Summoners have actually ruined this game's PvP

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Originally Posted by Potatoes

http://i.minus.com/jWIqntQE8BCgu.jpg

??????????????????????????

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such dps. much skill. wow

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Originally Posted by Potatoes

http://i.minus.com/jWIqntQE8BCgu.jpg

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Seems legit.

Anyword on the nerfs? rank 30 SMNs have taken this crap to a whole new level. Can't wait for revenge. Of course most of the SMN are farming for gear for the next FOM.

I can see this being all true. z_z Last night on my scholar I noticed only the bard was after me. After successfully placing my 3 dots + Ruin + Ruin II + Energy Drain Combo. The bard started running away. Why? Because his hp was already at 50% and still decreasing. u_u [Cleric Stance Was On] Though if summoner gets a nerf, I can see everyone raging how summoner sucks now considering melee's peel spell casters. I honestly think SE needs to reconsider how spells are interrupted. It's completely bullocks that any close range melee will own your @ss.



BUT, if folks learn to spread out. Maybe Bane + Fester wouldn't be such a pain.

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Originally Posted by Cleftobismal

BUT, if folks learn to spread out. Maybe Bane + Fester wouldn't be such a pain.

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LOL, oh really? So how does a tank and melee focus on a single target .... while being spread out?

Can't do it.

Now u want dots damage + bane get nerfed so brainless dudes can sit on the same spot and eat all that crap without any problem? Why opponent summoner did only 3k damage? Maybe they did not let him free cast and spread dots around? I agree summoners are op but that was their own fault if they sit whole party in the same spot. Most important part in the arena is positioning, where u stand and how u can abuse pillars and walls.

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Originally Posted by Sunako

Now u want dots damage + bane get nerfed so brainless dudes can sit on the same spot and eat all that crap without any problem? Why opponent summoner did only 3k damage? Maybe they did not let him free cast and spread dots around? I agree summoners are op but that was their own fault if they sit whole party in the same spot. Most important part in the arena is positioning, where u stand and how u can abuse pillars and walls.

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He hasn't practiced the bloweverythingzerosetup burst, obv.
Or you know, the summoner blew him up first.

You arcanists are cute.
Massive skill. :3

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Originally Posted by x037x

LOL, oh really? So how does a tank and melee focus on a single target .... while being spread out?

Can't do it.

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Give a macro your being dotted.

Have Tank focus on peeling the caster (Summoner/healer/blm)

Go Somewhere else.


Vice Versa if your the Tank being dotted.

= = = Or = = =

Take out the summoner first if the situation permits it.


If for some reason the following above is not possible, trust your healer to esuna/leech you.

:confused::confused::confused:

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Originally Posted by Sunako

Now u want dots damage + bane get nerfed so brainless dudes can sit on the same spot and eat all that crap without any problem? Why opponent summoner did only 3k damage? Maybe they did not let him free cast and spread dots around? I agree summoners are op but that was their own fault if they sit whole party in the same spot. Most important part in the arena is positioning, where u stand and how u can abuse pillars and walls.

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I don't see anyone on this page asking for bane + dots to get nerfed. If your message is to me toots, I'm just clarifying how powerful a SMN/ARC can be and what the community typical response would be after the fact of a nerf. I've never said anything that should make you think SMN are Unstoppable. Especially after I just said:

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Originally Posted by Me

Though if summoner gets a nerf, I can see everyone raging how summoner sucks now considering melee's peel spell casters. I honestly think SE needs to reconsider how spells are interrupted. It's completely bullocks that any close range melee will own your @ss.

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"I don't see anyone on this page asking for bane + dots to get nerfed." Watch post 120 when smn is doing 25k damage. Person did not say anything but that is mainly dots + bane damage.

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Originally Posted by Sunako

"I don't see anyone on this page asking for bane + dots to get nerfed." Watch post 120 when smn is doing 25k damage. Person did not say anything but that is mainly dots + bane damage.

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I see what you did there.

