SCH needs some nerfs

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Originally Posted by MoroMurasaki

I get that you don't want them to nerf SCH.

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I said it twice that was okay with a nerf.
I know Scholar is strong and OP.
I don't want asburd nerf, then absurd buff like they did in SB.
That's why I said that, if they want to nerf it without really thinking what they're doing, I prefer him to stay like this and see what's their plan for other healers, then potentially nerf it after.
I don't know how I should write it to get understood.

Like when they buffed Indom... I didn't understood the thing cause Indom was already strong.
Same for the Succor buffed. While it needeed some help, I was not thinking about a 150% shield either.
I was as surprised as many to see those buff that wasn't entirely needeed cause the only "prob" was that his shield had insane mana cost with the old AF trait (20% to get -10s).
With the 45s AF it is okay, but they did all those adjustement in one time.

And what made SCH dps higher was precisely Miasma II weaving because of its pps higher than Broil + hGCD, not Ruin II.

As for the skill ceiling, this isn't entirely "my" opinion but something commonly shared among the comminity.
Sch is easy to play okay, a lot harder to master at his best.

This cry of SCH being too good is a bit ridiculous. SCH received many adjustments throughout 4.x because some of them were too unreasonable. Remembered the succor and adlo costing tooooo much to cast? They had to adjust that and aetherflow so SCH can sustain mp. Before the change, SCH was too annoying to play constantly oom. SCH is in fine place right now. WHM and AST are the ones being too weak. As far as this direction of boss damage continues, it only emphasize how important shield healer is. Because of that, it's obvious that raw healing is showing it's weakness by the increased difficulty of keeping up with the constant big raid wide damage. You can notice the regen from medica II and A.Helios is starting to become not enough for the party to tank the following raid wide if there's no shield healer. Raw healers have to heal extra more.

I hate this direction, but this is not SCH's fault. Just because they gave shit to WHM and bone to AST does't mean SCH should be degraded. New skills in SB do nothing as well. That fairy gauge has almost no real usage in harder content. Not to mention the new skills of all three healers barely even help with healing. (exo maybe)

They either have to buff potency of raw healing or adjust their damage formula, otherwise SCH is here to stay.

Scholar is fine, if anything they need to re-think White Mage, or should I say Whine Mage because that is what the majority seem to be doing. WHM does nothing better than AST/SCH for Alphascape.

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Originally Posted by Heliantheae

So what you're saying is, they should buff Whispering Dawn to catch up with Medica II.

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Yet Whispering Dawn was already nerfed several patches ago. I felt they had that in the cards for awhile now but waited until they got the instant buffs for all the jobs to go-ahead with the nerf.

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Oh man, Fey Union was almost unusable at launch. And Excog was just a stronger Lustrate. Two of our three new skills were just bad.

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It was usable and Excog was great, just the timer had to go.

Honestly square needs to think of a new healing role that isn't regens or shields. They need a fourth healer that can synergize well and bring something else to the table that will pull away from sch desirability. They also need to give whm more raid utility other than big heals. But then again, maybe this is all by design. Perhaps square wants whm to be a progression class at this rate.

I had to work really hard to wrap my mind around how a healer could function outside of the regen/shield healing toolset we are used to. The only thing I could imagine is a healer that revolved around debuffs. They would lessen the outgoing damage from a boss or mob and create the illusion of healing by negating the incoming damage itself. It wouldn't be a "shield" for the party so much as poison for enemies. I think it would be neat to see a healing class like that because their skillset wouldn't have any issues with buffs for the party that can overwrite the cohealer.

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Originally Posted by NobleWinter

I had to work really hard to wrap my mind around how a healer could function outside of the regen/shield healing toolset we are used to.

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This is honestly such an outdated concept that I don't know how anyone is even still clinging to it. Yes you do need shields to mitigate tank busters and so on, but these are hardly the defining characteristics of these classes. Everyone also seems to forget that WHM has consistently had a shield since the beginning of ARR.

