Toxic endgame community...

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Originally Posted by Arxief

Could you imagine the queue times for this? No one would ever run the story mode past the first time. It really is a community issue. If 7/8 ppl want to rush the dungeon, go for it. But don't be disrespectful to that 1 person who is watching the story cut-scenes for the first time.

If you queue in the duty finder you should expect everything, including those that want to watch the cut-scene. Want to speed run the dungeon 10,000 times? Get a pre-made together

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Sorry, but you could say the same thing about people finding their own pre-made to run a "Story Mode" of a dungeon. The DF isn't just for people who run dungeons for the first time...

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Originally Posted by MorbidAngel

Sorry, but you could say the same thing about people finding their own pre-made to run a "Story Mode" of a dungeon. The DF isn't just for people who run dungeons for the first time...

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The DF is the default way that people find group members at any stage in their character's existence — whether they're super l33t tanks who have off work that day and no one in their FC is on, or they're brand new DDs who just hit 50 and don't even have an FC. That's why it's unfair to expect a random newbie to skip cutscenes and ruin their own story experience just because you (not you specifically, but you in a general sense) don't want to take an extra 8 minutes.

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Originally Posted by Ceol

The DF is the default way that people find group members at any stage in their character's existence — whether they're super l33t tanks who have off work that day and no one in their FC is on, or they're brand new DDs who just hit 50 and don't even have an FC. That's why it's unfair to expect a random newbie to skip cutscenes and ruin their own story experience just because you (not you specifically, but you in a general sense) don't want to take an extra 8 minutes.

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But they can watch the cutscenes in their room. And do you honestly believe one person inconveniencing seven people is FAIR?

If I notice someone new watching CSs in CM, I politely ask them to skip them and watch them in their inn room later. If they ignore me or say no, I give them fair warning that we're going to continue without them. As you say, the DF is for everyone, not just for those doing it the first time. It's not fair to the other 7 people if they have to wait.

I don't honestly mind if they watch the cutscenes... that's their right. But then they'll have to put up with the consequence of potentially being locked out of a boss. There's nothing toxic about my behavior at all. I'm always very polite about it, and most people I've run with have been as well.

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Originally Posted by Kaedan94

But they can watch the cutscenes in their room. And do you honestly believe one person inconveniencing seven people is FAIR?

If I notice someone new watching CSs in CM, I politely ask them to skip them and watch them in their inn room later. If they ignore me or say no, I give them fair warning that we're going to continue without them. As you say, the DF is for everyone, not just for those doing it the first time. It's not fair to the other 7 people if they have to wait.

I don't honestly mind if they watch the cutscenes... that's their right. But then they'll have to put up with the consequence of potentially being locked out of a boss. There's nothing toxic about my behavior at all. I'm always very polite about it, and most people I've run with have been as well.

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You don't see this as toxic? Sorry but if someone is in there for their first time and you pull that bullshit, I'd go out of my way to make sure your experience is as unenjoyable as possible.

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Originally Posted by Kaedan94

But they can watch the cutscenes in their room. And do you honestly believe one person inconveniencing seven people is FAIR?

If I notice someone new watching CSs in CM, I politely ask them to skip them and watch them in their inn room later. If they ignore me or say no, I give them fair warning that we're going to continue without them. As you say, the DF is for everyone, not just for those doing it the first time. It's not fair to the other 7 people if they have to wait.

I don't honestly mind if they watch the cutscenes... that's their right. But then they'll have to put up with the consequence of potentially being locked out of a boss. There's nothing toxic about my behavior at all. I'm always very polite about it, and most people I've run with have been as well.

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Nothing must be fair. It comes down to an understanding. Some play games differently than you (not specifically, just generally speaking). Just because you're polite about something, doesn't mean that you're being fair about it. You're losing nothing by waiting, but gaining at least a sense that you're letting someone enjoy the game in a harmless way. Okay, well I guess you lose a few minutes of your life... I'm pretty sure we've lost more time yawning in our lives.

I do also realize that what I said can be used from the opposite perspective as well. It's a never ending cycle, which is why it's not a matter of being "fair", it's a matter of understanding.