Sorry for the misunderstanding then miss. <333 Without Quotes, everyone's reference gets confusing to me.


As for that picture well... I guess stupid people get killed under a minute.

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Originally Posted by Cleftobismal

As for that picture well... I guess stupid people get killed under a minute.

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looooooool...

wait is this srs

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Originally Posted by Quackley

looooooool...

wait is this srs

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:< Take a Guess.

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Originally Posted by Cleftobismal

:< Take a Guess.

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You can find quite a few clips of a summoner like Dj charging over to the other team and blowing something up in like 2 seconds before deciding someone else needs to die almost as quickly.
Even if it lives, it's followed up by just as much damage for the next 8 years, with basically zero setup from the summoner.
It doesn't even matter how geared the player is, they drop all the same.

Please, go ahead and tell me how a player, stupid or not, does anything against that?

Like I said, you arcanists are cute. :3

Your class beats literally every other class in burst, sustained damage, and utility (for a DPS).
BLM may come close in utility with sleep, but they don't also have ridiculous damage.
Well they do, but it takes time and quite a bit of hard casting, SMN doesn't really.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Quackley

Your class beats literally every other class in burst, sustained damage, and utility (for a DPS).
BLM may come close in utility with sleep, but they don't also have ridiculous damage.

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Because the SMN has a frack load of morality while the victim who dies in two seconds doesn't right?


And blackmage hurts like hell with Fire 3 + Flare + Convert + Swift Cast + Flare again. Let alone that's without thunder. And Idk what your healer does, but when I PvP I remove the debuffs. Let alone Purify completely removes all the crap you have on yourself. [Which is an All Class PvP skill]


Just FYI, we spell casters shoot garbage at a 90 degree angle. Aka just walk behind us (us as in those who are mentally challenged to left click position their character just to keep the spell up) or trick us to face away from you and Bad-ah Bing Bad-ah Boom. We cant cast crap on you, especially if your peeling us.

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Originally Posted by Quackley

Well they do, but it takes time and quite a bit of hard casting, SMN doesn't really.

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The biggest Cast Time Difference I see between skills that actually have a cast time is 1 Second.

Fire 3

3.5 Secs

Bio2. . Miasma .. Ruin . .

2.5 Secs


While their other skills are .5 to none more.

[I'm not including flare for the reason of you should be using that skill to last/one hit or rape the fool hardy melees who like to stay together]

If a BLM is failing to cast everything at an approaching melee. HE isnt using his utilities right. But lets not get to the peeling part. You can blame SE for that.

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Originally Posted by Cleftobismal

Because the SMN has a frack load of morality while the victim who dies in two seconds doesn't right?

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These are against players in i90 PVP gear.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...19#post1770919

Sauce.

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Originally Posted by Cleftobismal

Because the SMN has a frack load of morality while the victim who dies in two seconds doesn't right?

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Quackley

It doesn't even matter how geared the player is, they drop all the same.

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The summoners doing the damage themselves have said it barely matters what they're wearing (70 PvP, 90 PvE, 90 PvP, anyways) or what the target's in, it's over the top.

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Originally Posted by Quackley

The summoners doing the damage themselves have said it barely matters what they're wearing (70 PvP, 90 PvE, 90 PvP, anyways) or what the target's in, it's over the top.

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That's quite the reliable source you have there my friend.

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Originally Posted by AldricBranchais

These are against players in i90 PVP gear.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...19#post1770919

Sauce.

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From the looks of that thread its nothing but a egotistic pit full of baddies. You call this credible information?

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Originally Posted by Cleftobismal

That's quite the reliable source you have there my friend.

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From the thread:

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Originally Posted by Djlovedrop

Hi just like to keep everyone MAINLY SE updated. Still globaling people in ilvl 90 pvp gear...soooo i dont think gear is what makes summoners OP lol :D

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Dj's like one of the nicest guys on this forum, and easily counts as credible for summoners.
He's probably one of the few credible ones actually, seeing as how he actually admits summoners are pretty silly.

