The Problem with Yoshi-P | An Honest Critique by Ember's Arcade

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Originally Posted by Volgia

Difficulty can be a storytelling tool they refuse to use, and the dark souls comparison always seem to be there when they add any possible friction to the content, remember people angrily comparing the DT dungeons to Elden Ring because they wiped a couple of times on new content they've never seen before?

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Oh absolutely agree there. Its twice as funny considering that some those people most likely never played a soulsborne title in earnest.

The way I like to see it is to compare FF14 MSQ to the structure to a Mario game.
In Mario, you are expected to run through and jump over things for a couple of levels, then fight bowser, and when you are hungry for more, you can tackle the optional extra challenges, after which you get an additional reward.
If the FFXIV MSQ were a Mario Game, almost every level up to the final boss would be solid ground with no pitfalls or enviromental hazards, and no enemies besides an occasional goomba every couple of levels. There is an occasional mini-bowser in between. And then, once you have cleared the final Bowser, suddenly the game opens up the aforementioned optional levels with pitfals and spikes and traps and enemies where danger is very much real (ie, Extreme and Savage instances).
That is, imho, weird for a video game.

I agree, excessive focus on not wanting to leave anyone behind in getting to the next part of the story, has the 'necessary side effect' of stripping anything that would be an obstacle from that path. But that defeats the purpose of the writing instrument of the Hero's Journey -- it is supposed to be the journey of a character going through trials and tribulations in the overcoming of obstacles. Take out those parts and you have something whose story beats are not connected by challenges, but by chores. An easy mode that lets anyone experience the story, including those with e.g. disabilities that would prevent them from performing the gameplay, should be a fallback, not the default and only setting.

I wouldn't mind if they even added a 'skip' option to msq dungeons and trials that just gives you the cutscenes and a written summary of any story beats not covered by cutscenes that happened in there. The only thing they'd need to be mindful of then would be that there shouldn't be any advantage to finishing the msq ahead of the majority, to prevent skipping content becoming a meta.


EDIT: And then make the default gameplay something that would actually be interesting to play through and exciting to clear - not this odd halfway point between skipping and gameplay where you're kind of skipping out of needing to do much, but still having to sit the time and go through the motions.

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Originally Posted by Eyrilona

I agree, excessive focus on not wanting to leave anyone behind in getting to the next part of the story, has the 'necessary side effect' of stripping anything that would be an obstacle from that path. But that defeats the purpose of the writing instrument of the Hero's Journey -- it is supposed to be the journey of a character going through trials and tribulations in the overcoming of obstacles. Take out those parts and you have something whose story beats are not connected by challenges, but by chores. An easy mode that lets anyone experience the story, including those with e.g. disabilities that would prevent them from performing the gameplay, should be a fallback, not the default and only setting.

I wouldn't mind if they even added a 'skip' option to msq dungeons and trials that just gives you the cutscenes and a written summary of any story beats not covered by cutscenes that happened in there. The only thing they'd need to be mindful of then would be that there shouldn't be any advantage to finishing the msq ahead of the majority, to prevent skipping content becoming a meta.

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This idea potentially solves a lot of problems. Possibly even more useful in solo duties, since it would open up design space for those who want more of a challenge.

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Originally Posted by Evergrey

Personally I think it would've been much better if at least half of the Scions perished then.
That the crystal didn't have enough power to bring all of them back.
It was the Endwalker expansion after all, the end of a story that's been going on for many many years.

It would've also made the next expansion feel more like a new adventure if not all the previous characters were still tagging along.
That the players ventures forth while remembering those that were lost.
Would've made it much more impactful imo.

"Everyone likes a happy ending" as they say.
But bittersweet endings are the ones that people remember.

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I don't even mean that they necessarily needed to kill any of them off, but there needed to be SOME consequence.
Just like there were originally consequences to Y'shtola casting a spell that pulled both her and Thancred into the lifestream...let's forget for a second that they completely forgot that part in later expansions.

Happy endings are nice and all but I completely agree that they do not have the same emotional impact, especially when you try to portrait some kind of heroic sacrifice but everything is hunky dory 30 minutes later.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

That's interesting. From a plot point of view I didn't think it made any sense at all, and seemed very much grafted in to the MSQ as an afterthought.

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Same, I disliked IFTC not cause of difficulty (I didn’t find any, played on release), but because it didn’t make sense. It disregarded previous lore for purely shock value and didn’t know what to do with itself properly (it is a traumatic event, anyone?) so was thrown away right after by everyone around you. Pretty underwhelming.

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Originally Posted by Torashiki

You dont know what you are talking about. There are things to criticize about him but basically nothing about what you said is true.

