Why is Myth gear as good as Allagan gear, or even better?

RNG Mitigation.

You know... /geesh

I don't live in my parents basement. I do have a family, own my own house, work full time, although I don't have much of a social life, I'll have to admit that.

What does that have to do with the idea that the highest level content, i.e. fc housing at this point, should drop the highest level gear?

Is this notion so far out in left field that people can't understand it's general concept? It seems like a pretty simple idea.

I understand that rng sucks in coil. I understand that the 1 week lock out makes the rng problem even worse. Why pretend that you don't understand that the highest level content should drop the highest level gear?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Marzapan

You know... /geesh

I don't live in my parents basement. I do have a family, own my own house, work full time, although I don't have much of a social life, I'll have to admit that.

What does that have to do with the idea that the highest level content, i.e. fc housing at this point, should drop the highest level gear?

Is this notion so far out in left field that people can't understand it's general concept? It seems like a pretty simple idea.

I understand that rng sucks in coil. I understand that the 1 week lock out makes the rng problem even worse. Why pretend that you don't understand that the highest level content should drop the highest level gear?

---

The only thing I can possibly think of at this point is to allow for future development.

Because, yeah, it's weird that you can get half BIS doing dungeon run spamming.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Marzapan

Why pretend that you don't understand that the highest level content should drop the highest level gear?

---

Why should it?

Why should function be the primary or only motivator to challenging the most difficult content?

"Because nobody will do it otherwise!" Doesn't seem to be a substantial argument. You mean to say that the content isn't enjoyable enough to sustain someone without the appealing to performance greed? The content's difficulty alone should draw those of like mind to the content you are seeking to best. Better yet, that some Myth tomes are BiS allows those who prefer to be better prepared before approaching the hardest content in the game to be able to do so.

I know I don't plan on tackling Coil until I'm setting on multiple myth pieces and my +1 Relic. But I will want to do Coil because I want to face a challenge, for the sake of the challenge.

There is absolutely no functional reason why the hardest challenge should provide the best loot, except to provide a method of function behind the bragging rights of individuals who have achieved it above others - as if their skill in execution was not satisfying enough to sate their pride.

So I call that behavior into question. No, I do not believe all BiS should only drop from the hardest bosses. Some should be obtainable for the casual audience in order to encourage them to challenge the content for the sake of challenge, and to entice them to complete their BiS set.

A carrot to chase is much more tempting to chase if you're allowed to nibble on it once in a while.

You're still going on about this Marzapan? Guess what, the highest level content DOES drop the highest level gear, in terms of weapons. The highest level weapons, only obtainable via completion of the Coil. That right there satisfies your whole complaint.

Oh yeah, I know you are upset and whining about the armor and accessories. But you really need to get over it. It's not changing, and thank goodness. There needs to be alternate ways to obtain comparable armor and accessories. That being said, There are some obvious benefits to being able to run Coil. Most jobs can only obtain two i90 rings by running coil in order to obtain that second i90 ring, well.. it was that way until they added the EX Primals in 2.1. Still, the EX Primals, along with Coil are some of the most challenging content in the game right now, so you shouldn't and likely don't have complaints about i90 accessories dropping from them.

You're personal lifestyle has nothing to do with anything, unless of course someone's personally attacking you and making presumptions about said personal life. I'm not, I don't care about that. It really doesn't matter, at all.

I understand how you feel, I really do. And I do believe the hardest content should drop the best items. Well, it does. Like I said, the weapons from Coil are the best in the game and only obtainable by completing all of the Coil. However, there needs to be other options for people who can't run that particular instance, to obtain comparatively similar gear. There shouldn't just be 1 way to obtain good armor and accessories. While it takes a bit longer to obtain a full set of Myth gear imo, unless of course you just have terrible luck with Coil drop rates, it is a welcomed alternative.

Not to mention that coil gear can be used, for the most part, my multiple Jobs whereas Myth gear is restricted to just 1 particular Job, with exceptions to the accessories.

@ Hyrist:
No, I do not believe all BiS should only drop from the hardest bosses. Some should be obtainable for the casual audience in order to encourage them to challenge the content for the sake of challenge, and to entice them to complete their BiS set.

I can agree with this.

@ Ecks007:
I only go on about it because I find it fun, and other people keep going on about it. Besides, I'm at work. If I were at home, I'd be playing!

I still think More difficult content should give better rewards for being more difficult.

