Rival Wings balancing needs a major rework.

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Originally Posted by Teno

This is RW, some jobs are extremely reliant on their lb to fill their niche, and they're significantly less menacing without it, to the point of what I said precisely because of how lb generation works.

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Which jobs do you feel are less menacing? Genuinely want to know because this sounds like a generalization with no specific basis.

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Originally Posted by Teno

And because of the smaller pool of players grinding the game mode, and it being more niche, there are many good people who use their LB to great effect, and they're very centralizing.

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Listen I can't claim to know how your games go but when I play RW and see people complaining it's generally them running around with no stacks thinking they can throw down with the 20 stack DRG who has been playing the objectives with his team. You can't really get mad at the DRG for playing correctly in that situation. I don't think the problem is the lb generation which only happens at 20 stacks. It's the fact that you're supposed to go read how to play on the lodestone and who does that? We also have a large influx of wow players and if you have ever played an RBG in wow you'll understand.

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Originally Posted by Elfidan

Which jobs do you feel are less menacing? Genuinely want to know because this sounds like a generalization with no specific basis.



Listen I can't claim to know how your games go but when I play RW and see people complaining it's generally them running around with no stacks thinking they can throw down with the 20 stack DRG who has been playing the objectives with his team. You can't really get mad at the DRG for playing correctly in that situation. I don't think the problem is the lb generation which only happens at 20 stacks. It's the fact that you're supposed to go read how to play on the lodestone and who does that? We also have a large influx of wow players and if you have ever played an RBG in wow you'll understand.

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Play more RW games, lb generation works early on. That's why you see dragoons jumping or drk using lb within seconds of a few mid kills -which fill the bar- hence the snowball (but in the grand scheme of the game it means nothing so please don't afk if you lose mid).
That kind of early snowball usually means that some groups get 5 kills, lb, get another x kills, lb again, and are 10-15-20 stacks. And at 20 stacks lb generation is boosted by 50%. Now without lb monks suddenly lose their biggest appeal, summoners just don't apply enough pressure, dragoons are not as meta (still very much are) anymore being significantly less threatening on objectives, same for white mages, dark knights, gunbreakers and so on... LB is centralizing with how you can get it.

Also related to what I said again, the many good players have very much read what their job does lol. And it's not wow players. I'm talking about long time top 100 players, people with 100s of FL behind them, hardcore achievement hunters (and they're good). RW is filled with people who poured hundreds of hours into pvp. Of course there's more diversity right now since the treasure trove event is ongoing, which is good for the queues.

And I've never seen people complaining about an early 20 stacks dragoon. If anything, people who don't look at the map are the source of complaints.

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Originally Posted by Teno

Play more RW games, lb generation works early on.

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You're confusing the job speeds with the buff generation increase. DRK is always 105s without the buff and 90s for DRG. That lines up with the center fight. If it's gobby juice your whole team is getting an adrenaline gauge off it if you win. for reference: https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes.../hidden-gorge/

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Originally Posted by Teno

Now without lb monks suddenly lose their biggest appeal, summoners just don't apply enough pressure, dragoons are not as meta (still very much are) anymore being significantly less threatening on objectives, same for white mages, dark knights, gunbreakers and so on... LB is centralizing with how you can get it.

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These are some really weird opinions that don't seem too fleshed out. To paraphrase 'People with less damage buff can't do damage against people with damage buff without limit break.' If you focus targets you don't really have to worry about that now do you?

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Originally Posted by Teno

Also related to what I said again, the many good players have very much read what their job does lol. And it's not wow players. I'm talking about long time top 100 players, people with 100s of FL behind them, hardcore achievement hunters (and they're good).

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Achievement hunters, like Bill the speed hacking Oppressor pilot? sure.

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Originally Posted by Elfidan

You're confusing the job speeds with the buff generation increase. DRK is always 105s without the buff and 90s for DRG. That lines up with the center fight. If it's gobby juice your whole team is getting an adrenaline gauge off it if you win. for reference: https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes.../hidden-gorge/


These are some really weird opinions that don't seem too fleshed out. To paraphrase 'People with less damage buff can't do damage against people with damage buff without limit break.' If you focus targets you don't really have to worry about that now do you?


