Alot of hate on new job iterations o.O

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Originally Posted by Drayos

Well eh it did in a way.

Dragoon+bard become a required combo.

Ninja was mandatory pretty much.

That locks down 3 dps spots instantly.

Then WHM was not meta, dark knight wasn’t meta..

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DRG + BRD was too good. NIN was flexible for SMN + BLM just because Contagion was pretty much better trick for BLM.

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Originally Posted by Drayos

Well eh it did in a way.

Dragoon+bard become a required combo.

Ninja was mandatory pretty much.

That locks down 3 dps spots instantly.

Then WHM was not meta, dark knight wasn’t meta..

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meta isn't really about balance it's more like people want to duplicate whatever is most successful, even if it isn't that much more successful than something else. People didn't lose fights because they didn't have a drg

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Originally Posted by SpeckledBurd

The forums tends to exaggerate a lot of the dissatisfaction people have with Jobs because it's where we come to give feedback, and the people most incentivized to actually provide that feedback are people who aren't satisfied. Someone on Reddit did a poll on how people felt about their Main jobs, which was then aggregated by a JP user and for the most part people were happy.
https://i.redd.it/m7yo4tdrmp831.png
Key: Dark Red: Very Satisfied, Light Red: Somewhat Satisfied, Yellow: Indifferent, light blue: Somewhat Dissatisfied, Dark Blue:Very Dissatisfied

While it isn't perfect since r/FFXIV isn't necessarily representative of the entire player base, it is a decent visualization on how people are probably feeling about it. Pretty much every job is getting at least a 70% general satisfaction or at the very least, 80% aren't unhappy with them. The only jobs that are complete botches to the players are Monk, Scholar and Astro. Everyone else is relatively happy.

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while yes, but FFLogs does kinda Show a Different opinon in some cases.

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Originally Posted by Gallus

SAM - Apparently plays well but has mediocre numbers. People are generally happy but would like slightly better damage.

MNK - Good numbers but plays strange. People aren't very happy.

NIN - Average numbers but good raid contribution like always. Apparently complicated. I think people are generally pleased with it.

DRG - Very good numbers (possibly too good), flows well, good raid contribution. People are very happy with it.

BRD - Apparently plays well but a good chunk of people are displeased with most of the removal of their support kit. Mixed feelings here. Some are happy, some are not.

MCH - Plays well. Very straightforward from what I've heard. Good numbers. People are happy.

RDM - Plays well. Has a few mana issues though. Other than that people aren't complaining much about it. Hasn't changed much since SB. People are generally happy with it.

BLM - Extremely good numbers. Lots of QoL changes. Better mobility, downtimes aren't a problem anymore with this class. People are very happy with it.

DNC - No idea. All I've heard is that the class is easy and relatively fun. I'd say most are content with it.

SMN -https://media.giphy.com/media/WtCcLH...ggxH/giphy.gif

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is it though :P, Because Summoner by PlayTime is Winning against majority above it :P, 3rd Most Played Job currently :P these two sights give very different opinons to what the community Put in that orginal Poll, i dont think this is a Co-incidence overall, as We know they look at logs and look at Underplayed Jobs as a Lack of Audience playing the job is generally a good indicator there is a problem.

so either, Peoples Minds changed after the Poll on the job, or the Silent Majority Do actually enjoy the new Summoner.


https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statistics/28#boss=1045

If u look at logs to what people are actually playing it'd be.

Dancer > Dragoon > Summoner > Bard > SAM > BLM > MCH > RDM > Ninja > Monk.

and while Monk does remain a Common Denominator, the other jobs have moved around ENTIRELY and while u could Say, "they're just messing around trying new things etc etc" that wouldnt contribute to Summoners holding 3,000 More parses then its Next in line.

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Originally Posted by Drayos

while yes, but FFLogs does kinda Show a Different opinon in some cases.



is it though :P, Because Summoner by PlayTime is Winning against majority above it :P, 3rd Most Played Job currently :P these two sights give very different opinons to what the community Put in that orginal Poll, i dont think this is a Co-incidence overall, as We know they look at logs and look at Underplayed Jobs as a Lack of Audience playing the job is generally a good indicator there is a problem.

so either, Peoples Minds changed after the Poll on the job, or the Silent Majority Do actually enjoy the new Summoner.


https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statistics/28#boss=1045

For example, Summoner, is the most memed on job here, yet holds 3rd Position in the most played job in trials, BLMS top, yet has a Lower Playtime then Even summoner does in this. Machinist being second yet Again Lower Played.

