Please Fix the Raise Animation!

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Originally Posted by Okipuit

Greetings,

Not being able to heal players during the raise animation is working as intended. However, in patch 2.1 we will be making adjustments so that after you are raised you will not receive damage from attacks for a certain amount of time.

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Great news here especially for those stuck at Titan. Death from Plumes won't be a nearly wipe issue. Of course if the immune will stay up long enough to get a heal tossed on you. Very nice.

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Originally Posted by MisaCeliousa

funny how, as a lvl 50 conjurer for quite some time I've never had the problem ^^

but I guess it's totally not the players fault for not being in the right position

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Experience some more end-game content and then come back and let us know if you still feel that way.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

Ps, a little tip for those struggling to get quick heals in on people being raised, if you've got 'Automatically face target when using action.' on you can simply mash your cure button whilst shuffling forward. The moment your character starts spinning to face them you are good to heal them. Can save a few seconds and quite a bit of mp!

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i was going to test this but you already got it.. thanks

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Originally Posted by Okipuit

Greetings,

Not being able to heal players during the raise animation is working as intended. However, in patch 2.1 we will be making adjustments so that after you are raised you will not receive damage from attacks for a certain amount of time.

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Excellent change!

It seems reasonable that HP should be a two-way street. If the game (enemies & pets) can influence their HP, the players should as well. Preventing damage during the raise (and presumably pet-healing) seems like a workable solution, I'll take it!

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

That may well be the case in content like AK, Praetorium etc, but that is not a valid attitude once you are in coil, stuff happens

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Uh. There's not a place in FFXIV right now where it is a more valid attitude. Period. Coil is XIV's cutting edge. That doesn't mean you deserve unlimited ez-mode combat rezzes. Quite the contrary. You do it right or you don't do it at all.

What id like to see when this change happens is some sort of indicator to let us know that the target cant be healed, such as the targets unit frame in party window has a certain background colour until this immunity has worn off, that way we healers dont waste time trying to heal a rezd player that cant be healed!

While I don't necessarily oppose this change, there are two problems I see here. First being that you died in the first place (most likely to completely avoidable damage... there are rare exceptions, like getting gaol'd and then your group breaking you out underneath a bunch of plumes... that was your groups fault not your's). And please don't tell me about "lag" killing you... we all face the same "lag" pre-built into the game, learn to adapt. Do I die to the occasional lag spike or just all around bad connection days into the server? sure. But that doesn't mean you should get special treatment... wait until your connection gets fixed.

Second being the I keep getting rezzed and dying in the stupid as I get rezzed. The example given on Titan P5. There are very few times which you should logically rez. Stop hitting the rez right as it goes off. Course if you were terrible and died standing in the bad in the first place, I don't know why I would expect you to be "smart" at this point and pick a good time to rez... -_-

Do mistakes happen? yes! Even I make mistakes. I even have a moderate threshold for tollerance of other's mistakes. My issue here is people blaming the game for their mistakes instead of accepting that they made the mistake and fixing their problem. You can't fix a problem if you don't think you have one. That is what I see people complaining about here a lot in this thread.

To the healers I see your issue, and feel they should at least make it more "informative" to you at least about WHEN you can heal someone. Even if they don't want to change the "lockout" they should make it grey'ed out or whatever until you can actually heal them.

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Originally Posted by ChickensEvil

While I don't necessarily oppose this change, there are two problems I see here. First being that you died in the first place (most likely to completely avoidable damage... there are rare exceptions, like getting gaol'd and then your group breaking you out underneath a bunch of plumes... that was your groups fault not your's). And please don't tell me about "lag" killing you... we all face the same "lag" pre-built into the game, learn to adapt. Do I die to the occasional lag spike or just all around bad connection days into the server? sure. But that doesn't mean you should get special treatment... wait until your connection gets fixed.

Second being the I keep getting rezzed and dying in the stupid as I get rezzed. The example given on Titan P5. There are very few times which you should logically rez. Stop hitting the rez right as it goes off. Course if you were terrible and died standing in the bad in the first place, I don't know why I would expect you to be "smart" at this point and pick a good time to rez... -_-

Do mistakes happen? yes! Even I make mistakes. I even have a moderate threshold for tollerance of other's mistakes. My issue here is people blaming the game for their mistakes instead of accepting that they made the mistake and fixing their problem. You can't fix a problem if you don't think you have one. That is what I see people complaining about here a lot in this thread.

To the healers I see your issue, and feel they should at least make it more "informative" to you at least about WHEN you can heal someone. Even if they don't want to change the "lockout" they should make it grey'ed out or whatever until you can actually heal them.

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You sound like an absolute joy to play with.

