Please Consider Helping New Players

Yesterday I was going through pharos for a book completion on smn. Had a tank that was new and asked for advice on the bosses as we got to them but apparently didn't like advice as he got super pissed at me when I told him to keep the bird faced away from his healer. He then went on a rant about how he was asking for any special specifics and not "tank 101', mind you he kept spinning the thing and hitting the healer with it lol. After that one I just ignored him being mad and still told him the boss mechanics he needed to know for the rest of the dungeon and he seemed fine. I'm not the one who looks down on players or talk to them like they are lesser than I am just because they are new to anything. I actually tend to go out of my way and help people clear things they need and even if we die 100 times try to keep it positive. If someones going to explain mechanics for you then you probably shouldn't be rude about it when you get what you ask for.

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Originally Posted by charlemagne

I've done this many times. -snip-

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This is not an excuse. If a certain mob is -really- that much more important to hit out of the tanks order, then take the 10 seconds to say so, so the rest of the run will be smoother. Just blindly hitting a mob out of order creates problems. If the tank can't take the criticism (assuming you took the time to do so without borderline harassment), then let the tank figure it out by dying faster and letting the heals complain. All your doing is putting undue stress on the tank trying to keep 1 up while doing the same for whatever mob your going spaz on, and also eventually putting more strain on the heals which could possibly even be doing dps themselves if extra healing wasn't needed.

The only part I agree with this post, somewhat, is the bit on BLMs. Typically tanks should know yes, but again if the don't, say something.

Maybe reading some of the hundreds of guides out there? Maybe taking a fc mate and going out in the empty useless world we have and grab a few mobs and practice? Maybe run the dungeon with fc mates to get a feel? Maybe warn the party that you have no idea what you're doing which really isn't an excuse because the classes aren't hard to learn. Now while I don't agree with insulting people because they're bad players, it's really no excuse to be bad in a game this easy.

For some reason this game has an abnormal amount of bad players. I left for awhile, came back and it feels like it's even more bad players now. You really can't expect everyone to explain people's classes as often as it needs to be done can you? Explaining a dungeon is one thing, explaining your class is an entirely different issue.

Thanks for saying this. Because for the longest time, I wasn't aware of the fact that I wasn't using the skills of being a Dragoon effectively because my skill setup was always used for one-on-one encounters and wasn't set up for dungeons and duties. So I never really knew how to use my Dragoon skills and when I got past the main story, and started doing the advanced dungeons, I was outted and even kicked out of duties for not using the attacks that I had no idea how to use.

This was especially prominent in Brayflox's Longstop Hard. I have never seen such vicious dialogue and such hatred used by players in an MMO before and because of the reputation of the players who were doing that duty and the way they treated me, it made me HATE Brayflox's Longstop Hard.

Once someone finally told me without treating me like crap how to use all of my Dragoon skills, I was finally able to start being treated respectfully and I am more comfortable going to dungeons.

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Originally Posted by Titor

If a new player cannot take 4 seconds to read what their new skill does, I am not going to spoon-feed them. Why should I waste my time typing out a long explanation when they could not even read a tiny snippet of a tooltip? The active help explains most of this, so there is no excuse of never having the knowledge of what does what.

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I don't really see this as a good reason to not help people. There's a lot of nuances to skills that don't really come across in tooltips that people that are new to MMOs won't really understand. For example, you may see that X skill gives enmity but how are you supposed to know from the tooltip that HOLY CRAP RAGE OF HALONE IS CRAZY HATE compared to something like Flash which does its hate up-front without combo'ing?

Almost every time I go into Cutter's Cry I have to teach a BLM that spamming Fire 3 is bad because they look at the skill description and see it has a lot more potency than Fire but don't realize that you can cast a ton more Fires than Fire 3s before having to change to Umbral Ice.

Then there's weird cases like a L50 SMN I know that never used Bane because tanks would never be able to pull hate off of him in dungeons once he got it, because the level you get Bane some players don't have jobs unlocked and PLD in particular does not have Shield Oath yet so their AOE tanking is spotty.

Taking a minute of your time to make a run go much more smoothly is worth it, but obviously only if the person is willing to take the advice. It's much better than grumbling about it the entire run.

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Originally Posted by HakuroDK

I help because helping other people makes me feel good.

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I agree 100% it's great seeing things fall into place with a party with just a few helpful words after starting out badly.

But, as has been brought up numerous times, what about those who derp, you give them advice, I usually start with something like, "A good tip I was given was to do this n this and it helped me a lot when I was learning.". Yet still get totally ignored, laughed at or have expletives thrown back at you. Then they continue to derp. Get a couple of people like that in a row and you can easily start to think why bother?

Movie called "Idiocracy" should be required watching in school nowadays imho. Only thing is that in the movie it's 500 years in the future when in reality I'm guessing for it to happen in more like 50 lol. Being able to hide behind the intrawebz and say or do what ever you want with no repercussions isn't a good thing and I hope some day they figure out how to make it less easy.

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Originally Posted by Maza

.... Being able to hide behind the intrawebz and say or do what ever you want with no repercussions isn't a good thing and I hope some day they figure out how to make it less easy.

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If you like censorship so much, I hear there is this nice place called North Korea. They like to have more people like you there. Some nerve to come the forum and call everyone "idiots" for being part of the "idiocracy". If you want to spam and put up advertisement for a movie unrelated to the game, the forum is not a place for that.

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

.... Get a couple of people like that in a row and you can easily start to think why bother?

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A couple of people is hardly representative of the whole player base. Obvious trolls are obvious, and you can report them to the GM. But you need more patience and persistence than just go "why bother?" Something like T5, T7, T9 or whatever other coils will need a lot more than 50 wipes to do. New players will need to taught. The "Why bother?" attitude is one the major obstacles to being inclusive and helping new and newer players learn and progress.

Try to help but if they won't accept help then proceed to carry and co ordinate with whomever is not acting like a sore i don't want to do it player. If that fails then just vote abandon and save them and urself the grief.
Nothing wrong in backing out if its too much to handle.

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Originally Posted by Titor

I am not going to spoon-feed them.

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Exactly.

If you don't want to learn your class (which is how I look at it) why do you expect me to teach it too you? There's so many guides and videos out there that explains everything. Yet people refuse to look at those or just read the skill description.

When I started tanking on WAR which was way different than PLD (what I started off with) I admit, I was pretty terrible. BUT I read guides, watched videos and then went and grabbed mobs and a few people and practice grabbing aggro and holding it.