To all those ANTI loot lockout people I say this.

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Originally Posted by Reyki

do u know that it's impossible to be full geared in a day with RNG and a proper lockout ?
that if u want to gear ur main job and ur alts.

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How so? Also, yeah I totally wasn't just exaggerating when I said "a day". Obviously it would take longer than a f---ing day...

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Originally Posted by Reyki

do u know that it's impossible to be full geared in a day with RNG and a proper lockout ?

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If there was no lockout our FC would probably be fully geared within a week or two, and we're not even that hardcore. I think turns 1-4 take us on average 40 minutes, so lets say we had a free weekend and played for 5 hours. That would mean 5-6 pieces of loot per person in the raid. We usually raid twice a week, but with no lockout I could see us adding a third night, how long would it take everyone to fully gear up their mains at that rate?

@ Rightchaus sorry i misunderstood , i was talking about Allagan gear only AND NOT myth . Weekly Myth gear shouldn't and musn't be changed / but myth gear should be removed or looted in another dungeon with BcoB lockout condition change.

@Taban , i don't want a total lockout removal , but loot lock out per boss per raid per job per time interval under one week ^^'.

Basically this game has a feature (The armoury system) that is being horribly used.

The system has, as of now, one advantage; it allows you to clear the usual "Obligatory" content just once for all your classes.

The drawbacks however come in the form that the usual lockouts that are present in many mmos (as people keep repeating over and over and over again) affect your entire game experience.
Complete a locked piece of content with one class and all of them are locked, in any other game it would mean that completing it with one character it would lock your entire account out of that content for a week and the only games I've seen such a system is in crappy F2P mmos that allow you to pay to remove that lockout.

This means that The usual lockouts can NOT be applied to this game, at least, not the way they are being applied now.

They can also keep ignoring us, but everyone involved in the FFXIV project knows exactly what that leads to.

By the time you're at iLvl 55, you can do your weekly CT attempt (multiple times if you're in the group of players who enjoy running the content and helping others), while also working on Philo and Myth tomes. If CT had no loot lockouts, the iLvl 55 requirement would change the dynamic to "Why get iLvl 70 when I can just go from i55 to i80 by grinding CT?"

if anything this can potentially save you time/tomes on darklight gear; in the event you get a piece for the class/job you're working on that week, there's a chance that it'll be for a slot you didn't buy Darklight for yet. Even if it IS for a slot you already have Darklight for, then it'll still be an improvement. It's not meant to negate the need for i70 gear altogether, and it shouldn't. The game isn't even 6 months old, Darklight shouldn't be cut out of the progression chain just yet...

The thing with the lockouts is. Most people who want the lockouts removed, don't want to gear out ASAP. They just want to be able to run BCB as much as possible, gear or no gear.

E.g. My FC has two groups on turn 5, and a bunch of people stuck on turn 2. We would love to be able to form new groups and go back into turn 1 or turn 2 with other people and help them clear it, but we can't.

So when our group gets to turn 5 and people are shouting "Turn 2" etc, there is nothing we can do to help.

They should just replace the lockouts with gear lockouts on the treasure chests in BCB.

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Originally Posted by Seig345

By the time you're at iLvl 55, you can do your weekly CT attempt (multiple times if you're in the group of players who enjoy running the content and helping others), while also working on Philo and Myth tomes. If CT had no loot lockouts, the iLvl 55 requirement would change the dynamic to "Why get iLvl 70 when I can just go from i55 to i80 by grinding CT?"

if anything this can potentially save you time/tomes on darklight gear; in the event you get a piece for the class/job you're working on that week, there's a chance that it'll be for a slot you didn't buy Darklight for yet. Even if it IS for a slot you already have Darklight for, then it'll still be an improvement. It's not meant to negate the need for i70 gear altogether, and it shouldn't. The game isn't even 6 months old, Darklight shouldn't be cut out of the progression chain just yet...

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Simple change the ilvl55 to ilvl70.

