Make FFXIV more like FFXI and less like WoW

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Redemption

Furthermore, why is it somehow not ok to have another ffxi styled game? There are already tons of wow-wannabe games out, so what exactly is not ok about 2 - 3 ffxi alternatives?

---

I never said it wasn't ok. Though I can see how it came off as though that's what I meant. I did get a little snide towards the end. I personally do not want to see another FFXI grind fest. I can of course respect your reasons as to why you don't play FFXI now, and like I said I would like to see the difficulty increased in FFXIV, it is a bit too easy even for the increasingly casual player. I guess after seeing this type of thread pop up so often I want people to give a better reason then "for nostalgia" as to why things should be added from FFXI. If I come of as ranting I'm sorry I'm not trying to be. I am honestly just trying to understand peoples reasoning.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Orson_Dara

Because they don't make money.

---

Except they do.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gogatsu390

I never said it wasn't ok. Though I can see how it came off as though that's what I meant. I did get a little snide towards the end. I personally do not want to see another FFXI grind fest. I can of course respect your reasons as to why you don't play FFXI now, and like I said I would like to see the difficulty increased in FFXIV, it is a bit too easy even for the increasingly casual player. I guess after seeing this type of thread pop up so often I want people to give a better reason then "for nostalgia" as to why things should be added from FFXI. If I come of as ranting I'm sorry I'm not trying to be. I am honestly just trying to understand peoples reasoning.

---

tis alright as said ur quote to just go play ffxi again has been seen a lot so gets tiring as well lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Orson_Dara

Because they don't make money.

---

hard to say they don't when only 1 FFXI style game exists. FFXI and its STILL going after what....10 yrs+?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ruzoko

again ur looking at it through a narrow view, never did I say bring those back and again the launch of ffxiv ARR is a 2nd re-launch they learned from previous mistakes

---

again? I wasn't addressing this to you. You're speaking out of context. I do acknowledged that they've learned from their mistakes.

ahh my mistake helps to have quote or show who you are speakin to

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gogatsu390

I never said it wasn't ok. Though I can see how it came off as though that's what I meant. I did get a little snide towards the end. I personally do not want to see another FFXI grind fest. I can of course respect your reasons as to why you don't play FFXI now, and like I said I would like to see the difficulty increased in FFXIV, it is a bit too easy even for the increasingly casual player. I guess after seeing this type of thread pop up so often I want people to give a better reason then "for nostalgia" as to why things should be added from FFXI. If I come of as ranting I'm sorry I'm not trying to be. I am honestly just trying to understand peoples reasoning.

---

It was more a general comment towards the community (I edited it in as an after thought). Like you, I respect that ffxi was not perfect for everyone and am perfectly fine with your style of play. I knew coming into this game it would not be FFXI, still I would like it to be the natural next best thing you know? I just want to see 'more' or at least a spirit of ffxi here and I know I have to curb my expectations or decide to pack up and leave if what is here is not for me. Mostly im in this thread defending ffxi as a good game and some ideas as good ideas even if they need to be tweaked a bit.

@orson_dara Actually they do make money, FFXI is considered as SE's most successful product (as stated by SE themselves)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ruzoko

tis alright as said ur quote to just go play ffxi again has been seen a lot so gets tiring as well lol

---

Yeah I didn't mean for it to come out as me saying they should go play it. I was genuinely curious as to why they didn't just play FFXI. I know it's an over stated comment but most of the time it's used to lash out. I was trying to ask an actual question. ^_^

@ Redemption

That makes sense and I see where you are coming from. I do hold FFXI in a special part of my memories, as it was my first MMO and through all the bad there were plenty of goods that I certainly do miss. Thanks for giving a real answer.

@ Gogatsu390 mhm, I personally am upset with the state of ffxi as redemption said its not as it once was, its a mere shell of its former glory, the lively zones where u saw partys everywhere, random people running around, fishing sitting together etc the game felt quite alive every zone had a purpose, may it of been lvln quests items NMS missions etc, it all had a point to be there which on ffxiv I don't get that same feeling, it feels....just as it is, a game ): that passion and heart that was put into ffxi I just don't see it in ffxiv atm its a decent game imo but has much to be desired.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gogatsu390

Yeah I didn't mean for it to come out as me saying they should go play it. I was genuinely curious as to why they didn't just play FFXI. I know it's an over stated comment but most of the time it's used to lash out. I was trying to ask an actual question. ^_^

---

The reason we don't play FFXI is because FFXI is no longer FFXI. It's no longer the same game it was from 2002-2009. SE killed it for us. We hoped FFXIV would cater to us a little bit. But it didn't. But XIV is a fun game for the most part. I don't have any serious complaints. But we can't go back to FFXI. It's like going back to your hometown and finding that all of your child play places have been bulldozed and replaced with crappy restaurants, shopping malls and lawyer's offices.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by misterrpg

Go back to WoW, please. You're a plague.

