Stats And You!

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Originally Posted by Stufoo

Oh okay, so the dev team doesn't like people to build classes that focus on just one or two attributes, but they give DEX six beneficial effects and STR only one. Makes perfect sense to you I'm sure.

How does changing STR to only affecting attack power make it more useful for anyone? It already does that somewhat, you're actually taking the additional benefit of STR away and putting it on DEX. Why would you use anything but VIT/DEX in this new setting? It's just like the VIT/STR setting we have now but just switching the useless stat around, and your "spread point more" logic is meaningless. Players are going to max their stats to perfect the role they want to play no matter how bad you mess up what each one benefits.

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I kind of agree with what they were going for.... there are more than 2 useful stats
Glad needs:
VIT for HP
VIT for defense
DEX for Evade
DEX for Block Rate
STR for amount of damage blocked
STR for damage dealt (Which theoretically generates the most hate)
PIE for magic evasion, which for a tank vs a primal can be a big deal

on top of that, with gear and materia you'll want to boost HP, Defense, possibly enmity generation
So yea, STR still matters for Blocking....

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Originally Posted by Stufoo

STR for blocking (instead of VIT or DEX) makes sense, it alleviates the issue of the dedicated tank class (GLA) from stacking only VIT, since they also use it for physical defense and HP, and since they aren't a heavy damage dealing class, the extra STR benefits them only slightly in doing more damage output for keeping hate.

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I think we are looking at Blocking on an "All damage vs zero damage" basis
But DEX determines how often I block, and STR determines how much I block for, whether that is all damage or just partial damage.

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Originally Posted by Stufoo

The point still stands that even if they make DEX govern blocking that GLA will become even worse at it, it's our second lowest stat and we have no DEX gear at all, stat merits and the new jewelry won't be able to push us from 190 to what we need to satisfactorily mitigate stronghold monsters, much less HNMs.

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You can't unequivocally say that without knowing the formula...
For the purpose of this discussion, Glad Dex is just an arbitrary number. The formula could be adjusted so that 200 DEX is an insanely high block rate and scales down from there... It could be made so that 100000000 dex is a perfect block rate and scales down from there. Saying that it shouldn't be based off of Dex because we only have 190 dex points is a moot point without knowing the formula.

For instance...
Say I am the developer of this game, and I want the best possible block rate vs Ifrit to be 25% with a fully geared Glad
(I know it's not nearly that high, I'm just giving an example)
I can take the best block rated shield + The highest possible DEX that a Glad can have with best gear and materia....
And make the formula so THAT causes a 25% block rate on Ifrit.... and scales down from there
whether that DEX number is 100 or 100,000,000 it is all relative.

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Originally Posted by Haibel

My question is this; why not bring back AGI & CHR that was taken out in alpha?

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I'm charismatic whether SE has a stat for it or not...
Dammit my guy is charming

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Originally Posted by Rydin

But DEX determines how often I block, and STR determines how much I block for, whether that is all damage or just partial damage.

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Have you tested that, at all? Have you spent a second of your time on this or are you just posting about it? STR helps block rate at the moment, in 1.19a. I don't know that DEX doesn't because that's not how it has ever been and I'm not going to bother testing it, my STR+100 setup is giving good enough results for blocking across every monster.

Also you can't get non-partial blocks without stoneskin or deflection. It won't happen no matter how much you raise whatever stat you think helps it.

Besides, Bayohne said that STR was only attack power, he didn't say anything about it boosting your shield mitigation, which is why I asked him in my first post. The only thing he thinks he left off was physical evasion, which would be DEX.

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Originally Posted by Rydin

Saying that it shouldn't be based off of Dex because we only have 190 dex points is a moot point without knowing the formula.

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They can scale it however they want, they can boost GLA's DEX all they want, as long as it works. At the moment, 220 STR (natural GLA50) will get you about 5% block rate against a lv. 55 doblyn, self preservation ups this to 10% I guess. 300 STR will put you up to about 27~30% block rate against a lv. 55 doblyn. I have seen vast improvements from using high STR on every single type of monster, leves, Tarbh, Uraeus, stronghold trash and bosses, everything, and my DEX hasn't moved a single point. My assumption is that currently you'll need to have about 350 or more STR or whatever they change shield block rate to in the future to adequately mitigate an HNM caliber monster (rank 60~66).

This may all change in 1.2, especially with merits and the new jewelry stats. All of the dev posts seem like they are talking about the future anyways, even though they just redid the stat system. Still, all three mitigation techniques shouldn't be governed by the same stat.

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

Since you are all discussing stat changes, post patch 1.19, I thought I'd pass along some info regarding the changes to stats that we received from Triairy. It looks like he left off physical evasion, so I'll bug him about it. ;)

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Thanks for the response! Do you happen to know if it is a glitch that adding DEX/STR shows no change in the attribute window in regards to what they effect or if it is intended?

