I'll support Hiromichi Tanaka regardless, How about You?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ostia

Only if you are a moron, because FFXI is still going today :)

---

So is AIDS.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ilean

So is AIDS.

---

In your own context, AIDs was a good thing?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zenaku

interview they ask him how did he get the role and he said because i play a lot of mmo and they think i would do a good job.

---

I'm sorry, but someone with MMO experience is exactly what this game needs. SE is completely out of touch with the market.

When FFXIV was released, we all thought, fantastic! They've gotten 8 years of experience with FFXI to take everything that just didn't work, learn from their mistakes, and make it better.

And then when you actually played it, it was like they hadn't learned a damned thing. In fact, in some areas, it felt like they had taken a step backward.

Here's Yoshi-P's experience with playing MMOs (source):

Quote:

---

Yoshida: The first one I tried was Diablo and that lasted about a year. After that I played Ultima Online for about 2 and a half years. During that same period, I also played FPSs like Unreal Tournament. I still do play FPSs actually. After that came Diablo II and the expansion pack Lord of Destruction. I played that for about a year and a half. Then I played Dark Age of Camelot for 6 years. Of course, I spent some time in EverQuest and World of Warcraft as well.

---

I'm thrilled that he's not only played other MMOs on the market, but his favorite MMO (DAoC) was a western MMO! He's played the standard staples, EQ and WoW. Finally, maybe someone who can understand what we need and come to expect from an MMO, because Tanaka is clearly out of touch.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rowyne

I'm sorry, but someone with MMO experience is exactly what this game needs. SE is completely out of touch with the market.

When FFXIV was released, we all thought, fantastic! They've gotten 8 years of experience with FFXI to take everything that just didn't work, learn from their mistakes, and make it better.

And then when you actually played it, it was like they hadn't learned a damned thing. In fact, in some areas, it felt like they had taken a step backward.

Here's Yoshi-P's experience with playing MMOs (source):



I'm thrilled that he's not only played other MMOs on the market, but his favorite MMO (DAoC) was a western MMO! He's played the standard staples, EQ and WoW. Finally, maybe someone who can understand what we need and come to expect from an MMO, because Tanaka is clearly out of touch.

---

No wonder he adding dungeons he play blizzard and western mmo -.- you can add western stuff but don't make this into a dam wow clone....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rowyne

I'm thrilled that he's not only played other MMOs on the market, but his favorite MMO (DAoC) was a western MMO! He's played the standard staples, EQ and WoW. Finally, maybe someone who can understand what we need and come to expect from an MMO, because Tanaka is clearly out of touch.

---

Yoshi is the best candidate to be working on FFXIV along side Tanaka, who created that virtual world and is going to continue telling the story.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zenaku

No wonder he adding dungeons he play blizzard and western mmo -.- you can add western stuff but don't make this into a dam wow clone....

---

FFXI had dungeons, WoW just took it a step further by making all of them instanced instead of letting other people come in and interfere. And don't forget about BCNMs, which were instanced single-boss encounters. Adding fully instanced dungeons won't make this game a WoW-clone, it'll just be implementing them in a way that many other games have realized works. Making all your party and end-game content non-instanced is an outdated concept.

I say thank the Twelve we're getting instanced dungeons. I love them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nuru

In your own context, AIDs was a good thing?

---

Nope.

/moarchars

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ostia

Only if you are a moron, because FFXI is still going today :)

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ilean

So is AIDS.

---

lmao! i <3 Ilean

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rowyne

FFXI had dungeons, WoW just took it a step further by making all of them instanced instead of letting other people come in and interfere. And don't forget about BCNMs, which were instanced single-boss encounters. Adding fully instanced dungeons won't make this game a WoW-clone, it'll just be implementing them in a way that many other games have realized works. Making all your party and end-game content non-instanced is an outdated concept.

I say thank the Twelve we're getting instanced dungeons. I love them.

