Healing Focus or DPS Focus

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by vetch

1) Wow it sounds like you should give up on both, then.

2) How turbo-bads play isn't relevant to me. I want to contribute to my party, I would prefer to contribute more healing but will press whatever buttons I have, and a really tedious DPS kit will chase me off of a job before it makes me consider purposely not contributing.

3) Plenty of content will still be fun. Coils and Alex, Dun Scaith, Thordan EX, Sephirot EX, UCOB, UWU, dungeons where they actually let tanks mega-pull.

---

1) that’s not even remotely relevant to the point, acting like we opened with compromise is wrong
2) why do you assume anything they add will be “really tedious”
3) if that was enough content to make healer enjoyable we wouldn’t be having this conversation

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by vetch

More healing, please. And more resource management. And I know this one is probably like asking for a unicorn, but some battlefield control gameplay would be nice, too.

I don't find DPSing this game's damage sponges and HP sacks particularly fun so I don't care whether that aspect gets changed -- unless they stick a really annoying damage kit on a healer I otherwise like, and then I care very much.

---

Good for you. But I find the current DPS options to be a "really annoying damage kit" and I want that changed. If you don't care it gets changed unless it gets worse, I don't see why you're so against the more dps options.

Quote:

---

"But, but, but," I hear all the little DPS lovers saying...

"I want more healing too but the devs will never give it to us so I'm asking for something I think I can get!"
Go to the library and look for guides on how to negotiate. You don't start from your compromise position.

---

Super already answered this. Most of us want both. However, if I had to choose between one or the other I'd want more dps options instead. We have more than enough healing that can be REMOVED and it'd actually make things a bit more interesting all without even touching fight design.

Quote:

---

"If you don't like the new DPS buttons you don't have to press them!"
Yes you do. It's called valuing your party members' time.

---

And people who don't even press what little dps buttons we currently have clearly don't value said time. Thus, if they don't like the new additions, they can keep ignoring it as they have been. They don't want more dps options because all they want to do is sit there and heal, not contribute. More dps options is NOT going to stop them from doing that.

Quote:

---

"They're not going to go back and change the old fights to require more healing."
Who asked for that? They didn't go back and change Coils or Alex when they changed healers in ShB, so why does it matter now that old raids have different healing requirements?

---

Me. I did. Because old fights are boring as hell and deserve to be fixed. ESPECIALLY considering they already went back and made some fights WORSE just to make trusts more viable.

I want more healing and I want a less boring dps kit to occupy my time when healing isn't needed. But if I have to choose one, its going to be the dps kit. I use that more in the game than my healing. And it has been BEYOND boring for 2 expansions.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Allegor

Not only are tanks expected to hold aggro and be wary of when to use their own defensives, they also get to assist the party if/when needed with healing and mits (specially PLD and moreso WAR), and have a handful of dps buttons to keep them engaged, all the while thinking that the average healer player can't handle half of that without getting overwhelmed.

I will never shut up about how absolutely patronizing this double standard is.

ALSO: seeing the new tank actions, only WAR seems to be getting some sort of defensive shield, while the other 3 get even more damage skills! exactly what they (don't) need!

---

The difference is that tank have very few tanking ogcd compared to how many healing skills we have.
Which I suppose is part of their reasoning, "you got 20+ healing skills, we aim at 23-24 skills overall, so you only have 3 dps skills, 5 if you're a sage because you need to run that Kardia".

However, what saddens me is that much could be done by adding only 2-3 dps skills and tying things more neatly together, by removing / revamping existing skills in order to keep that ~24 active skills target.

And if keeping 22-24 skills is of utmost importance to them, I feel some sacrifice on the healing front (simplification) wouldn't be so dramatic...
For instance, like... I don't know, making medicaII/aspected helios devolve into medica/helios if cast in succession. Sure, there are situation where you'd actually want the extra 100 potency now rather than the HoT. But overall, in most situation where you'd actually cast 2 medica in a row, you would do MedicaII > MedicaI. So loosing access to MedicaI alone wouldn't be so bad if it means getting a new dps skill.

It really feels bad that our only mean of improving our DPS is how well we can slide cast...
It's kind of weird because, I'm currently progging TOP and tried up to P4 on all 4 healers. The easiest by far was Sage because I had access to more than "slide cast".

The lack of DPS options on all 3 healers made dpsing harder than on the healer with the most DPS skills. (fair, they're all instant...)