---

What's ironic is that you seem to have no sense of self reflection. I honestly feel bad for you guys that suffered through XI for so many years and still try to claim that it was good in any way.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ufufu

What's ironic is that you seem to have no sense of self reflection. I honestly feel bad for you guys that suffered through XI for so many years and still try to claim that it was good in any way.

---

lol I find this funny the only one I seem to see here who suffered on ffxi is YOU, those who post these threads obviously enjoyed it if they want it back

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ruzoko

lol I find this funny the only one I seem to see here who suffered on ffxi is YOU, those who post these threads obviously enjoyed it if they want it back

---

Then go play it. Don't mess up my game.

I tried playing XI, and hated every second of it. It just wasn't what I wanted out of an MMO experience. I sure as hell didn't go on the XI forums and complain and insist they change the game to be more like Guild Wars (a game from around the same time period that I would consider incredibly fun) or World of Warcraft, I cancelled my subscription and never went back. So... if you don't like XIV... and you like XI... why are you here? Go play your game. I'll play mine. We'll both be happy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ufufu

Then go play it. Don't mess up my game.

I tried playing XI, and hated every second of it. It just wasn't what I wanted out of an MMO experience. I sure as hell didn't go on the XI forums and complain and insist they change the game to be more like Guild Wars (a game from around the same time period that I would consider incredibly fun) or World of Warcraft, I cancelled my subscription and never went back. So... if you don't like XIV... and you like XI... why are you here? Go play your game. I'll play mine. We'll both be happy.

---

*yawn* you are boring me with this tale ufufu, and do you ever post anything decent? most posts ive seen of you are just causing issues, but ya wether you like or not 14 is gonna change how it is who knows, if u read these posts you would know the actual convo isn't to make 14 ffxi soo you are a bit behind posting this, plz go back read the posts til now and then post something worth readin.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ruzoko

*yawn* you are boring me with this tale ufufu, and do you ever post anything decent? most posts ive seen of you are just causing issues, but ya wether you like or not 14 is gonna change how it is who knows, if u read these posts you would know the actual convo isn't to make 14 ffxi soo you are a bit behind posting this, plz go back read the posts til now and then post something worth readin.

---

Haha, okay bud.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Malamasala

The OP is just nostalgic and ignorant. FFXI was about forming a 6 man party and getting 4k an hour and maybe getting 1 level per weekend. Until SE made it easier.

Form a group in FFXIV and chain monsters and it will be better than FFXI exp rate. The only complaint I see is that it isn't BEST. And where would we be if doing a dungeon was best exp, doing a fate was best exp, and partying was best exp and soloing was best exp?`Because that is what the players keep requesting. "GIVE ME BEST EXP".

---

Calling someone ignorant because they don't feel the same way as you about FFXI and FFXIV? Hmmm, what kind of name could we give a person like that? I guess i'll leave that to others to decide. But i agree with a lot of what the OP said, NM's sure would be nice to have added into the game. Would be nice to have other options.

Lol why does every single thread about this turn into people insulting each other over things the devs already said No to?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Swishytail

I don't even.... what??? FFXI was amazing. At least the 75 cap days were.
Level 99 FFXI is terribad.

---

I totally agree! FFXI was my first MMO and i have a lot of great memories from the 6 and a half years i played. And that's my issue with FFXIV. I don't see anything in this game that will make me talk or think about it years after i stop playing, like i still do about FFXI. I quit soon after the first Abyssea expansion, didn't like the direction they were taking @ all. :(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DeceptionsWrath

I totally agree! FFXI was my first MMO and i have a lot of great memories from the 6 and a half years i played. And that's my issue with FFXIV. I don't see anything in this game that will make me talk or think about it years after i stop playing, like i still do about FFXI. I quit soon after the first Abyssea expansion, didn't like the direction they were taking @ all. :(

---

I have a youtube playlist of ffxi music I still listen to sometimes to fall asleep

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL61CF362A69CCA226

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DeceptionsWrath

I totally agree! FFXI was my first MMO and i have a lot of great memories from the 6 and a half years i played. And that's my issue with FFXIV. I don't see anything in this game that will make me talk or think about it years after i stop playing, like i still do about FFXI. I quit soon after the first Abyssea expansion, didn't like the direction they were taking @ all. :(

---

Part of it really is the nostalgic effect. Yes I enjoyed FFXI, but it also did have alot of things that I would no longer put up with (3 hour waits for parties). It is the Final Fantasy setting and classes and lore that I love but many of the game mechanics left me wanting. In gaming as a whole we often look back and say how it was better in the old days. In reality it usually wasn't. We complain about how new games are stale yet games of all kinds/styles are being created on level never seen before.

