Why no one tanks...

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Originally Posted by Kazamoto

Had my tank jimmies rustled for the first time yesterday in a CT run.

My tank is i76, not great, not bad. (For CT anyway)

We get to King Behemoth, someone claims Iron Giant, which I generally do, since people canthe only tank left is me.

Rather than let me get hate and drag it back to the wall, everyone spams their head off, provo

Then people ask what happens, and the other healer in the party that pulled Behe starts flaming me for not learning how to tank, i should just uninstall, yada yada yada.

Spent the rest of that run doing pretty much nothing.

I'll gladly tank anything you want, but please for the love of god, dont go all out if a mob is running around loose.

Spent the rest of the day on my Brd going pew-pew without a care in the world.

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im ilvl85 & agree 100%,i had to tank KB in lag twice out of last 3

times,guess what,3rd time was a wipe afew times,its annoying when no1 calls MT & then ilvl 50 tank tries to mt bosses

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Originally Posted by CrystalRainbow

What I find more interest isn't that there isn't people tanking.

It's that when I do CT recently my wife as a warrior does /a Anyone want to MT?
None of the tanks volunteer.

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I think CT just makes most players lazy. Repetitive farming makes me want to just click towers.

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Originally Posted by Ogrumz

Tanks are treated horribly in this game. So many self entitled kids that run in and face pull everything, you pick it all up, use all your defensive cooldowns and die cause the DPS is auto attacking.

Then said DPS complains for 30 minutes about the tank being bad, and gets you kicked from the party.

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Let me share my story with you,

First time tanking in CT. Been in CT many times but not as a tank. I know what to do, but it's different when you're actually trying to do it. The other tank I was with pulled the valefor (I forget their actual names...you know..the two dragons and elementals right at the beginning) to the "wrong" spot. I put that in quotes because the placement wasn't horrible. Mostly wiped the Alliance.

Here's why the alliance wiped...snowball effect:

1. Whitemages refused to readjust their position to this different tanking style. So they were hit with everything because the dragon was facing them. Keep in mind, the tail was still facing away from the alliance so it was all completely doable because all the whms had to do was sidestep to a different spot.

2. DPS die because they also didn't move.

3. Tank die because whms are dead.

4. When the tank died, I provoked and tried to pull to the normal spot to salvage this fight. But because of where I was initially standing, the dragon turned and immediately used tail drive on 70% of the Alliance.

5. I die.

6. Fortunately, the remaining members alive killed it.

7. The main tank gets endless hate and foul talk for the next 10 minutes because of one little slip up. Somehow I was included in it and I wasn't even main tank.

The whms could have easily just re-positioned themselves and everything would have been fine. Instead, we get "Oh it's one of these runs" "Wow your tanks suck A" "F*cking idiots" etc etc.

Rest of the CT run? we're the team killing everything and "winning" the Atomos and Vassago fights. Main tanked Behemoth and Acheron. Nobody says a word.

In fact, team C kept screwing up their Atomos fight. But nobody bothered them because it was THEIR party member. me: "Nobody's going to talk down to them right? Just us? Our tank made a simple mistake and the world ends. This guy screws up the Atomos fight twice and nobody says a word?"


No reply. They continued to support that team, "It's okay, no big deal"

They stopped hate talking us because we led the rest of the run. We just had a small, simple little error that could have easily been avoided had our whms just MOVED instead of saying "that's not where you do it, so we're not moving."

Not even a "sorry for blowing up for no reason."

Not even a "GOOD BYE!" That's one of my worst pet peeves. Just say {Take Care.} Anything. anything to acknowledge that yes, we're people too. Not just some NPC. Be polite for Hydaelyn's sake. You take time out of your precious run to hate talk, but you can't press four buttons to say {Take Care.} all it is is, T, A, K, tab, {Take Care.} wow, that was tough. I swear, some people must develop some kind of psychological disorder with the amount of abuse they get from disgusting gamers like this.

There are a lot of people in this game that have really bad attitudes. I mean really. There's no respect or politeness. At least in the American crowd. And sometimes I really wish I could speak Japanese because something tells me they're really polite over on their servers.