It baffles me that they consider being restricted to 11111111111111111111111 easier than having more options... AST (not considering card weaving) was by far the hardest healer to upkeep a good dps specifically because of the lack of instant gcd. It's slide cast or nothing. (And Slidecast Panto and P3 when towers are at the side are a pain)

Tanks can’t handle all that’s expected of them- buff them so far that their failures mean nothing thus allowing them to maintain their systems and a lot of their fun

Healers can’t handle all that’s expected of them- simplify them so far that they can’t fail………at the expense of any remotely decent job design

The double standard is garbage. When the tank sucks the tank gets buffed to compensate and the healer gets nothing, when the healer sucks the tank also gets buffed while the healer gets simplified

Healers just never seem to win

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by T-Owl

I have to say that the lack of a DPS rotation or any variation in abilities also really hurts my personal enjoyment playing with a Healer through the story. In Solo duties, it is just pressing the same button over and over again after all, imagine fighting the final fight of Endwalkers Mainstory as a White Mage. It generally makes all solo player content as a healer boring. If anything Healers in FF14 proof that it isn't enough to ramp up the dps so that you can kill stuff solo, you also need to have some tools to keep it exciting.

---

I did that fight as a white mage. It was a bit slow since healers don't hit that hard, but I had fun with the fight.

I have done it twice once as SCH.
I am pretty sure his health is nerfed if you're a healer, the only fun I had was using it to practice my slide casting lol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sylvain

The difference is that tank have very few tanking ogcd compared to how many healing skills we have.
Which I suppose is part of their reasoning, "you got 20+ healing skills, we aim at 23-24 skills overall, so you only have 3 dps skills, 5 if you're a sage because you need to run that Kardia".

However, what saddens me is that much could be done by adding only 2-3 dps skills and tying things more neatly together, by removing / revamping existing skills in order to keep that ~24 active skills target.
)

---

I am willing to lose dissipation for the return of Miasma or shadowflare, Square Enix, despite how amazing dissipation is and how it isnt a basically a 3 minute 300 potency attack. I know this is a controversal choice but please ffxiv players don't hurt me for this opinion.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ramiee

I am willing to lose dissipation for the return of Miasma or shadowflare, Square Enix, despite how amazing dissipation is and how it isnt a basically a 3 minute 300 potency attack. I know this is a controversal choice but please ffxiv players don't hurt me for this opinion.

---

I think blessing would be a better skill to lose

It’s about the only useless skill in SCH’s kit

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ramiee

I am willing to lose dissipation for the return of Miasma or shadowflare, Square Enix, despite how amazing dissipation is and how it isnt a basically a 3 minute 300 potency attack. I know this is a controversal choice but please ffxiv players don't hurt me for this opinion.

---

No. Not Dissipation. It has its use. Aetherpact, Summon Seraph, Fey Blessing are good candidates for removal..

Edit.. to some extent, even Physick can be removed in favor of a potency boost to Embrace.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Supersnow845

1) that’s not even remotely relevant to the point, acting like we opened with compromise is wrong
2) why do you assume anything they add will be “really tedious”
3) if that was enough content to make healer enjoyable we wouldn’t be having this conversation

---

1) Giving up on what you want is what's wrong. If someone won't come to the negotiating table at all, your plan should be to get them to the table, not start the compromise process without them. YoshiP said that he won't return to the era of involved healer DPS kits just like he's said that he won't up the healing requirements, yet here we both are, still asking for those because it's what we want.

2) Thank you for asking. It's because the DPS jobs are tedious. Like, they don't use crowd control anymore, they don't or barely use interrupts, they don't use punishes, they don't have difficult resource management choices, there are no buff- or debuff-centric jobs, there's no pet management, half the buttons are glorified auto-attacks including on the casters, they all burst instead of using any other damage profile, their burst gauges all automatically fill in time as long as you keep your skills on cooldown. This is what I have to look forward to?

3) I think what you're saying is that they can't offload the burden of fun entirely onto the content and I agree, I just think it's really wrong to call the old content a boring beige disaster. ARR/HW-era content outshines modern stuff.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ASkellington

We have more than enough healing that can be REMOVED and it'd actually make things a bit more interesting all without even touching fight design.

---

Yes, this is true. When I say I want more healing I mean healing requirements, not more skills. Healing kits need to be pruned drastically, they're basically complete at level 60 or 70. It won't do to keep piling new healing skills onto them because it just creates solutions in search of problems, which then deforms the fight design.

Quote:

---

Me. I did. Because old fights are boring as hell and deserve to be fixed. ESPECIALLY considering they already went back and made some fights WORSE just to make trusts more viable.

---

Tighter ilevel sync would fix them without requiring full overhauls and it's probably the best way to approach it when you look at the kind of carnage they inflicted on the ARR&HW dungeons. I don't know how you can look at those changes, hate them, and then say "please do the rest of the fights too."