If people want everyone to be on-ball about the goal (speed running, story viewing, etc), then pre-make the group. If you rely on random DF, understand that people have different objectives in mind. Who's going to be the adult and show some compromise? We're in a sea of people of varying ages, but so few mature adults among them.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

You have to run that zone 70+ times per job to gear up. My first time I wanted to watch the CS but I skipped them because everyone else was. Because you can just watch it in the inn its not really a big deal.

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Actually, you can't just watch them in the Inn... only the first one. The rest are not in the Inn.

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Originally Posted by Cigaran

You don't see this as toxic? Sorry but if someone is in there for their first time and you pull that bullshit, I'd go out of my way to make sure your experience is as unenjoyable as possible.

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Nope, not toxic at all. Do you know what people mean by toxic community? It means an insulting, offensive, trolling community like League of Legends. While I won't deny that there are people like that who run CM, I haven't seen it often and I most certainly do not participate in toxic behavior.

You, on the other hand, purposefully going out of your way to piss people off, is toxic.

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Originally Posted by Welsper59

If people want everyone to be on-ball about the goal (speed running, story viewing, etc), then pre-make the group. If you rely on random DF, understand that people have different objectives in mind. Who's going to be the adult and show some compromise?

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Your suggestion just as easily applies to new players wanting to run it. They can form their own pre-made groups specifically to go slowly through it and watch all cutscenes. And from a community/societal standpoint, it makes much more sense for them to the be the ones to make their own groups, since first time runners are by far the minority.

But speaking of compromise, that's exactly what I do. I compromise. You want to watch the cutscenes, which will inconvenience the other seven of us. So as a compromise, I ask you to skip the cutscenes for now, since you can watch them in your room later. That way you can still participate in all fights. However, I offer another compromise that if you don't want to skip cutscenes: you can watch them, but you will run the risk of getting locked out of a boss.

You claim that the seven others being inconvenienced aren't losing anything, but you're wrong. They're losing time... which is the most precious resource in an MMO. You really shouldn't speak of being an adult when you're not even capable of looking at both sides.

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Originally Posted by Misiah

Actually, you can't just watch them in the Inn... only the first one. The rest are not in the Inn.

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Yes, they are. All of them are in the inn. You just have to check the different categories.

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Originally Posted by Misiah

Actually, you can't just watch them in the Inn... only the first one. The rest are not in the Inn.

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You do know there us a button you can press to select which CS to view right?

*hint* Its a small button.

I had an absolutely horrible experience in Castrum, but I had on okay party in Praetorium that actually waited for us who wanted to watch the cutscenes belonging to the main aspect of any FF game: the story!

I say "okay", because they didn't even have the courtesy to say "goodbye" or anything, they just left once final boss was over. However, much better than Castrum party I was in, since that specific Castrum party didn't even bother to say "hi" or anything, just rush rush rush without any regard to any cutscene watchers, which lead us to be locked out from the last fight in Castrum.

I think it is common sense, that if you want a speed-run, you do not duty-find queue a story dungeon. You have the choice to actually make a party with other like-minded people.

Of course, when I later finish leveling my tank, I will make sure to not repeat the mistakes and simply aweful behaviour other people demonstrated. Jesus Christ, it is Final Fantasy, not WoW.


Edit: Also about watching cutscenes in the INN: it is definitely not same experience, given that they designed a specific order of events; if you just skip the non-cutscenes, you'll miss a lot of the fluidity that was meant to be there. Imagine only watching FF6 story-scenes and nothing of the things that happen in between; yeah, it is simply not the same.

I'm actually glad i left this game in the dust, hearing these elitists preach on their altars about making people skip because it saves them time. You people will be all that's left, then you can cannibalize each other when the others have left. What a joke.

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Originally Posted by Dreyda

I'm actually glad i left this game in the dust, hearing these elitists preach on their altars about making people skip because it saves them time. You people will be all that's left, then you can cannibalize each other when the others have left. What a joke.

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It is ironic how they are far more like the Garleans, one of the main enemies in the game. The Garleans were too obsessed with results and didn't care really about how they obtained them.

Man, I often think to myself that this is such an awesome game, and I'm having a lot of fun playing. And then I come to the forums and am confronted with what I have to look forward to. A pretty fucked up community expecting people to live up to their standards, giving said people loads of abuse if they actually try to enjoy a dungeon for the first time.