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Originally Posted by gintoki88

I somewhat agree, also this lockout stuff and myth tome cap mechanics feels more like along the borderlines of a F2P model of a mmo that is riddled with caps and lock outs.
They should find another way to make it hard to obtain all the good stuff instead of a lock outs/caps

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People have mention myth caps, I don't want to go page to page to quote people who talked about removing myth caps. So, I'll quote first one I see.

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Originally Posted by Ryios

The thing with the lockouts is. Most people who want the lockouts removed, don't want to gear out ASAP. They just want to be able to run BCB as much as possible, gear or no gear.

E.g. My FC has two groups on turn 5, and a bunch of people stuck on turn 2. We would love to be able to form new groups and go back into turn 1 or turn 2 with other people and help them clear it, but we can't.

So when our group gets to turn 5 and people are shouting "Turn 2" etc, there is nothing we can do to help.

They should just replace the lockouts with gear lockouts on the treasure chests in BCB.

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that might be the reason why. its currently the highest tier raid in the game. kinda ruins it if people are getting carried through it daily

So if it's so obvious and everything. Why can nobody actually explain what the issue is with someone else clearing all content and being bored? Wouldn't that be his problem?

Seriously, everyone always goes "but zomg people would clear everything", but I've never seen anyone actually explain why that actually is an argument.

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Originally Posted by Arkista

Simple change the ilvl55 to ilvl70.

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Why? The dungeon's balanced for i55+. Sure, there are players who are already geared out i70 or higher, but there's no need to rob those who haven't gotten there yet of the chance to enjoy the dungeon from a lower ilvl and therefore a higher challenge.

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Originally Posted by Freakiie

So if it's so obvious and everything. Why can nobody actually explain what the issue is with someone else clearing all content and being bored? Wouldn't that be his problem?

Seriously, everyone always goes "but zomg people would clear everything", but I've never seen anyone actually explain why that actually is an argument.

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because they will be the ones who come here whining about there's nothing to do in the game.

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Originally Posted by Ri_ri

The irony.

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Oh my, aren't you just so profound and insightful? So tell me, which one of these terrible ideas are you in support of? No lockouts? No GCD? Both?

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Originally Posted by Ryios

The thing with the lockouts is. Most people who want the lockouts removed, don't want to gear out ASAP. They just want to be able to run BCB as much as possible, gear or no gear.

[...]They should just replace the lockouts with gear lockouts on the treasure chests in BCB.

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that's it ^^.


ps : i use to play in some mmo with under 5% loot per boss , even under 1% :)

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Originally Posted by Freakiie

So if it's so obvious and everything. Why can nobody actually explain what the issue is with someone else clearing all content and being bored? Wouldn't that be his problem?

Seriously, everyone always goes "but zomg people would clear everything", but I've never seen anyone actually explain why that actually is an argument.

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+1.
Everyone pays a monthly sub. What we decide to do with our play time should be left up to us, Not other players telling us how the game should be played. If I don't want to do this content or that content that's my choice and when I run out of stuff to do I'll deal with the consequences.

I think it comes down to jealousy honestly. Some people think its not fair that others can play more than them, And can get all the best gear in the game. Regardless if the game is online or offline, Someone somewhere is going to be better than you and can play more than you. Not referring to you freakiie.

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Originally Posted by Axidrain

because they will be the ones who come here whining about there's nothing to do in the game.

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So again. Why would that be your problem?

And how is there no whining on the forums now? I don't know, but what exactly would be the difference?

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Originally Posted by Axidrain

because they will be the ones who come here whining about there's nothing to do in the game.

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That's where you come in and be the hero that this forum needs.

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Originally Posted by Arkista

+1.
Everyone pays a monthly sub. What we decide to do with our play time should be left up to us, Not other players telling us how the game should be played. If I don't want to do this content or that content that's my choice and when I run out of stuff to do I'll deal with the consequences.

I think it comes down to jealousy honestly. Some people think its not fair that others can play more than them, And can get all the best gear in the game. Regardless if the game is online or offline, Someone somewhere is going to be better than you and can play more than you. Not referring to you freakiie.