This community has too many ragers, or as people say "elitist" but I don't think that's the right word. They're just "gimme gimme now" and "I only one shot things, I'd rather take the 30 minute penalty than die once." We're human beings. Every run can't be perfect. People mess up sometimes. Don't play an MMO if you expect everything to always go smooth. Elitist isn't the right term. It's more like arrogant. "Feeling entitled" also works.

So I say, don't be afraid to tank. Do some research if it's an important fight, see what you should do, then go in and give it a shot. Let everyone know ahead of time that you're new and that you did some research. That leaves no room for them to be complete jerks. After all, it's just a game.

Something my father always told me (but with nicer words in quotes...:rolleyes: ):

There's two types of "jerks" in this world, Terminal, and Situational. We're all situational "jerks" But some people are terminal. Meaning they'll always be that way and there's nothing you can do about it. So all you can do is laugh at them and move along.

^
This guy gets it.

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Why are we all from Hyperion?

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This Gal? also gets it.
v

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Originally Posted by Ogrumz

Tanks are treated horribly in this game. So many self entitled kids that run in and face pull everything, you pick it all up, use all your defensive cooldowns and die cause the DPS is auto attacking.

Then said DPS complains for 30 minutes about the tank being bad, and gets you kicked from the party.

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Tanks can be treated horribly in this game, but also Healers. In CT, I will not play either one, though I am confident in my ability as a tank. As a healer? Not so much.

If you made a mistake, it's understandable.

If you make a mistake and everyone pretty much sends you threats and insults, it's not so understandable.

P.P.S. Agreed with Rex.

P.P.P.S. I do not care for discourteous people, especially when they give you hell for a mistake. It RUINS morale.

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Thanks, Kaz XD

Also, one can only assume from this thread alone that 81% of courteous and understanding people are from Hyperion.

But there is a possible chance that this statement is not verified.

I'm not entirely sure on other DPS but I tend to be quite forgiving on tanks as a BLM. If I pull hate cos a tank has a slip up I just use manawall or manaward and its fine.

The way it should be, is that if the tank makes a mistake (which everyone does) the other classes can use an "oh shi*!" Skill resulting in a minor hiccup and not a wipe. Again I know BLM have good defensive skills as a DPS not sure about others.

Something that happened today in Haukke Manor (SM):
I was playing WHM and as always I'd made preperations before even entering (read the guides, watched the videos).
Here's how it went:

Every single pack the Tank didn't bother to gain Hate at all (This couldn't be down to him being "New" because he would always use Hate generation on the bosses to make sure they stuck to him) so as soon as I use Cure, every mob from the pack would beeline, I'd use my KB to get rid of the first and Sleep the second, only to find The DPS kept breaking my CC.
This pattern was constant so throughout the packs, I (The WHM) Had to kite/pseudo tank.

Didn't get angry, didn't pass any comment really, just buckled down and got on with it but I can absolutely understand why people would get upset at this, you have DPS breaking CC, Tanks not tanking and putting the healer at constant risk. Now Imagine if this was Haukke Manor HM? We would have wiped on the packs because a WHM isn't capable of Pseudo tanking HM.

^

I just hit 50 yesterday on my WM and I leveled in dungeons the whole way. I found that a lot of tanks are new and simply don't know how to hold aggro yet. I would just always be polite and ask them to flash/overpower and also to turn on their tank stance (post 30 for Warrior and post 40 for Paladin). If they can put up with me forgetting to turn off cleric stance at times, I can help them out by letting them know to flash/overpower a few times at the beginning of the fight and to watch the enemy list in case something peels off.

Most of the time, I would get a "Oh, sorry.. still learning" and I'd normally get a couple comms at the end for being nice about it.

I am new to MMOs, this is the first MMO I have played, so for me I was very unaware of a lot of concepts that most MMO players are well aware of already.

I've never had any complaints really from anyone when playing as a tank luckily, I try to be nice to everyone in my party and not make anyone feel bad if they feel they have done something wrong, if a DPS does something wrong, or a healer dies and doesn't heal me, as long as they recognize mistakes I will reassure them, as I expect they would for mistakes I make as well.

