Is anyone else really disappointed with the nerfs coming in 2.2?

I was thinking the same as I read the patch notes, Ampador Keep getting nerfed, Pharos getting nerfed so it's of the same difficultly level as Haukke Manor HM and Copperbell Mines HM - both of which are not even difficult. I loved Pharos for it's difficulty, I always sighed when I got it into DF but I still went and did it, with a good group it's a fun dungeon. But now it'll be less fun as the challenge will be sucked out of it. As for AK, I know it already got nerfed, but to nerf it again...? Demon Wall isn't that hard, can get it down before bugs even spawn in some parties. I know this what MMOs do, but I just feel as if these dungeons didn't need to be made easier. They weren't difficult in the first place, apart from Pharos, but that was an enjoyable difficulty.

I find this really funny, I believe most of these players who complain about the nerf are the same players who thought SOA from FFXI was too hard.

I wonder how many people from WoW are complaining also, that probably don't complain about getting free levels when you start again on WoW.

Here is another the same people who waited for hours with their flag up in FFXI then they made it easier to find a party or made Abyss where you can level to 99 quick but nope didn't hear complains about that but all of a sudden it means something in FFXIV when they do something cracks me the hell up.

Deal with it, people work sometimes not having any time at all to get on game but enjoy the game and wanna continue sorry if they don't have your time schedule, so SE meets the demands to that crowd and you wanna whine about it.

Sorry but I agree with SE on this because then nobody gets left behind waiting to get into a party when they are using duty, I noticed a very long wait on my low level jobs trying to get into a dungeon just imagine how bad it will be when more content comes out oh because you had to beat the content super quick well that's your problems maybe you shouldn't stay up all night and burn through the game and think you are better than everyone else and game revolves around you cause it don't.

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Originally Posted by Fawkes

They all start low and are increased incrementally over time, and all require you to wipe first to get it.

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Your quote just proves my point...
Wipe once after 3 mins => 5%
Wipe once again after another 3 mins => 10%
etc... up to 25%

For primals, nothing has been said about the time frame, thus we can assume that it will be fully available the day 2.2 lanches

I guess they can make echo buff removable like in other mmo -> don't like it? don't use it
(though 99.9% of people use it)

The problem is: not everyone is skilled, no matter how many times they wipe, practice or read guides they will never be good/perfect at it. Yes i'm one of these, no matter how much i tried i could never beat Titan HM without dying for a freaking plume, i always finish the fight dead, last run i died in the last hit, i felt like Titan said: "let's taste hell together" and we both died at the same time. I don't have good reaction and i probably never will so after failing so hard on my last practice group i moved on and never looked back, i had an easier time with Garuda EX and so far i'm holding my breath to try Titan EX or do the relic quest for my subclass until the echo buff is out.

I can tell many people are like me, they will never be able to play or have fun with some content because the wall is in their own skills so i approve the changes.

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Originally Posted by Evil_Betox

Sorry if i'm not badass like you.

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Some people, they can't appreciate anyone that did not get gold in Odin

Eventhough I'm a new player, I'm really disappointed about this. Sofar I haven't been challenged AT ALL in the game, and I'm sad to hear that I will be going through dumbed down endgame content... I was really looking forward to how challenging & good the endgame content was, especially coming from the WildStar beta test, where even the solo leveling process was satisfyingly challenging. This change makes me sad...

It's fine with me. I'm really sick of queuing up for Titan HM and wiping on it 4-5 times then having everyone quit because two people can't dodge.

If you can't duck an aoe in a fight, why can you duck it in another fight? An aoe is still an aoe round/linear/square or whatever. "The truth is elsewhere"
None of your arguments are relevant... I really love when you make me say things I did not...it's kinda getting boring tho but yeah, go on. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Evil_Betox

The problem is: not everyone is skilled

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Here is exhibit A of why SE is being smart by doing these changes. All you hardcores really need to get your heads out of your behinds and actually think about people that dont have the time to devote to the game but still want some FUN. For you hardcores it is all about the CHALLENGE, for casuals it is all about the FUN. sure everyone likes a little challenge from content, but when you run titan ex and 1 person makes a mistake, it then is not a challenge to you but a massive headache. No fun is to be had when stuff like that happens.

tldr:
Everyone enjoys different things, casuals=FUN, hardcore=Challenge. I approve of these changes because i will now get to clear these with my FC mates instead of the elitist "KILL EXP ONLY" parties that 90% of the time belittle and berate anyone who makes one mistake.

