ARR Needs Significant Cuts to the MSQ

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Originally Posted by Alicie

At level 20 after defeating Ifrit you are a hero. Now stop useless fetch quests entirely here and focus solely on the main thing.

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No at Level 20 after defeating ifrit you are a useful pawn with the echo and a bad understanding of how much freedom you could use it to get

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Originally Posted by Xieldras

If we start trimming too much from the MSQ, then don't we remove the player's immersion from the world where said story actually takes place in?

Sure some stuff is not important, but it gives it the extra flavoring doesn't it?

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That's what optional quests are for

One thing I had sort of noticed, but was really hammered home when I voice-acted ARR for a friend who struggled with reading, is that a lot of NPCs have about 2 text boxes more than necessary. Don't get me wrong, I love additional dialogue, lore, worldbuilding and so on - but we're talking "you are not important to the story and it's taken you 5 full paragraphs to ask me to fetch something, and another 5 full paragraphs when I brought it back, because you're saying too many words".

I feel like you could leave the quests alone and just tighten up the dialogue, and you'd improve things a great deal just with that.

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Originally Posted by Underscore

If you want great voice acting, you can switch the cutscene audio language to Japanese without it affecting the text. They do recast all the English voices in Heavensward, but it's still pretty rough in terms of casting and direction in my opinion.

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Most of the English voice actors never even met each other unless they went to a con or fanfest at the same time. Ever since Alisae and Alphinaud's VAs met and became friends, I noticed an improvement in their work. Colin, Alphinaud's VA, is even playing through XIV very slowly and voice acting the bits that were silent before. He and Bethan (Alisae's VA) graced us with a voiced Coils of Bahamut last year as a big event.

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Originally Posted by shoebilldreams

One thing I had sort of noticed, but was really hammered home when I voice-acted ARR for a friend who struggled with reading, is that a lot of NPCs have about 2 text boxes more than necessary. Don't get me wrong, I love additional dialogue, lore, worldbuilding and so on - but we're talking "you are not important to the story and it's taken you 5 full paragraphs to ask me to fetch something, and another 5 full paragraphs when I brought it back, because you're saying too many words".

I feel like you could leave the quests alone and just tighten up the dialogue, and you'd improve things a great deal just with that.

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It's not just the dialog, it's the actual boxes too! I think this is one of the hidden artifacts of the PS3 era. The text boxes are the size they are because the game used to need to be playable at 720p, which meant the font would be larger and fill out a much bigger portion of the text box.

As a result, they needed 5 text boxes to fit 10 sentences. When they could have cut that in half simply by having the text box fit twice as many words in, if you were on a larger monitor.

So if they:
1. Reduced the amount of words needed to get the point across
2. Had a better scaling system that only spilled over to a second paragraph if it was actually needed based on your screen size
3. Moved the additional dialog as optional flavor text from the NPC

It'd clean things up a ton.

They've already trimmed ARR. And frankly it's Endwalker and DT that could use some fetch quest trimming at this point.

It's always kinda hilarious to me that people still parrot that ARR is a "slog" when the MSQ gameplay since Shadowbringers has only become more repetitive with even less gameplay that isn't just talking to NPCs and watching cutscenes. I guess the average XIV fan, raiders aside, hates having to play their video games instead of watching them.

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Originally Posted by Gwenkatsu

The main problem of the ARR MSQ is how they completely mess up the timing. First it's oh sooooo urgent, then they make you pointlessly waste hours of time.

Merlwyb: "Titan is on the loose, the earth is already shaking, we're all gonna die."
WoL: "No problem mam. Just let me fiddle around with that idiot Trachtoum, then waste hours of precious time with the Company of Morons, until someone finally tells me that 'any Sharlayan sage worth their salt can get to Titan whenever they want to'". Special props go to Y'shtola for not doing her job until someone spells it our for her.

Same when the Garleans take away the Scions to be questioned, tortured, and killed - and the WoL just sets out for another pointless bug hunt, and - while we're at it - also solves all the problems of the brain-addled Coerthans and their dysfunctional society. "Sure mr. guy-in-a-blue-coat, you just appeared out of a snow storm without any proove of your position, so when you ask me to kill off some of my best men I will surely do as you ask."

I'm all for a complex and long-winded story with nooks and crannies - but ARR does a really bad job to deliver. First building up tension without anything happening afterwards is not the way to tell a compelling story.

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This doesn't get any better in future expansions. Shadowbringers (to a lesser extent), Endwalker and Dawntrail ALL suffer from jarring whiplash of big event followed by mundane busywork, lack of sense of urgency when the MSQ should call for it, or repetitive exposition the player was already privy to before.

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Originally Posted by ReynTime

They've already trimmed ARR. And frankly it's Endwalker and DT that could use some fetch quest trimming at this point.

It's always kinda hilarious to me that people still parrot that ARR is a "slog" when the MSQ gameplay since Shadowbringers has only become more repetitive with even less gameplay that isn't just talking to NPCs and watching cutscenes. I guess the average XIV fan, raiders aside, hates having to play their video games instead of watching them.



