[DEV Request] Patch 3.3 Can we please keep more dungeons in Expert Roulette?

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Originally Posted by Antanias

Why not keep the level 60 roulette as is and have the 3.3 dungeons join the 3.2 dungeons for expert roulette? Then have the 3.2 dungeons move to 60 while 3.4 dungeons takes its place so that there are 4 dungeons in the ex roulette as of 3.3

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Because as someone said, each new set of dungeons per patch are made with a specific ilvl in mind. If you throw in older dungeons into the Expert Roulette, people will want to farm the older dungeons because the mobs there are weaker and the reward would be the same. People will do anything to make things easy for themselves. If you want the dungeons from the old set to be in the next cycle for the roulette, then the new dungeons can't have the ilvl gate be higher so that things can be "fair".

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

Because as someone said, each new set of dungeons per patch are made with a specific ilvl in mind. If you throw in older dungeons into the Expert Roulette, people will want to farm the older dungeons because the mobs there are weaker and the reward would be the same.

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You know this is the reason why Fractal/Neverreap are capped at 210 ilvl? All they would have to do is cap the ilvl at whatever was highest when the dungeon was released, power problem solved.

The main hurdle is that each dungeon series has a different ilvl requirement to enter, so maybe you'd have to fulfill the min-ilvl of the highest rank dungeons regardless of a more diverse expert pool.

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

If you throw in older dungeons into the Expert Roulette, people will want to farm the older dungeons because the mobs there are weaker and the reward would be the same.

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That's not entirely true - the older dungeons are constantly re-adjusted to give less tomes by themselves than the newer ones. So while the bonus would be the same, in the end, tome/time would be quite similar. Sure, chance of failure might be lower in the older dungeons, buuut...I can't remember the last time I had a failed dungeon group aside from people leaving ._.'

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

this one wasn't hard, actually the trouble was most player was already outgearing the dungeon, but since they had tuned some fight for work only with a certain ilevel it was hard. the first boss was a wall where actually you was forced to leave the whole dps on the boss to the tank only!
that was the only difficulty of this place.

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Not saying it was hard, but merely that it was the last time I remember wiping in a dungeon since taking lowish DPS and a no-cleric healer through pre-nerf AK Demon Wall at i50. So it was the best example to come to mind.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

I'm talking about specific dungeon "level". Neverreap is not on the same level as Antitower, for example. If we were to unify the roulettes, you'd be getting the same reward for Neverreap as you would for Antitower. So you'd have i230 players plowing Neverreap into the ground if they get that via roulette while they'd do Antitower at the expected pace The reward could still be 35 Lore + some esoteric tomes, but because of the way both dungeons are tuned it'd make the reward feel disproportionate.
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That's why you keep it to the minimum ilvl specific to teh dungeon. Neverreap at minimum ilvl wouldn't be necessarily easier or harder than antitower at minimum ilvl

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Originally Posted by Thayos

The way I always dealt with this was to tell the DPS in my parties to never DPS boss while adds were out; in addition, as tank, I'd turn my back to the boss until adds were dead. Worked like a charm.

But yeah, the Siren boss at the end had some more interesting mechanics than the vast majority of dungeons nowadays. The last two bosses in the new Ampador dungeon are just... laughable. The final boss' big move is to... cure himself a little bit. ???? What's the point even?

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Dungeons are made to be "easy" because they are used to teach players mechanics that will later be used in more complex ways.

You might laugh at Ampador's boss's "Healing" ability that occurs if you don't have all 4 step in the circle to reduce the healing however think about it for a moment. If you've done Sephiroth EX you would be aware that he has a similar mechanic but ina more punishing fashion. Users need to be aware of what color they are and then they need to step on the right position to reduce damage taken, they need to be aware of what phase is going on and step on that when it's needed.

So ya, so funny that the boss just "heals" itself, that's the point, it's not to punish you by saying "now you die" it's to say, "oh look when we step on this it means we reduce the damage dealth". Then you see Sephiroth EX does something similar and maybe you die the first time, then you do it again and realize oh we need to be on the right color to make this work. They are stepping stones to teach you.

Heck, even the first boss in Ampdapor teaches you a mechanic used by an Alexander boss, when it takes the form of 4 places and fires in a linear direction, it's similar to the copycats but those fire in a fan direction.

Heck you could even say the 2nd boss gives you the idea that oh Sepchiroth EX combines this boss mechanic of "libra" and the Cure IV mechanic of the final boss to be used together in order to reduce the damage taken.

Also be mindful of the final boss in anti-tower, the latest new addition that I don't think we've seen on any other bosses yet, the eye appearing on top of you to warn the user that they will be the target of a fan attack, which honestly was also used in World of Darkness during the phase before you fight the Cereberus by the Atomos.

So ya, it's just something to be mindful of, sure dungeons get easier, they are suppose to, if you aren't learning the tricks behind them then you're doing it wrong. You can't expect the dungeons to magically get tougher because each one is designed as a simple puzzle with mechanics that will later be used on more complex puzzles in different variables.

The devs better add more punishing mechanics to dungeons in "Expert" Roulette if they actually want us to a learn something from them.

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Originally Posted by Welsper59

It's just more appealing to us to think of it having a lot of potential outcomes, like a traditional roulette (i.e. Russian Roulette) lol.

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No sane casino owner would run a roulette with only two numbers, and no one in their right mind thinks of the expert roulette as having "a lot of potential outcomes". It's either Antitower or its Amdapor.

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

No sane casino owner would run a roulette with only two numbers

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Maybe they should change the name to "Expert Coin Toss."

On topic: I agree with the OP. While I don't ever expect we'll get the WoW numbers of high level dungeons (I don't know how much it is now but the "roulette" had like 10-13 different possible dungeons you could get when I played) more than 2 would be nice.

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Originally Posted by Claymore65

Or they could just replace "Expert Roulette" with "Level 60 Roulette" entirely. Problem solved. Instead of burning yourself out on two specific dungeons, you'd have 6 or so in your roulette. It would be a really simple change that would reduce burnout significantly.

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That would mean less tomes

We can also just ignore expert roulette and only do lv 60 roulette and leave the expert roulette for those who want the higher reward.