If you want to do a speedrun, then by all means do so. But either you use the DF and accept and respect people wanting to watch cutscenes or you form your own damn party. And no, it really doesn't work in both directions, since the DF is the default way of running a dungeon and cutscenes are in fact designed to be watched as events unfold as opposed to being watched in your inn room afterwards to save those oh so precious minutes of your life being wasted.


Can't wait for these abusive people to get bored and leave for the next MMO they can spoil.

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Originally Posted by kurokawa

It's down to Duty Finder functionality.

It mixes hardcore with casual. There's no separation.

They don't mix well.

If they would just add an option in DF to choose 'hardcore' or 'casual' then this issue will be sorted.

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The truly hardcore do not pug. They form their own parties, because that's the way to ensure maximum efficiency.

The people you refer to are in between the truly hardcore and the people who just want to do it for the story. In League of Legends, they are known as "Try-hards".

Whatever happened to people just being nice, decent human beings?

When I do any endgame instance via Duty Finder I expect that people haven't done it before and am prepared to help them and give advice, if everyone's done it then it's just a bonus. I guess I'm what you'd call a Cutscene Crusader, I have no problem with people watching cutscenes in their first time through CM and especially Praetorium, it doesn't take much more time and I'd rather someone have a fun experience and begin to contribute to endgame with a positive attitude than have a completely negative experience and just leave the game because they think everyone's a jerk.

I think people just need to relax and actually let other people enjoy the game, I heard somewhere that charity and compassion are all things that make our own selves happier in the long run, it works for me. And just so we're clear, I have full DL and Relic +1 and I'm having a great time in the game, especially when I get to help out my friends.

Philos at the end of those two story dungeons are there as an incentive for players that have already done them to come back and help those who haven't while having a nice reward. They aren't there to be farmed while ruining the experience of those same people that they should be helping. You're free to speedrun them if you want and nobody is going to stop you, but FFS, stop using the Duty Finder for it. People new to those dungeons are most likely to not have a FC to make a premade, but you (supposedly) do.

It's sad, but it seems that those days of players helping each other just for the sake of doing so are long over. SE was wrong to assume that players would be nice and would be willing to help, but that doesn't gives you any right to act like you do and drive people away from the game with your attitude.

There is nothing wrong with asking to skip cutscenes and then explain the boss fights, when you're running it for the 15th time. 1-2 people slowing down 6 is an issue, They are also ridiculously long.

Blame S-E though this though. It should be an epic storyline dungeon for new comers there, not a freaking grind dungeon. I'm repeating myself again...

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Originally Posted by Kaedan94

Your suggestion just as easily applies to new players wanting to run it. They can form their own pre-made groups specifically to go slowly through it and watch all cutscenes. And from a community/societal standpoint, it makes much more sense for them to the be the ones to make their own groups, since first time runners are by far the minority.

But speaking of compromise, that's exactly what I do. I compromise. You want to watch the cutscenes, which will inconvenience the other seven of us. So as a compromise, I ask you to skip the cutscenes for now, since you can watch them in your room later. That way you can still participate in all fights. However, I offer another compromise that if you don't want to skip cutscenes: you can watch them, but you will run the risk of getting locked out of a boss.

You claim that the seven others being inconvenienced aren't losing anything, but you're wrong. They're losing time... which is the most precious resource in an MMO. You really shouldn't speak of being an adult when you're not even capable of looking at both sides.

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... I believe I addressed all of the points you made in the rest of my post you quoted. Again, a few minutes for ANYONE is not the end of the world. And if it is, why are you spending the time on an uncertainty (such as playing a video game...) if every second is a life or death matter? The compromise I referred to was the fact that the non-story folks still get it done.

Basically, the folks doing it for speed get the short end of the stick, in that it takes a few minutes longer to do something. Fair? Of course not, but it's not a big deal to let the minority have some fun... it's a video game, not a job. You're not gonna be fired from your "job" of playing FFXIV if you take a little longer to do something. Compromise. Be a thoughtful adult where it applies. It's not harmful to give up some things once in a while (such as a few minutes).

Your idea of a compromise isn't much of one. It's basically a dictatorship. Compromise is a mutual understanding and acceptance. Your going through with something regardless of their reply is more along the lines of a threat that's sugar-coated. Don't paint yourself out to be some sort of martyr. You're not wrong to do it, but neither is the person who refuses to skip scenes. I think for your sake, it's important to understand that you're not compromising. You're only suggesting one, despite the intent to go through regardless of the other parties concerns

Once again, I covered pretty much your reply in the quote you referred to.