This doesn't get any better in future expansions. Shadowbringers (to a lesser extent), Endwalker and Dawntrail ALL suffer from jarring whiplash of big event followed by mundane busywork, lack of sense of urgency when the MSQ should call for it, or repetitive exposition the player was already privy to before.

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One thing I noticed is that after any major event in EW and DT, the NPCs quite literally tell you to take a break. They want you to STOP PLAYING THE GAME for at least an hour or two, hell even overnight, and mentally process what happened.

The emotional whiplash effect comes when you mainline the game in 16 hour marathons instead of nibbling at it in bite size chunks. When you pace yourself, slow down and follow the playtime pattern the game asks you to follow, the roller coaster turns into a much smoother and enjoyable ride. (This also applied to FFXVI's pacing problems.)

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Originally Posted by UNDEAD10000

How about just remove ARR main story quest entirely and make it as a short recap cutscene side quest that only go through most important key moments, while making Heavensward and level 50 as a new starting point and have all ARR jobs instantly unlocked with level 50 starting gear?

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Why don’t we just have you log on the first time you play and a giant YOU WIN banner pops up and then you get logged off and your character is deleted

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Originally Posted by shoebilldreams

I feel like you could leave the quests alone and just tighten up the dialogue, and you'd improve things a great deal just with that.

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And also re-translate some of it while you're at it. I just did the "Occupational Hazards" quest again on my alt, and who the hell did that...

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Originally Posted by Yoenne

Hail, friend! Would you fancy a flagon of ale, or perhaps—ah, an adventurer! I can scarce believe my fortune. I was just looking for someone who might assist me in checking on the welfare of a couple of regulars.
To be precise, I'm looking for an expedition team poking around in the ruins of Issom-Har, due south of here. They usually turn up at the Druthers every few days, covered in dust and hungering for a hot meal, but they've not been in for nigh on a week.
Could well be that they're simply occupied with scholarly business, but they'd be running low on supplies by now, and that concerns me. Please, pay them a visit at the ruins and see if aught's amiss. You're looking for one by the name of "Irielle," by the way. I...ah...forget the other one's name.

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In the Japanese version, she's all business-like: None of this "Hail, friend!" nonsense, straight to "Mr./Mrs. Adventurer, could you check the researchers at the ruins south of here for me please?"

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Originally Posted by Yoenne

冒険者さん、ひとつお願いできますか？ここから南の「イソム・ハーの穴蔵」に行って、遺跡調査をしている方たちの様子を見てきてください。
彼らはよく、うちの酒場でご飯を食べて、食料を買い込んでいくのですが……ここ数日、姿が見えないのです。
調査を仕切っているのは「イリエル」さんです。何かあったのか、確認をお願いします。

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The only subtle hint we get about her infatuation for Rolandaix is that she's purposefully avoiding naming him. It's only after Irielle (who's clearly onto her) tells us to specifically mention her younger brother being fine that she gets flustered. And she does so almost right away in the original, whereas in the current English version we first have a full text box telling us Buscarron would be devastated if something happened to one of his regular customers. Really? Buscarron would be devastated?!

Also, again with this being overly friendly to someone she basically just met and only heard about being a good problem solver.

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Originally Posted by Yoenne

Thank you, friend. Buscarron might come off as rough-hewn to strangers, but I tell you, he'd be right devastated were anything to happen to one of his regulars.
What's that? Irielle assures me that her brother is in fine fettle as well? Why, I...I have not the slightest idea of whom she speaks, nor why that would concern me! Hmph!

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The end is particularly unnatural. In the original, she says "私は、おふたりとも心配していたんですっ。", so basically "I was worried about both of them...!", trailing off. Or, in full:

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Originally Posted by Yoenne

冒険者さん、おかえりなさい。彼らは無事だったみたいですね。……え？　特に「弟」さんが元気？
べ、別にそんなことは強調しなくてもいいです！私は、おふたりとも心配していたんですっ。

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Not even a hint of Buscarron having anything to do with it, either.

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Originally Posted by ReynTime

They've already trimmed ARR.

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No they did not. Sure they cut couple fetch quests; but they made crystal tower mandatory which on it's own has so much slog and fetch that it became worse than before the rework.

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Originally Posted by ReynTime

This doesn't get any better in future expansions. Shadowbringers (to a lesser extent), Endwalker and Dawntrail ALL suffer from jarring whiplash of big event followed by mundane busywork, lack of sense of urgency when the MSQ should call for it, or repetitive exposition the player was already privy to before.

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There are points where I think it works, like the return to the Crystarium after Innocence's death in ShB. The meaningless errands are done at a point where it seems like the WoL, the First, and the Source you know are doomed—the atmosphere is tense, hopeless, and your inability to do anything to make progress helps that build. They tried similar things in EW and DT, and EW succeeded to a degree after the Final Days came to Radz-at-Han, but the other attempts I can single out (example: Tuliyollal after Zoraal and his killbots made their show of force) fell completely flat.