Entitled DPS, please stop being entitled

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Originally Posted by Adire

Refusing to give up your right to do your job as you please during a tie does not = entitled...

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Then how is he entitled if he played his job the way he wanted to?

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Originally Posted by SummerSkye

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/facepalm

More people not reading...

ONE dps wanted exp. TWO people if you count the healer. 2 is not a majority in a 4 man. Me and my friend wanted a run without optional mob kills. And I've already said numerous times that if people ask me, not demand of me, or if I'm outnumbered, I go with the flow or leave.

And the healer had no problems with a "speed run", or did not say anything about having problems with it. She wanted all mobs killed.

Not to mention, this was in DD...the crystal buff makes an overgeared tank practically indestructible unless you pull all the first rooms at the same time, which I didn't.

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Originally Posted by Dorander

Of course they are. The tank controls the pace of the dungeon. I will (and have) let someone die if they pull extra mobs. Oh look, I forgot how to flash or provoke. If they don't like the pace I'm setting, level up a tank and run the dungeon yourself.

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Totally agree. DPS have no business pulling mobs.

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

I got bad news but you are coming off as entitled yourself. Yes, tanks are the bus driver in dungeons runs but they also need to listen to the entire party about the direction to take, more so when it's lower levels for experience points. I wasn't there so I don't know the story except what you bring so yes, the dps could have been more polite in asking for running the complete dungeon. If you couldn't run the entire dungeon you should have explained why instead you ended up just having a bad time.

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What's iffy about taking things by word of mouth is that we never know if it's a matter of misunderstanding or personal perspective. There are MANY people out there that take any disagreement, even a "no thank you" to mean "GO **** YOURSELF!" in their mind.

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Originally Posted by Dorander

Of course they are. The tank controls the pace of the dungeon. I will (and have) let someone die if they pull extra mobs. Oh look, I forgot how to flash or provoke. If they don't like the pace I'm setting, level up a tank and run the dungeon yourself.

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Indeed. Unless you're one of those power trip idiots that don't even give a damn about circumstance (healer not geared enough or is too fresh for mass pulls or DPS comp isn't right for it), and rage at the fact you're oblivious to your own group.

Although I agree that that's probably one of the worst ways to ask everyone else on whether to pull extra adds for exp, I disagree with your mentality of you 'dictating' the pace of the run. (Funny that, because the tank does just the same. The thread might as well be retitled hypocrite inside). You say part of a tank's role is to set out the pace of the dungeon, as well as tanking mobs as the job title obviously implies. What if people disagree with the pacing of the dungeon run? The same way you're disagreeing with how well the dps are dpsing and maybe how well the healer heals. My point is that tanks rely just as much on healers and dps as much as they rely on the tanks. In short, a tank is -nothing- without the other 2 roles - hence, a dungeon run is a group effort. You demanding that you fully control one of the core aspects of the dungeon which is setting the pace is absolutely absurd, because the dps and healers have every right to have a say in how a dungeon should be run.

In your specific scenario however, I guess I do have a bit of sympathy for you because of how poorly the dps handled it. But as always, if you definitely disagree with everyone else, you've made your point and you couldn't persuade the others. Either leave or bear with it, or you kick the person with the most unpopular opinion and you carry on.

No... tanks jobs in the party is to make sure they keep the enemies focus on them, so healers can heal, and DPS can cause damage and kill. Secondly, they are supposed to lead and grab hate before anyone else does. As far as doing a full dungeon clear or not, is not simply up to the tank or an entitlement given to the tank, it is the decision of the party, since the whole party is running the dungeon, not working for the tank. It is a "group" effort, but of course not one(tank or dps) should be calling the shots. It should be addressed and voted on/spoken about and decided on before starting of course. It's just polite and common courtesy to talk things out first.

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Originally Posted by StouterTaru

Then how is he entitled if he played his job the way he wanted to?

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.....because he wasn't the tank? A dps pulling mobs and a healer refusing to heal when they know it isn't their job to do that and ordering/forcing the tank to do as they want when it's the tank's job to pull mobs is pretty entitled, lol...O.o.

That would be like a WHM refusing to heal and ordering a SMN to heal because WHM can do better AoE damage...

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And are people still not understanding that this group was deadlocked in a tie?

There. was. no. majority.

That means run pacing is rightfully up to the tank, due to it being most related to their job.

Last I checked, it wasn't common practice or commonly accepted for dps to gather up mobs when there is a competent tank present...

I'm pretty sure SE agrees with me. There's a reason why DPS who do that tend to end up kissing the floor.

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Originally Posted by Adire

And the healer had no problems with a "speed run", or did not say anything about having problems with it. She wanted all mobs killed.

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Part of the definition of a "speed run" is skipping optional mobs. It's not just pulling large groups and locking out trash at bosses when you can.

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Originally Posted by Adire

There. was. no. majority.

That means run pacing is rightfully up to the tank, due to it being most related to their job.

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So the tank is entitled to break the tie?

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Originally Posted by Adire

.....because he wasn't the tank? A dps pulling mobs and a healer refusing to heal when they know it isn't their job to do that and ordering/forcing the tank to do as they want when it's the tank's job to pull mobs is pretty entitled, lol...O.o.

That would be like a WHM refusing to heal and ordering a SMN to heal because WHM can do better AoE damage...

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And are people still not understanding that this group was deadlocked in a tie?

There. was. no. majority.

That means run pacing is rightfully up to the tank, due to it being most related to their job.

Last I checked, it wasn't common practice or commonly accepted for dps to gather up mobs when there is a competent tank present...

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I think people understand what you are saying, and have sympathy for your situation. But I think people are against your idea that Tanks are the elite sole jurisdiction when it comes to making all the decisions that should be made by the whole party.

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Originally Posted by StouterTaru

Part of the definition of a "speed run" is skipping optional mobs. It's not just pulling large groups and locking out trash at bosses when you can.

So the tank is entitled to break the tie?

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The post the first quote was directed towards was one obviously focused on the increased damage taken during a speed run.

And nice try, attempting to spin words that make your position look favorable.

If they are "entitled", SE gave them that entitlement due to how tanks are designed. Are they not the best equipped to pull mobs?

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Originally Posted by PEANUT

I think people understand what you are saying, and have sympathy for your situation. But I think people are against your idea that Tanks are the elite sole jurisdiction when it comes to making all the decisions that should be made by the whole party.

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I believe people are getting the wrong idea then. Not surprised given how clear it is that some haven't even read much into this topic.

I do not have that idea that "tanks are the elite sole jurisdiction".

I have said several times, and I'll say it yet again:

If people outnumber me who want exp, I will do a clear or leave.

If people ask me nicely and the majority doesn't have a problem with a clear, I will do a clear or leave.

And I have yet to leave. In every situation so far, I have done the clear over leaving.

If there is a tie between interests, I will do what I want if I am the tank. If I am not the tank, I leave it up to the tank. I do not go and pull mobs as a dps or healer like a child, because it's clear from the way that the roles are designed that that is intended to be done by tanks.