---

there a big diff from bcnm and dungeon in ffxi vs wow version.

you love them the first few time you do them then when you do them 500times on other jobs/class you get bored out of your mind with it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zenaku

No wonder he adding dungeons he play blizzard and western mmo -.- you can add western stuff but don't make this into a dam wow clone....

---

Salvage, Nyzul isle, Limbus, and dynamis all say hello.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zenaku

there a big diff from bcnm and dungeon in ffxi vs wow version.

you love them the first few time you do them then when you do them 500times on other jobs/class you get bored out of your mind with it.

---

lol and the difference is????? ......oh wait that same concept is applied to both.

Also apparently you never did tanaka's "wow" dungeons huh? no assault? no Salvage? no Dynamis? It's alright we will forgive you! *pat pat* That is why they are level/rank teired dungeon so that you move on to better places, and only have to do the dungeon for story progression or the gear.... which is exactly what goes on in FFXI too... hmmmmmm.... logic flawed i think so! If you only want to run it a few times no one is stopping you.... stop equating instanced dungeons to WoW... or western mmo's it is common practice in eastern and western MMO's now, except of course FFXIV, which will be soon rectifying this!

FFXI dungeon and wow dungeon may have the same type of concept but what made them fun is the way you did them.

Nyzul isle: Had diff layouts and each floors had it's own way of unlocking the next floor. Even if you do Nyzul isle 50times you never have a 100% of winning you may get 3 lamps floors and lose or you may get 3 floors with hard mobs. Now Nyzul isle vs any wow dungeon and you see there noting a like.

dynamis: May have the same layout just like raids in wow but the way you do it and the time limit how you had to time black mage Nukes and sleep. How the THF had to pull and the tanks have to be on there toes. Vs WoW raids i got bored of them even if each raids was not the same as the one before it still got bored of them.

Assault: Some you had to get a mob to do a magic to break down the door to save someone. Some you had to open chest if you get wrong one the box come alive and kick your butt i never saw anything like that in WoW.

BCNM: Small Room dungeon main goal is to kill the boss each BCNM was very diff from the last like the king jelly one where you had to kill them all before they become the queen or king or w/e. Or the one that copy each person 2hour and steal it from you or the Endgame KSNM where you fight a boss. Each of the BCNM/KSNM are noting like western dungeons/raids.

ZNM: Open Boss fights where did you see this in WoW?

This is my point FFXI dungeons are more fun then western dungeons and yoshi-p is turning what ffxi had so much fun into a western dungeon. Why could he not use what ffxi had made them 100x better a little more casual and make them more fun and use diff ways to do them.

Quote:

---

QQ they aren't exactly the same QQ there are minor differences QQ <subjective statement regarding which one I personally prefer> QQ western MMORPGs are dumb QQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQ

---

ZenaQQQQQQQQQQQQQ

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zenaku

None of them are the same as wow dungeons there not the same thing Nyzul isle was floors much more fun then wow dungeons Limbus was not even a dungeon like wow none of it are like western dungeons that the point am getting

if they made the dungeons like limbus,nyzul isle,bcnm,Salvage i wont be mad but yoshi-p said they going to be base of western mmo. so no there no logic flawed smart one all am saying is yoshi-p said the dungeon be base of dam western type dungeons unlike the one in ffxi which i can do for days at end without getting bored but once you reach 60+ in wow it's like really can't the dungeon change a little doing something else beside doing the same thing just with a boss and dam diff mobs. FFXI dungeons where fun nyzul isle had diff ways to get to each floors, limbus you had to kill diff mobs or open chest to get more time all this made it fun.

So don't attack me before understanding what am getting at FFXI dungeons are noting a like to western dungeon.

My point here Eastern Final fantasy XI dungeons vs western dungeons i hope there more thought in the ffxiv dungeon and not 100% like the western dungeon we get bored and sick of them more quit then doing nyzul isle and i did 1-60 and did them over and over without getting bored of them one reason have to be due to the limit how many you can do which is a good idea to make the game more fun and not getting bored of the dungeon in 1day when you do it 500000 time for one dam item.