He's pointed it out from the beginning and other arcanists have jumped at his throat, of course he's gonna make jokes and be a little sarcastic about it now.
He thinks you guys are all ridiculous.

Because you are.

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Originally Posted by Cleftobismal

From the looks of that thread its nothing but a egotistic pit full of baddies. You call this credible information?

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Defending summoners, has attitude, calls other people baddies.
Nice one friend!

zzz

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Originally Posted by Cleftobismal

That's quite the reliable source you have there my friend.

From the looks of that thread its nothing but a egotistic pit full of baddies. You call this credible information?

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Forget about it, reason is beyond you.

http://i.imgur.com/0QmD995.gif

Oh boy, you edited your post. Okay, where do we start?

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Originally Posted by Cleftobismal

And blackmage hurts like hell with Fire 3 + Flare + Convert + Swift Cast + Flare again.

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You're really telling me someone's gonna let a BLM hardcast a flare? REAAAAAALLY?
Yes it hurts, BLMs can kill anything if you let them do so, but this also takes massive set up. Summoners don't. They can (and do) kill people very quickly with zero actual hardcasts, just things like Enkindle and Energy Drain. They're not nearly as dependent upon multiple long casts to land kills.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cleftobismal

Just FYI, we spell casters shoot garbage at a 90 degree angle. Aka just walk behind us (us as in those who are mentally challenged to left click position their character just to keep the spell up) or trick us to face away from you and Bad-ah Bing Bad-ah Boom. We cant cast crap on you, especially if your peeling us.

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If only there was an option to face people while casting.
Oh, waitaminute, there is? Both turning yourself, or just spamming FACE TARGET?
WOAH.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cleftobismal

The biggest Cast Time Difference I see between skills that actually have a cast time is 1 Second.

Fire 3

3.5 Secs

Bio2. . Miasma .. Ruin . .

2.5 Secs

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Cmon, of all things, REALLY? Ruin with a cast time?

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Ruin II
Type Spell
Acquired Level 38 Arcanist
Requires ACN, SMN, SCH
Cast Time Instant
Cooldown 2.5s
Range 25y
Description Deals unaspected damage with a potency of 80.
Additional Effect: Blind for 10s.

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Woah, that's neato, Ruin II does the same damage, has a blind, and is instant?
I'm gonna use Ruin anyways. Because it's way cooler.

Now if only summoners had lots of other strong instants, y'know?
That'd be just swell.

Wait, you're telling me they DO?
omigawd :3

I'll give you that their dots have cast time, but currently they don't ACTUALLY need them. Which is hilarious, that a class with a billion dots doesn't need them.

That, and comparing putting your dots up to a BLM who has to chain cast multiple spells to actually kill something is cute.
Yours are followed by incredibly strong instants, a BLM's is followed by more chain casting. I don't think I need to point out how much easier that is to stop.

This is all damage too, it's not even getting into the utility that is BRez, an instant, spammable aoe heavy/MS combo, a bind if you need it, a set-and-forget interrupt bot, and I'm sure there's plenty I've left out.

Finally some action in the forums.
http://media.tumblr.com/b200cf11da03...vEn1qz4rgp.gif

You let an opponent BLM free cast. You deserve to lose. I've never let go of an opportunity like that, Fire to a Firestarter AF3 hardcast Flare Fire3 Swiftcast Convert Flare. I don't care if you are 90 PvP or not or where I crit or not. You will go down, problem is such fantasy amount of cast doesn't happen even for someone who has 3.59s Flare cast.

Yes if you do the math I would only require 8.9s minimal time to make that happen where the major burst only happens within a span of 4.4s after the 8.9s prep time. Even if you don't drop the double Flare will have done too much cleave damage.

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Originally Posted by Sunako

Finally some action in the forums.
http://media.tumblr.com/b200cf11da03...vEn1qz4rgp.gif

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http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-eO8o9_rI15...he-popcorn.gif
Am I allowed to join in on the popcorn?