If I'm not finishing content fast enough to get to it before it's nerfed, which would mean SE's generating content faster than I'm completing it, I really can't say I'd personally complain if the older stuff is a little quicker to get through just so I'm not falling behind quite so quickly.

I would assume the 'hardcore' would consider it an insult to their reputation if they didn't manage to consume the latest patch content before the 3 month wait for the next patch is over, and 3 months seems rather generous to me, and I neither consider myself hardcore nor do I have a tremendous amount of time to play each day.

I'm not disappointed. So what that they are nerfing the OLD content. They arent nerfing the new stuff.

If you are on your first relic for AK, you don't have the best gear. You aren't farming HM primals, Castrum isn't farmable like it was and AK is a road block. Your options are limited aside from farming WP like crazy. Though many HC players would say to farm WP, this simply isn't fun. If a game isn't fun, people don't play. "Nerfing" AK makes it so newer players can have opportunities without having to mindlessly grind. It's encouraging people to take on the challenges that come later.

For FATES, the truth is that people don't do them as much. Certainly some FATES are still farmed but many are not. This makes some FATES to hard because of less people. This isn't nerfing FATES, it's balancing them so people can do them.

For Sirius, people just don't do this dungeon. I get why. It's more difficult than other dungeons with no payoff. There is no incentive. Scaling it back isn't nerfing so much as it is balancing it and making it a more viable option to play alongside HM dungeons.

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Originally Posted by Balfreid

Old content gets nerfed, new content gets released. Welcome to the current cycle of MMORPGs. This has been happening for years.

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I'm kinda hoping for the Primals they do what they did in Coil, with the Echo buff. Keep it if you can't clear it without help, click it off for the old challenge.

I'm disappointed in the model where only the newest content is worth doing and old content is worthless. I wonder if in 2 years we'll have 50 dungeons no one ever goes to.

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Originally Posted by Sylve

I'm kinda hoping for the Primals they do what they did in Coil, with the Echo buff. Keep it if you can't clear it without help, click it off for the old challenge.

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primals echo only pop if you wipe: do not wipe and you have old challenge (or exit/restart if in a premade)

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Originally Posted by Evil_Betox

I can tell many people are like me, they will never be able to play or have fun with some content because the wall is in their own skills so i approve the changes.

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I don't get this mentality. Who is forcing you to do end game content?

You can't even clear Titan HM yet you expect a free ride for everything beyond it. Why not just remove all the challenge and give everyone free gear.

According to this forums, RNG, farming tomes and wiping on a boss because you're bad are all timesinks, so lets just nerf everything and hand out free epics because that's all what this game is about!

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Originally Posted by Nils1986

If you can't duck an aoe in a fight, why can you duck it in another fight? An aoe is still an aoe round/linear/square or whatever. "The truth is elsewhere"
None of your arguments are relevant... I really love when you make me say things I did not...it's kinda getting boring tho but yeah, go on. :rolleyes:

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Different AoE give you different time to go out
Some AoE give you a lot of time, other AoE you need to be out before it show up on your screen.

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Originally Posted by Taika

I'm disappointed in the model where only the newest content is worth doing and old content is worthless. I wonder if in 2 years we'll have 50 dungeons no one ever goes to.

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Why should a dungeon that give you the newest tomes not be worth to do it? Content that gave you philo tomes give you with 2.2 myth tomes. Content that gave you myth tomes give you the new tomes.

