[dev1033] Ideas for a Two-Tier Class System: Jobs on Top of Weapon Specializations

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Originally Posted by Eremor

A simple way to implement this kind of system would be to simply change the physical level into a job level.

Your current job/title would be determined by what skills you currently have equipped. For example, if you had certain sword, shield, and healing magic skills equipped then your job would be Paladin. Any EXP you gained would increase your job level and your job level would give you a bonus based on that jobs specialization, ex. Paladin would increase your defense and healing magic. As well as possibly unlocking job specific skills, though there would be fewer of these then Discipline based skills.

This would effectively allow you to be a Paladin with any weapon as long as you kept those required skills equipped (Though in the case of Paladin it would make those shield skills wasted slots). Ideally the skills required to qualify for any job would not use up all 30 action slots, allowing you to be a specific job with a specific role but still allowing for customization with the remaining slots.

Finally, for new players and for anyone who does not want to be a specific job. There would be a default job for when you don't have the skills to qualify for any other job. This could be Squire or maybe Onion Knight, and it could give a simple stat bonus or maybe a general bonus to all of your skills. That way people who choose not to be a specialist won't feel gimped or that they are wasting EXP.

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Thanks for the suggestion, but I have a few concerns/questions for you.

If you change physical level into job level does that mean that your stats (STR/VIT/DEX/...) are going to be determined by your Job level? What happens if I change jobs? These physical stats become increased/decreased according to my other job levels?

-my problem with this is that there isn't going to be enough Job-specific abilities to learn to take me from 1-50 in a Job AND in a Weapon Class (unless you want to throw a ton of abilities/spells onto jobs and leave weapons closer to what they were in FFXI just learning some TP attacks). You need physical development to take quite a long time so as to have a nice stat progression. If you are going to remove physical levels I personally think it would be better to then have your physical stats be determined by your Weapon Class rank since it already goes from 1-50. But, then you get a problem like having a maxed out DRK change weapons from r50 LNC to r30 MRD and have all his stats reduced because of this just because he changed his weapon class. I think this puts too much limitations on people.

Also, you're saying that the skills/weapons you equip will determine your job. So for example, if I equip a sword, shield, and some abilities like rampart, heal, protect, etc. The game determines (FOR ME?) that I am a paladin?

-This is way more restrictive than what I am suggesting. In my proposal I choose to be a paladin (this gives me some specific traits/abilities) and then I pick from the weapon skills that I've learned what (non-class-specific) abilities I want to use with my paladin. With the extended favoring system I'm talking about, certain "paladin builds" are going to be way more effective than others, but this system doesn't constrain you as much as what I think you are suggesting, it allows you to go against the grain or more specifically adapt to a very specific situation.

Eremor I think the Job should be something you set yourself, even if its just an extra box by itself in the skill assignment screen that lets you click it then pick from the jobs you already have.

Then once the job is equipped any skills you chose to equip that the job is proficient in you get a stat bonus and potency bonus for. And any skills you are not proficient in or are not native to your already chosen weapon class you have to pay extra for to equip and they are not as powerful (75%ish)

And as other and myself have said it doesn't need to have more then 5 levels to start (1 Job level for every 10 possible Weapon Class Levels)

I am very much for the idea that one would choose a role/title to superimpose on thier current class. In this we dont really need role specific weapons. Plenty of room for more classes to be released.

The role is worn like a state of mind... or maybe eventually armor. Something akin to ffxi's artifact sets. With that i would expect limitations governed by class, preventing a Conjurer from running around in Thiefs armor. That is not to say you couldnt be a Thief with a wand. Armor like this would only serve to further boost specialization with whatever role-enhancing qualities it might have.(+3% cure potency WHM hats) Can even throw class specific armor into the mix with its own weapon/spell enhancements. Maybe? (Enhances Steadfast effect shoes)

People seem to be concerned with getting locked into optimized builds but i feel like this will mostly always be in relationship to party size. In a four person party, depending on the task at hand, there is a good chance one wants to play as more of a hybrid. Larger partys afford themselves room for more specialized roles.

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Originally Posted by pilot

I am very much for the idea that one would choose a role/title to superimpose on thier current class. In this we dont really need role specific weapons. Plenty of room for more classes to be released.

The role is worn like a state of mind... or maybe eventually armor. Something akin to ffxi's artifact sets. With that i would expect limitations governed by class, preventing a Conjurer from running around in Thiefs armor. That is not to say you couldnt be a Thief with a wand. Armor like this would only serve to further boost specialization with whatever role-enhancing qualities it might have.(+3% cure potency WHM hats) Can even throw class specific armor into the mix with its own weapon/spell enhancements. Maybe? (Enhances Steadfast effect shoes)

People seem to be concerned with getting locked into optimized builds but i feel like this will mostly always be in relationship to party size. In a four person party, depending on the task at hand, there is a good chance one wants to play as more of a hybrid. Larger partys afford themselves room for more specialized roles.

