You'd have to excuse people for thinking you want it to be the same because that's exactly what you've been saying. For the third time, none of the jobs in ffxiv takes their kits from from ffxi. NONE. So it doesn't matter in the slightest what a job has in ffxi, because it absolutely won't have it in ffxiv. Where was ffxi's red mage's verstone? Veraero? Fleche? Corps a corps? Where was ffxi's samurai's midare setsugekka? Where is ffxi's black mage's Astral fire and Umbral ice? Where is ffxi's white mage's lillies? Tetragrammaton? Asylum? Medica?Quote:
Originally Posted by MercureXI
It absolutely is not easier to convert dancer into a tank for the pure itemization reason alone. It cannot wear existing tank gear
Except that's pretty much your entire argument that it'd be easier to take the abilities (of which you specifically mentioned multiple) and transplant them into ffxiv. Which they haven't done, nor will do.Quote:
Never said "make it the same" (duh !),
Yes, because putting in a tank job that doesn't wear tank gear is the epitome of "easy". You're delusional.Quote:
but more like "it's way easier to transition the job" ...
I think it's you who needs the "newsflash" because that is exactly what they do .Quote:
Because, newsflash, they don't create "existing jobs from past FFs" in XIV from the ground up ...
Samurai is almost nothing like any past iteration of the job in Final fantasy games. Red mage is drastically different from its previous iterations. Machinist, dark knight, astrologian, summoner, ninja, black mage, bard, monk, dragoon, warrior, paladin, scholar, white mage. All of the jobs were absolutely built from the ground up. At most they have a small handful of abilities or spells that are persistent through final fantasy games, but even those are often drastically changed in function such as souleater. Etc. Samurai is one of the bigger ones, as almost none of its kit has been present in past iterations.
There are multiple reasons this cannot work mechanically. If a beastmaster tanks the pet cannot perform the role of the tank, period. And even if the pet doesn't actually tank there's still a handful of problems that arise by having the pet be alongside them. Having the beastmaster mounted on the pet and them acting as a single target is the easiest implementation of having it fulfill the tank role.Quote:
Though I agree they could use the old "hate transfer" onto pet ability and the master buffing / healing its pet as a way for it to tank and look good doing so.
5.0 Beastmaster: keep it fierce please
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08-09-2017, 09:28 PMShippuu
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08-09-2017, 09:41 PMMagiusNecrosOr just rip off a class from WoW instead. Just like Arcanist was a copypaste of affliction warlock.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shippuu
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08-10-2017, 01:16 AMMercureXIHoly hell ...Quote:
Originally Posted by Shippuu
1) Where did I say that I wanted it to be EXACTLY the same ? (please quote me, I dare you)
2) Jobs sure are a lot different in XIV, and I never said that they remained unchanged. But they still never were built from the ground up : Red Mage still is built upon the principle that you should both be melee / caster (which failed in XI though), Monk is pure melee and retained some of his abilities (more melee speed as you level up, etc), Dragoon retained part of his trademark skills (jumps etc), etc etc ...
Sure, none plays the same (duh), but they, more or less, have the same intended role.
But that never was my point anyway, if you read my post (?) : I only said that it would be very easy to bring DNC as a tank (skillset and gameplay wise) in XIV.
Itemization, I already agreed it would be a problem (but hey, bring it up again, so that I can agree more ?). -
08-10-2017, 01:57 AMGumbercules
BST could be a tank class in a "side seat driver" way prolly? for example imagine like smn with titan but "strictly" around tanking, have a massive bear as you pet that reacts to your actions for its enmity etc. So as you "melee" with the others nearby your actions are controlling your bears attacks and enmity and you namely just micro manage the positioning (could even simplify it more by having all enmity you generate automatically be the pets) .....
that said, not having it be DPS imo is a lost opportunity, hell i still stand by my idea it should be a new DoL class :P (fight breed skin etc beasts, kinda like a mini game based around mob drops) -
08-10-2017, 06:47 AMShippuuI never claimed to say you wanted it to be exactly the same, but you absolutely did and continue to talk about transplanting specific abilities and mechanics from XI into XIV.Quote:
Originally Posted by MercureXI
Except that yes, they are still built from the ground up. Having a base theme or motif to go off of is not designing detailed abilities and mechanics. Nor is having a few iconic visual abilities such as jump, as even those abilities are not immune to be changed entirely, I've already given a prime example with souleater, one of dark knight's most iconic ability is entirely different to how it's ever been before, aND that's not even going into the issue of how much dark knight was changed to make it into the tank it is now.Quote:
2) Jobs sure are a lot different in XIV, and I never said that they remained unchanged. But they still never were built from the ground up :
Except for when they dont. See: Dark Knight. Or how about Ninja, which was a tank in ffxi with consumable items, absolutely nothing like it is in ffxiv. That's not even touching how there isn't defined trinity roles in classic rpg final fantasy games, meaning exceptions will always be made in order to fit the jobs into strict roles.Quote:
Sure, none plays the same (duh), but they, more or less, have the same intended role.