I used to be a hardcore MMO raider. Now due to work and just getting older, the amount of time I have to play is much less (from a few hours a night to a few hours a week). I'd love to be in Coil, but instead I'm still gearing up for primal fights. Frankly though, I'm afraid to join any primal, hard dungeon, or CT groups. I see too much complaining about people not knowing the fights inside and out before they first step in. By all means, leave content at its original difficulty. But if you do, don't complain when players are first getting to the content and are learning the fights. If you are going to complain, let the content be nerfed so people don't rage quit out of frustration.

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Originally Posted by Taika

I'm disappointed in the model where only the newest content is worth doing and old content is worthless. I wonder if in 2 years we'll have 50 dungeons no one ever goes to.

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Probably. That's the way it is in every MMO. At least FF14 caps you to the dungeon level range so it is useful for leveling. I really wish MMOs would auto-scale mob/boss levels so you could pick a level to do the dungeon (like LOTRO skirmishes). Tie loot tables to the dungeon level (and maybe some other parameters), and then you have dungeon content that never becomes worthless.

people need to stop using the word "hardcore" in reference to ffxiv players, there is absolutely nothing at all hardcore about this game.

back on topic tho, what so wrong with end game players have a little bit of content exclusive to them? literally everything else in this game is casualized and care bear. why does all content have to be available to everyone regardless of skill? HM/EX primals and coil are literally the only end game content available and now going to reduced to 3 turns in coil and one primal. does SE really feel like this is enough endgame content to sustain a lasting community? i certainly hope not

I guess the untold truth is: Some fear that they can no longer sell runs...

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Originally Posted by KupoNuts

I don't get this mentality. Who is forcing you to do end game content?

You can't even clear Titan HM yet you expect a free ride for everything beyond it. Why not just remove all the challenge and give everyone free gear.

According to this forums, RNG, farming tomes and wiping on a boss because you're bad are all timesinks, so lets just nerf everything and hand out free epics because that's all what this game is about!

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If you can't clear Titan HM, it's possible you're just not good at that sort of content (quickly reacting to scripted events, possibly memorizing them) or have poor latency. Whatever the issue is, SE is introducing the echo buff to certain fights so that people don't stay stuck on them indefinitely. Many of these players will likely just get stuck on a later fight, but in the mean time they'll have something else to do. As far as gear progression goes, the uncapped myth does a lot more to gear people up quickly than the echo buff does.

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Originally Posted by Axlle10

Here is exhibit A of why SE is being smart by doing these changes. All you hardcores really need to get your heads out of your behinds and actually think about people that dont have the time to devote to the game but still want some FUN. For you hardcores it is all about the CHALLENGE, for casuals it is all about the FUN. sure everyone likes a little challenge from content, but when you run titan ex and 1 person makes a mistake, it then is not a challenge to you but a massive headache. No fun is to be had when stuff like that happens.

tldr:
Everyone enjoys different things, casuals=FUN, hardcore=Challenge. I approve of these changes because i will now get to clear these with my FC mates instead of the elitist "KILL EXP ONLY" parties that 90% of the time belittle and berate anyone who makes one mistake.

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I completely agree with you.

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Originally Posted by KupoNuts

I don't get this mentality. Who is forcing you to do end game content?

You can't even clear Titan HM yet you expect a free ride for everything beyond it. Why not just remove all the challenge and give everyone free gear.

According to this forums, RNG, farming tomes and wiping on a boss because you're bad are all timesinks, so lets just nerf everything and hand out free epics because that's all what this game is about!

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No one is forcing me... because i'm not playing these endgame content by personal choice. Before 2.2 is out i'm basically lvling subclasses and getting ilvl70 gear for them.

To be honest before the live letter and the 2.2 patch notes i wasn't even considering doing EX primals or Coil. I never demanded these changes, i just accepted that i'm bad and i would probably never beat some of the content, i never asked for nerfs or buffs (be my guest and check my posts history).

But since they are doing these changes i'm very happy because some content i wasn't planning to beat (for lack of personal skill) will finally be a bit more easier for me to beat and i'll probably sub for 3 more months when my subscription expire next month because i'll have much more content to play.