Achievement hunters, like Bill the speed hacking Oppressor pilot? sure.

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First point : no... your LB fills upon kills. Really, play more games. Surely you've had lb back to back on an early mid... Check out the discord if you want to learn more.

Second point : I don't understand what you're implying. Best evidence would be to play those jobs a lot and picture them without their lb.
"Just focus" is not something that happens in PUG, especially when mechs are often a priority above other specific targets (but the non meta classes are often the targets of good players anyway, since they know that these might not be the most experienced players).

Third point : oh, you're that guy. There was one speed hacking oppressor a little while ago, got mass reported and hasn't been seen since. Reminds me of someone who complained about win trading in RW lol. These instances are not common and RW players are not stupid. Of course some speed hackers do it in more subtle ways (like arriving mid a sec or two before opponents for an easy drk pull), or you've got the infamous whm's instant polymorph which is not uncommon. But it is what it is, just thoroughly reporting is what I do, and then move on.

There is a charge timer on the gauge that differs per job. You can increase the rate via performance but if you are getting LB back to back one of two things has happened.
1: you focused and synergized a party kill where you got the kill shots for all of them (guard button doesn't exist?)
2: you won the tug of war and got juiced.
You're very condescending for someone with such a meager profile.

What I'm implying is that people don't sequence their abilities correctly for maximum effect. This is why most people think SAM sucks without it's LB. Same goes for MNK in general or Ranged DPS in large scale.
Maybe focusing isn't pug meta but it can be, and dare I say it should be.

That guy? The one who made a specific example when you continue to generalize. 'They're good bro!' Who's they? Reporting is basically wasted time as nothing happens unless it's publicized and then only because it hurts the company image. See world first cheaters, Asmongold griefers or the like.

Honestly Limits happen too often in all large scale and their effects are weird because they are balanced for CC which is a problem that needs addressed. Maybe we can get the producer of the hit upcoming game Final Fantasy XVI: Devil May Cry 6 to talk to the producer of the hit game Final Fantasy XIV: Pile a Menus about it when he finished his work on the game.

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Originally Posted by Elfidan

There is a charge timer on the gauge that differs per job. You can increase the rate via performance but if you are getting LB back to back one of two things has happened.
1: you focused and synergized a party kill where you got the kill shots for all of them (guard button doesn't exist?)
2: you won the tug of war and got juiced.
You're very condescending for someone with such a meager profile.

What I'm implying is that people don't sequence their abilities correctly for maximum effect. This is why most people think SAM sucks without it's LB. Same goes for MNK in general or Ranged DPS in large scale.
Maybe focusing isn't pug meta but it can be, and dare I say it should be.

That guy? The one who made a specific example when you continue to generalize. 'They're good bro!' Who's they? Reporting is basically wasted time as nothing happens unless it's publicized and then only because it hurts the company image. See world first cheaters, Asmongold griefers or the like.

Honestly Limits happen too often in all large scale and their effects are weird because they are balanced for CC which is a problem that needs addressed. Maybe we can get the producer of the hit upcoming game Final Fantasy XVI: Devil May Cry 6 to talk to the producer of the hit game Final Fantasy XIV: Pile a Menus about it when he finished his work on the game.

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You said LB generation is only tied to 20 stacks and gobbiejuice. I explained to you that kills fill it up as you semed to not know ? Hence lbs back to back, nothing more to it.

Also condescending ? Meager profile ? Speak for yourself. You came up all high and pedant, as if you knew all of the game mode, and you don't with the amount of games you have (nor do I for that matter). Just go read the discord at this point, it'll be much more helpful and you'll get more out of it than arguing with me. Very good players with literally thousands of games constantly drop solid info over there. This is not CC/FL.

As for the hackers/wintraders/etc... truth be told, the one speed hacker with the oppressor was never to be seen again. Maybe nothing happened and they just stopped playing but letting it go certainly doesn't help... but it's another debate and you're no SE's rep/gm so we don't know why and how.

Edit : and yes I find lb generation very unfun in many instances in RW, especially when a team steamrolls the other, chains lbs and most of the time it prevents a comeback in that specific fight.

I'm glad you found a resource that you feel is helping you become better. Unwanted advice is fine but when someone let's you know they don't need your input and you continue that's harassment by the way. Keep you mentoring in the novice network where it belongs.

