but coil's are 8 man. Maybe the new dungeons from here on out should be i80+ with all the HM dungeons being below i80 or something

Or maybe SE really doesn't mind the speedrunning regardless of what they say, seeing as how they could put an instant stop to it with level syncing :/

An expansion is too far away . _.

very tired of speed runs, that being said 1500 x 9 mythtomes is alot of grinding even with speed runs. i'm all for adding faster ways to get the tomes, but don't take away the current fastest way without replacing it first. imagine having to grind all 9 books at a pace of 200 tomes/hour knowing that people who did it before you were grinding 600/hour? SE will make the books easier to get with each patch not harder imo.

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Originally Posted by Hayward

I'm about to say something that is heretical: It is well past time for SE to take positive steps to finally blunt the influence of speedrunners. It is obvious that putting obstacles like Lantern Oil or making enemies drop small amounts of gil is not enough to discourage ADHD-addled players who want to pull the entire area and just fight bosses. The current Animus system has had a knock-on effect that has made this worse. As a tank, I have no use for this and will not entertain the thought in any dungeon.

One possible solution that comes to mind is something SE will have to swallow hard on: allowing non-boss enemies to drop Mythology tomestones (1 or 2 per kill, maybe) with a chance to drop a random Atma piece. I know the devs want to enforce some kind of rarity but Myth gear is no longer high-tier armor and loosening the grip on the currency can do no harm. I'd also say that no player would be foolish enough to pass up the possibility of 50-100 extra Myths simply for the purpose of cutting 3 minutes off their time.

Another idea would be to award bonus tomestones (Mythology and Soldiery) at the end of the duty, depending on the party's kill ratio. Not only would this give an incentive to not skip enemies, it would give an incentive to clear the room if the bonus for 100% kills is 50% extra Myths and Soldieries.

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The kill ratio method would work, the drops per mob doesn't.

Reason drops per mob won't work is, speed running is about collecting all the mobs and then just AOEing them down if their are blocks (i.e., latern oil) so it won't really change anything.

The kill ratio method will work because it will cause groups to go out of their way to get mobs.. remember AK, how many mobs are just bypassed, or you have to go a different direction to just kill.. so basically they are just wasted space.

Another method, make the dungeons difficult. Make these new hard mode dungeons required i90 gear.. so someone brand spanking new won't be able to get into them as a fresh 50.. heck most peoples alts now have i80+ gear, so make these new dungeons i90, make them hard, and make them the only dungeons to drop the Solidetry tomes, make the other dungeons drop just myth, but to add incentive to run them, make special crafting items drop from those dungeons for new recipes that come out. And they could also have duty roulette reward Solidarty tomes for doing these older dungeons, but no Solidarty tomes for running the dungeon itself.. this way higher geared people will still run them just for the duty roulette reward, and people who aren't geared for the i90 new dungeons will still have people playing with them

Speed running with killing mobs is normal, I don't know an MMO that groups don't do that, speed running while avoiding all mobs at all costs (including the infamous kill the tank and rez him somewhere method) those methods are just in this game as far as I know.. and it's kinda stupid that the developers need to come up with anti methods to lazy stupid methods like this.

Hi, I'm just a noob and I don't want to offend anyone but.... Okay, here it goes...

"It won't happen"

SE can't fight against the Speed Running of the dungeons because the game is clearly made for speed running... In the case of the tanks, you are encouraged to gear up and take more more gear so you can take more mobs in one time... Else what would be the point in gearing up? The unique progression in this game is gear up and gear up... In DPS it has clearly results in their numbers... In tanks and healers this progression is showed in speedruns and the amount of monsters they take.

In every game, a tank will level up and become stronger for take more groups...

In my opinion, speed runing is okay if you can. What this noob doesn't like is when someone forces others to speedrun.. And with this I mean, either force a tank, or a healer... (What does it change for DPS after all? They have to AoE fun? I already make some brayflox with my recently nooby 50 bard, speed ones despite my damage sucked, just because the tank and healer could.)

So, here it goes two questions... Can Square Enix change this? Of course they can, such as using the level sync function with ilvl, and such, but... It would be pointless, killing the feeling of progression for some players, so they won't.

Can Square Enix change the minds of their players? Not yet, they'll need some kind of special mind controller for that, please look forward to it.

See, again I don't know of any other mmo where people speed run like they do in Final Fantasy.. there are mmo's where they move fast yes, but they still pull a group, beat the crap out of it, and before it's done will grab the next group, but ONLY if we can handle it. In Final Fantasy, they run and pull the first 5 or 6 groups of mobs, then aoe all of them down, and move on, sometimes even before the groups are done... reason, the challenge is not there to make you have to pull groups slower and cc and all of that.

Tank gear progression was more about CC, whether it's needed or not per group, not I geared up and now can pull 30 mobs insted of 15 mobs...

There are certain spots where the speed run method can't work, you won't pull multiple Dulhannas (because if they do their big attacks it could kill the tank), or in Pharos, multiple zombie pulls because of a healer in it, and it's things like that they need to do.. increase the damage output, increase the mobs hp, and have more pats, and have pats that maybe link with other groups that are not on the normal path kinda thing.

Simply delay next patch for 3months. ^^ everything is too rush now.

ppl speed run because the content they speed run are NOT meant for them ilvl wise, but meant for them reward wise
thats all there is to it :P

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Originally Posted by DosonTheGreat

I've never liked the idea of level syncing past 50. I like feeling powerful when I get new gear and absolutely destroying the older content, but I'm all for harder dungeons with higher ilevel requirements. It was one of my biggest complaints when I saw the 2.2 patch notes. Why are the new dungeons tuned to such low ilevel requirements? Not like it's hard to gear up in this game. People overgear these dungeons so quickly.

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The inherent problem is the fact that low level dungeons still drop stuff that is enticing to higher level people

It's kind of a dilemma. Level sync will definitely force everybody to play SE way, but then it'd defeat the entire point of RPG (getting stronger). SE needs a way to entice people to do the dungeon not for the reward, but for doing the dungeon itself.

Perhaps... *shudder* dungeon-specific currency...?