As a healer, I've had an arrogant tank who thought he was the shit and blamed me for them dying because they didn't pull enemies off me, and I couldn't heal them fast enough.

I've also had a tank who would use Convalescence before a pull and randomly cast cure on themselves for no reason, or flash when no enemies were around in Brayflox, I got so mad as to how they could play so bad, but I never said anything to them rude.

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Originally Posted by LeonBlade

I've also had a tank who would use Convalescence before a pull and randomly cast cure on themselves for no reason.

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I recall it was effective as a PLD tank in FFXI to cure yourself, this is why I think you see new players trying to do this. It's useless in FFXIV because rage of halone combo(single target) and flash(multi target) is superior for enmity generation.

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Originally Posted by Leira_Raine

Also, one can only assume from this thread alone that 81% of courteous and understanding people are from Hyperion.

But there is a possible chance that this statement is not verified.

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I'm sorry to say that some of the people raging in the other parties in the run I used as an example were from Hyperion. :/ In fact one of them was someone that I had known since beta of 1.0. He stopped once he realized I was one of the tanks. But it certainly showed another side of him. Sad.

Then again, you did say 81%. So you could still be right...but that means that I must be running into the other 19% a lot. Lol


Btw, Ms. (or mr.) Talia Renton, You'll be getting a linkshell invite when I'm out of work later. XD

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Originally Posted by Rex

Let me share my story with you...

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I'm so sorry that you had to deal with that CT party, I have had very similar situations in CT. People are assholes, and love to blame other people, but never can blame themselves for their own mistakes.

I remember being in Garuda HM after a wipe and I was losing enmity to her and I told DPS to hold off until I got agro, then someone said I didn't have shield oath on, I immediately apologized and said it was 100% my fault and I was sorry, still people ended up leaving anyways, I felt really bad about what I said to the DPS because of my own stupid mistake after a wipe.

I just reached 300 commendations recently, which makes me happy, not because of bragging rights, but because people felt that I was a good player. I'm glad that I can make people's experiences enjoyable, over having assholes in my place.

I hope that you have better runs in the future.

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Originally Posted by Ogrumz

Tanks are treated horribly in this game. So many self entitled kids that run in and face pull everything, you pick it all up, use all your defensive cooldowns and die cause the DPS is auto attacking.

Then said DPS complains for 30 minutes about the tank being bad, and gets you kicked from the party.

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I loath this comment im a tank and I do well by my fc I like to tank. and no its not mind numbingly boring Elazu your are incorrect

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Originally Posted by Pseudopsia

I recall it was effective as a PLD tank in FFXI to cure yourself, this is why I think you see new players trying to do this. It's useless in FFXIV because rage of halone combo(single target) and flash(multi target) is superior for enmity generation.

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Ah, I see. I don't think that this person was like this, as they were almost at max health. I think they were on PS3, so they were likely just new to the game. I just don't see how you could get to Brayflox as a tank and still not know what to do very well. I hope they learn from their mistakes and improve, and I just pray for them when they get to level 50 to not be harassed by other players.

I couldn't fit all your text and mine Kazamoto but lol I do miss the joy toy to lol and yeah your right that in dungeons the whole group is moving so no need for pulls from the dps. Though I still do it in fates lol. I do miss some of the game mechanics of 11. But all good fun lol.

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Originally Posted by Arkista

Last I checked Tanking in FFXI was way more fun than XIV.

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Lol love how you quoted me saying snip when I know I didn't say that and idk I never tanked in 11 I was 8 different jobs not one of them a tank. ^.^

Life as a tank is fairly easy.

If the DPS is harassing you, kick or vote abandon. Let them remember the feeling of DPS queue.

I enjoy tanking the most out of all roles.

What is this thread about again? I do tank.

It is true though, a tank can make one mistake and there is always that one person in the party that thinks you are a "noob" because you made a mistake and they are immature so they have a hissy fit. You just have to shrug that nonsense off. Or bitch right back at them.

DD die all the time, do you hear the tanks complaining because they did? Not from my experience.

A mistake made by a tank is more obvious than any other roles, that's all there is to it.