It seems my last post made quite a noise, sorry if i offended anyone here, i just posted my personal experience with the current game content.

I would consider myself more casual with this game, I don't complain about a "lack of content" nor do I clear everything in 5 seconds, I've only done T1 and T2, and only ran T4 two times without clearing it, and haven't cleared Titan Extreme Mode yet because of bad groups.

I like to have fun, but I also like a good challenge as well, just because I would say I'm more casual with end game, I wouldn't say that I want to be carried.

First off, let me say, I don't think that you are trying to brag about e-peen status here, I don't know why everyone is jumping at you assuming that's what this is about... quite honestly, it's really annoying seeing you repeat yourself over and over people people don't listen and ignore what you're saying. That being said, I don't think you're really explaining yourself properly, and when you do, I think you also need to realize that some people just aren't going to see things the same way you do.

AK: I remember the Demon Wall thing with the Bloodlappers, that I think is pretty stupid. However, I understand why they would remove them, as AK is part of the relic quest, and removing the Bloodlappers makes the fight more straight forward for people that can't burn the wall fast enough. Hell, there are people that still get hit with the floor that are overgeared for this when I get it in DR... and don't tell me that they're trying to get positional hits in... demon wall has no rear for you to poke your rod in.

Pharos Sirius: I've tanked and healed this, both far over geared for the fight. Tanking it is pretty simple, but healing for it in the final boss can be pretty tricky, especially when your DPS don't like to dodge her charging attack... I think most people can agree with this nerf, but I kind of liked the challenge, maybe they can make a Hard Mode version of this dungeon in the future and bring back the old mechanics plus more.

FATEs: With FATEs not being as popular with gaining EXP for leveling up anymore, they need to make FATEs easier for those who might have to solo them. I can't really speak about this though, I don't know the full details of it.

Extreme Primals: The only reason this content is given The Echo is because of Leviathan Extreme in the new patch, in order to let people easily access newer content, they needed to do this, plus... there are a lot of groups that just can't get passed it. I haven't even cleared Titan myself, and it's not even my own fault... I get groups that don't know what they're doing. Hell, I'm trying to help my cousin clear Garuda Extreme, and I can't even get a clear for him. The other tank doesn't trade the spiny plume properly, and we fuck up usually. I even surprisingly got multiple groups together for the Triangle Method and told DPS countless times that they have to DODGE SLIPSTREAM FROM CHIRADA and the casters NEVER seem to listen to this. As for Titan Extreme, the DPS wont bait landslide properly for the final phase, or they get hit by bombs at the end of the heart phase if DPS isn't high enough to burst through it before it goes off...

Point is, nerfs suck for wanting to be able to go back and experience content how it used to be, and I had a rant about this before, where I was begging for The Echo to be removable, or else I was going to be mad... and it is removable... so I'm 100% happy with it. I may not be able to do something now, but I'd like to be able to challenge myself in the future, and we are given this option to remove the buff if we want a challenge, as for the other content... it's all under item level 50 dungeon stuff, and honestly, I'm not too concerned with it.

tl;dr coming from someone more casual, I don't like nerfs, but agree with the ones taking place, and as long as The Echo is removable (which it is) I don't care.

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Originally Posted by alhandra

people need to stop using the word "hardcore" in reference to ffxiv players, there is absolutely nothing at all hardcore about this game.

back on topic tho, what so wrong with end game players have a little bit of content exclusive to them? literally everything else in this game is casualized and care bear. why does all content have to be available to everyone regardless of skill? HM/EX primals and coil are literally the only end game content available and now going to reduced to 3 turns in coil and one primal. does SE really feel like this is enough endgame content to sustain a lasting community? i certainly hope not

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I agree with your point, but I don't think many other people will. Any time people talk about gating certain content for end game players only people will just call you an elitist trying to be a special snowflake or whatever the term is these days.

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Originally Posted by Heavell

to OP, prepare for casual players rants and nerfs for zodiac weapon quest in future patch.

