Please no more Eureka!

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Except that the Tome weapon was a casual alternative for the Savage weapon since the very beginning of Heavensward on top of being a better and more accessible weapon than the relic until almost the very end. Especially considering the most famous Anima step required to go collect items into Diadem, and having 8 different crafter specialists for very high level crafts...completely casual, right ? The only way for them to make the relic weapon shift more obvious would have been to call the tomestones "Tomestones of casuality".

Wondrous Tails was also created to have another incentive to go back to old content instead of using the relic for it because people were bored of the relic just reusing existing content.

Except that Yoshida clearly stated Eureka wouldn't be. So people felt betrayed by their assumption despite having been told the exact opposite.
Of course they can be faulted for it.

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Actually if you go back to some of their early live letters / interviews Yoshida stats that the Relic weapon was supposed to be the casual equivalent to the Savage weapon. Where the Savage weapon takes skill and teamwork to acquire power, the Relic took time time and patience to get the same level of Power. In ARR and HW I could keep upgrading my Relic weapon and never needed a Tomestone or Primal weapon. In SB however I've had to keep getting tome weapons since I can't stand Eureka. There has always been Crafted, Relic, Tomestone, and Savage weapons for Endgame. Deepdungeon weapons if you want to add catch up weapons. Eureka should have been another weapon added to the list of options. Not taking the place of one.

Please more Eureka!

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Originally Posted by Burningskull

Actually if you go back to some of their early live letters / interviews Yoshida stats that the Relic weapon was supposed to be the casual equivalent to the Savage weapon.

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In theory yes, but in fact, the tome weapon was always on par if not better.

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Originally Posted by Burningskull

Where the Savage weapon takes skill and teamwork to acquire power, the Relic took time time and patience to get the same level of Power.

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And the tome weapon requires less time and less patience for the same level of Power.

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Originally Posted by Burningskull

In ARR and HW I could keep upgrading my Relic weapon and never needed a Tomestone or Primal weapon.

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Well, considering the Anima was released in 3.15, you probably needed the Ravana weapon. And from 3.2 onward, the Anima weapon was never better than a non-upgraded tome weapon, except at the very end.

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Originally Posted by Burningskull

In SB however I've had to keep getting tome weapons since I can't stand Eureka.

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So, instead of farming Tomestones for your weapon in HW, you...farmed tomestone for your weapon in SB.

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Originally Posted by Burningskull

There has always been Crafted, Relic, Tomestone, and Savage weapons for Endgame. Deepdungeon weapons if you want to add catch up weapons.

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The problem is that Relic is in fact another Tome weapon. It's dumb to have two weapons buyable with the same currency, especially when the most expensive one is weaker. And the relic is a catch-up weapon. Never since HW the Relic has been a competitive weapon for brand new content.

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Originally Posted by Beckett

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The fact that you have only two ultimate fights and not three compared to Eureka having four (five if we include the Baldesion Arsenal) maps shows that making an ultimate fights is more resource intensive than Eureka. Even Yoshi P himself stated that making an ultimate fight is difficult and takes a lot of time even though it's aimed at the small number of really hardcore players that enjoy really difficult challenges. If doesn't take that much effort to make, they could have easily provided one with each raid tier. So should we complain that they're investing this much in to ultimate fights that is only aimed at a small number of people? And if you take a deeper look into Eureka designs. The only thing that is taking resources is just the map design and mob placement. Almost 90% of the mobs' meshes we already have in-game with their simple attack mechanics and the cutscenes don't even have motion capture. And I highly doubt that the logos system is taking a large portion of their resources.

You might use the "PVP has less maps also" but 1- Yoshi P didn't make any statements about it being difficult or time consuming to make PVP maps and 2- those are aimed at small number of players that enjoy PVP (doesn't necessarily have to be hardcore PVPers). So they don't bother with it that much.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

And the relic is a catch-up weapon. Never since HW the Relic has been a competitive weapon for brand new content.

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Only because it's always been delayed by one patch or two: in ARR - despite knowing it was a remainder of 1.0 - the relic was always up to par because it was released on the same time or slightly more of the current patch, making it competitively better and sometimes the ONLY choice to do. I mean in 2.0 and later 2.1 you STILL wanted to do the relic for your class: the only better weapon was the coil one, which was 95.

But ever since HW they always released relic one or two patches later which alone is a problem: by the time the relic drops people will have tomestone weapons already, some even upgraded ones, and it's already obsolete EVEN if you can customize your stats, and when new content drops with better tomestone weapon the relic takes its sweet time to upgrade to the current item level. I mean when Pyros weapons came you could already get Suzaku weapons which are the same item level and some of them are BiS! And now we can get 395 with Seiryuu while relic sits at 385

TL;DR if they released relics at the start of the expansion, like 4.0, and practically released Eureka earlier, the relics would be more worthwhile and a valid alternative. AND STILL I don't think it would make Eureka better or more played at all.

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Originally Posted by Voltyblast

Only because it's always been delayed by one patch or two

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That's the thing, they've stated that delaying the Relic weapon was intentional since the first Anima step as to not diminish the value of the Savage weapon.
Yet people still believe that it's supposed to be the competitive casual weapon when it hasn't been for years, and use that assumption to claim that they were wronged because Eureka was not the casual content they fantasized.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

That's the thing, they've stated that delaying the Relic weapon was intentional since the first Anima step as to not diminish the value of the Savage weapon.
Yet people still believe that it's supposed to be the competitive casual weapon when it hasn't been for years, and use that assumption to claim that they were wronged because Eureka was not the casual content they fantasized.