I'm still listed as mage, now I look like I'm up to bat for mages. Uhh, sleep is dumb, cloth sucks, voodoo magic so spooky ooo
I want it to list me as ranger, I rerolled already qq
I played a hunter in wow guys I swear (this is probably the worst thing to say). :<

Oh lord give me strength. z_z

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Originally Posted by Quackley

Oh boy, you edited your post. Okay, where do we start?

You're really telling me someone's gonna let a BLM hardcast a flare? REAAAAAALLY?
Yes it hurts, BLMs can kill anything if you let them do so, but this also takes massive set up. Summoners don't. They can (and do) kill people very quickly with zero actual hardcasts, just things like Enkindle and Energy Drain. They're not nearly as dependent upon multiple long casts to land kills.

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If your not gonna let the BLM dmg then clearly you don't need to let the Summoner do so either. ?_? And Idk about you but enkidle has a hell of a long cd and it entirely relies on the position of your pet. Your pets special move wont don't crap until it is actually stacked near/on the target.

And based off of your information, I say you always get a terrible healer. My condolences.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Quackley

If only there was an option to face people while casting.
Oh, waitaminute, there is? Both turning yourself, or just spamming FACE TARGET?
WOAH.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cleftobismal

Just FYI, we spell casters shoot garbage at a 90 degree angle. Aka just walk behind us (us as in those who are mentally challenged to left click position their character just to keep the spell up) or trick us to face away from you and Bad-ah Bing Bad-ah Boom. We cant cast crap on you, especially if your peeling us.

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http://i43.tinypic.com/vh6pfd.jpg

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Originally Posted by Quackley

Woah, that's neato, Ruin II does the same damage, has a blind, and is instant?
I'm gonna use Ruin anyways. Because it's way cooler.

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Dots + Fester + Ruin I charge + Instant Ruin II + Energy Drain . . .


Because Ruin II puts you on a Global CD anyhow while Ruin I puts you on a global CD once you start casting. z_z [That Dies Before you even shoot it]. Double damage. What does it mean?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Quackley

That, and comparing putting your dots up to a BLM who has to chain cast multiple spells to actually kill something is cute.

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Don't SMN's also chain cast mutliple spells to get their desired dmg though? z_z Where is this magic button that unleashes all their skills at once. Please Do Tell. :o

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Originally Posted by Quackley

I'll give you that their dots have cast time, but currently they don't ACTUALLY need them. Which is hilarious, that a class with a billion dots doesn't need them.

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http://i41.tinypic.com/w2ds2u.gif

Sorry for the triple post, 1,000 character limit is such a troll q_q.

I dont know why u should even try hardcast flares when u can spam fire1 and wait fire3 procs that can crit like 2k?

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Originally Posted by Cleftobismal

<facing target nonsense, hooray?>

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I'm not sure how people not knowing how to face targets is worth mentioning, but okay.
Saying "we can't cast if you walk behind us or make us face away from you" is just saying "bad players can't cast on moving targets," which while true, doesn't really mean anything when it comes to summoners being over the top.

You can literally keybind a face target button, or just macro it in to your buttons.
Or just turn better, that always works too.
There's no excuse for not landing a cast as a caster, especially with the incredibly generous latency this game has.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cleftobismal

If your not gonna let the BLM dmg then clearly you don't need to let the Summoner do so either.

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One does heavy damage while making long chains of casts. The other does heavy damage without having to cast. Tossing up Bio2 and Miasma isn't anywhere near Fire3 + multiple fireballs.

Not letting a BLM do damage is easy. You sit on it forever and ever. Not letting a SMN do damage isn't the same at all. Sprint and Miasma2 spam gets you away seeing as how melee in this game don't have reliable snares, plus you get a ridiculous amount of fun instants. BLM has scathe and the PvP abilities, and has far more setup required to do damage even after sprinting away.

