New info on housing plots, PVP, squadron changes

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Originally Posted by Hakuro89

No.

/10chars

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Yes!
/10chars

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Originally Posted by Kaethra

Everquest, released in 1999 does this just fine. They improved the system with Everquest 2, by simply instancing the houses. '.

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IIRC, EQ2 had housing long before they added it to EQ1. Issues with EQ1 system were due to engine and spaghetti code.

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Originally Posted by Kaethra

ORly?

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I'm sorry but... Did you just say you need basically one single line fo code for a whole housing system?

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Originally Posted by Kaethra

Is the code used for an item in an instance of EQ2 housing.

First number is item ID
Second is Database ID (unique, for indexing purposes on the server)
Next three numbers are the location in X,Z,Y coordinates
Next three after that are the orientation in Rotation, Pitch, and Roll
After those is the size (2.0 is twice as big, .5 is half)
true/false tag determines if the item is in the house's inventory or not
name of item is self explanatory

That's not too complex for ya is it? Why would it be for a SE Dev?

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That is merely the data describing a single item in a house. It is not the actual code using that data, nor the database structure needed for handling a large number of such item data over a large number of houses.
Basically, what you showed was just the tip of the iceberg. The other 99.9% of the iceberg is where the actual work happens, and is mostly hidden from us users.

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Originally Posted by Kaethra

ORly?



Is the code used for an item in an instance of EQ2 housing.

.....

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OK, cool. How does the housing system in FFXIV work? If you know I'd love to hear it, because some transparency on how it gets implemented and why there might be some limitations on their side or a LACK of limitations would be a great argument to petition for simple improvements. If not.. how do you know it's anywhere near what EQ uses and how easy it is to put through?

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Originally Posted by Paladinleeds

Other MMOs can do it just fine.

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Really?

Which MMO generates entire housing zones that then act as permanent, always on zones, on the fly, that also happen to provide features that essentially have to always be "on" like Chocobo Stables and the Market Board?

All the ones I've seen dynamically scale the number of individual instanced housing plots (Wildstar, ESO) or have a set number of zones (LOTRO, which does have a LOT of housing wards but also has severely limited customization with housing items as a result).

Dynamically scaling the availability of housing areas can be easier or much harder based on how those areas work - something to consider before throwing around the "This other MMO does it, XIV should be able to easily as well." The details of how they do "it" are important, after all.

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Originally Posted by MistakeNot

That is merely the data describing a single item in a house. It is not the actual code using that data, nor the database structure needed for handling a large number of such item data over a large number of houses.
Basically, what you showed was just the tip of the iceberg. The other 99.9% of the iceberg is where the actual work happens, and is mostly hidden from us users.

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Which has largely been done already. The funny thing is, the current wards are instanced by server on the same Datacenter. Instead of instancing by server, instance by player and allow visitation by others.

Oh the other benefit is you can have players own multiple homes this way. I don't understand why you all are so against that. For some reason you don't want someone else to have a home that could be different than yours.

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Originally Posted by Berethos

Really?

Which MMO generates entire housing zones that then act as permanent, always on zones, on the fly, that also happen to provide features that essentially have to always be "on" like Chocobo Stables and the Market Board?

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Everquest

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Originally Posted by Berethos

snip

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Ok, so let's tackle this. Since you've mentioned other MMOs, and what they do, how could we translate this to FFXIV?
Dynamic scaling: So, make it so it's only loaded when a user is accessing the area. If needed, potentially put a cap on the number of instances that can be loaded at once.
Chocobo stables: Tie this into a "Holding area" (similar to the area outside apartments for apartment residents).
Marketboard: See "Chocobo stables".

This is why I suggested in another thread to tie it into a new area, so that the backbone (someone has mentioned inn rooms to act as a starting point for the code re-use, since these already dynamically generate, they just need expanding for housing adjustments) can be made for this without breaking the other areas. Ishgard maybe? Can even tie in MSQ requirements to be able to purchase (though we'll need some handwavey magic for FC housing and members accessing without completing the relevant MSQ, maybe look at how Shirogane does it?) so as to keep within the post-DSW.

There we go, some ideas on how FFXIV can do, like these other MMOs.

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Originally Posted by Kaethra

Instead of instancing by server, instance by player and allow visitation by others.

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Isn't that how RuneScape does it?

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Originally Posted by Paladinleeds

Other MMOs can do it just fine. Why not create a new housing area based off new code that would allow it?

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Because Yoshida can't seem to see past the current implementation. There is no reason they couldn't come up with a new fully instanced implementation that could run in parallel with the existing wards other than this mental block SE seems to have that they can only work with what they have.

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Originally Posted by Paladinleeds

So, the new housing area could work based off the idea that the "interior server" has 2 areas (a bit like how the FC housing does it with the company workshop/private chambers). You have an outside that you'd go to, with a door that leads inside (to the next part). The coding is already there for the most part from what I can see, just requires some tweaking on the "exterior server" to allow it to work in an instanced manner.

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All they really need to do is include an exterior with the instanced interior and forget about wards for a new implementation. The existing wards could stick around for those folks that want it but it would be with the knowledge they would have ll of the associated problems as well.

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Originally Posted by Kaethra

Which has largely been done already. The funny thing is, the current wards are instanced by server on the same Datacenter. Instead of instancing by server, instance by player and allow visitation by others.

Oh the other benefit is you can have players own multiple homes this way. I don't understand why you all are so against that. For some reason you don't want someone else to have a home that could be different than yours.

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I like having wards with multiple houses in them. Per-player instances would lose that, which is why I dislike that solution. Multiple houses per player is only a bad thing when housing is a limited resource.

There is no inherent reason they cannot keep the wards however. Look at LOTRO - pretty much the same setup with houses as we have here, except a much larger number of wards, with new wards getting activated automatically once a certain type of houses are sold out. (Not quite infinite number of wards, or neighbourhoods as they are called in LOTRO, but lots more than we have here.)

Problem is that changing the current setup - and it doesn't really matter in what direction - will involve a lot of work, and quite possibly involve changing things deep down in the messy parts of the code that no sane programmer wants to even touch for fear of breaking things.