No, you initially said it would simply be the easiest to make into a tank (which is factually untrue) then you moved the goalposts to skills and gameplay, of which you are also wrong because we established that gameplay is not strictly tied to any job. Whatever skills you think would make dancer a good tank can be instantly repackaged onto any job. Bard already has aura buffs and debuffs, it wouldn't be anything that is unique to dancer, and isn't something that any other job couldn't also have.Quote:
But that never was my point anyway, if you read my post (?) : I only said that it would be very easy to bring DNC as a tank (skillset and gameplay wise) in XIV.
Because of this, any potential job is just as easy to add from a gameplay and abilities wise.
And yet you still use a broad term of dancer being the easiest job to implement as a tank despite this very major thing that completely eliminates it from being any semblance of easy.Quote:
Itemization, I already agreed it would be a problem (but hey, bring it up again, so that I can agree more ?).
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08-10-2017, 12:42 PMMercureXII guess you'll just go on "repeat mode" forever huh ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Shippuu
Why bother replying then ?
You are right about DRK in XI though, but wrong about Ninja, which was designed at first as a DPS, but the community derailed the job into a tank by using Utsusemi + evasion based gear.
And the simple fact that you need to use, YET AGAIN, your "itemization" argument when I've agreed about it for like 124 times now ... you just want to have the last word, have it and feel proud ... I guess you come here only for that huh ?
Still, DNC skillset and abilities could easily transition into XIV (most of it) and could make a very good base for a new tank ... but you'll never agree to it because you prefer to post artworks in a gameplay conversation (now we can see why you feel goalposts changed when they never did lol) ... oh well ... have fun ...
Peace out ... It's hopeless trying to discuss anything with you ... -
08-10-2017, 12:44 PMMercureXIDOL could be interesting indeed ... though DPS sure would be the best option IMOQuote:
Originally Posted by Gumbercules
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08-10-2017, 01:38 PMShippuuSometimes it takes multiple times to get through to some people who are particularly dense. But can't help it if the logic and common sense is beyond some individuals.Quote:
Originally Posted by MercureXI
Yet still even Ninja's original intention in FFXI was drastically different than FFXIV's. And going by intended design, Samurai in XI was meant to be a tank, and is now a DPS in FFXIV.Quote:
but wrong about Ninja, which was designed at first as a DPS, but the community derailed the job into a tank by using Utsusemi + evasion based gear.
Cool projection. Ironically I could say the same thing about you and your "I meant GAMEPLAY and ABILITIES" even when proven such a notion is entirely wrong you still try to peddle it. Oh wait, what's that...?Quote:
And the simple fact that you need to use, YET AGAIN, your "itemization" argument when I've agreed about it for like 124 times now ... you just want to have the last word, have it and feel proud ... I guess you come here only for that huh ?
There it is, folks! So, pot...kettle? etc.Quote:
Still, DNC skillset and abilities could easily transition into XIV (most of it) and could make a very good base for a new tank
And you prefer to derail a thread specifically about Beastmaster with your own selfish desire for dancer first, hmmm. Let's take a look at your first wonderfully insightful post in this thread.Quote:
... but you'll never agree to it because you prefer to post artworks in a gameplay conversation (now we can see why you feel goalposts changed when they never did lol) ... oh well ... have fun ...
Oh man, what a riveting analysis of gameplay mechanics and abilities. And FYI, the topic title and original post had little to do with discussing gameplay mechanics, only a desire for Beastmaster to be kept fierce. Of which the pictures and concept I posted quite definitely fall under the purview of that discussion in every way.Quote:
Originally Posted by MercureXI
https://media.giphy.com/media/11QJgcchgwskq4/giphy.gifQuote:
Peace out ... It's hopeless trying to discuss anything with you ...
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08-14-2017, 06:38 AMOkamimaru
BST would work better as dps and not even as a pet class... more like Gau from ff6... to me a fftactics type geomancer would make a good tank using magic to manipulate the terrain to create rock wall defensive cds, magma burst aoes, tangled root stuns and other similar attacks....
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08-14-2017, 06:51 AMMarxam
I actually would prefer Puppetmaster as a tank. I imagine it's play style would focus on using your puppet to help mitigate damage, either by using cds on its own or stacking with you to mitigate damage. Then maybe once every 2 mins you combine with your puppet voltron style and deal some burst dmg. It's lore would be tied heavily to the allagans and garlemald. They can reuse some of the allagan bosses like ads or even the avatar. It's strictly for glamour though.