I especially think if it is the first or second MMO you really get into it will have a more lasting effect on you. In the following MMO's one plays the experiences aren't as new and exciting. It kind of feels like been there done that. Many are getting burned out on MMO's in general. They played x game for years yet now find themselves jumping from MMO to MMO looking to recapture those old glorious moments. Most of my best MMO memories didn't come until after at least the first couple expansions or content updates (I took breaks from the game) . Most of these also centered around having a great group of friends to play with.

*The above comes from my own experiences with MMO's.

All i remember was, while FFXI was a good game for its time, i do not and cannot wish to experience it again. It made a lasting impression both good and bad, and while there will never be something like that again, i don't think many people could stomach it again in its entirety. As long as FFXIV has the best from both WoW AND FFXI, taking the most special and important parts, then the game will live quite long.

Also remember FFXIV 1.0? How similar it was to FFXI? Look how awesome THAT turned out...

FFXI was good for it's time, I played it for many many years and enjoyed it.

To those that said "there was always something to do" I'll say this: That's because it took forever to finish anything and drop rates were abysmal.

To those that wonder why they don't make XIV more like XI since XI obviously succeeded: XI succeeded in a niche market, and simply put that style would not attract enough players to make XIV a profitable venture. Keep in mind how much more expensive game development has gotten.


To the OP:
While I think that doing something like set bonuses with gear would be great (and I'm pretty sure SE has mentioned doing that in the future) OP's idea about events like dynamis, salvage nyzul etc. are retarded. People did those events year after year because they HAD TO. It was necessary to accomplish goals... but most people hated those places. Those events were a weekly chore for the most part... you can't recycle the same dungeon for 5 years and consider that good content.

Also: Sense of community has nothing to do with artifact armor. You could easily create that with difficult storyline roadblocks like primals (oh wait... SE did.) Sense of community is going to depend greatly on how the community reacts to challenges and content. How the community has acted since launch should clue you in pretty well as to what to expect from the community.

Question as I never played FFxi but how great was it two months in to the game. Or how much will be in this game six and a half years in?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DeceptionsWrath

I totally agree! FFXI was my first MMO and i have a lot of great memories from the 6 and a half years i played. And that's my issue with FFXIV. I don't see anything in this game that will make me talk or think about it years after i stop playing, like i still do about FFXI. I quit soon after the first Abyssea expansion, didn't like the direction they were taking @ all. :(

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cynric

Lol why does every single thread about this turn into people insulting each other over things the devs already said No to?

---

Because people basically don't like being told No. It's not something that happens often these days, so they don't believe it when it happens.

And, as someone who actually played WoW for 8 years (something that it seem very few people in this thread have actually done); this game has very little in common with its current iteration. The primary problem with MMO comparisons is that they evolve over the years, they aren't static. WoW today is as much like WoW on release as FFXIV is like EQ. There are similarities, but they are simply not the same game. If I were to compare this game with WoW, I would liken it to Burning Crusade - not super hard, but hard enough to make you feel like you've actually accomplished something when you advance.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Baneus

Because people basically don't like being told No. It's not something that happens often these days, so they don't believe it when it happens.

And, as someone who actually played WoW for 8 years (something that it seem very few people in this thread have actually done); this game has very little in common with its current iteration. The primary problem with MMO comparisons is that they evolve over the years, they aren't static. WoW today is as much like WoW on release as FFXIV is like EQ. There are similarities, but they are simply not the same game. If I were to compare this game with WoW, I would liken it to Burning Crusade - not super hard, but hard enough to make you feel like you've actually accomplished something when you advance.

---

I played a good bit of WoW, and I have to disagree... sortof. I find your end assessment to be about right as that is what I played of wow (launch-BC). However, I feel that people continually fail to see the comparison is on core mechanics. While I fully believe you mean and are accurate when you say wow is a different game today its core gameplay still exists and that is what I think most people mean when they say this game is like that. The way quests are handled, the combat system, the gear progression systems, instance dungeons being the meat of the gameplay is all done in vein with the spirit of WoW.