I think it's important that I should point out that I'm not saying that it doesn't get annoying or whatever after so many goes. I'm just saying that if you rely on the DF for randoms, it's going to be like that. Just keep in mind you're going to ruin someone elses experience if they're there for the story by rushing them. It doesn't matter that they can view it in the inn. MMOs are immersion based games. It kinda breaks the immersion when you're already done with the battles, then go back to see the story that lead up to it.

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Originally Posted by Kaedan94

...first time runners are by far the minority.

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If they are a small minority, they would have a more difficult time forming a pre-made group for their purposes than you (as a speed runner) would. CM was created as a storyline dungeon, so queuing for CM in the Duty Finder and expecting people to give up on the purpose it was intended for is unfair. Speed runners (and I include myself in this) have turned CM into a spam-fest for tomes. But being that WE'RE the ones bending it to our own purposes, it should be OUR burden to make the groups. First-timers only have one chance to have that first-time experience. And no, watching the CS in the inn does not compare. It will take you all of 10 minutes to put together a CM speed run group that will likely stick together for multiple runs. Strong-arming a Duty Finder group to do it our way makes us a lazy and "toxic" majority.

I thought it might be important to add this link for this important Topic. Maybe it will clear things out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZ1ts9uENDs

Can see it now - Incoming fix to community issues due to speed running CM and Praetorium -> unavoidable cutscenes.

Until they can put all the cutscenes in the Inn, it's pretty likely that they didn't intend on people rushing the zone. Though, I always esc them myself and haven't ever seen them because my first run people said... watch in the Inn. Obviously, those who say that never tried since you actually can't beyond the first one only.

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Originally Posted by Misiah

Can see it now - Incoming fix to community issues due to speed running CM and Praetorium -> unavoidable cutscenes.

Until they can put all the cutscenes in the Inn, it's pretty likely that they didn't intend on people rushing the zone. Though, I always esc them myself and haven't ever seen them because my first run people said... watch in the Inn. Obviously, those who say that never tried since you actually can't beyond the first one only.

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You actually can watch all of them... I think. I don't recall any that don't show up. You just have to choose the appropriate category from the drop-down list. There's categories like Missions and Dungeon Finder (I think). The CM and Prae ones would be found under the Dungeon Finder category I believe. I don't recall a cutscene that wasn't played in that list, when I went back to watch. Might be wrong though.

I play this game because i want to enjoy the creation of FF
and honestly i don't really care about those ppl who always rushing other to skip, if they don't like it they can leave.
doesn't affect me at all. i don't want to befriend somebody like that also
i don't see the point to have to fit in on their "rush" circle just to be accepted and do runs with them.
and not a single fk was given that day :cool:

Hey, unskippable cutscenes sounds about right. If I'm new to the dungeon and want to watch the pretty clip then I should have that right. I'm sorry if you've seen it already and want to rush further down that gilded road to become a "super awesome elite player that has been blessed so by Pope Dewrito the Thirst". Seriously some of you need to ease up. Its going to be OK! No I mean it. You will totes get that Relic+1 I can see it! Hell I can smell the new armor smell from here and it has a scent of greatness and cinnamon buns. You will get that thing that you want.

But in all honesty and I hate to fan the flames of rage that loves to rip through these forums, did NOBODY in your lives teach you patience? Calm yourself. I'm sure we are all relatively smart people here and can use our grey matter effectively but common sense would dictate that yelling at the person in your party about watching a 1-2 minute cg video would not make that person's moral higher and more effective in battle.

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Originally Posted by Austin

I do man I do and I could say the same to you ! Keep your noobie self out of my DF ( see how that sounds ? It's stupid lol).. Jeeze people be feisty tonight hahaha I meant no harm or to be a douche

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Are you serious.... I don't... I don't even... *Sigh*

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Originally Posted by Welsper59

You actually can watch all of them... I think. I don't recall any that don't show up. You just have to choose the appropriate category from the drop-down list. There's categories like Missions and Dungeon Finder (I think). The CM and Prae ones would be found under the Dungeon Finder category I believe. I don't recall a cutscene that wasn't played in that list, when I went back to watch. Might be wrong though.

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You are not wrong. I thought so too till, I saw there are actually 2 small button left and right to the bar, which allows you to select the scene you wish to view.