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It seems like the implied assumption is that anyone who hasn't been playing since the relaunch is a casual player. i purchased the game recently, which means i haven't been playing it for that long and didn't get in on the first wave of players. Currently it can be hard to find a good team for dungeons since i don't find many people at lower levels in game. Most times the PF will be FATE groups or notes saying something to the effect of "no noobs/only join if u cleared". So anything that makes it so that i can clear content with the available players at my level is fine with me. i'd prefer having more teaming options over nerfs, but whatever works...

This is not a game for hardcore players.

It's meant for casual players.

If you are a hardcore player and want to live in a hardcore environment where the rules stay in favour of hardcore people such as yourself, you need to consider a different game, one that is designed around being hardcore.

Mind you, to me, a hard core game would mean one where you can not memorize attack patterns as they are always changing and adapting. Not sure there are any games like that anymore...

(My heart sank when I read Yoshi wanted this to be about memorizing attack patterns...)

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Originally Posted by Prototype909

I agree with your point, but I don't think many other people will. Any time people talk about gating certain content for end game players only people will just call you an elitist trying to be a special snowflake or whatever the term is these days.

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So true, you would think it's the casuals who should be called the special snowflakes. With how they want the content adapted to them, while a hardcore player adapts to the content.

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Currently it can be hard to find a good team for dungeons since i don't find many people at lower levels in game.

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That was hard before also. At least some places.

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Originally Posted by Asiaine

Mind you, to me, a hard core game would mean one where you can not memorize attack patterns as they are always changing and adapting. Not sure there are any games like that anymore...

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imagine if you couldnt predict a landslide or mountain buster 0.o THAT would be true use of the Extreme title

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

As an exemple, I could talk about Titan Ex. I once thought I would be proud to defeat him. I now know I'll use the 5 wipes bonus to get him done once for all and never look back at that poorly designed fight (no fight should be THAT lag-dependent). I will have no sense of achievement. Even if I manage to beat him with no buff and no overgear. I just hate him too much to bother about him.

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I would give you 10 likes if I could. I feel the same way about Titan. I could care less about that fight, I just want it done and over with.

Do you REALLY think the Echo buff will alow you to make titan EX in easy mode? lol

Echo makes the fight easier and faster, but it won't allow you to ignore mechanics. -You'll still wipe if you kill spinny or take wrong tanking positions, against garuda.
-You'll still wipe if you eat super bomb or bait landslide badly, against titan.
-You'll still wipe if your healer like to stand middle of the arena with searing wind, or if tanks can't trade the tanking, against ifrit.

So many overdone reactions from this. Just be happy with the new contents. Why so unhappy about more peoples getting allagan? It'll be the new standard like how DL was the standard in 2.1, and you get better stuff from the new content.

All i'm seeing here are complains "oh noooess gotta work for my stuff again now, where are the videos!?".
It's a game, reseting the tables is good too for the fun.

Yes they are losing a lot of casual players that\\'s why they are nerfing it. I am not a casual players but even the guys that came from 11 in my FC are getting sick and tired of the same loot drops from coil runs and the day they don\\'t run it, it drops. Currently since I\\'ve been running coil I have seen tons of am loot the same drg pants,top and hands drop. By removing the weekly lockout it gives casual players a chance to try the new expansion also new challenges with zodiac weapons coil 2 and might I add some ppl still have a hard time dodging in Titan ex so it\\'s not really becoming easy you still need to know how to pull for Garuda ex and not kill the spiny plumes :)

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Originally Posted by Axlle10

Everyone enjoys different things, casuals=FUN, hardcore=Challenge.

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Very poor way to label. The correct way is Casuals = Fun, Hardcore = Fun. The problem with how you did it is you label Hardcore players as not having fun, when in fact, the challenge is what MAKES it fun. If there's no challenge, it's the same as watching TV. ie Fun is subjective. Everyone plays a game to have fun, your fun isn't the same as everyone elses.

