Risk Factor. Can I have it?

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Originally Posted by elreed

Especially i would like to have hard job quest and if they can make some kind of maat's fight to raise level, that was a bad ass fight i remember as DRK in FFXI i had to make a lot of preps before the fight, it was those kind of quest where it was easy to wipe and the fear factor was awesome, same for places i would like to be walking having the fear of getting aggro, right now i can walk wherever i want except those places with lvl 70-99 mobs, if you want to understand more about that fear factor go to those places trying to get to the aetherite, thats how FFXI was.

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This^ ... yeah the walk to some of those areas though is a bit too much but the rest is DEAD on especially Maat! That sir WAS an accomplishment!

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Originally Posted by Matsume

Another point i meant to bring up. No one cares about dying in FFXIV, where as in FFXI if you died you lose exp and *gasp* sometimes DELEVELED!!!

This was actually a good thing. It provided the "push" part of the "push and pull" towards end game and long term interest. The "pull" was the fact that it was hard to level up, so being lvl 75 anything was an achievement in it's own. Low level players looked up to lvl 75s in their shiny AF armor and attracted them as much as did the hard to get weapons and gear that also provided a "pull" towards end game.

The exp loss per death coupled with the difficulty of gaining exp provided the perfect balance between incentive towards lvling up and disincentive against carelesness that would cause death. And, considering that if you died your party was likely to die and EVERYONE would be penalized, that alone was another incentive pushing people towards paying attention, gearing themselves out, and being extra careful with top notch strategy and awareness.

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Yea this is how i feel. I'm not bothered with dying in this game. I think one of the better things about 11 was the whole exp system. I liked grouping up to exp, plus the threat of death and loosing my hard earned exp. And then with Merits added a whole constant need to group up and exp.

That was 11 though. Great ideas. We need something similar in my honest opinion.

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Originally Posted by Avraym

A lot of people complain that clearing mobs is like fighting straw dolls. No challenge. No element of risk. Hell, you can pull 10+ monsters as a group pull in some of the toughest areas in our level range, and generally walk away unscathed (In relation to group/level size of course)

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So sad and so true... My buddy and I were just talking about this the other day; specifically about leveling/xp parting. It just feels like an lol-zerg-feast atm - no strategy, no risky pulls, no risk or strategy at all really, heh. Such a boring way to level atm...

If Yoshi is creating a theme park to cater to all sorts of players, then the "XP Party Ride" is what I'm going to be looking forward to the most (along with all the new various classes/jobs, of course). It would be really nice to hear more details/visions from Yoshi about 2.0, specifically with regard to character progression (that is, getting from min to max levels). Until then, I'll have my fingers crossed!...

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Originally Posted by ArnoMorley

All I can say to people is be careful what you wish for, that's part of the reason why the game has no risk factor and no sense of reward anymore....

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Nostalgia for the old school MMOs from the early 2000s aside, I do miss the days where there where choice between hardcore MMOs and casual ones, now therye all casual, every MMO try to take WoWs success formula of making their game accessable to everyone.
While this might work in a shooter genre, in MMOs ppl invest time in their characters, this making a switch to a new MMO something of a big deal, you kind of dont want to start over with thw same game again but in a different packaging so to say.
Instead forgetting that there is a niche of players they could cater to, that long for the more hardcore days.


While I don't want pre abyssea XI-2, there is still alot of things good from XI that could be put into XIV,and a more sense of danger and excitment playing is one thing.
I havent played a MMO since XI(or much any game) where the tought of dying was scary and thus while exploring high level areas there was a lot of suspence sneaking around hopeing to stay out of harms way.

I'd be happy if death actualy had some effect for me, be it exp loss or something totaly new, but the current death system is a joke, while death is still annoying in XIV but it doesnt add to the gameplay because its not scary or mean anything, as it is now, you might as well make players immortal and it wouldn't change things much.