Note that I am not actually against wow, nor am I overly fond of it and would have rather that IF they wanted to start with the basics of wow to have built off of it significantly so that they ultimately had a very different game. I do not think they did this as the game stands now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CorneliusSavarin

All i remember was, while FFXI was a good game for its time, i do not and cannot wish to experience it again. It made a lasting impression both good and bad, and while there will never be something like that again, i don't think many people could stomach it again in its entirety. As long as FFXIV has the best from both WoW AND FFXI, taking the most special and important parts, then the game will live quite long.

Also remember FFXIV 1.0? How similar it was to FFXI? Look how awesome THAT turned out...

---

1.0 really was not that similar to ffxi and tbh I feel was almost entirely botched because the game was nowhere near ready.

Also, take it from someone who restarted on ffxi 4 times all pre-abyssea that it could work again (not to say it couldn't be improved in any way but it could still work). I had a lot of fun even just party leveling in that game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DeceptionsWrath

Calling someone ignorant because they don't feel the same way as you about FFXI and FFXIV? Hmmm, what kind of name could we give a person like that? I guess i'll leave that to others to decide. But i agree with a lot of what the OP said, NM's sure would be nice to have added into the game. Would be nice to have other options.

---

Ignorant, for stating their child hood experience is better than their current one. I could praise DOOM all I want, because I like it. But you don't see me trying to claim they never should have made Quake.

@Redemption
The core mechanics aren't exclusive to MMOs. They're the core mechanics of the majority of RPGs; past, present and future - you kill something, you gain in power, you get better gear to kill more stuff that gets you more power and more gear to kill more stuff..... The difference between a MMO and a single player game is that in a MMO there is no true end goal as that goal is moved over time requiring you to keep going on the level/power/gear treadmill. In some MMOs it's easier to "advance" and in some it's harder, the trick is to find an MMO that fits your personal Goldilocks Scale.

What irritates me with WoW comparisons is that most people doing that comparison don't know what the hell they're talking about. I mean did the OP even play WoW? Or are they repeating something they saw someone else post? I swear, "this game is becoming WoW" is the MMO equivalent of the "Arrow in the knee" meme.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Malamasala

Ignorant, for stating their child hood experience is better than their current one. I could praise DOOM all I want, because I like it. But you don't see me trying to claim they never should have made Quake.

---

You seem to be implying that something in the past could not possibly be considered better due to progress. That is simply untrue. FFXIV is more advanced than xi in a number of ways, but the content design PHILOSOPHY is somewhat timeless and considering it to be an advancement is quite subjective (some would say it is a step backwards and from a number of perspectives would be right).

@Baneus

Some of the features are infact core to the rpg genre yes, but the manner in which many systems in this game are presented are distinctly wow-esque to me. I have played tons of rpgs and tons of mmorpgs and if I were to pick 1 game out of them that this is most like I would go with wow 100%. It is just the closest comparison as far as I can tell... though I might have a small bias towards thinking that since Yoshida is quoted frequently referring to blizzard and wow.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hyrist

Harking back to FFXI continually will severely limit the scope and draw of this game.

---

Many people fail to realize that the OP is not talking about completely overhauling the battle mechanics of XIV to be like XI's. Hyperbole seems like a common thing nowadays so let me elaborate.

FFXI Had great, I repeat GREAT endgame tiered content (which had nothing to do with Battle Mechanics). There were a Multitude of things to do that were all worthwhile. (Pre-Abyssea Expansion) Many of the people here who bash XI probably saw videos of the combat system and said "Oh, that looks boring and doesn't appeal to me. The whole game and everything about it must be complete garbage"

If Yoshi-P is smart, which we know he is, he will draw on inspiration (keyword there, don't skim over it) from FFXI to design endgame content. Things like Nyzul Isle, Sky and Besieged are great forms of content that can be implemented in XIV if Yoshi wanted them to be. Not looking back to draw inspiration from FFXI, WILL actually severely limit the scope of this game, so if anything this quote is backward in it's intent.

On a side note: Many of you probably don't know this, but BlueGartr, the FC that worked their butts off to get World First kill on Twintania have their roots in FFXI. They wouldn't have stayed for so long if XI was such a crappy game as most of you seem to think so.

And why does it matter that Order of the blue garter played FF XI?

That's like saying, Obama drinks Pepsi so clearly it tastes better than Coke. o_o

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cynric

And why does it matter that Order of the blue garter played FF XI?

That's like saying, Obama drinks Pepsi so clearly it tastes better than Coke. o_o

---

Probably because they are leading the charge on FFXIV, using knowledge, skills, and partnerships all taken directly from FFXI.