I personally have more fun when I can shred through a boss fight with only a little strategy than the challenge of a super tough fight that needs to be redone a hundred times before getting my timing just right. I mean, if I am max level and earned some nice gear, shouldn't I be rewarded by having content easier than being under geared? If people want a challenge then they can fight in their underpants.

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Originally Posted by Uriahnool

I personally have more fun when I can shred through a boss fight with only a little strategy than the challenge of a super tough fight that needs to be redone a hundred times before getting my timing just right. I mean, if I am max level and earned some nice gear, shouldn't I be rewarded by having content easier than being under geared? If people want a challenge then they can fight in their underpants.

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A hundred times? Really good players can pick up new mechanics in 1-2 tries. I don't expect that of most people. But a hundred(yes, I know, not literally 100 tries)? For someone like me, something involving little skill/strategy/whatever, is boring, it's like sitting on the couch and watching commercials.

So the response to your last line would be something like "If people want easy content, they can go play easier games"

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Originally Posted by Uriahnool

I personally have more fun when I can shred through a boss fight with only a little strategy than the challenge of a super tough fight that needs to be redone a hundred times before getting my timing just right. I mean, if I am max level and earned some nice gear, shouldn't I be rewarded by having content easier than being under geared? If people want a challenge then they can fight in their underpants.

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yeah 'fight in their underpants' elitists and hardcore players moaning about echo buffs and nerfs here is an idea do coil turn 6-9 get new gear and when u go back to ex primals lower your gear because guess what the fight is going to get easier if you get better gear regardless try lowering your gear if you want the challenge stop crying about how new players are going to be helped to catch up to where current hardcore players are
99% of the gamers are casual you really think SE is going to say screw the 99% im going to make stuff ONLY for those that are hardcore elitist
as for AK dude the bees overgeared players burn the wall so bees make no diff if new players get help the same thing will still happen the wall will be crushed by those helping the only way it would be a challenge is lowering your ilvl or being new and the party being completely full of new ppl

quit acting like a 2 year old in a candy shop that cant have candy lmao there is ways to make things difficult your just too dumb to find them so you cry on forums about how they are making stuff easy

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Originally Posted by ispano

Very poor way to label. The correct way is Casuals = Fun, Hardcore = Fun. The problem with how you did it is you label Hardcore players as not having fun, when in fact, the challenge is what MAKES it fun. If there's no challenge, it's the same as watching TV. ie Fun is subjective. Everyone plays a game to have fun, your fun isn't the same as everyone elses.

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There is a difference here though. A hardcore player 'will' push through something, even if they don't enjoy it, to achieve a goal. They may enjoy a good challenge, but they're there to achieve.

A 'casual' will likely just go elsewhere for enjoyment. Everything is about the fun. If it isn't fun, it's not worth doing.

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Originally Posted by DragonFist

-snip-

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Casual doesn't make a player bad. Casual doesn't mean said player isn't skilled. Casual doesn't mean said player doesn't want a challenge. Same if you reverse it with Hardcore players.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrAM

There is a difference here though. A hardcore player 'will' push through something, even if they don't enjoy it, to achieve a goal. They may enjoy a good challenge, but they're there to achieve.

A 'casual' will likely just go elsewhere for enjoyment. Everything is about the fun. If it isn't fun, it's not worth doing.

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Not necessarily. Part of it is how you look at what a Hardcore person is, and if you can put yourself, and I mean TRULY put yourself, in their mindset. From my experience, not many people can do that. I would not label someone who forces themselves to push through something they don't enjoy, Hardcore.

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Originally Posted by ispano

A hundred times? Really good players can pick up new mechanics in 1-2 tries. I don't expect that of most people. But a hundred(yes, I know, not literally 100 tries)? For someone like me, something involving little skill/strategy/whatever, is boring, it's like sitting on the couch and watching commercials.

So the response to your last line would be something like "If people want easy content, they can go play easier games"

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There are no easier games. This is the pinnacle... maybe unicorn dash or something.. fruit ninja?
The people complaining the most about these "nerfs" are people who won't even see them.