But we'll see how this plays out in the future. It might jsut be this level of gearing that's weird.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rabbitzero

I also don't get why people are so crazy about mthy/allagan/whatever, since it's pretty clear there will be even better gear down the road, and once there is, do people really want to run old content just to be able to do what comes next?

---

I JUST BEAT TITAN IN LvL 1 GEAR said no legit player ever.

You do the content that gears you for your the next challenge. If you're skilled enough to get the best weapon in the game with wearing a snowman suit, I'd say you're the best player in the history of MMO's. But let's be frank, it isn't going to happen legitly. (using Titan as an example, I know relics aren't the best weapon in game atm)

This thread is all cool and all but honestly, when something with more complex content comes out that doesn't reward you for face-rolling through dungeons my 4 year old niece could clear with one arm, I'm out. A large reason that I play MMO's is a little for prestige, a little for hard content, and a lot for building friendships while doing crazy stuff in large groups. Nothing I have done in this game feels even remotely close to "epic" I'll tell you now that I used to log into MMO's for the content. In this game I only log in for my friends. When they leave (which is starting to happen, my regular coils group has already has to replace several people) I go with them. I play for the camaraderie. When every little thing you do with your group is slowly whittled away by poor RNG and the proverbial loot pinata that is MYTH...well I don't see how any hardcore gamer could play this for very long. That is what it is.

I think myth gear is fine. It does a pretty good job of making everything in the game "easier" on a weekly scale without directly nerfing an encounter. Twintania hasn't been changed since the first nerf, but she has certainly gotten easier as the weeks go by and people grab more myth gear/actually get an allagan upgrade.

Some people can't complete coil turns, and for them, certain items will never be available - hell, the best weapons aren't available except to people who complete turn 5. But every week coil gets "easier" so that even without being nerfed, more and more players are able to complete it. The better players were able to complete it sooner, but the content becomes more accessible over time. I think it's great that more people can experience the content. Coil was elite for the first month or two of 2.0 -- now it's a lot more common for people to PUG the turns. There's even PUG groups forming for T5 recently and some of them will even down it. That's awesome.

Casual game is casual.

I havent gotten loot from coil in 5 weeks, if myth wasnt around i'd have quit by now because id be behind my coil group in gear and I would inevitably get kicked out

I can relate to that feeling. I MT for my coil group and we got exactly 3-4 i90 tank drops in probably 6 weeks of coil. I got the pants and the shield, so without myth I would have had to tank Twin with about(estimating... 5600 hp?) Even if I'm a better player than a luckier tank, one that had good luck and could sit at 6400-6500 hp would have done a better job than me.

Mythology should only come from coil. You get your 300 or 450 a week or whatever to help cut down on RNG screwing you and you still have to do real-ish content to get high level stuff. It's too late to do it now, but maybe with the next set of content.

I love how "hardcore" content locust descend down onto a MMO, burn through all the content, start whining and leave.

Only to do it all over again in another MMO. Guys if FF14 is too hard for you or too easy for you or just not the correct fit. Then leave. STOP complaining about it in forums. I still remember how satisfied I was with GW2 horizontal progression. Loved it. The those darn so called "hardcore" content locust had to descend down.

Now not only has GW2 driven away all "Hardcore" content locust after FotM is boring, but they also drove away all those that loved the horitzontal vanity only progression.

I left after 3 weeks after FotM was implemented. It was a painful process in which you grinded like no tomorrow for ugly looking gear that basically invalidated every other content in the game, because frankly who does dungeons for 2nd tier loot, especially if 1st gear is so hard to get that it is unattainable or extremely hard to obtain. It is human nature 101. No one wants to grind for 2nd rate, if they can help it. And if they know that 1st rate gear is forever out of their grip. This being a game, if the top gear is unattainable, then people will spend their money on something else.

But I know it is also human nature for people that can do such top tier content and get top gear (the have(s)) to also barred or lockout others from getting said top gear (so they remain special). Just look at real life. Look at USA as the prime example. Unlike real life, you guys do not have the money to get the companies to cater to you only. So unless, like in real life, you come out the money to ensure the company develop for you only. I guess you got to content with the rest of us majority.

Quote:

---

Mythology should only come from coil.

---

That's possibly the worst idea I've seen on these forums. The sheer loss of subs they'd get from doing that is mind boggling. The lack of things for people to do in 2.0 would have sunk this game within a month. Why exactly is it even remotely a good idea?