If DPS pull intentionally, I tend to just stand there. Only once the healers heal will I pick up the mobs, because I don't want my healer dying because my DPS are either stupid, impatient or just plain rude. As tank, I am usually the one who knows what to kill first and why, how to position things so AOE's don't hit my squishier brethren, I am paying attention to pats (if any) as well as knowing how to do surgical pulls so that my healer can DPS as well. I see the DRG pulling everything a lot in the 30-40 range of dungeons, where they seem to think that because they could get away with it in copperbell mines they can do it in Stone Vigil.

I also have to take into account my healer might be new, generally inexperienced with the class or even common sense-defyingly stupid - in which case some pulls I HAVE to make as painless as possible for them to get us through it and I can't do this with DPS doing my pulls for me, it's also rude. Why? Because Sometimes I am distracted, maybe somebody is talking to me and I need 30 seconds of my attention elsewhere. Maybe I've just spilt my drink all over my keyboard and need to quickly wipe it down before it seeps in. Things happen, and while I would love to be able to AFK for pulls in these situations, in many cases the DPS doing the pulling don't even understand enmity well enough to keep multiple targets off the healers. Solo mob? I don't care if the WHM pulls that. It's not going to kill anybody as long as 3/4 of the group are there.

This turned into a longer rant than I had intended

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Originally Posted by yondaimeflash

Lol love how you quoted me saying snip when I know I didn't say that and idk I never tanked in 11 I was 8 different jobs not one of them a tank. ^.^

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People that quote others with "snip" in the quote are not attacking them. They have to do that so that they do not go over the word limit. The person didn't mean any harm.

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Originally Posted by LoLo

People that quote others with "snip" in the quote are not attacking them. They have to do that so that they do not go over the word limit. The person didn't mean any harm.

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ah ok cool my bad then ^^

Watch all the bad "alt" tanks CT is full of.... that is why I don't tank and many other good tanks don't.

Constantly pulling crap off of us. Constantly turning baddies the wrong way. "I GOT IRON GIANT"... followed by fail tank chasing giant around... or fail tank holding it in the middle of the raid. "I GOT KB"... followed by fail tank standing in everything... no cooldowns. THen there is the tank just pulled KB time to medica II healers that place is loaded with. I could go on all day about the stupid we deal with in there.

Doesn't help that Tanks and healers have shorter queues so dps that suck at tank/healing join that queue and make everything worse for everyone.

For whatever reason SE decided to make FFXIV tanks very weak. Plds and War have very little control over if they live or not. No mater how good you are there is no making up for bad dps or bad healers.

I love tanking, most people hate the responsibility. Parties are cruel to tanks who fail.

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Originally Posted by Ogrumz

Tanks are treated horribly in this game. So many self entitled kids that run in and face pull everything, you pick it all up, use all your defensive cooldowns and die cause the DPS is auto attacking.

Then said DPS complains for 30 minutes about the tank being bad, and gets you kicked from the party.

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your right i did low level daily and people rip into tanks guys need be kind tell them what doing wrong end with hey we have start some were will get though it help make more tanks not scare more away

Whenever someone talks a lot of trash to tanks I look them up and most of the time they dont have a lvl 50 tank.

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Originally Posted by Kadas

If by effort, you mean *slightly* more than is required for DPS jobs, sure. It does not require more effort than healing, and it certainly amounts to no effort when compared to tanking anywhere else. You can literally tank in your sleep and still get most things done.

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Literally? Methinks you mean figuratively, unless you do actually literally tank with your forehead crashed down on the keyboard while drooling on the space bar. Hehe...

Don't know why people keep saying healing requires most effort. I can pretty much heal and watch streams at the same time from x primals to coil (except turn 5 just because death sentence).

Some DPS just can't understand that them pulling does not make the dungeon any quicker, it takes longer for a tank to then get the mobs off you and reposition them where all DPS can do most damage and is definitely not more efficient.

Started out as a WHM. Capped that, then started leveling a Bard, and now my MRD is almost 50. I have gotten more praise and happy people from being a tank than I got in the other roles. I have been flamed as a healer more than other roles. I still heal because I like the role. Tanking, honestly, has never given me any grief. I have screwed up as a tank, and I admit it, and work to fix it. People have never said anything mean to me, even when I was really botching a pull.