I'd go by majority rule on this one.
If 4-5 people in the party wanted to watch the cut scenes then I'd kick back and watch them too.
But if most everyone wanted a speed run then I'd be happy to skip the cuts, even though I've yet to watch them.
It's not like I won't get another chance to see them since I'll be running the damn thing endlessly to gear up.

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Originally Posted by TheMoonflow

I'd go by majority rule on this one.
If 4-5 people in the party wanted to watch the cut scenes then I'd kick back and watch them too.
But if most everyone wanted a speed run then I'd be happy to skip the cuts, even though I've yet to watch them.
It's not like I won't get another chance to see them since I'll be running the damn thing endlessly to gear up.

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This is the way I go with it. I like speed runs and I like watching cut scenes (at least the first time anyway). However, I try to consider the desires of other players I'm grouped with. If enough people want to watch cut scenes or speed run I yield to their desires or leave.

I still don't understand why this is such a big deal.

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Originally Posted by AnkoYaoi

Are you serious.... I don't... I don't even... *Sigh*

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Why not? Why have u decided that your non-rushing way of playing is the right one? Why someone who wants to rush should build the party outside the DF, not you, who wants to watch them all?

ps. them = cutscens )

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Originally Posted by AnkoYaoi

Are you serious.... I don't... I don't even... *Sigh*

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Dead serious ... Dead freaking serious lol

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Originally Posted by TheMoonflow

I'd go by majority rule on this one.
If 4-5 people in the party wanted to watch the cut scenes then I'd kick back and watch them too.
But if most everyone wanted a speed run then I'd be happy to skip the cuts, even though I've yet to watch them.
It's not like I won't get another chance to see them since I'll be running the damn thing endlessly to gear up.

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This is what I did on my first praetorium run. There were about 3 of us who were first timers and the rest wanted to speed run. So we all went along with it just to get through. However, I won't move on when someone is watching a cut scene. Even if I skipped, I will wait. If the rest want to rush ahead, cool, they can play by themselves. Most likely they will all return in a couple minutes.

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Originally Posted by Aenarion

you can't force others to watch it or wait for you.

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No one can force you to watch it. Nor do you have to wait.

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Originally Posted by Welsper59

You actually can watch all of them... I think. I don't recall any that don't show up. You just have to choose the appropriate category from the drop-down list. There's categories like Missions and Dungeon Finder (I think). The CM and Prae ones would be found under the Dungeon Finder category I believe. I don't recall a cutscene that wasn't played in that list, when I went back to watch. Might be wrong though.

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I am in my Inn as I write this. I have rewatched the Castrum scene. The bottom of the right side says "Cut Scene #1" and the "little buttons" mentioned on either side aka arrow buttons are greyed out and nonclickable as is the bar that looks like you can move. The play button works, but just replays the first cutscene yet again (repeatedly).

If they are there, I'd like to know how to access them. I've not actually ever watched any but the first one.

Edit: Apparently, I can click the buttons on some of the others.

seems to be everyone has to wait until 2.1 for the speedrun issue for new people will be addressed. -_-

I love how legacy players feel they're worth something for spending time playing a broken product. What an accomplishment.

In my opinion these players are the trash players and they'll get the minority during the next months. If you're pissed because you just want to farm and don't want to wait for newbies then don't use the duty finder and form your own groups but I guess this means you can't be lazy.

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Originally Posted by Avenal

I love how legacy players feel they're worth something for spending time playing a broken product. What an accomplishment.

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So you're basically just going to infest multiple topics in addition to your already trolling one with "i hate this game and so everyone else must know it, none-stop" comments You need to find something else do.

Everyone knows that Duty Finder is the most efficient, hardcore farming tool in the game and not a tool used to wean new players into new content without forcing them to shout for a group for the one time they may want to run the dungeon.

How dare those first timers enjoy the story. How dare they.

I'm just gonig to watch from afar to see if there is anything besides hardcore raiding at 50, improved questing systems maybe for leveling other jobs, and most importantly i'm waiting to see which faction wins here. Elitist bullies or the common folk. Until then i have to stay far away.

Stop playing with randoms, and join a linkshell and free company with similiar goals and interests.

Thread was TL,DR so I apologize if this was said but...

I would rather watch every cutscene in CM than run with a group who can't/won't gather the adds together and take them to the bosses.