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Yeah I think there will always be more popular builds, but the fact is that the possible combination are so much more diverse if you choose your weapon/skill proficiency and job/role independently.

The customization is exponential. Now imagine that they add 3 basic classes in an expansion (say, Musketeer, Fencer, Arcanist). This opens the door to a whole new set of builds to use with your paladin or Ranger, for example, plus it adds many possibilities for superimposed jobs.

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Originally Posted by northernsky

Yeah I think there will always be more popular builds, but the fact is that the possible combination are so much more diverse if you choose your weapon/skill proficiency and job/role independently.

The customization is exponential. Now imagine that they add 3 basic classes in an expansion (say, Musketeer, Fencer, Arcanist). This opens the door to a whole new set of builds to use with your paladin or Ranger, for example, plus it adds many possibilities for superimposed jobs.

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And if they keep the Job Title Level/Rank low (1 Job level per every 10 weapon skill levels or so) then they could introduce classic jobs faster as well.

This has got to be a nearly perfect solution for implementing traditional names into FFXIV. I hope Yoshi-P and the devs pay very close attention to this thread. It has my full support.

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Originally Posted by BlaiseLallaise

This has got to be a nearly perfect solution for implementing traditional names into FFXIV. I hope Yoshi-P and the devs pay very close attention to this thread. It has my full support.

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I believe Gahoo at Eorzeapedia is writing a full blown op-ed about the future possibilities of jobs/titles/classes/whatweaponsare etc. Hopefully SE will see it.

This topic has really implemented a lot towards those jobs, but the current weapon specializations don't exactly open up to any logical choices of other classes, like BST, I mean, I can see the implementation of a single handed axe due to the fact that they were more adept with 1H axes in XI than any other jobs. Would that be implemented under SWORD? How would it go as far as abilities that they need pretty much right off the bat due to their need for pet control? I can see going through each and every weapon specialization and what titles it can branch off to would turn out great, probably give a little more incentive and encouragement to people and to SE. In any case, this topic has to be one of the best on these forums, it has been a civil discussion and has brought about some very good implementation ideas to play.

Wow I really like this idea. Maybe even more than:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...sic-FF-Classes

So I could do something like Red Mage/Gladiator to be like a RDM in FFXI and the same for BLU. I really like this idea and it seems really easy to implement.

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Originally Posted by Gath

This topic has really implemented a lot towards those jobs, but the current weapon specializations don't exactly open up to any logical choices of other classes, like BST, I mean, I can see the implementation of a single handed axe due to the fact that they were more adept with 1H axes in XI than any other jobs. Would that be implemented under SWORD? How would it go as far as abilities that they need pretty much right off the bat due to their need for pet control? I can see going through each and every weapon specialization and what titles it can branch off to would turn out great, probably give a little more incentive and encouragement to people and to SE. In any case, this topic has to be one of the best on these forums, it has been a civil discussion and has brought about some very good implementation ideas to play.

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Thanks for adding to the discussion and I think these are some awesome questions.

Personally, this is how I can see this possibly being implemented.

1)1H-Axes shouldn't be essentially different from 2H-Axes, in my mind they should all fall under some general weapon type which would be AXE. Since AXE=MRD, equipping a 1H Axe would make you a MRD. If they really wanted to differentiate more between the two they could make some abilities require 1H, others require 2H, and others that could be used by both. (Although abilities that would require 1H or 2H I think should be a very small subset of the general AXE skills that you learn).

2)Abilities that MAKE you a Beastmaster like charm, gauge, reward, etc. should be learned through your title.

So using the more visual rank system we were talking about it could look something like this:

Beastmaster - Recruit learns Charm & Wide Scan
Beastmaster - Initiate learns Gauge & Vermin Killer
Beastmaster - Novice learns Reward & Resist Slow

Obviously I just pulled these abilities/traits from FFXI, but it gives you a sense of how it can be learned, they might rename/rework abilities to fit this game better.

Another thing I think is this points to another reason why we need this type of system because as the system stand now in FFXIV (armory system by itself) how are you even going to implement PET classes? Make a "Pet-Master" weapon? Seems too specific to me to have a weapon like that and then also need to do the same thing for a summoner. Having these kind of abilities being learned through the Title/Job system makes it connect a lot smoother.