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Originally Posted by KDSilver

I said it twice that was okay with a nerf.
I know Scholar is strong and OP.
I don't want asburd nerf, then absurd buff like they did in SB.
That's why I said that, if they want to nerf it without really thinking what they're doing, I prefer him to stay like this and see what's their plan for other healers, then potentially nerf it after.
I don't know how I should write it to get understood.

Like when they buffed Indom... I didn't understood the thing cause Indom was already strong.
Same for the Succor buffed. While it needeed some help, I was not thinking about a 150% shield either.
I was as surprised as many to see those buff that wasn't entirely needeed cause the only "prob" was that his shield had insane mana cost with the old AF trait (20% to get -10s).
With the 45s AF it is okay, but they did all those adjustement in one time.

And what made SCH dps higher was precisely Miasma II weaving because of its pps higher than Broil + hGCD, not Ruin II.

As for the skill ceiling, this isn't entirely "my" opinion but something commonly shared among the comminity.
Sch is easy to play okay, a lot harder to master at his best.

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So to be clear I said SCH needs some nerfs and you argued against that but now you're only saying you don't want an absurd nerf.

Please show me where I have suggested absurd nerfs. I'll wait.

Oh look! I didn't! So your protest is essentially pointless.

I'm not saying I want SCH 6 feet under. Please stop crying like I'm suggesting it should be made unplayable. I'm saying it is currently too strong and is grossly overrepresented in current Savage content.

If any of you SCH white knights want to try to argue against that I will happily laugh you out of the thread. As I stated before 77% of parses in Alphascape have a SCH present.

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Originally Posted by MoroMurasaki

If any of you SCH white knights want to try to argue against that I will happily laugh you out of the thread. As I stated before 77% of parses in Alphascape have a SCH present.

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So? Just as much as Paladin and Bard are usually represented in most savage groups, party utility rules all. Astro and Scholar have that, your Whine Mage has none. You should be asking for buffs, not tearing down the jobs that actually are great.

Second, Scholar already got a nerf last tier.

Whining about log representation is laughable at-best, if anything, all three healers have never been better balanced in terms of healing throughput. Just one has some absurd job meter mechanic.

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Indom is perhaps the single best heal in the game. It costs almost nothing, is more flexible than ES by a mile and is instant.

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People need to stop viewing things like Lustrate or Indomitability as "costing nothing". All Aetherflow skills cost 1500 MP unless it's Energy Drain.

Honestly square needs to think of a new healing role that isn't regens or shields. They need a fourth healer that can synergize well and bring something else to the table that will pull away from sch desirability

I can only imagine there being 3 ways to heal:
1) Heal
2) Heal over time
3) Prevent damage.

They could go the Dancer route from FFXI whereby using the skill Drain Samba allowed for players to restore an amount of HP based on their damage/delay (basically it gave everyone the equivalent of FFXIV's Bloodbath). Dancer also could spend TP to cast instant Cure Waltz (ST) and Divine Waltz (AoE). TP in FFXIV was gained from auto-attacks, similar to Ninki though. In FFXIV, Dancer could spend TP to cast heals instead of using MP, with each healing dance costing 50-100 TP or something.

But style/mechanics aside, you can only really heal via direct cure, regen, or prevent the damage. A life-drain healer would be awkward given how mechanics work, they'd still need a way to instantly heal large amounts of raid damage and single target (for tank busters). Moreover, they have to homogenize any new healer to deal with mechanics like how they gave SCH many of the tools WHM had, and vice versa, in order to allow for WHMx2 and SCHx2 parties to
Like SCH lacked good raid-wide healing, so they got ET and Indom. WHM lacked MP healing, so they got Asylum and Thin Air.
Any new healer that comes out will have to fall in line and have the same core kit of:
weak heal, stronk heal, oGCD emergency heal, aoe heal, stronk aoe heal, some kind of ground placed or channeled barrier, and regen. Any gap in their kit would mean having to excel in another area to make them unique.