If u look at logs to what people are actually playing it'd be.

Dancer > Dragoon > Summoner > Bard > SAM > BLM > MCH > RDM > Ninja > Monk.

and while Monk does remain a Common Denominator, the other jobs have moved around ENTIRELY and while u could Say, "they're just messing around trying new things etc etc" that wouldnt contribute to Summoners holding 3,000 More parses then its Next in line.

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what people are playing doesn't tell you what's wrong with the job. There are tons of motivators outside of job design for why people play a class.


also fflogs is not a representitive sample, specific types of players seek out fflog

Opinion poll was before any dps numbers were out. So keep that in mind. As well as people just playing a job they want to enjoy. Like I even played one of the jobs I said was bad and contributed parses to that total. It's after playing it did I know it was bad because I know from experience other things were a lot better. Both in gameplay and damage.

I enjoy brd gameplay flow far more than I did beore, but I hate to see most of our utility gone. I like jack of all trades kind of classes who are ok at everything but not excelling at anything since I like laid back gaming. I play as good as I can and like improving but I dont analyze parses or beat myself up over having my dots drop occasionally - my "hardcore" days are long gone - but still was pretty useful to parties with mediocre DPS. Now I'm being judged more by the raw DPS I pull which puts me under more pressure and makes tiny mistakes way more impactul, which is not the kind of job I originally signed up for.

i like/dislike NIN , is was a fun job but now they added another layer , and the main issue is timing , and all that work for being one of the lowest dps

Rdm is ok , is just another spell after flare/holy , and a melee skill to avoid jumping back , reprise is meh , the new aoe rotation is ok but needs a mana boost , mp cost is too high but plays no different than SB to be honest , thats not bad but not good either , since others jobs received new toys to play with

Brd to me was butched , i played it because support and i love bow as weapon but now meh , it isnt a BRD job anymore , is like removing jump from drgs, makes no sense to me in the FF universe.

Monks are in a very weird place. Half the skills scream MORE SPEED. The other half says SLOW THE F DOWN!

Riddle of Earth doesn't work outside of raids since it requires you to be hit. Anatman doesn't work outside of raids because it requires you to stand still. Riddle of Wind seems nice, but you lose 10% damage from switching off Fists of Fire, so your damage boost is negated and you only get a bit of speed. Riddle of Fire still strips you of your speed. Really wish I had more to do during Riddle of Fire too. Even with the speed boost, I spend most of the time standing there than attacking. Brotherhood still only works on weaponskills and physical damage. Chakras are still luck based though up to 70% on critical hit from 50% once you reach level 74. Six-sided Star puts all your skills on double your normal GCD and feels like an improved Tornado Kick. Tornado Kick still useless though since it eats up all your Greased Lightning stacks and your basic string of combos has close enough potency anyways, so just ignore it.

The good news is that we now have a horizontal Kamehameha (Enlightenment) and a vertical one (Elixir Field). Four GL stacks feels great too.

I can only speak for dragoons as that's the one I've gotten to 80. I honestly enjoy it. I have some very minor gripes, such as a louder sound effect for Raiden Thrust, but I'm overall satisfied with it. I've gotten scholar and dark knight to 75 and so far they're meh; not completely terrible, but could use another look-over.

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Originally Posted by Poppet

Opinion poll was before any dps numbers were out. So keep that in mind. As well as people just playing a job they want to enjoy. Like I even played one of the jobs I said was bad and contributed parses to that total. It's after playing it did I know it was bad because I know from experience other things were a lot better. Both in gameplay and damage.

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This.

I'm leveling a WAR and a SMN right now, the WAR feels fine, my only wish is that they remove beast gauge cost of Onslaught so we could charge more often.

SMN on the other hand doesn't feel like a SMN at all, it should be called RUIN MAGE.
>Egis don't matter at all, contribute to like 2% of your dps
>Bahamut moving delays Akh Morn
>Skill bloat
>Energy Siphon should be merged into Energy Drain OR scraped altogether, feels like unnecessary bloat
>Dots being required for ruin to do damage makes you very weak if dots end but the mob is already dieing so it would be a waste to reapply dots too
>Too many timers to keep track, you look more at your hotbars than at mechanics

I could go on and on, but the worst offender of all, SMN feels weak and is parsing very weak too.