ARR Needs Significant Cuts to the MSQ

[Veritas-Ancora]

Hi. So to enjoy the story again, I rolled an alt to reminisce about the ARR game.

What I've found so far is that there's a lot of fat that could be cut.

- Camp Drybone fetch quests prior to Thancred arriving. Lots of walking around doing mediocre tasks until the Scion appears.
- All of the Elder searching in Little Solace doesn't add to the story.
- The whole searching for Teteroon & Buscarron thing by wasting a ton of teleports doesn't make any sense.
- etc. etc.

I am now L31 in a zone where I should be L20.

I'm not saying reduce the XP, I'm saying cut the fat off of the story. If it doesn't revolve around the Scions or Ascians, it should be *considered* for fat cutting. Not everything of course, there is some that should be retained, like Edda makes a stark change in her life that deserves being in the story that follows her into POTD.

If anyone has any examples of where the fat should be cut, please post here.

Much thanks!!

[Xieldras]

If we start trimming too much from the MSQ, then don't we remove the player's immersion from the world where said story actually takes place in?

Sure some stuff is not important, but it gives it the extra flavoring doesn't it?

[OliverQ]

The whole Company of Heroes questline leading to Titan can be trimmed down. It's like 15 fetch quests.

[RedLolly]

If we start trimming too much from the MSQ, then don't we remove the player's immersion from the world where said story actually takes place in?

Sure some stuff is not important, but it gives it the extra flavoring doesn't it?

I agree but ARR often fails to hook in new players right away. Anecdotally, most new players don't actually stick around because ARR has a hook, these players care about the stuff in HW onwards.

But some of the quests do feel more like the devs were trying to make players see everything in Eorzea that they rebuilt and not exactly to further plot somewhere.

To take an example from OP, the quest we run back and forth for Buscarron and Teteroon just happens as fluff. We never get any pay off for knowing these two and establishing their friendship later on that makes the effort feel worth it in hindsight. It should be a side quest to add that extra lore for those of us that want it.

For a GOOD example look at Edda. Barely there in the earliest part of the story, but those couple moments that just feel off, and then she and her party come back for a dungeon and is a key piece of Palace of the Dead's story released a whole expansion later.

[Alicie]

If we start trimming too much from the MSQ, then don't we remove the player's immersion from the world where said story actually takes place in?

Sure some stuff is not important, but it gives it the extra flavoring doesn't it?

There is a significant potential in converting a lot of msq quests into optional quests

[Supersnow845]

The problem I see with this is that 14 was one of the few games that I legit felt like properly scaled you from “nobody” to “well regarded adventurer” to “lynchpin of operation archon” to “WOL” avoiding the common pitfall of “save my cat now you are the most decorated person in the realm”

If you cut too much of ARR’s MSQ you lose the integrity of why the WOL is so universally respected; because they did the dirty grunt work. Sure they were in essence always a chosen one due to being azem but that was learned way later, the WOL rose to prominence simply being the most reliable adventurer in the realm

[Jeeqbit]

There is a significant potential in converting a lot of msq quests into optional quests

I don't see how. The MSQ stays pretty relevant to what it is throughout.

The whole Company of Heroes questline leading to Titan can be trimmed down. It's like 15 fetch quests.

This questline was quite a burnout for me. Particularly getting the wine. But it's meant to add to the story because it is trying to teach the Warrior of Light that they overcame things as a team and this is meant to increase the (in-story) experience of your character, and give them the confidence that they can overcome as many primals as they wish and that Ifrit wasn't luck. It's also meant to teach your character not to be naive and fall for obvious conmen that make you go through all that.

It's also relevant to the story because it is how you meet Brayflox who you meet again later. There is a sidequest that involves reforming the Company of Heroes later in the game as well.

Despite what I said about it being a burnout, it was also relaxing and gave me the opportunity to take things slow, improve my gear, level Conjurer so I could unlock PLD. As a new player, taking it slow is fine and many new players are fine with that. Veteran players don't understand because if they go and do the MSQ again they are impatient, and they can't help it, because they've already done it. But when you are new, you want to explore this world you're in and figure out all the controls and UI, so the story being slow is fine due to that.

I agree but ARR often fails to hook in new players right away.

It's actually a "love it or hate it" kind of thing. It tends to draw in people that like story very quickly. However, it tends to push away impatient people with attention issues, as well as whose who are being pressured by a friend to "rush to endgame to raid", or who feel pressured to rush to raid by themselves. It also pushes away people who are used to action games or are the types that can only really play those.

Personally, I was hooked immediately by several things: the bright non-depressing colors of Thanalan, the music, the 2-button combat, the emotion and empathy throughout the story and most importantly Thancred watching over me as I dealt with these interesting mage figures (Ascians). This showed to me that there was a larger story arc at play and so it was a very fast hook for that reason, and it only continued to hook me more as it went on. ARR was great, and HW even better and everything kept getting better after that which showed a drive to improve it each time.

But it's a story game. As Yoshi-P has said, not everyone is interested in a story-driven game. No MMO has 100% retention. In older games I would sit and recruit people to guilds at beginner areas. I would watch them just stop playing within a few months. It was the norm. People come, they play for a bit, then they move on. Only a minority stay for the long-term in general, whatever the developers do, but they can increase it somewhat with the right game design and getting them to form social bonds that make it difficult to quit.

[Alicie]

But it's a story game. As Yoshi-P has said, not everyone is interested in a story-driven game. No MMO has 100% retention. In older games I would sit and recruit people to guilds at beginner areas. I would watch them just stop playing within a few months. It was the norm. People come, they play for a bit, then they move on. Only a minority stay for the long-term in general, whatever the developers do, but they can increase it somewhat with the right game design and getting them to form social bonds that make it difficult to quit.

If it's a story game, and story is oh-so-important, SE could've long ago went back to voice all the cutscenes and purge filler back and forth junk, turning story-focused game into a game that actually presents story in a manner that is different from absolute boredom.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

Hot take: I think the last MSQ 'cut' they've done (mostly in post ARR) was unnecessary (gods I missed how the Sylph pranked the Scions...).

Slogfest of fetching quests & 'UsElEsS fIlLeRs' aren't the only parts that makes the MSQ a slog. Maybe they should also take a look how lv1-50/60 gameplay indirectly insults players' intelligence?

[Miradelle]

The MSQ is just a cutscene and running simulator, there's barely any combat and I guess that's fine .. but you need distractions from the MSQ when you wanna actually play the game. I am far too disconnected from the average new MMO player to say if the combat is engaging enough at lower levels or not, but I think it'd be nice if we had some sort of scaling thing for roulettes that allows us to keep our full kit, because even the newbies will start getting sick of their lvl 20 rotation when they hit level 50+. Who cares about balance for casual content, as long as you're not steamrolling it like WoW's normal dungeons.