Myth is there so people don't have to do coil to gear in i90. If anything, coil shouldn't give myth at all, there are enough decent rewards from it as it stands. The myth is just there so we don't feel ripped off when we don't get loot.

The answer is simple it's a business move. We have people who are dedicated to this game because they have more free time and they can achieve coil gear. Now in order to keep casual players feeling like they are not far behind the hard core players they give them gear as well. Other wise a casual won't feel like he can ever catch up because he doesn't have 12 hours a day to play. And if he feels like he can't catch up he will quit. And quiting means no sub's and no sub's means no money for square.

Because coil does not drop enough loot to be a reliable way of gearing up

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by blowfin

That's possibly the worst idea I've seen on these forums. The sheer loss of subs they'd get from doing that is mind boggling. The lack of things for people to do in 2.0 would have sunk this game within a month. Why exactly is it even remotely a good idea?

Myth is there so people don't have to do coil to gear in i90. If anything, coil shouldn't give myth at all, there are enough decent rewards from it as it stands. The myth is just there so we don't feel ripped off when we don't get loot.

---

Mythology can really come from anywhere, I guess, but to get the strongest stuff you should have to do something other than 4 man speed runs. It's kind of a similar situation to 1.0's out of control melds where you could get crazy items without setting foot outside of the city. I'm not really sure the game would have died without the "grind WP and AK for 3 hours a week" factor that it had pre-2.1.

Having such easily accessible myth gear devalues darklight and crystal tower gear, too, which kind of sucks.

Quote:

---

I'm not really sure the game would have died without the "grind WP and AK for 3 hours a week" factor that it had pre-2.1.

---

Because a huge amount of players would have had nothing to do beyond mindlessly spamming CM. That got old in about 2 weeks.

Farming Myth was only half of the gearing equation in 2.0, to have the best setup you needed to run Coil AND farm Myth. Simply farming myth wouldn't put you at BiS for any class, by design. Take BRD for example, there was no way you were achieving BiS in 2.0 without finishing T5, T2 and T4 drops are also part of a BiS build.

In 2.1 the best weapons in the game come from a dungeon, and the rewards from the EX primals are frequently BiS.

Not sure what more you want apart from that? As it stands, unless you're clearing the hardest content regularly (T5/EX Primals), you're not going to be optimal. Also, that gear isn't actually required for anything but the hardest content, so this whole point of discussion is pretty vapid.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stryker12

The answer is simple it's a business move. We have people who are dedicated to this game because they have more free time and they can achieve coil gear. Now in order to keep casual players feeling like they are not far behind the hard core players they give them gear as well. Other wise a casual won't feel like he can ever catch up because he doesn't have 12 hours a day to play. And if he feels like he can't catch up he will quit. And quiting means no sub's and no sub's means no money for square.

---

Exactly this. There are quite a few players who can't or aren't interested in doing coil. If there was nothing comparable for them to achieve by different ways, why would they play? Hardcores would say, "then they shouldn't be playing anyway." But SE disagrees. They want to continue selling games and subs to these people. Like it or not, SE is a business, and they want to sell to the broadest number of customers possible. And that is their choice to make.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Brises

Exactly this. There are quite a few players who can't or aren't interested in doing coil. If there was nothing comparable for them to achieve by different ways, why would they play? Hardcores would say, "then they shouldn't be playing anyway." But SE disagrees. They want to continue selling games and subs to these people. Like it or not, SE is a business, and they want to sell to the broadest number of customers possible. And that is their choice to make.

---

This hits it straight on the nail. For reasons unbounded by logical many people cannot accept that. Oh I am sure people can dream up extremely logically sounding arguments that sound logical and all that. But nothing that hold any water if one views the argument from all sides and all angles without any preconceived notions.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DoctorMog

Alternative gearing routes.

Nobody wants to do just coil for BiS gear once a week.

Also, Myth gear can be obtained without doing endgame dungeons so casuals can gear up.

Best to have a few options for gearing up instead of a single path.

---

Would it not be better to put also crafted gear to the ilevel90 list? It would also be a alternative gearing route, casuals don't need to do endgame dungeons for it and crafters would have something to do again.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DoctorMog

Alternative gearing routes.

Nobody wants to do just coil for BiS gear once a week.

Also, Myth gear can be obtained without doing endgame dungeons so casuals can gear up.

Best to have a few options for gearing up instead of a single path.

