Why use a Dragoon or Monk when you can use a Warrior?

oh look, i can aoe spam things with steel cyclone !
Well, screw it. War alone isn't any more potent of drg, and much lower of mnk (i'm speaking in a fight without adds). If a dragoon or monk can't surpass a dd warrior, the problem it's probably on the players playing drg/mnk.

Yes, war it's powerful, but not SO powerful to prevent any other DD

-Within a 10 sec Window WAR gets off 1 WS or a 3 WS Combo ( Slow AA, Slow TP Gain etc)

-Within a 10 sec Window DRG get 2-3 WS or a 3 WS X 3 (max)= 9 WS (Fast AA, Fast TP Gain + Invigorate)

It's only NATURAL for a WAR to hit harder in 1 go because of WAR's Being all slow to Weaponskill. From 1 Solid Hit View of things Yes your right they hit Hard.. but when you do it over a Course of a Full battle, Which one comes out on top ( or is it even?).

Why would it matter what WAR does? As long as you love your Job all else doesn't matter But you and Your Job!

no one suspect this is a troll thread ? o.0

It's not a troll thread.
Even if your opinion is different, it's legitimate concern regarding all jobs in relation to one another. This thread just happens to be focused on warrior.

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Originally Posted by Shneibel

no one suspect this is a troll thread ? o.0

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Given the frequency in those forums for 'troll' threads to be completely true and sincere posts... It's safer to assume it's not.
And even when it IS a troll thread, it takes at best 5 posts for it to turns into an ACTUAL thing with everyone taking the trolling seriously.

I don't think it is that unbalanced.. and even i f it was... SE is more likely to nerf WAR than buff the other 2... so it would only hurt the community as a whole

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Originally Posted by Rydin

Here is the issue....
All three classes can do damage and 1 (or multiple) other thing(s) well
So look at it like math
A = A set amount of damage potential
B = Tanking

A + B = WAR
A + C = DRG
A + D = MNK

At this point... all that needs to happen is B = C = D and all classes are equal....
So DRG has to be as good at its secondary thing as WAR is at tanking... and that thing needs to be as useful as WAR's tanking

So C = TP generation, More effective ways to stun than WAR has and enmity reduction
and D = increased TP generation, Speed, Speed, Speed, Elemental Fists (Which are INSANELY USEFUL... maybe the most underrated thing in the game right now) and also more stuns than WAR has

So if B =/= C =/= D then they are at least very close

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More complicated then it needed to be but exactly. Ill give an easy list on why you use drg over war:

1) I get tp a lot faster
2) I do more dmg
3) I have less enmity
4) I'm not taking nearly as much dmg
5) I'm a pure dps, WAR is not.

DRG outdmgs WAR point blank..unless that DRG fails at life. DRG can spam skills non-stop without ever worrying about taking enmity thanks to elusive jump and the -enmity armor. Power Surge+TP gain+enmity drop= dmg a WAR wishes they could do over a long battle. This thread is full of job ignorance, its like no one knows what they are talking about except for a select few. Even DRGs are clueless and believe this "useless job" drivel. Ridiculous.

Monk outdmgs a WAR point blank as well. Its AA is superior, first of all. Add in elemental fists, ridiculous WS's, and you have MNK's rivalling mages on the parser. Oh yeah, they dont top the hate list either.

The problem with WAR as a dps is that it gains too much enmity for inferior dmg. This causes hate to bounce around, which is a nightmare for WHMS, which causes the party to wipe. The only way to avoid this is if the WAR holds back a lot, since a lot of MRD/WAR skills generate enmity. This means a lot less dmg, which means all those MNKS and DRGs are outdmging you by quite a bit. IMO have a WAR tank, or have a PLD tank. Having both is a disaster waiting to happen unless the WAR knows how to hold back on his skills.

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Originally Posted by Clair

I know this. This is what I've been saying in this very thread.



TP generation is just more damage for now. DRG has two stun moves, Leg Sweep which while quite handy is fairly crap damage and Heavy Thrust which only stuns when the target is attacking you (while not doing the thing people are citing as DRG's greatest strength right now, avoiding hate. Whereas WAR's stun weaponskill can stun while they're doing something they excel at, having monsters attacking them.)

Leg Sweep - Bad damage, stuns after a combo from True Thrust which is used in the front (somewhere a DRG isn't going to be as often as WAR), 30 second recast.
Steel-cyclone - Good damage, doesn't even need to combo for the stun effect to go off, 30 second recast.

Does DRG have a slight advantage when it comes to stunning monsters? Maybe? Depending on the situation? Well that's not enough. Like I said before, I'd rather have the extra 2k HP thank you very much.

If they can't give DRG more utility than WAR, they need to increase it's damage. Just like you said, balance out damage + utility.

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^ This.
I hate the fact that True Thrust > Heavy Thrust will only stun if you're being targeted by the mob. This was changed for 1.21 mind you. It use to stun period.

Two stuns + elusive jump = Decent chance at evading/stopping certain TP attacks that could potentially kill a DRG. It makes no sense that a DRG have a combo that stuns when being targeted when the whole idea is to minimize your enmity. The AF screams this with a whopping -15 enmity on feet alone. another -10 on hands. When is the mob ever going to be facing you? (A mob that is going to be able to kill you that is.)

If you get me nerfed I swear to god I'll hunt you down, man.

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Originally Posted by SirOleas

^ This.
I hate the fact that True Thrust > Heavy Thrust will only stun if you're being targeted by the mob. This was changed for 1.21 mind you. It use to stun period.

Two stuns + elusive jump = Decent chance at evading/stopping certain TP attacks that could potentially kill a DRG. It makes no sense that a DRG have a combo that stuns when being targeted when the whole idea is to minimize your enmity. The AF screams this with a whopping -15 enmity on feet alone. another -10 on hands. When is the mob ever going to be facing you? (A mob that is going to be able to kill you that is.)

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Really? Because I'm pretty sure it makes complete sense.

What happens when all of your enmity reduce skills happen to be on cool-down.
It is a glass cannon, so when you DO pull enmity your screwed if you cant stop something from attacking you.
The BEST solution is to keep it stunned until you can successfully rid yourself of enmity.
That particular combo is not meant JUST for damage, its meant as a safty net.

I think people need to look closer at how things work in this game because they obviously arnt.
I haven't even maxed my classes but by reading skill descriptions, you can get a great estimate as to how something is supposed to be used.

SE has built multiple prevenative measures into each class. This is why DRG gets SO much enmity reduce. Yes, there may be an already low chance for something to hit you IF everything is going according to plan.