Edit: For those wondering about cure, check one of my posts on pg1.

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Originally Posted by Stufoo

Have you tested that, at all? Have you spent a second of your time on this or are you just posting about it? STR helps block rate at the moment, in 1.19a. I don't know that DEX doesn't because that's not how it has ever been and I'm not going to bother testing it, my STR+100 setup is giving good enough results for blocking across every monster.

Also you can't get non-partial blocks without stoneskin or deflection. It won't happen no matter how much you raise whatever stat you think helps it.

Besides, Bayohne said that STR was only attack power, he didn't say anything about it boosting your shield mitigation, which is why I asked him in my first post. The only thing he thinks he left off was physical evasion, which would be DEX.

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I am sure I've seen that posted since 1.19 but I can't find it or give any factual data so I will concede that point. However, he also didn't mention STR increasing your block RATE.... but here you are saying it does.... I'm wondering (and this is hypothesis only) if STR is Block amount, but the damage mitigated has to be over a certain amount to actually trigger a block.
For instance, My DEX says that I should block.
My STR stat has determined that the amount of blocked damage will be only 8%.
If the mitigated damage is less than 25%, no block occurs
In that instance, a higher STR will cause more perceived blocks.
It's just a theory, but it is plausible
And yes, I am a main glad, have been 50 in it since last nov/dec and I parse my data regularly. Extensively since 1.19

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Originally Posted by Stufoo

They can scale it however they want, they can boost GLA's DEX all they want, as long as it works. At the moment, 220 STR (natural GLA50) will get you about 5% block rate against a lv. 55 doblyn, self preservation ups this to 10% I guess. 300 STR will put you up to about 27~30% block rate against a lv. 55 doblyn. I have seen vast improvements from using high STR on every single type of monster, leves, Tarbh, Uraeus, stronghold trash and bosses, everything, and my DEX hasn't moved a single point. My assumption is that currently you'll need to have about 350 or more STR or whatever they change shield block rate to in the future to adequately mitigate an HNM caliber monster (rank 60~66).

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We need some clarification because what you are saying is in direct contradiction to what Bayohne just said.

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Originally Posted by Stufoo

This may all change in 1.2, especially with merits and the new jewelry stats. All of the dev posts seem like they are talking about the future anyways, even though they just redid the stat system. Still, all three mitigation techniques shouldn't be governed by the same stat.

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I don't mind it because no class can do all 3
If you could evade, parry and block all on the same class then maybe it would be better to spread it over multiple stats... but for all intents and purposes, Parry and Block have become the same thing (Being that you can't do both, not saying that they work equally well)

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Originally Posted by Glaurung

Thanks Bayohne! :D
Question thou, which stat would effect crit hit rate? Thanks!

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^ This. PGL feeds off crits, and it only makes sense that DEX would be the stat in the equation.

Just chiming in to share some testing by a jp player on the "DEX=block?" subject.

http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...entry?e=260665

It's all in japanese, so some of the finer points may be missed, but it's quite obvious that boosting DEX did absolutely nothing for block rate. Block rate actually decreased due to the sacrifice of STR in some slots to stack DEX. I've personally seen a noticeable increase in block rate by stacking STR (albeit a small sample size).

Hopefully we get a dev response on how exactly they intend for these stats to work!

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Originally Posted by Rydin

I don't mind it because no class can do all 3
If you could evade, parry and block all on the same class then maybe it would be better to spread it over multiple stats... but for all intents and purposes, Parry and Block have become the same thing (Being that you can't do both, not saying that they work equally well)

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Evading hurts gladiator, and it makes no sense to evade in full plate. Every time you evade it is a lost phalanx, it is a lost self-heal from boon, it is lost TP bonus from outmaneuver, and it even gives less TP than deflection blocks. It should be a very low chance to evade on the plate classes outside of forced featherfoots for mitigating TP moves.

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Originally Posted by Chadwick

Just chiming in to share some testing by a jp player on the "DEX=block?" subject.

it's quite obvious that boosting DEX did absolutely nothing for block rate. Block rate actually decreased

Hopefully we get a dev response on how exactly they intend for these stats to work!

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¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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Originally Posted by Stufoo

Evading hurts gladiator, and it makes no sense to evade in full plate. Every time you evade it is a lost phalanx, it is a lost self-heal from boon, it is lost TP bonus from outmaneuver, and it even gives less TP than deflection blocks. It should be a very low chance to evade on the plate classes outside of forced featherfoots for mitigating TP moves.



¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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The chance to evade should be lower.. but not impossible.....

And yes... I believe it because you now because I saw it in Japanese... even more so than I believe the Dev who works for SE....
really?

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Originally Posted by Rydin

The chance to evade should be lower.. but not impossible.....

And yes... I believe it because you now because I saw it in Japanese... even more so than I believe the Dev who works for SE....
really?

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Go test it yourself then, lazy.