Is house selling okay?

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Originally Posted by Enjuden

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That does not answer my original question. Which rule is house-selling supposed to break?

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Originally Posted by JunseiKei

It's such an ambiguous statement. To me, asking for the same cost of the house is an enormous amount of gil. I don't know a world where even 100,000 is ever considered a small amount, let alone anything higher. If people are so eager to make back the gil they spent on the house, just don't enter it for 45 days. You get 80% of what you paid and you avoid ripping someone off (3m price tag VS 6m+ price tag for the same plot).

What you guys are doing, though, is stating amounts that were not even said by the staff. Enormous amount of gil can be any amount they determine, not players.

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You cannot apply real world dollar equivalents to a game. 100,000 gil is chump change in this game. I can make that in under five minutes just selling baby gear on the MB. Enormous amounts usually pertain to 40-50M, which is the general average small houses used to sell for. They've come down considerably, but will inevitably shoot back up once Shirogane sells out. At least on higher pop servers. It's those prices I imagine the devs dislike, not someone trying to break even or make a small profit on their investment.

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Originally Posted by Hamada

It is not vague, it is just a bit more indirect, you have to remember this is coming from a Japanese translation. You do not see the difference of someone buying a plot of land on day 1 throwing up a pf saying "small house for sale 100 M pst" and "leaving server/quitting the game 2 mil PST"

I do not know why you are having an aggressive tone with this, there is no reason to.

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I do not understand tone in text. Perhaps my mannerisms just seems too straightforward? I don't like beating around the bush and I'm terrible at sugarcoating (my friends can attest to this).

Let me put it this way:
RMT is already against the rules. There's no point in telling RMTs that what they are doing is against the ToS.

If it's from a translation, it would lead me to believe Yoshida may be saying, "It's against the rules because people can do this," not, "We're specifically saying doing it this way is against the rules." That's not touching on if someone is leaving the game, they have no need for 2m gil.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

You cannot apply real world dollar equivalents to a game. 100,000 gil is chump change in this game. I can make that in under five minutes just selling baby gear on the MB.

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That is from your personal experience and not a macro perspective. Are you accounting for weekend warriors and fairweather players? 100k would more than likely seem like a lot to them, I'm sure. Nor do I think they'd want to spend said time glued to a market board or simply grinding out gil. Personal experiences are all well and good, but it's still a limited scope.

Either or, this has spiraled down into arguing over what is "enormous amounts of gil." So, to return to the topic, the game doesn't stop you from selling plots for housing for any amount of gil for whatever reason you deem fit. Just be aware that you can be reported and there may or may not be actions taken against you for doing it.

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Originally Posted by Rinuko

The whole "selling with a huge profit" is so vague too and subjective.

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That's basically the point, gives them leeway to enforce it at their discretion. So if they said "double the price is too much" but someone sold it for double -50 gil, it's not breaking the rules. This gives them an out as to what they can deem "too high."

I still stand by the fact that it's too much of a risk to an account if the rules are so wobbly. I mean, it isn't just about price gouging here as you are essentially entering a contract with another player outside of the systems in place by SE. So, how would it be handled if the other player refused to give up the land after the agreement? After the gil transfer?

Also, 40 to 50 mil for a SMALL?? This is why apartments and flowerpots were added, holy jeez...

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Originally Posted by syunikiss

I wonder what is the proper way to sell a house/plot that doesn't goes against the ToS?

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The proper way would be using an in game mechanic, designed and coded by the devs, to securely transfer the plot to another player.


As such a system doesn't exist, I'd go on the assumption that it's not allowed at all.

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

But it implies that there is an amount that is acceptable.

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Personal opinion, but I don't think it does. I think players just want to interpret it that way. To me, it just sounds like using hyperbole to make the point that players making a profit from selling housing plots is unacceptable, using a descriptive adjective to call greater attention to the point being made.

This all reads to me like taking some off the cuff statement as legally binding, just to feel like you've caught some special loophole.

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Originally Posted by Hasrat

Personal opinion, but I don't think it does. I think players just want to interpret it that way. To me, it just sounds like using hyperbole to make the point that players making a profit from selling housing plots is unacceptable, using a descriptive adjective to call greater attention to the point being made.

This all reads to me like taking some off the cuff statement as legally binding, just to feel like you've caught some special loophole.

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Then why didn't he give the much simpler answer of "don't do it"?

And why do players continue to sell houses and not get punished for doing it?

I don't even have any personal desire to want it to be possible to sell them. That's just how it reads.

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

Then why didn't he give the much simpler answer of "don't do it"?

And why do players continue to sell houses and not get punished for doing it?

I don't even have any personal desire to want it to be possible to sell them. That's just how it reads.

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I don't watch any of the vids or whatever, but maybe the guy just talks normally, rather than assuming all of his statements will be taken as official decrees to be followed to the letter?

As for lack of punishment, it doesn't fall under abuse or harassment, so probably it's a bit lower priority, in addition to mods also choosing to interpret it in their own way. I've had no mod interaction to date, so I don't know their policies, but it's entirely possible that not everything is enforced equally by all mods.

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Originally Posted by MistakeNot

That does not answer my original question. Which rule is house-selling supposed to break?

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"Griefing tactics", which is enforced under the Harassment rule.