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The longevity of the game has to be considered. If people can just power through all new content in just a few days (or probably less), do you think that really benefits the future of this game? It has nothing to do with "jealousy". That is an absolutely absurd argument, and like most arguments on these forums, based on zero evidence.

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Originally Posted by literally

Oh my, aren't you just so profound and insightful? So tell me, which one of these terrible ideas are you in support of? No lockouts? No GCD? Both?

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Everyone has been explaining their reasoning and you answered them with "rofl idiots". I'd be just repeating what they said.

But, to add, I don't like the idea of being "forced" to do something every week, to not "waste" a drop. Having people do it over and over, until they get the right drop (and they have to get it, or else the week is wasted), will burn them out faster than letting them just go and loot whatever they can, whenever they want.

If WoW LFR is any example, after a month or so it came out in Cataclysm 4.3 people there just trolled or auto-attacked until the boss is killed, because they didn't want to be there. It became an un-fun weekly chore that should be done to not waste a week. I don't want to think of the Crystal Tower as a weekly chore. If I have the time to get three pieces in the launch week, hell let me. It won't break the game. Nor someone playing all day to get the whole set. Better than having them come back frustrated with the whole thing.

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Originally Posted by Despite

These are the same players who just stand around in cities all day waiting for LFG to pop. Might as well be a lobby game at that point. I don't want to see this game go in that direction even if it means these players quit.

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But that's what mister director wants this game to be. We don't have NMs (that drops loot), we don't have a meaningful crafting system (that gives worthwhile gear), we can't even have good gear from Odin and Behemoth. Mister director himself said that he wants gear to only come from dungeons, and to get in dungeons, you queue or stand in Revenant's Toll shouting.

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Originally Posted by Freakiie

So if it's so obvious and everything. Why can nobody actually explain what the issue is with someone else clearing all content and being bored? Wouldn't that be his problem?

Seriously, everyone always goes "but zomg people would clear everything", but I've never seen anyone actually explain why that actually is an argument.

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Because many of those players will come to the forums and whine potentially causing sqenix to make it an even easier loot pinata.
Suck it up and deal. Back in the good ole days you were lucky to get more than one piece of tier gear per week.
These are the same players who just stand around in cities all day waiting for LFG to pop. Might as well be a lobby game at that point. I don't want to see this game go in that direction even if it means these players quit.

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Originally Posted by Despite

Because many of those players will come to the forums and whine potentially causing sqenix to make it an even easier loot pinata.
Suck it up and deal. Back in the good ole days you were lucky to get more than one piece of tier gear per week.
These are the same players who just stand around in cities all day waiting for LFG to pop. Might as well be a lobby game at that point. I don't want to see this game go in that direction even if it means these players quit.

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Yes, because there's no whining on the forum right now. Got ya!

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Originally Posted by Freakiie

Yes, because there's no whining on the forum right now. Got ya!

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i could use with less whine threads.

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Originally Posted by Freakiie

Yes, because there's no whining on the forum right now. Got ya!

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Which means they should spend the extra time/work/money just to change what people are whining about on the forums. I copy.

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Originally Posted by Axidrain

i could use with less whine threads.

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So whining about whiners doesn't that contribute more to the problem? Or do you somehow think your whine will stop others whine or even reduce it?

Such an evil forum cycle.

I read an article about f2p vs subs that said people will spam a game (even take off work) for the first month of its life until all content is exhausted and then move on to another game if there's nothing left to keep them busy.

I think that concept captures the attitude we see here with players rushing to the end as fast as possible, skipping anything that doesn't help them get to that endpoint, and then complaining that there isn't more to put them ahead of everyone else.

To a person with this mindset, I can see how lockouts would be frustrating. The developers seek to directly counter players who want to burn all the content as quickly as possible.

So why would they do this? IMO, they must see this kind of activity as harmful to their game in a meta sense: that it does damage to the community at large and not just to the small minority of players who perpetrate this activity. Otherwise, if it affected only a small amount of players, they wouldn't bother.

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Originally Posted by Seig345

Which means they should spend the extra time/work/money just to change what people are whining about on the forums. I copy.