@Xmbei i did them all and there noting like wow dungeons trust me i play wow for sometime and got sick of the dungeon vs the ffxi version how can you sit here and tell me that wow and ffxi dungeon are a like? they may be called dungeon and may have the same type of concept but the way you do the ffxi version is what made it fun.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ilean

ZenaQQQQQQQQQQQQQ

---

it's not about prefer it's about western dungeon being boring like hell if you want to do western Dungeons you can play every dam game out there which is what? 90% of online games even F2P games. the point is ffxi dungeons are way better and fun you could easy reuse the idea change them up and make them more casual to meet up to the western type players and still keep that eastern type dungeon feel.

But all means if that what you want to do is have the same type of feel dungeon as wow then don't bitch when you do the dungeon next month and go i got sick of doing them within 2hours if there really like western like yoshi-p say then i hope he find out that he should try and make them more fun,.

LOL!

Quote:

---

QQ west QQ east QQ west QQ east QQ west QQ east QQ west QQ east QQ west QQ east QQ west QQ east QQ west QQ east QQ west QQ east QQ west QQ east QQ west QQ east QQ west QQ east QQ west QQ east QQ west QQ east QQ west QQ east QQ

---

You are whining about content that hasn't been released.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zenaku

it's not about prefer it's about western dungeon being boring like hell if you want to do western Dungeons you can play every dam game out there which is what? 90% of online games even F2P games. the point is ffxi dungeons are way better and fun you could easy reuse the idea change them up and make them more casual to meet up to the western type players and still keep that eastern type dungeon feel.

But all means if that what you want to do is have the same type of feel dungeon as wow then don't bitch when you do the dungeon next month and go i got sick of doing them within 2hours if there really like western like yoshi-p say then i hope he find out that he should try and make them more fun,.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ilean

LOL!



You are whining about content that hasn't been released.

---

Who whining get out of here troll, Yoshi-p said it be like western Dungeons i'm going with that so that what am talking about. Learn before you start talking like you know it all if you read what i said you know that i said that one of the interview yoshi-p said it be like dungeon that you see in western mmo so i can talk about the content when there that type of information out -.- now all am saying if it like western dungeon but more of a eastern feel where you have to do more then just fight to a boss then i'm all for it but it's just like western mmo it going to get old fast.

The point of the forums is to talk about all the upcoming content so it's not whining it's talking -.- block list me if you think am whining but also go and block everyone and yourself also for doing the same thing if you think what am doing is whining then everyone else doing the same thing -.-

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zenaku

Who whining get out of here troll, Yoshi-p said it be like western Dungeons i'm going with that so that what am talking about. Learn before you start talking like you know it all if you read what i said you know that i said that one of the interview yoshi-p said it be like dungeon that you see in western mmo so i can talk about the content when there that type of information out -.- now all am saying if it like western dungeon but more of a eastern feel where you have to do more then just fight to a boss then i'm all for it but it's just like western mmo it going to get old fast.

---

Sad part is every FFXI dungeon I remember was nothing but crawling > boss with very minor gimmicks added to fool gullible people into thinking they were doing something fresh, innovative and superior to those stupid western MMORPG players.

Except for the even crappier variety where you crawled but didn't fight a boss at the end (nyzul climbs), I guess.

I really don't give a damn if the dungeons are copied from WoW or not as long as they're fun.

IMO the stylistic difference between WoW and FFXIV in terms of graphics is enough to make it feel different. The graphical look (unrealistic cartoony) is one of the . . . most defining features of WoW IMO. Lots of other things are shared between WoW and other MMOs but it sure has a unique cartoon style that somewhat sets it apart.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ilean

Sad part is every FFXI dungeon I remember was nothing but crawling > boss with very minor gimmicks added to fool gullible people into thinking they were doing something fresh, innovative and superior to those stupid western MMORPG players.