Enkindle's a long CD, but having basically a guaranteed kill with it doesn't suddenly make that okay.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cleftobismal

Don't SMN's also chain cast mutliple spells to get their desired dmg though? z_z Where is this magic button that unleashes all their skills at once. Please Do Tell. :o

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It's not even close, sorry.
To keep up the massive sustained damage, yes you need those dots.
To drop one target quickly/immediately, no, you don't need them.

I really hoped someone would point out the whole "instantly" thing, cause it's hilarious that people take it seriously.
No, it's not instantly, but it comes very quickly, fast enough that there's basically no spells that can go off quick enough to counteract it. Benediction and swiftcasted stuff maybe, but the total damage SMN can pump out during their "burst" is high enough that it's not an issue.

You can just bypass the limit by clicking edit for next time.

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Originally Posted by Sunako

I dont know why u should even try hardcast flares when u can spam fire1 and wait fire3 procs that can crit like 2k?

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Fire3 doesn't quite crit 2k, but yes, this is what any decent BLM does.
That's why when people mention anything about 2 flares, it makes it giggle.

I saw once BLM critted 1.8k fire3 with lvl 70 gear so 2k is not impossible.

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Originally Posted by Quackley

One does heavy damage while making long chains of casts. The other does heavy damage without having to cast. Tossing up Bio2 and Miasma isn't anywhere near Fire3 + multiple fireballs.

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http://i41.tinypic.com/r9l53m.png

My Baby For the Second Time~


As for the comment on flare, that was just an example on how painful a BLM can be. I'm not recommending anyone to chose that ideal.


And If I post a PvP Video of my experience in PvP. Would it help you understand that summoners are Glass cannons, And how much you should really appreciate your healers? z_z We don't just run and die. We do stuff to you know. D;


Which reminds me, is it just me or why did SE bolster the cast time on leeches/esuna?

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Originally Posted by Cleftobismal

http://i41.tinypic.com/r9l53m.png

My Baby For the Second Time~


As for the comment on flare, that was just an example on how painful a BLM can be. I'm not recommending anyone to chose that ideal.


And If I post a PvP Video of my experience in PvP. Would it help you understand that summoners are Glass cannons, And how much you should really appreciate your healers? z_z We don't just run and die. We do stuff to you know. D;

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Sure, go ahead and post a PvP video.

If Dj posting videos of him killing people in like 2 seconds (again, this is something magical called hyperbole, even though it's not that much of an exaggeration if one at all), even geared people, and arcanists completely dismiss it, why should we not do the same to your video?

And yes, the Leeches icon is cute.
It stops fester, sorta.

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Originally Posted by Djlovedrop

Funny cause I blow people up without dots or fester. I use all instant cast abilities and global people. Also, I have had 3 melee dps on me trying to "train me" and i globaled all three. Balanced is the correct word i guess. Oh and im still killing ilvl 90 bards and warriors without fester...

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But who needs that anyways :3

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Originally Posted by Quackley

Sure, go ahead and post a PvP video.

If Dj posting videos of him killing people in like 2 seconds (again, this is something magical called hyperbole, even though it's not that much of an exaggeration if one at all), even geared people, and arcanists completely dismiss it, why should we not do the same to your video?

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I'm a main scholar... I sometimes wonder if you continue to debate with me as if you have sense or your just full of bullocks like your thinking gauge. u_u Give it 1.5+ hours and I will be back with a link. u_u

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Originally Posted by Quackley

But who needs that anyways :3

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What part of Glass Cannon Do You Not Understand.

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Originally Posted by Cleftobismal

I'm a main scholar... I sometimes wonder if you continue to debate with me as if you have sense or your just full of bullocks like your thinking gauge. u_u Give it 1.5+ hours and I will be back with a link. u_u
What part of Glass Cannon Do You Not Understand.

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Summoner's not really any more glass cannon than any other DPS.
Pretty much all of them are laughably easy to kill, damage in pvp is obscenely high.

That doesn't suddenly make it okay for them to kill anything right away.
If being squishy did that, BLM should be able to do the same yeah? :3
ie, let them do it all while on the move using instants

Or you know, Monk, or Dragoon, or Bard...
I'm sure that would go over well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Quackley

Summoner's not really any more glass cannon than any other DPS.
Pretty much all of them are laughably easy to kill, damage in pvp is obscenely high.