Its more accurate to say Frank has been a pilot for years, perhaps his opinion of airplanes is valid.

Also, no one here, as far as I can tell has said FFXI is BETTER than FFXIV. It is different; but anyone who cant see that 90% of the game is already copied over is a are fool.


Elezen=Elvaan
Mi'qote=Mithra
Hyurr=Hume
Lalafel=tarutaru
Roogadoog=Galka

Limsa=Bastok
Uldah=San d'Oria
Gridania=Windurst

Mamool Ja = Mamool Ja

I could entirely see it being Cannon that Vana'diel and Eorzea both being continents on the planet Hydaelyn.

Uldah is about caste, royalty, classes and wealth.

Limsa has tech (guns) and sort of a frontier attitude.

Also, Uldah is a castle.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VahnValbosce

On a side note: Many of you probably don't know this, but BlueGartr, the FC that worked their butts off to get World First kill on Twintania have their roots in FFXI. They wouldn't have stayed for so long if XI was such a crappy game as most of you seem to think so.

---

The BG group that took down Twintania didn't "stay for so long in XI." They went to WoW back in like 2006.


I do think there are some 11 things that would be nice to have in 14. But that is because I don't mind games borrowing stuff from other games if it's beneficial. Most of the stuff I like, though, are on the smaller scale. Things like inventory list, being able to label your map (seriously, how is it no other mmo took this feature?), chocobo breeding (which is coming), etc.

I have no desire to stand at the feet of a mob and kill it for 4+ years for a single drop that is mostly a sidegrade, however.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kazamoto

Uldah is about caste, royalty, classes and wealth.

Limsa has tech (guns) and sort of a frontier attitude.

Also, Uldah is a castle.

---

understood. uldah just seems very bastoky to me. locale I suppose, while limsa reminds me more of sandoria probably due to maelstrom colors

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bufkus

Instead of trying to make the game more like FFXI, they should simply add more sandbox elements.

---

i like this suggestion a lot. i never played either wow or xi and i'm not gonna pretend i know the positives and negatives of either game. what i do know is that dungeon grinding is extremely boring. i get that some people like it, and i don't think they should remove it from the game. but for the love of pixels, add something that we can do outside of dungeons. i mean they've created this expansive and beautiful world. give us a reason to explore and develop it a bit more. i'd love to see the high level crafted gear move away from requiring mats acquired from tombstones. make this stuff available in other ways, by running strongholds, or NM drops or anything outside of an instance.

Blue Garter are just players I don't know though. I know nothing of their experience other than the fact that they downed turn 5 first and played XI. Which is kind of.. big whoop? They aren't my friends, they don't play on the same server as me. I guess if they were to tell me a boss strategy I could take that into consideration.

But to say . WELL THEY PLAYED XI FOR THIS AMOUNT OF TIME. WHY WOULD THEY DO THAT?

Maybe they just really loved the game? Why did people keep playing 1.0? Clearly 1.0 was bad. Just because a decently skilled player does something doesn't mean I should really care.

That's the difference between being a Sheep and a Wolf. I don't really care if Blue Garter killed Warden, played XI, played WoW, played Ragnarok, or say Dragoon is the most broken job in 14. I am not them. For all I know they could just answer why they played XI with. "Well we committed 4+ years and didn't want to quit"

/signed for truth...

WTF SE i knew i wasnt the only one thinking like op

The main things I would like to see are: New zones that are locked out until you beat a challenging quest line (hopefully the first expansion will give us this), and some "oh shit!" mobs in certain zones and specific areas.

At 50 there is no sense of danger when running around the world, it would be so much more exciting if you needed a party or at least a few friends to reach certain things and areas. I used to love exploring and wondering "hmmm what's down here?" Only to be met with some crazy ass mobs that I had no chance of tackling solo and then that blind panic coming over me as I tried to make my escape.

{Excitement!} {Can I have it?}

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Galliano

The main things I would like to see are: New zones that are locked out until you beat a challenging quest line (hopefully the first expansion will give us this), and some "oh shit!" mobs in certain zones and specific areas.

At 50 there is no sense of danger when running around the world, it would be so much more exciting if you needed a party or at least a few friends to reach certain things and areas. I used to love exploring and wondering "hmmm what's down here?" Only to be met with some crazy ass mobs that I had no chance of tackling solo and then that blind panic coming over me as I tried to make my escape.

{Excitement!} {Can I have it?}

---

People who suggest this can tie that madness to an anchor and swim with it. The Chains of Promathia formula stunk the first time around and I doubt very many people have a desire to see that movie again. That kind of "excitement" is something most players, I believe, can do without.