Except for the even crappier variety where you crawled but didn't fight a boss at the end (nyzul climbs), I guess.

---

If you think that then ok :) but wow dungeons folllow the same dam thing over and over again. unlike ffxi version bcnm,limbus and dynamis where noting like wow dungeon. In wow you follow the map with tank as lead(considering you get a competent group) and all you do is kill mobs and few boss. Dynamis you had a timer to worry about sleep all mobs and you had to pull them on the right time. So i don't know what make you think that dungeon in ffxi are anything close to WoW i play both and i don't find anything that are the same beside you do fight a boss on both games and the goal is to get gear but the way you do them are noting like wow

@SuzakuCMX that my point but the problem is if it's just like wow dungeon that all you do is enter and kill a boss without something fun like time limit or killing a type of mob to pop the boss such things that make the dungeon fun then am all for it.

I care less if there noting like ffxi dungeon or wow dungeon as long as there fun. WoW Dungeon you get sick of them once you level from 15-60.

I have to agree, Zenaku, you're going off the rails about content that isn't implemented yet, sure that there will be nothing original or fun about it. Unless you can show me your magic 8-ball, you might at least wait until it's in the game. None of us have any idea at this point how they will approach dungeons, only that they will be instanced, and will first be R30 and R50 content.

I'm pretty sure even when this game is up to snuff, there will be nothing that makes you say, "Hey, this feels like WoW!" Take that as good, bad or indifferent.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zenaku

If you think that then ok :) but wow dungeons folllow the same dam thing over and over again. unlike ffxi version bcnm,limbus and dynamis where noting like wow dungeon. In wow you follow the map with tank as lead(considering you get a competent group) and all you do is kill mobs and few boss. Dynamis you had a timer to worry about sleep all mobs and you had to pull them on the right time. So i don't know what make you think that dungeon in ffxi are anything close to WoW i play both and i don't find anything that are the same beside you do fight a boss on both games and the goal is to get gear but the way you do them are noting like wow

@SuzakuCMX that my point but the problem is if it's just like wow dungeon that all you do is enter and kill a boss without something fun like time limit or killing a type of mob to pop the boss such things that make the dungeon fun then am all for it.

I care less if there noting like ffxi dungeon or wow dungeon as long as there fun. WoW Dungeon you get sick of them once you level from 15-60.

---

Time limit or killing mobs to pop a boss isn't really anything different. Sorry but it'll feel the same whether or not you have those things.

I can't even respond to Zenaku's response's because they sound ill informed or lack of actually doing raids/dungeons in wow. Some wow bosses had a timer if you didnt kill them by said time they rage on you and kick your ass. Also I thought XI dungeons and raids were dull mind numbing crawl sometimes fun to do, the only reason I wanted to do them was to get the gear not for the play style. In point I had fun in WoW dungeons because they were cleverly built and you had to figure out the strategy to beat each individual boss. Majority of the time I have seen boss/NM fights in XI was a mind numbing kite or tank tanks and healer's heal and mages nuke... same concept except you just stood there unless you were kiting to kill the thing there was no "alright the boss is about to do a stun freeze attack make sure you turn around in time so you don't get hit". My history was Xi- dull grind beatdown. WoW and every other MMO's dungeon stay attentive to everything going on or else you will wipe everyone due to 1 person not doing the "safety dance" or not noticing they had a timer aoe bomb on them and you had to get away from the whole group or you will wipe the party...
And as Myself and many others have stated stop assuming things you have not tried yet... you have a half month, when it is released, then complain about it being too WoW like or "oh its something completely different, let me have to apologize for being so obsessively wrong about my assumptions!"

i played nboth ffxi and wow, and i know wow bosses are more dynamical, and recently with unusual environement.
But saying ffxi was just kite-n-tank it's just shitball

point being was it fun and as dynamic as wow dungeons? If so must of had fun friends you played with that made it fun. My FFXI dungeon experiences always seemed super rushed...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xmbei

point being was it fun and as dynamic as wow dungeons? If so must of had fun friends you played with that made it fun. My FFXI dungeon experiences always seemed super rushed...