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I don't know why people think that if the relic weapon was equal to or just slightly under the Savage weapon people wouldn't do savage then. You could make the weapon in savage 20 ilvls higher than every other endgame weapon and I STILL would not do savage. People that do Savage are going to do savage cause they like the challenge. The Weapons and Gear are what keeps people going BACK to the fights. AND. Since the loot lock out is so strict in Savage MOST, not all, run savage with a static. They run it once and then they don't run it again till the next week. So you don't have people re queueing for the Savage content to help others or just for the heck of it. Do you think that because the Ultimate fights give weapons, that is the only reason people challenge the content? The weapon is just what keeps people doing the fight once they've beaten it.

Also it's not just the fact that it's meant for casual or hardcore or w/e. The Relic weapon is called that because of it's story. In ARR we were remaking a weapon from Heroes of the past, and then turning that weapon into the weapon wielded by the Zodiac Braves. In HW we were creating a new artificial life and trying to help it grow or come into being, and the only way to do that was to link the life into a weapon cause all other attempts at making said life ended in failure.

In SB our Relic weapons have no story... Went went to Eureka to find out why it disappeared. Not to discover so lost and ancient weapon. When we get there Gerolt says, "oh... maybe we can enhance a weapon with the elemental aspects of Eureka." And that's all we've been doing since the first steps... just adding more and more elements to it till the current weapon can't hold any more and then it gets remade into a new weapon...

For me personally I have always equated the Relic weapon of FFXIV to the Character driven weapons or the Ultimate weapons main characters get in single player FF games. Such as Clouds Ultima Weapon, Tidus' Caladbolg, etc, etc. I equate the Savage weapons to those secret weapons you can find in later games that may be just slightly better or have different abilities on them that may make you choose them over your character weapons.

In sort I want the Relic weapons to be more of a personal quest like in ARR or HW. I want more options to DO the relic. Don't like doing PVP? Do the PVE. Don't like Crafting? Run Dungeons. Bored of all that? Try Eureka for a little while. You balance out those options by making each one take different speeds of progress. For example, they "could" have given us different options of doing the relic weapon in SB such as dungeons, crafting, Eureka, Tomestones, w/e, but made Eureka the fastest route to complete it. People that like Eureka could do that, and the people that don't, could do it for other means.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

That's the thing, they've stated that delaying the Relic weapon was intentional since the first Anima step as to not diminish the value of the Savage weapon.
Yet people still believe that it's supposed to be the competitive casual weapon when it hasn't been for years, and use that assumption to claim that they were wronged because Eureka was not the casual content they fantasized.

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Then why should I bother with it? It's already diminished by other much better weapons that you can easily get - crafting and primals for starters - so by making it "intentionally" delayed it doesn't magically become good, it still makes it worthless. It doesn't take months to grab a weapon from a primal: you need to learn the fight yes but that doesn't take months - weeks at worst - and as soon as you do, you only need to do a fight 10 times and boom, instant weapon that is better than the current relic. 10 runs of 10 minutes making your relic instantly obsolete. By your logic, primals shouldn't give weapons either and tomestone weapons should be removed as well!

But there are solutions for this (first thing I can think is just to make raid weapon/gear stronger by at least 10 ilvl ) but their reasoning for this is beyond ludicrous.

But hey if they want to stick with it by all means, I'll still keep skipping and grab the easiest alternative while you stick with your obsolete relic that it's now relegated at the job of "really expensive glamour". Glamour is the true endgame as we all know.

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Originally Posted by Burningskull

I don't know why people think that if the relic weapon was equal to or just slightly under the Savage weapon people wouldn't do savage then.

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It probably has something to do with the early riot about the Zenith being the same ilvl as the Coil weapon. It shown that people were focused on "having the highest ilvl" instead of simply "overcoming the challenge".

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Originally Posted by Burningskull

Also it's not just the fact that it's meant for casual or hardcore or w/e. The Relic weapon is called that because of it's story.

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Considering the Relic takes its roots in FFXI, the current weapon is actually the closest to the first "relic" concept. I agree it's interesting to have more lore tied to it, but I think it's actually clever to restrict the relic to a single content to open more lore option. Having everything simply be "more items bought with tomestones" is just really bland in my opinion. It's sad that the FFIII incarnation of Eureka was supposed to be this land filled with ancient and powerful weapons, and that we got none of it in XIV.

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Originally Posted by Voltyblast

Then why should I bother with it?

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You're the only one that can answer this question. I personally like doing the relic as a personal goal. I don't really care about how competitive it is.

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Originally Posted by Voltyblast

By your logic, primals shouldn't give weapons either and tomestone weapons should be removed as well!

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What I describe is not my logic, it's SE's reasoning. My reasoning is that capped tome should not provide gear, because it's an extremely lazy way to gain such a powerful gear. Also, raid, primal and additionnal content should provide different types of reward, because if one content gives everything, it just kills the other content.

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Originally Posted by Voltyblast

But hey if they want to stick with it by all means, I'll still keep skipping and grab the easiest alternative while you stick with your obsolete relic that it's now relegated at the job of "really expensive glamour".

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And everyone will be happy, then. And it's more mature that asking to remove/stop creating a content just because you don't like it when everything else in the game already fits your view.

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Originally Posted by loreleidiangelo

Can't speak for this relic, but in previous expansions they eventually became your BiS. So for people who liked to aim for that, or serious raiders, it was pretty much required, even if it required slogging through grinds and content that frankly were way below your skill level.

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The problem with the Eurekerite Relic is it'll be BiS about 4 weeks before 5.0 given it's been a tier behind ever since it was introduced a patch too late.

By which time nobody will give a crap about its stats, only that it has a pretty particle efect.