/endsarcasm

I agree, It's nearly impossible to get back up when fighting titan, if he stomps, uses weight of the land, or does anything else that deals damage, you will not survive. Even if you manage to get back up, you will almost certainly die from the stomp, especially if you have brink of death. (Which given how difficult it is to get back up, you will almost certainly have.) It's the only fight in the game I know of where there's basically no point in raising people.

edit: Just read Okiput's comment, and the brief invulnerability is definitely something I'm going to look forward to.

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

You sound like an absolute joy to play with.

/endsarcasm

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For what? not allowing you to blame the game for you being bad... perfect! I am happy with that.

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Originally Posted by Okipuit

Greetings,

Not being able to heal players during the raise animation is working as intended. However, in patch 2.1 we will be making adjustments so that after you are raised you will not receive damage from attacks for a certain amount of time.

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Thank god.

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Originally Posted by ChickensEvil

For what? not allowing you to blame the game for you being bad... perfect! I am happy with that.

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I'll just let your words speak for themselves on this one. I'm sure you're on of the folks in the duty finder that leaves before some groups even get started.

for me, the issue is that it wouldn't be so bad if the player was immune while being heal-invuln. instead, I had sever times during Ifrit HM where I rezzed a player, watched him start to move, still could not heal him, and then he gets spiked by AE damage before he has enough TP to sprint to safety.

At least with the bug, we could start healing a few seconds (plural) faster. I don't mind the fancy animation, but don't let your animation lead people to an experience different than the one their senses (in this case sight) expect =/ This is a bug by the definition used in software engineering.

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Originally Posted by Okipuit

Greetings,

Not being able to heal players during the raise animation is working as intended. However, in patch 2.1 we will be making adjustments so that after you are raised you will not receive damage from attacks for a certain amount of time.

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Any possibility of this extending to Limit Break?? Yes most of the time you can time your LB well enough to avoid most AEs but there are plenty of cases where it is just overly frustrating timing the LB to account for the 10 second animation lock.

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

I'll just let your words speak for themselves on this one. I'm sure you're on of the folks in the duty finder that leaves before some groups even get started.

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Nope, I'm not. Way to judge me without even knowing me. I even said in my original post that: One, I am not necessarily opposed to this change, and two I have a rather high tolerance toward people making mistakes. I have ran through many AK's with tanks who post "first time" and will happily help them get through it even if instead of getting a 25-30 minute run it takes an hour or whatever. I even have a moderate tolerance to people being bad when I have put together titan groups (EG getting thrown over the side from landslide one time doesn't equal an automatic boot, there are a lot of groups who are like this).

All I was saying was to stop blaming the game for you being bad. If you make a mistake own up to it. "I'm sorry I messed up, I will try harder next time." If you are having legitimate lag issues (e.g. dying 3 times in a row because of lag.) then you should have the courage to speak up and step out on your own and I have high respect for people who do that.

CheickensEvil, if I'm understanding your clarification correctly, your comments are in the wrong thread. The expectation that people fall on their swords is not the context of the frustration with Raise animation. In this thread, we are sharing our collective gripe that people we want back in combat (despite their expendability...hence the reason we often triaged to let them die) are getting re-killed because we're locked out of healing them even though NPCs can affect them.

Assuming the invuln from 2.10 has a timer, this will be wonderful because at least we'll know when it's safe to spam heal the living dead back to health ;-)

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Originally Posted by Grendahl

CheickensEvil, if I'm understanding your clarification correctly, your comments are in the wrong thread. The expectation that people fall on their swords is not the context of the frustration with Raise animation. In this thread, we are sharing our collective gripe that people we want back in combat (despite their expendability...hence the reason we often triaged to let them die) are getting re-killed because we're locked out of healing them even though NPCs can affect them.

Assuming the invuln from 2.10 has a timer, this will be wonderful because at least we'll know when it's safe to spam heal the living dead back to health ;-)

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it was brought up, which was why I felt like I wanted to voice my concern of them nullifying the impact of having to rez someone and the interesting timing behind it. Extending the period of invulnerability is not necessarily a bad thing, which is why I have stated that I don't necessarily oppose the change. It would depend on how much invulnerability timer they give. If they make death meaningless by making rez a more powerful mechanic... (just bring 2 BRD and 4 healers and power through everything, mana song and keep rezzing infinitely, lolololol) ...then it will impact gameplay in a very negative way. And what about SMN being the only DPS with incombat rez. If rezzing becomes a thoughless mechanic, then you will see even stronger pulls to only bring SMN and BRD to groups. Silence and rez...

The only other option is to start locking out how many rezzes you can dish out. Unless the medica II trick is not working as intended, then it might not be quite as much of a glaring issue. Because then on fights like Titan you still wont get a rez because the AOE damage is just going to kill you regardless.