The only tanks I have ever seen get grief are the really bad tanks. I think most people appreciate tanks because 30minutes waiting for a dungeon is sad. But, tanks can also be huge jerks (like when they go in-progress dungeon fishing).

That having been said, I am one of those tanks who plays like a healer; who tries to tank the best way possible to help my healer have a smoother run. I fix peoples' mistakes. I never brag about it. And I am always polite (until someone is particularly a jerk to me). I disagree with this thread's tone from experience.

Tanks always complain about everything. So they're getting treated horribly.

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Originally Posted by Evangela

Tanks always complain about everything. So they're getting treated horribly.

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Apples always complain. So they're getting made into pies.

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Originally Posted by Kazamoto

Then people ask what happens, and the other healer in the party that pulled Behe starts flaming me for not learning how to tank, i should just uninstall, yada yada yada.

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They had should named it Troll Tower, because you encounter the most annoying people in there.

1 of 10 Raids in there don´t run smooth, starting from a Tailwhipe at first Trash which kills of half the Raid (80% probability)... to DD´s focusing dumb on the Bone Dragon and kill them off while Tanks spotting of the Skeletons of each other... Ragemeter full after 10 Minutes, not to mention how much BS one single person can pull off in 40-60 minutes and p*** of 23 other ppl :D

http://abload.de/img/3triplefacepalm61rv6.png

It´s always a relief, when i got the loot for the week, knowing i don´t have to go in there anymore :P

And to give something to the Topic, it´s not the tanks who get the flames, some ppl just want to flame. They see, they shoot, no matter what´s the target

Tanking can be intimidating sometimes. I usually tank in all MMOs I play and it can be quite stressful. Granted I haven't really healed much, but I'm always grateful to a good healer, they are my lifeline. DPS does need to make sure they deal damage quickly so the encounter can be over quicker and the tank doesn't take too much damage. We all play our parts in the battle and if any part of a light party dies, you do can feel the strain. That being said, it does feel like a lot is expected of a tank. You kind of become default party leader as you dictate the order of battle, or at least try. You have to keep a keen eye on the entire battlefield and ensure you get the right mobs, know which mobs to ignore, etc. To the point that walkthroughs feel mandatory for even a first pass. I haven't really gotten farther as any other role, but I do wonder do DPS and Healers feel the same way in their progression through the game?

I main an i90 Paladin, these days I only play it for FC stuff and raids.

Rest of the time I just play my i83 monk for roulettes/random groups, because I can't be bothered with people anymore. Playing DPS is relaxing and no one tries to pin blame on you when they screw up :)

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Originally Posted by Doo

I think CT just makes most players lazy. Repetitive farming makes me want to just click towers.

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noone wants to take responsibility if something fails.

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Originally Posted by Laf

noone wants to take responsibility if something fails.

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I don't mind taking responsibility. I think there's more of an issue with players that falsely blame others because they don't know the game mechanics though. I call these Fake elitists.

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Originally Posted by Kresciel

Don't know why people keep saying healing requires most effort. I can pretty much heal and watch streams at the same time from x primals to coil (except turn 5 just because death sentence).

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yeah healing cake walk

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Originally Posted by Laf

noone wants to take responsibility if something fails.

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Hate to say it but I have to agree, when I tried to give someone in here advice on what they could do better the next time around, they get super defensive and begin to throw out insults because I didn't pity them. It was clear that they need to improve in tanking, but instead they rather blame everyone else but themselves for why things went wrong.

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Originally Posted by Doo

I don't mind taking responsibility. I think there's more of an issue with players that falsely blame others because they don't know the game mechanics though. I call these Fake elitists.

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If you do not know the game mechanics while everyone else does and you fail because of that, how is pointing that out false? If they don't tell you, wont you repeat the same mistake the next go around? I rather a person tell me I'm lacking so I can improve than to go around causing my future parties headache because I am bad at my job.

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Originally Posted by Evangela

Tanks always complain about everything. So they're getting treated horribly.

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http://i.imgur.com/RlGLQAl.png