And probably the most annoying thing in XIV atm by far is the mobs being leashed and only follow you for like 10 feet before giving up, rarely have I ever seen mobs with so little determination in a game.
Thus there is no real fear of aggroing random monsters since you can just outrun them in 5-10sec, and also its annoying because you can't pull or kite mobs far limiting your gameplay alot.

I remember when fighting a single mob solo, even equal level, was a risky venture in most MMO's.. But I'd sure hate to see some cheap way out by just increasing attack, defense and hp.

More mob AI would be nice. Fights are rather predictable. Any mob w/ a special move.. well, rest assured, the moment you use a TP ability, guess what's coming next...

Or the horribly predictable "attempt to escape" you get from the last mob in a levequest.

Add a mechanic where mobs go for, or call for, reinforcements. Give them more branching options in combat mechanics rather than an extremely predictable chain of events that leads to their ultimate demise.

I remember the first time a mob tried to run away from me in WoW, I was actually shocked (my first MMO was XI, second was WoW)... Now here we are 7 years later, and newer games like XIV, and even SWTOR have seemingly taken a step or two backwards in this area.

Mobs don't have to be beefier to pose a challange, they just need to be a little smarter.

Again I ask, why do we NEED a harsh death penalty to be good players? Can't we just play well so that we don't suck? Can't we not want to die simply so we don't die? Especially in the instanced content, if all players die you lose essentially. Isn't that enough? Why must we lose our hard earned XP? What does that accomplish really?

It adds a horrible timesink, getting back the XP you already earned once. Then you have people afraid to take any chances or use anything other than the easiest party build because they are afraid to die. Then class stacking becomes even more of an issue because no one wants to branch out and try something different. As if we needed another reason for people to stack Archers, lets add lower risk of death and loss of XP to the list.

I'm just curious as to why we must be harshly penalized for death. I just don't see why we must have a reason to not suck at the game.

Going to post another handy dandy Rokien thread http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...us....-kinda..

If I could like this OP more than once I would.

I'm down for more challenging content, but don't want them to change the solo aspect of the game either.

I am hoping the new instances will be challenging, one of the biggest issues I had with Darkhold is that you could train the trash mobs, I hope they don't allow this in the new ones.

I would like to see the instances become a good alternative to XP parties, especially the low to mid range ones.

Anyone know what level the 2 new dungeons will be ? 45+ I am assuming.

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Darkhold didn't require skill it required you RUNNING through it because the spawn rate was so fast you had no choice but to do so. Running through a dungeon is not skill.

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Exactly this shouldn't happen, monsters should only re-spawn if your whole party exits the dungeon.

Many people are bringing up FFXI and I don't want to see that kind of difficulty in this game, its the kind of difficulty that turns players away.

As someone said above the difference between difficult and obnoxious.

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Originally Posted by Arcell

Again I ask, why do we NEED a harsh death penalty to be good players? Can't we just play well so that we don't suck? Can't we not want to die simply so we don't die? Especially in the instanced content, if all players die you lose essentially. Isn't that enough? Why must we lose our hard earned XP? What does that accomplish really?

It adds a horrible timesink, getting back the XP you already earned once. Then you have people afraid to take any chances or use anything other than the easiest party build because they are afraid to die. Then class stacking becomes even more of an issue because no one wants to branch out and try something different. As if we needed another reason for people to stack Archers, lets add lower risk of death and loss of XP to the list.

I'm just curious as to why we must be harshly penalized for death. I just don't see why we must have a reason to not suck at the game.

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It's because THAT's what makes success more rewarding. It's because you face a dreaded penalty that you don't want to die. That's what made death respectable in FFXI, and added extra adrenaline to fights.

And I'm sick of people using the term time sink as if it's a bad thing, it's not. If things weren't spoon fed to everybody then the game would feel rewarding. If Ifrit/Moogle were once a week fights but guaranteed a drop people would not be as sick of them as they are after their 100th fight.