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Because people won't always find something to whine about.

The CT loot lockout basically destroys Crystal Tower as a content fixture. By week 3 of patch 2.1 I'm going to be back to farming Wanderer's Palace for myth and philo tomes. How exciting!

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Originally Posted by Doo

So whining about whiners doesn't that contribute more to the problem? Or do you somehow think your whine will stop others whine or even reduce it?

Such an evil forum cycle.

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oh boy. okay ill just make it simple for u. im just saying that removing lockouts will do nothing to solve this problem. if anything it'll probably make things worse. or we could always make some noise and have SE switch the lockouts with a % drop from bosses eh? go at it old school

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Originally Posted by Axidrain

snip

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i'd prefer that over the current system

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Originally Posted by Freakiie

Because people won't always find something to whine about.

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Not the point. One method there's whining, the other method costs more money due to wasted man hours, and there's whining. Why bother throwing away money and wasting time?

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Originally Posted by KaiserFire

I read an article about f2p vs subs that said people will spam a game (even take off work) for the first month of its life until all content is exhausted and then move on to another game if there's nothing left to keep them busy.

I think that concept captures the attitude we see here with players rushing to the end as fast as possible, skipping anything that doesn't help them get to that endpoint, and then complaining that there isn't more to put them ahead of everyone else.

To a person with this mindset, I can see how lockouts would be frustrating. The developers seek to directly counter players who want to burn all the content as quickly as possible.

So why would they do this? IMO, they must see this kind of activity as harmful to their game in a meta sense: that it does damage to the community at large and not just to the small minority of players who perpetrate this activity. Otherwise, if it affected only a small amount of players, they wouldn't bother.

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You do realize your playing Final Fantasy XIV A Realm Reborn 2.0? This is a remake not a new MMO......

SE new what they were doing when they remade this game. I didn't play 1.0 but from talking to some people they could have added a lot of stuff that was in 1.0.

I love how everyone cries that games are too grindy and you need to grind all week to progress. same people then cry even more when something limits the amount they need to grind and say the point of an MMO is the grind.

Is this setup the best? no, but really beyond changing it to one roll per job, it is about as good as we are going to see likely. be happy you can do the content multiple time a week, they could have put a 1week lockout on top of only 1 loot drop. But CT gear is ilv80 and is not even useful to many peoples mains and if your geared enough that its the only upgrade you can get you should be in coil getting ilv90 anyways.

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Originally Posted by Freakiie

So if it's so obvious and everything. Why can nobody actually explain what the issue is with someone else clearing all content and being bored? Wouldn't that be his problem?

Seriously, everyone always goes "but zomg people would clear everything", but I've never seen anyone actually explain why that actually is an argument.

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because it's not the case and they know it. they are making an argument over something that is not the case. in 1.0 the exact system was in place for av and cc that i promote putting in place for the higher end content until they get enough content in the game to justify a long lockout like coil has currently. in 1.0 you did not have people wearing darklight for every class even multiple months after release and there were groups that ran it 10hours+ a day.

their argument was completely disproven by this very game previous to arr's relaunch. it's a perfect example of a strawman argument when their false claims are knocked down so easily.

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Originally Posted by Arkista

You do realize your playing Final Fantasy XIV A Realm Reborn 2.0? This is a remake not a new MMO......

SE new what they were doing when they remade this game. I didn't play 1.0 but from talking to some people they could have added a lot of stuff that was in 1.0.

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Remake or new mmo, his point still stands. People acted the same, taking off work, grinding the hell out of the game in the first week, then not playing as much. Honestly I consider a realm reborn a new mmo, there are more differences between it and 1.0 than things in common.

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Originally Posted by Arkista

You do realize your playing Final Fantasy XIV A Realm Reborn 2.0? This is a remake not a new MMO......

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It may be a remake, but from a development standpoint the only things that carried through were concept and art design. Everything was remodeled, recoded, redone in 1/3 the time of a normal MMO development cycle, not to mention all of the things that 1.0 didn't have at all.