---

Can be a reason. Still, ffxi have their share of unusual bosses, not necessarily endgame:
alexander: blue mage building immunity to the major source of damage, and alexander with party splitted in 2
einherjar with random mobs and boss every time, + odin with adds and zantetsuken, avoidable running away and an emote
assaults, almost every one have a different environment
salvage, with equip locked at beginning slowly unlocking it, doing bosses half-naked and chariots have all an unique strategy, like long-armed charming your tanks
and so on.

Am not even going to post about this anymore

@Rowyne Once again yoshi-p said they be base of western type dungeons this is where am coming from.

I'll leave it at this i play both wow and ffxi and Rift and aion but the most i played was WoW and i have to say ffxi version of dungeon are more fun then wow.

FF games had dungeons before WoW ever did, all WoW did was make it so a group of players could go inside and steam-roll through it. I'll be indifferent if they are like WoW dungeons, however I'm hopefully they'll be like FFXI's where they require a lot more tactic than kill monsters a-z and then kill final boss.

Example: WoW dungeons - Fight a bunch of monsters quickly and then get to boss who DOES actually require strategy to defeat. These were still fun.

Example: FFXI Limbus - Fight from floor to floor with a different strategy for each floor, each time you complete a series of floors you get an item that goes with a collective of other items. Once all of them are secured you can trade them and fight a huge boss that requires a lot of skill to defeat. (At least it did in my day, with all the level 90's running around I'm sure it's hardly that difficult anymore). I had a lot of fun doing stuff like this because it required lots of teamwork.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kailok

FF games had dungeons before WoW ever did, all WoW did was make it so a group of players could go inside and steam-roll through it. I'll be indifferent if they are like WoW dungeons, however I'm hopefully they'll be like FFXI's where they require a lot more tactic than kill monsters a-z and then kill final boss.

Example: WoW dungeons - Fight a bunch of monsters quickly and then get to boss who DOES actually require strategy to defeat. These were still fun.

Example: FFXI Limbus - Fight from floor to floor with a different strategy for each floor, each time you complete a series of floors you get an item that goes with a collective of other items. Once all of them are secured you can trade them and fight a huge boss that requires a lot of skill to defeat. (At least it did in my day, with all the level 90's running around I'm sure it's hardly that difficult anymore). I had a lot of fun doing stuff like this because it required lots of teamwork.

---

that what i mean :) there strategy getting to the boss vs WoW dungeons.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zenaku

that what i mean :) there strategy getting to the boss vs WoW dungeons.

---

I'm guessing you never did a thing outside of 5 man dungeons, or any content before current x-pacs? AQ40 trash wasn't a joke, it required synchronized deaths and specific spells to counter random immunities, kiting, distancing, the whole she-bang! Twin Emps anyone? C'thun? some gnarly shit in their time, and 9/10 twin Emps will wipe an achievement raid to this day.

Stratholme in its hay-day was incredibly hard, especially with the amount of secrets and triggers, not to mention the time limit on the undead side. Don't forget Scholomance, trying to rush a boss like Rattlegore was pure death, and the CC's for trash and focusing had to be pretty spot on.

Going into BC fights like Mother, Reliquary of Souls, Illidan, Lady Vashj, Kael'thas, M'uru, Eredar Twins,--some of the most challenging and difficult fights I have ever seen in any game. Saying WoW raids dont require teamwork is silly, Lady Vashj was the epitome of teamwork realized.

and into WOTLK insane fights such as Yogg+0 lights, Firefighter, Freya+3, raiding was not a joke for hardcore raiders, and while I didnt like WoTLK very much, especially compared to Burning Crusade, I wont deny that for hardcore players, there was a definite distinction in content difficulty, and reward.