---

Gear up for what? If you're not raiding then why do you need to gear up at all? Also even if that's true its completely assinine that as a scholar, there is only one single item in turns 1-4 that's actually best in slot, for everything else myth gear is better.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by homunyan

Gear up for what? If you're not raiding then why do you need to gear up at all? Also even if that's true its completely assinine that as a scholar, there is only one single item in turns 1-4 that's actually best in slot, for everything else myth gear is better.

---

How about gearing up for fun? I don't do Coil at the moment, so do I need ilvl 90? No. Do I want ilvl 90 because it looks cool? Yes.
Is it anyone's business why I want to gear up? No.

Coils up to turn 4 < Titan Ex so I don't know what the heck you guys are smokin but it's some good shit, can I haz some ? Since the release of the game pretty much every class need to do a mix of gear between allagan and myth, so, point of the thread ?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Felis

Would it not be better to put also crafted gear to the ilevel90 list? It would also be a alternative gearing route, casuals don't need to do endgame dungeons for it and crafters would have something to do again.

---

that would just doom the current events and give one or more reasons to buy gil.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sygmaelle

Coils up to turn 4 < Titan Ex so I don't know what the heck you guys are smokin but it's some good shit, can I haz some ? Since the release of the game pretty much every class need to do a mix of gear between allagan and myth, so, point of the thread ?

---

I find turn 1 and 2 easier than Titan HM XD as the only insta kill mechanic is Rot which can be bypassed with enrage tactic. So the allowance for a mistake is greater than Titan HM.

Turn 1 and 2 can be learnt and beaten easily. So thats the potential of 4 drops in one run. Myth pieces would take 4 weeks.

One change I'd like to see with Coil is to add a boss encounter to turn 3 and move some, if not all the armor drops from Twintania to that turn. As it makes it, imo, pretty unfair that for certain jobs a large part of their drops are on Twintania whereas others can gear up easier on turns one, two and four.

I'm still confused. highest level gear still drops from highest level content. Pretty sure that's all she wrote. This was pre 2.1, and phasing it out post 2.1 sounds even more silly. Like so, it's scaled appropriately.

System is fine, all is well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by homunyan

Gear up for what? If you're not raiding then why do you need to gear up at all? Also even if that's true its completely assinine that as a scholar, there is only one single item in turns 1-4 that's actually best in slot, for everything else myth gear is better.

---

Gearing up helps with more than just raiding. It makes getting myth each week much more enjoyable as well. When I first started running WP/AK with my Warrior, keeping Aggro and staying alive was difficult at times. Now that I have my Relic and some myth/the rest DL, I can cap my Myth quickly and then do what I really enjoy, which is leveling alt classes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sygmaelle

Coils up to turn 4 < Titan Ex so I don't know what the heck you guys are smokin but it's some good shit, can I haz some ? Since the release of the game pretty much every class need to do a mix of gear between allagan and myth, so, point of the thread ?

---

Point of the thread is that I think it's kind of lame that the most difficult dungeon in the game doesn't drop the best gear.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Brannigan

Mythology can really come from anywhere, I guess, but to get the strongest stuff you should have to do something other than 4 man speed runs. It's kind of a similar situation to 1.0's out of control melds where you could get crazy items without setting foot outside of the city. I'm not really sure the game would have died without the "grind WP and AK for 3 hours a week" factor that it had pre-2.1.

Having such easily accessible myth gear devalues darklight and crystal tower gear, too, which kind of sucks.

---

To cap Myth each week, you have to:

CT: 50
HLDR x 5 350-450
WP run x 2 (Depending on what you got in the DR)

That's way more time than you spent in BC for the week and this person doesn't even have enough Myth to buy one single piece (unless they buy accessories first). If RNG is in your favor, you could do BC once and end up with 2 months or more worth of Myth equivalent or better gear. Also, DL and CT gear are not devalued because using it helps the Myth grind. The more DL pieces you have, the better you do at your job. It takes what? 10 weeks or more grinding for myth every week to get full myth armor? You don't think that time is better spent in Darklight/CT gear?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Marzapan

Point of the thread is that I think it's kind of lame that the most difficult dungeon in the game doesn't drop the best gear.

---

It does drop the best gear, you can't have the perfect stat balance with only Myth or Allagan. It's a "play the whole content and feel rewarded as you should be" kind of thing :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Thunderz

think of the casuals guys!

the casuals!!

guys!!!

---

http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/1654/dgcs.jpg