That excuse doesn't really work when the amount of work they had to redo was equivalent to making a brand new game.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

completely incorrect. all character progress over the last 2 years carried over.

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From a development standpoint. I realize levels and stuff carried over, but that's the player standpoint.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

yes, they did a ton of work to get the game redone, but a bunch of it was wasted on new systems people dislike over the previous system. that was wasted development time that could have been used adding content.

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Doesn't matter, it's in the past and can't be changed. The fact remains they essentially made a brand new game in 1/3 of the typical dev time allowed for a game of this type. Some corners had to be cut, otherwise 2.0 wouldn't have released until late 2014 or early 2015.

On top of just developing the game, they had to spend time developing a way to convert database entries from 1.0 to 2.0, it wasn't just a copy/paste operation.

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Originally Posted by Djeserit

It may be a remake, but from a development standpoint the only things that carried through were concept and art design. Everything was remodeled, recoded, redone in 1/3 the time of a normal MMO development cycle, not to mention all of the things that 1.0 didn't have at all.

That excuse doesn't really work when the amount of work they had to redo was equivalent to making a brand new game.

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completely incorrect. all character progress over the last 2 years carried over. that is unless i am mistaken and i didn't really have all 50 battle, all 50 crafting, and all 50 gathering with all of my gear i was able to get over the previous 2 years.

yes, they did a ton of work to get the game redone, but a bunch of it was wasted on new systems people dislike over the previous system. that was wasted development time that could have been used adding content.

It's honestly a bunch of things and has more to do with how ARR is structured as a whole rather than just the lockout's fault, primarily it's the lack of paths of progression for your character once you've hit your weekly Coil, CT runs and myth caps.

As bad as the RNG was in 1.0, at least you could still run the content and get something out of it with only a 15 min lockout between runs due to more artificial content limiting bad server code that's still a thing. Sure the droprates for Darklight the best gear back then were really awful like seriously lower than 1%, but you could at least get something else from the dungeons that ranged from bad to decent to good and you could also sell that extra gear on the markets for decent profit.

Plus there was always that expectation of maybe finally getting lucky, only for your hopes to be destroyed each time but in the end it also encouraged you to run the content again and you had no limitations doing that aside from the small 15 minute wait. With Coil's lockout you can't even rechallenge the content and even with two guaranteed ilv90 drops per turn except turn 3, there's still no guarantee you'll see drops for your class for weeks, with CT you only get one iLV80 item a week and sure you can still go in and help your LS and FC buddies get their drop, or run it just for fun with random people just like running Cape Westwind for fun might be a thing for some I guess.

There was also the fact that the best gear wasn't just limited to one or two dungeons, it was scattered in different pieces of content and you had alternatives and some sidegrades, some pieces were in AV/CC, some were in Primals, some others were in Hamlet, some were crafted with materia, some were in Skirmish, some were in your GC which needed seals to be farmed, some were in Beastmen Strongholds, some in high level leves, some were NM drops or crafted from their dropped mats.

There's also the fact the relic quest was more involved and admittedly RNG heavy in some steps which was bad, but the non RNG parts aside from maybe currency farming were a bit more challenging and took much longer to clear than just the 2 something hours it takes now with a good group.

I'll just keep it simple, but the lockout is bad. Others have voiced reasons into why.

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Originally Posted by Roris

As bad as the RNG was in 1.0, at least you could still run the content and get something out of it with only a 15 min lockout between runs due to more artificial content limiting bad server code. Sure the droprates for Darklight the best gear back then were really awful like seriously lower than 1%, but you could at least get something else from the dungeons that ranged from bad to decent to good and you could also sell that extra gear on the markets for decent profit.

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i actually liked the rng much better than the current design. at least with rng i wasn't done with the week by monday night. sure the rng has a super low rate, but not all gear was u/u so there were items to get and sell in the wards and the fact you could keep running the content and that kept your group signing in each day.

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Originally Posted by Saidosha

Others have voiced reasons into why.

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Doesn't mean their opinion is flawed, nor yours.