The point at which you gain control of your character is the exact point you should drop invulnerability and be able to receive a heal. meaning you will still have to make sure you don't pop up in a ground AOE that would oneshot you anyway, but there wont be that weird delay between receiving a heal and not. You as a healer should have to carefully choose where to stand when you rez, and me as a DPS should have to carefully choose when to accept said rez so I do not get insta gibbed.

And I also say no to the LB "immunity", it should be an active choice to either sacrifice yourself to rez everyone else, or time it correctly to keep yourself alive and get everyone else up. I have to plan my LB around that 10 seconds, or risk killing myself, I don't see how it is any different. You generally don't see good DPS dying to a rank 3 LB, so I don't see what the issue is.

The logic here is astounding. If the development team's opinion was "whelp, shouldn't have died in the first place!" then they wouldn't have implemented a trait for healers to allow combat raises. No one is asking for a "get out of jail free card", they're asking for a little more forgiveness when you're trying to get someone up since most challenging encounters make it incredibly unpredictable when it comes time to get a safe raise off.

There's no good reason why someone should be immune to heals for nearly 3 seconds after raise, yet they can still take damage. They get a debuff and it costs a lot of mana to raise someone. What more do you want? Not only that, but you can't say that a death is 100% the fault of the person who died. How about a disconnect from the player? How about a tank lags and causes someone else to pull aggro and die before the tank can get it back?

Staying on topic is hard.

Thank you for the update Okipuit, I guess I'll see how it works sometime this week. It did annoy me that I couldn't heal someone right after a rez without using medica, but hopefully it won't be so necessary now if the player has a couple seconds of invulnerability ♥

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Originally Posted by MisaCeliousa

well you should plan your raise position better and they should plan when to accept better

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you are a bad white mage

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Originally Posted by Sidious

Uh. There's not a place in FFXIV right now where it is a more valid attitude. Period. Coil is XIV's cutting edge. That doesn't mean you deserve unlimited ez-mode combat rezzes. Quite the contrary. You do it right or you don't do it at all.

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You've got a far too simplistic view on this. Coil4 punishes deaths to the point of it being a near guaranteed wipe on any death regardless of role, yet it's very easy and safe to get someone back on their feet. On the flipside, if you can do Coil2 cleanly with 8, you can likely do it with 7 as long as the silence rotation is kept up, yet raising on ADS is an absolute pita because of the constant vacuum wave spam. Caduceus is similar, a death doesn't generally mean a wipe, but even with swiftcast on hand I really don't like leaving my tank without a heal for that GCD. And that's before I start on the unavoidable deaths you see on Twintania.

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Originally Posted by Okipuit

Greetings,

Not being able to heal players during the raise animation is working as intended. However, in patch 2.1 we will be making adjustments so that after you are raised you will not receive damage from attacks for a certain amount of time.

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How you can say this is "Working as intended" is beyond me, its clearly broken and you are half ass'ing a quick fix until you have more time to fix it, just be honest here.

As others have mentioned there is another glaring issue here and its the system allowing you to target a person who can not be healed resulting in the heal backfiring to the person who is dealing it.

Really wishing I didn't sub for 6 months now, it seems you guys are insistent on not fixing what needs to be fixed.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

You've got a far too simplistic view on this. Coil4 punishes deaths to the point of it being a near guaranteed wipe on any death regardless of role, yet it's very easy and safe to get someone back on their feet. On the flipside, if you can do Coil2 cleanly with 8, you can likely do it with 7 as long as the silence rotation is kept up, yet raising on ADS is an absolute pita because of the constant vacuum wave spam. Caduceus is similar, a death doesn't generally mean a wipe, but even with swiftcast on hand I really don't like leaving my tank without a heal for that GCD. And that's before I start on the unavoidable deaths you see on Twintania.

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My view is simple because the fact of the matter is simple: You beat a fight that punishes deaths by not dying. You beat fights that are hard to battle rez on by not dying. That you have to be strategic with how and when you battle rez is not a detriment to the game.

If your group cannot do the fights without deaths, then you deserve to fail, collectively, as a group. Period, the end. Stop blaming the battle rez mechanics and start learning how to survive.

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Originally Posted by Sidious

My view is simple because the fact of the matter is simple: You beat a fight that punishes deaths by not dying. You beat fights that are hard to battle rez on by not dying. That you have to be strategic with how and when you battle rez is not a detriment to the game.

If your group cannot do the fights without deaths, then you deserve to fail, collectively, as a group. Period, the end. Stop blaming the battle rez mechanics and start learning how to survive.

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In this case there is no point in having battle res .. just as well the dev team aren't as jumped up and hoity toity as you.