The most strategy I've seen in XIV is moving behind a raptor when it flame breaths, but half the time it doesnt matter if you move or not with the terrible delay in game actions and movement. If we get some content that even comes close to the amount of team-work and strategy required for many of WoW's bosses, I wont be the one complaining. Who cares if its instanced or not, this game needs content, and a challenge.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Daedae

I'm guessing you never did a thing outside of 5 man dungeons, or any content before current x-pacs? AQ40 trash wasn't a joke, it required synchronized deaths and specific spells to counter random immunities, kiting, distancing, the whole she-bang! Twin Emps anyone? C'thun? some gnarly shit in their time, and 9/10 twin Emps will wipe an achievement raid to this day.

Stratholme in its hay-day was incredibly hard, especially with the amount of secrets and triggers, not to mention the time limit on the undead side. Don't forget Scholomance, trying to rush a boss like Rattlegore was pure death, and the CC's for trash and focusing had to be pretty spot on.

Going into BC fights like Mother, Reliquary of Souls, Illidan, Lady Vashj, Kael'thas, M'uru, Eredar Twins,--some of the most challenging and difficult fights I have ever seen in any game. Saying WoW raids dont require teamwork is silly, Lady Vashj was the epitome of teamwork realized.

and into WOTLK insane fights such as Yogg+0 lights, Firefighter, Freya+3, raiding was not a joke for hardcore raiders, and while I didnt like WoTLK very much, especially compared to Burning Crusade, I wont deny that for hardcore players, there was a definite distinction in content difficulty, and reward.

The most strategy I've seen in XIV is moving behind a raptor when it flame breaths, but half the time it doesnt matter if you move or not with the terrible delay in game actions and movement. If we get some content that even comes close to the amount of team-work and strategy required for many of WoW's bosses, I wont be the one complaining. Who cares if its instanced or not, this game needs content, and a challenge.

---

I done a few raids and dungeon but am talking about the dungeon from wow the raids are something else sure there more fun and long like hell but talking about dungeon on wow vs how the new dungeon going to be in ffxiv if there fun and hard then i'm all for it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Daedae

The most strategy I've seen in XIV is moving behind a raptor when it flame breaths.

---

You stand behind a raptor and you'll risk Scythe Tail, nub! :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zenaku

that what i mean :) there strategy getting to the boss vs WoW dungeons.

---

Sac pull and/or kiting stuff that couldn't be slept. OMG teh so much strategy!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ilean

Sac pull and/or kiting stuff that couldn't be slept. OMG teh so much strategy!

---

kiting is a Strategy doing the god fight was pretty awesome had a tank kite and then fight each of the gods then fight him last. Nyzul isle had the most strategy/team work of anything i done in FFXI if you had a dumb??? in your team you pretty much lose even if the boss was all about zerg it had some strategy when and how to use the TP items to kill him if everyone does it too soon you may not get him low enough.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ilean

Sac pull and/or kiting stuff that couldn't be slept. OMG teh so much strategy!

---

More strategy than walking up to the boss and pressing your number sequences that you use on every other mob... (Yes, WoW style. :O )

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ogun_Riastradh

You stand behind a raptor and you'll risk Scythe Tail, nub! :D

---

excuse me officer, I'd like to report an incident of failed trolling! <3

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nuru

More strategy than walking up to the boss and pressing your number sequences that you use on every other mob... (Yes, WoW style. :O )

---

Spirit Dart(1), Spirit Dart(1), Damnation(2) end? Sound familiar?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Daedae

Spirit Dart(1), Spirit Dart(1), Damnation(2) end? Sound familiar?

---

Hence why they are making changes to the battle system?

BTW, nice partying with you earlier. :P

Were you in my Nanawa behest? Hello!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nuru

Hence why they are making changes to the battle system?

---

So why bring the 1111111 thing up then nub?

Satire and sarcasm are lost on you I take it....