Remove melee throw weapon abilities?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nama

Don't really see the need for any melee or tank class to need to have a separate button just for ranged when any piece of everyone's 1-2-3 could just have increased range. Current ranged options exist to be less dps and combo breakers for melee's out of range. You can replicate that function by say put increased range on combo enders. They have reduced potency outside the combo so opening or spamming so a ninja using say aeolian edge instead of throwing dagger is functionally the same outside of the occasional instance you retreat while on step 2 of the combo. Even then those occasions could be a reward for proper timing or good play and would let the player feel better about not having to ruin a combo if they need to step back for a minute. Could argue that you learn your ranged attack earlier then your step 3 combo ender but why not just learn that sooner instead. It wouldn't unbalance anything that early and would give new players something that they would actually use alot sooner.

---

The idea could work with a trait that turns the ranged attack into the combo finisher when proc'd (Throwing Dagger becomes Aeolean Edge in this example)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Morningstar1337

The idea could work with a trait that turns the ranged attack into the combo finisher when proc'd (Throwing Dagger becomes Aeolean Edge in this example)

---

And then you realize that ninja has two different finisher for the same combo, and you begin to wonder how Throwing Dagger can turn into two weaponskill at the same time... :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eliadil

And then you realize that ninja has two different finisher for the same combo, and you begin to wonder how Throwing Dagger can turn into two weaponskill at the same time... :D

---

That could be fixed by having a second branch for the 2nd finsishier so instead of 123 and 124 it's be 123 and 145

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Morningstar1337

That could be fixed by having a second branch for the 2nd finsishier so instead of 123 and 124 it's be 123 and 145

---

So you want to add a new combo button so we can get rid of the button for the ranged attack?

And when you are on a tank and you need your ranged move to pull an add but the combo finisher says nope?

This whole idea is causing more problems than it solves.

Best change would be that the ranged moves don't interrupt combos and nothing more.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

There is zero interest in Piercing Talon were it breaking your combo makes it functionally worthless. It takes four uses for Piercing Talon to beat Full Thrust. And that isn't including the damage lost for breaking your combo. This is why it's actually better for Dragoons to do literally nothing than ever touch Piercing Talon. Even in E8S, which is absolutely brutal for melee, Dragoon will resort to their AoE combo or just do nothing since combos last 15 seconds.

All that aside, why would any of the Melee need a nerf? Even if they buffed Piercing Talon to say, 300 potency. It's still a damage loss, thus something you'll avoid. Of course, I'm also in the camp Range DPS shouldn't be taxed nearly as much (or really, at all). So buff them and it's all a wash.

---

Okay then maybe an exception can be made for DRG or maybe some middle ground, I haven't leveld DRG myself so I can't comment on that. I just like the fact that you want to finish a combo before running off and would rather have ranged attacks not be something you'll just be spamming on impulse every time you move away, no matter your position on the combo, but rather something that's disruptive to your main rotation and needs to be considered before using. Most of my melee experience is with tanks though so maybe my preference isn't all that relevant to this topic.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SamRF

Okay then maybe an exception can be made for DRG or maybe some middle ground, I haven't leveld DRG myself so I can't comment on that. I just like the fact that you want to finish a combo before running off and would rather have ranged attacks not be something you'll just be spamming on impulse every time you move away, no matter your position on the combo, but rather something that's disruptive to your main rotation and needs to be considered before using. Most of my melee experience is with tanks though so maybe my preference isn't all that relevant to this topic.

---

I understand what you're saying, however, keep in mind that while the basic rotation of a tank usually consist of 123 combo or eventually 124 sometimes as well, for a melee like dragoon or samurai, breaking combos is the equivalent of having to restart your whole rotation, because it delays a 8+ GCD rotation. As a dragoon you have to make sure that you can keep your dot up at all time, as well as your damage buff. Your rotation consist of a 10GCD loop that you cannot break because you risk losing either the dot or the damage buff if you're really unlucky. So breaking a combo here just means restarting the 10 GCD combo from the beginning. As a samurai this gets even worse, because by breaking a combo you delay a Midare, which is mandatory to proc Tsubame, your 1min burst. You don't delay it by one GCD however, you delay it by a full Midare rotation (9GCD), which can be really detrimental once you begin to look at party raid buffs.

Monk doesn't have this issue, but it doesn't suffer as much as the other melees due to meditation, just like Ninja can maybe plan a ninjutsu to avoid an aoe. But for the other two, the question isn't even there. You can't use your ranged attack because it messes everything.
Tbh, I would be surprised to see an actual opportunity present itself more than three time in the whole expansion for both jobs, and I don't see the devs planning a fight and thinking "oh what if we put an aoe there, so the melee can avoid it AND use their ranged attack for once ?"

Ranged attack is a dps loss on melees anyway. But just making the option available would be better than not having it at all.

Generally, I am against removing abilities. They can simply just not be placed on the hotbar.