Yes the 50% increase is tied to 20 stacks and there are also performance based nudges but you are always generating at a set rate based on job. The reason you feel like you get an immediate extra bar is for certain thanks to swinging an objective while succeeding in the melee without dying or because you secured the bonus from the supply drop(more objectives btw).

This all started because You don't seem to know what you think about LB. You began by saying slower LB was bad because jobs need them to fill their niche. Then you said MNK and SMN are unappealing sans the frequent LB. This somehow drifted into you hero worshipping unnamed achievement hunters who may or may not be cheating but do it subtly if they are. And now we're come full circle to I also don't find LB generation fun.

https://i.imgur.com/EIe799w.jpg

I'll try harder to reach your lofty expectations. In the meanwhile I'll pass on the Discord for the same reason I pass on all those valued shopper cards everyone tries to stick you with. But by all means you enjoy.

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Originally Posted by Elfidan

I'm glad you found a resource that you feel is helping you become better. Unwanted advice is fine but when someone let's you know they don't need your input and you continue that's harassment by the way. Keep you mentoring in the novice network where it belongs.

Yes the 50% increase is tied to 20 stacks and there are also performance based nudges but you are always generating at a set rate based on job. The reason you feel like you get an immediate extra bar is for certain thanks to swinging an objective while succeeding in the melee without dying or because you secured the bonus from the supply drop(more objectives btw).

This all started because You don't seem to know what you think about LB. You began by saying slower LB was bad because jobs need them to fill their niche. Then you said MNK and SMN are unappealing sans the frequent LB. This somehow drifted into you hero worshipping unnamed achievement hunters who may or may not be cheating but do it subtly if they are. And now we're come full circle to I also don't find LB generation fun.

https://i.imgur.com/EIe799w.jpg

I'll try harder to reach your lofty expectations. In the meanwhile I'll pass on the Discord for the same reason I pass on all those valued shopper cards everyone tries to stick you with. But by all means you enjoy.

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Unwanted advice ? you said lb generation is tied to 20 stacks and gobbiejuice, I told you kills fill it up, as you didn't know. Nothing more to it, once again. Keep your snarky and irrelevant remarks to yourself instead of coming at me (that's also harassment btw) and redirecting me to incomplete resources that don't picture it all.

And I didn't say slower LB was bad, on the contrary ? I said LBs back to back are busted and make some jobs overcentralizing. And that by playing many games you'll see how these jobs in conjunction with the ability to chain LBs is so strong.

Also, I'm talking about achievement hunters amongst top pvp players as a reference to people who have played pvp a lot. Don't twist the subject please. That's in direct reference to knowing who you play with and against, and how they usually play because you're bound to meet them many times in this niche game mode.

And finally that screenshot... Also don't think I bear any kind of animosity, it's all fun and game to me, I'm addicted to RW. I just referenced the discord because it has information you don't find elsewhere for this niche content, and this is how I'm able to consistently play RW games with a good community and some good matches.
Well, have a good day sir.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Elfidan

I'm glad you found a resource that you feel is helping you become better. Unwanted advice is fine but when someone let's you know they don't need your input and you continue that's harassment by the way. Keep you mentoring in the novice network where it belongs.

Yes the 50% increase is tied to 20 stacks and there are also performance based nudges but you are always generating at a set rate based on job. The reason you feel like you get an immediate extra bar is for certain thanks to swinging an objective while succeeding in the melee without dying or because you secured the bonus from the supply drop(more objectives btw).

This all started because You don't seem to know what you think about LB. You began by saying slower LB was bad because jobs need them to fill their niche. Then you said MNK and SMN are unappealing sans the frequent LB. This somehow drifted into you hero worshipping unnamed achievement hunters who may or may not be cheating but do it subtly if they are. And now we're come full circle to I also don't find LB generation fun.

https://i.imgur.com/EIe799w.jpg

I'll try harder to reach your lofty expectations. In the meanwhile I'll pass on the Discord for the same reason I pass on all those valued shopper cards everyone tries to stick you with. But by all means you enjoy.

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Why are NIN players like this?

I play everything Kathleen.

https://imgur.com/cmvZjx0