That doesn't suddenly make it okay for them to kill anything right away.
If being squishy did that, BLM should be able to do the same yeah? :3
ie, let them do it all while on the move using instants

Or you know, Monk, or Dragoon, or Bard...
I'm sure that would go over well.

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I'll have to show you otherwise in my video. u_u



Speaking of "OP", here is a sneak peek.



http://i43.tinypic.com/29wmzbk.png


Im assuming we should nerf warriors as well then yes?

BTW class adjustment is coming soon tomorrows maintenance? summoners and scholars will get nerf and every1 will be happy and nobody complain anymore. ::JOKE always somebody complain. I can see future already about this kind of posts "omfg why they nerfed x ability when y ability is op summoners are still op!"

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cleftobismal

I'll have to show you otherwise in my video. u_u



Speaking of "OP", here is a sneak peek.



http://i43.tinypic.com/29wmzbk.png


Im assuming we should nerf warriors as well then yes?

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Nope, because (like was addressed in posts a long time ago) scoreboards don't show that much when the game lacks a matchmaking system.
Gear, skill, PvP level, etc, all make huge differences. Look at the other warrior, he did 3k damage. Obviously we must buff warriors then, right?

That guy did a lot of damage, yes, but that alone doesn't mean anything.
If warriors were blowing everybody else out of the water on a consistent basis, or killing people by themselves with burst in a couple seconds, then it might be worth looking into.
But they don't actually do that.

Summoners, on the other hand, are.
And they're doing it regardless of the gear I mentioned above.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Quackley

Nope, because (like was addressed in posts a long time ago) scoreboards don't show that much when the game lacks a matchmaking system.
Gear, skill, PvP level, etc, all make huge differences. Look at the other warrior, he did 3k damage. Obviously we must buff warriors then, right?

That guy did a lot of damage, yes, but that alone doesn't mean anything.
If warriors were blowing everybody else out of the water on a consistent basis, or killing people by themselves with burst in a couple seconds, then it might be worth looking into.
But they don't actually do that. Summoners, on the other hand, are.

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Despite I said its a sneak peek of the video, you blatantly spat out excuses as if Im never going to be able to prove jack with you. My my you need to take a chill pill. q_q You'll get your answers soon child. Be patient.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sunako

BTW class adjustment is coming soon tomorrows maintenance? summoners and scholars will get nerf and every1 will be happy and nobody complain anymore. ::JOKE always somebody complain. I can see future already about this kind of posts "omfg why they nerfed x ability when y ability is op summoners are still op!"

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Oh so true z_z

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cleftobismal

Despite I said its a sneak peek of the video, you blatantly spat out excuses as if Im never going to be able to prove jack with you. My my you need to take a chill pill. q_q You'll get your answers soon child. Be patient.

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I'm not sure how those are excuses, rather than just the truth of screenshots, but oky doky. :3

And yeah, people are still going to cry.
That's just the nature of PvP communities.
Nothing stands so far above everything else as summoners currently do though, so eh.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Quackley

I'm not sure how those are excuses, rather than just the truth of screenshots, but oky doky. :3

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http://i39.tinypic.com/e70vw6.jpg



Eh z_z after the fact I've told you for the third time its part of the "so called truth" your asking for.

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Originally Posted by Cleftobismal

Eh z_z after the fact I've told you for the third time its part of the "so called truth" your asking for.

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That it's part of your video? Big deal?
It's a simple screenshot with no context to it, it doesn't show anything.

If you really wanna get into it, a single video of a handful of matches won't really show much either.
You're more than welcome to show a summoner getting blown up, but the same goes for any DPS. They're all pretty much glass. Most just have significantly less cannon to them.

It's gonna show a few matches in a game without any rating systems. We won't know the gear people have, how good they are, what they have for PvP abilities, and so on.
All of those change everything dramatically.