The entire reason he was able to fix FFXIV is that he was, in fact, passionate about MMORPGs for years. The entire reason why he was able to fix FFXIV is that he has an understanding of MMOs while the 1.0 team didnt - they understood single player RPGs. Yoshi-P was out there on Tokyo trying to find Ultima Online install CDs years before a lot of the FFXIV playerbase played their first videogame.

That his ideas and direction disagree with some people's ideas doesnt mean he ''is just a businessman'' or that he isnt passionate about game development. The man has to be kept down and made to rest because he overworks himself constantly.

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I'm willing to be wrong here, but to be frank I'm not feeling it. I invite him to make me eat my words, I'd be overjoyed even. But so far all I see is a company that feels disconnected from its audience and utterly indifferent to anything they say.
Yeah I get it the stuff about 1.0 and ARR. I get those things are impressive to you, and they are. But you need to understand, the triumphant rise of A realm reborn saving 1.0 happened over a decade ago.

Dawntrail is now. I'm asking if he is as passionate as you say about game development, then where is it? Where did it go? Because its not in Dawntrail. And its not in XVI either.

We are not asking elden ring level of open world but any random gatcha game these days could serve the job,.

This video didn't explain why it's focusing on Yoshi really other than, top guy = buck stops with him
Sort of valid, but it's a bit of a bait title considering how little it really sites actions that are 'definitely' Yoshi.
Ignoring the title though the video kind of rings true.
I haven't liked an FF 'really' since XII, for an these reasons.
XIII, too Railtrack
XV I gather went quite railtack
XVII looks like a Railtrack movie
XVI I'm sorry, I started it, battle with accessories was not very engaging, and battle without for me was immediately confusing and too hard, but there was nothing enticing me too continue and practice and get better. (The medieval world didn't vibe with my personal tastes either)
Resting on 'just' story is risky, DT is a perfect example of this. (It certainly doesn't work for me)

I won't be back for 'just' MSQ if the next expansion, unless they slash the price. Little voice over. Very little 'quality' cutscene animation. (Stick figure in game animation)

When you think about it £30+£7 if you don't feel any of the MSQ 'gameplay' is worth repeating is not great value.
Thats about £10 shy of a full blown A* title (maybe not on new release) that you can play 'forever'. I saw Cyber 2077 was about £50 the other day.

Gameplay is important. If what you do isn't relevant or doesn't have impact there is no game. At least not in RP.

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Originally Posted by Gurgeh

This video didn't explain why it's focusing on Yoshi really other than, top guy = buck stops with him

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Did you not watch the video? Yoshi P's mindset is that he does not want to leave any players behind by having them struggle, so he ensures that Final Fantasy XIV and Final Fantasy XVI are incredibly simple on a gameplay standpoint, which makes the game themselves feel incredibly shallow and it shows. There's a pattern with how Yoshi P approached game design that does become evident in other projects that he is a part of (that being XVI). Because Final Fantasy XVI gearing system is completely shallow and pointless. There's like a lack of options, but it gives you the illusion that there is when there really isn't. Yoshi P may just be a producer of XVI, but he does have a HUGE influence on how its designed.

I'm pretty sure that a good majority of players are fed up with Yoshi P choosing to not innovate the recent games he's been part of, and they really do want more innovation with a game that has now felt outdated for many years. But we're just not getting it. Yet, when we criticise Yoshi P, the people who are so emotionally attached to Yoshi P do not take it well, and they start chucking a tantrum. But the thing is, Yoshi P works for a company, and these company are not your friends, yet people treat them like they are due to one sole person. If they refuse to innovate FFXIV same old basic formula, then there is nothing people can look forward to, given that the writing of the game has gone to complete trash with the evidence of Dawntrail. So what is going to keep the average player coming back now?

So yes, the title is justified.

tl;dr: Yoshi P should be fairly held accountable for the stagnation of his game design philosophy, and no one should defend bad game design choices out of emotional attachment, especially when you are a paying customer for a live service. You are not a friend of Square Enix just because you think Yoshi P's your friend.

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Originally Posted by Edelgarde

Did you not watch the video? Yoshi P's mindset is that he ...

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Yes I did watch the whole video. It was very anecdotal, and I lot of 'extrapolation' from "this one thing Yoshi said off the cuff 7 years ago"

Yes I did watch it.
Good video, and I get the title. But it isn't 'heavy' on Yoshi
Most of what I see in CS3s games I see in other FFtitles for years, little to do with Yoshi.
Yes I did watch the video. I like it. It has something that rings very relevant.