Bard - they broke my job

It's semantics. BRD definitely isn't broken to be unplayable, but the addition of cast times definitely broke some stuff with bards, enough to make the class unappealing to a good handful of former bard players over machinist, especially when they are so homogenized.

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Originally Posted by SlyRoyale

Joking aside, many people are making BRD sound worse than it actually is. While there are legitimate QoL issues with it, the job is not broken by any means.

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It really is blown out of proportion IMO. From playing both I would say that BRD, even in it's "unfinished" form (VS MCN that feels more polished) has higher potential than MCN damage wise.

Glaring QoL Issue are:
1: Not being able to only display your detrimental effects on Focus Target (A Multi Dotting must have due to the short timers on VB/WB)
2: Repelling Shot animation clipping the GCD which cancels your cast if you start it prior to landing during the animation (in some cases it can be a DPS loss due to delaying your next skill use by too long)
3: Straighter Shot procs not showing up before the GCD ends after a Heavy Shot use.
4: oGCD clipping due to short window after skill cast time (class does not flow like it used to - Major Issue for Bards main mechanic River of Blood)

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This is why I think that Repelling Shot making your next WS instant cast would be a great addition, due to fixing the animation clipping and giving additional opportunities to weave oGCD's. @ 20's CD from 30s it would give an equivalent effect similar to MCN Quick Reload.

I think if they added that + Fixed SS Procs showing up sooner and increased the SS proc chance to 30%, that the class would play almost identical to how it did before.

Not being able to aim Flaming Arrow before your castbar will finish is annoying the fk out of me. Especially when you play with a controller.

I agree 100% with what Judge said above.

Ive withheld posting in here for months. I don't agree that the class is broken. However the class has a VERY high skill cap for optimal raid dps at the moment. I'm seriously at the end of my rope here. I have been a top tier raider in multiple mmos and even I cant grasp why Bard is so retarded to master on movement based fights. I considered myself exceptional at every class Ive played until now and sadly it just feels like I should quit Bard all together.

Bard is by far the least mobile class.
You are punished quit severely if you mess up with exception of the priority system.
You lose an enormous amount of dps while moving.
Good luck at getting any decent filler uptime when the timing on dots/buffs is so tight.
Lets not forget that we have to support the entire group while maintaining damage.

All of this could be fixed by just adding in something similar to a RuinII skill for bard....not Feint, not dropping WM.

If there is anyone out there that is an expert at Bard in its current state that is will ling to advise me on my play from my stream/logs then please. Contact me on my blog or here.

There is a reason this page is now almost at 150 pages. When only a small percentile of players in the world can truly optimize a class something has to be considered.

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Originally Posted by Junified

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this post really blows everything out of proportion
the only severe punishment, and enormous DPS loss that comes from the situations you described involve dropping your dots.
If you have to move, yeah sure let's pretend that feint/stance dancing don't exist just like how scathe on BLM doesn't exist, that's a fair bit of potency but still not a lot. If you TAKE ADVANTAGE OF YOUR FULL JOB'S TOOLKIT and flip off WM, or even feint, you are barely losing anything.

The only difference between Ruin 2/scathe, and what BRD has, is that BRD's choice is situational and probably one of the few decisions in this game that you oiften have to make on the fly rather than being something that's the absolute same every time as a melee rotation can be. However, there's nothing really special about deciding which one you should do. I can agree that the job has a much higher skill cap now, compared to before but there's nothing really special about optimizing it in fights when there are already other caster jobs in the game.

Those are fair statements but we do have a lot to prioritize before just mindlessly pressing buttons compared to heavy rotation base classes.
I'm here seeking help not argument. Please criticize all you want but make it in a constructive manner^^

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Originally Posted by Junified

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Pointing out where you're wrong and explaining how can easily be constructive but you can feel free to ask me any questions or link your vids or whatever else.
http://pastebin.com/sTg8d5mL
There's an old guide I hastily scrawled up too but eh, I wrote that guide for somebody who sounded pretty lost on how to play the job so it's more for somebody who's new/unfamiliar.

But explaining how something is wrong can easily translate to constructive for a player who can adapt. I actually find that a lot of guides don't actually explain why you should do this/that, though some things are obvious and don't need an explanation, it really promotes improvement to know the methodology because a good makeup of the skill ceiling in this game is adapting to situations rather than following a guide to the T at all times.

This BLM is 60, my DRG is 56 and my Bard (who used to be my main) is almost 53.
I say she used to be simply because without the hard hitters like EA & IJ, WM is just plain painful and a constant source of frustration. Loss of every instant cast, AA, altered barrage and screwed up proccing...instead of watching the playing field I found myself needing to watch my bars most of the time as opposed to pre 3.0.
Both DRG and BLM lost nothing in playstyle. They may not have broken bard but no other class had to completely relearn their class.

I'll probably like her again once she's got the full post 50 kit but she'll be the last one I get to 60 now.

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Originally Posted by Inferiae

I'm not by any means a top Bard, but went to do A1 normal without WM, just out of curiosity. The TP efficiency is terrible. I had to turn it on by the first jump because I was starving for TP.

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yeah that's the reason why i tried getting used to MW after some weeks of flamig that skillmechanic. Alex and everything beyond is just terrible for TP-management without MW. And guess what...

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Originally Posted by SlyRoyale

I am having fun with WM as I like seeing big numbers caused by my bow and the animation for firing Empyreal Arrows is beautiful. You mean to say that people do not find this objectively fun? What is the world coming to?!

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...now im having great fun with MW and enjoy playing BRD again :)

Ok so quick question on general rotation. Correct me if im wrong. With every filler "rotation" 18s w/o EMp arrow. Should i be getting 5 or 6 HS? Assuming I IJ/SS. Im asking becuase im seeing ss uptime lower then my own and assuming people are clipping a final HS before SS again.

Thanks for the write up I learned some new tricks.

After doing some research I found that in a pefect situation you can indeed get 6 shots off but most times 5 is what I've seen. Agood goal is 5.

@Junified
I really do get that you want advice and to learn which is what the community should be about (wrong thread mind you) however
and if you do not want to get critiqued by saying "Bard is by far the least mobile class"
well that is by far completely false, and also other classes are believe it or not punished more if you mess up.
Level and play blm @60 and you may change your opinion.

I believe Rice has more or less been accurate on what the real issues are with Bard.

ok in all seriousness what is current optimal dps brd rotation?

All of the homework I've been doing has paid off. To answer the question above.
Dot EMP,hs>3sec IJ,SS, repeat.
When you have buffs up align HE with B4B(use this right before IJ, and again when buffs are at around 3sec.
Prioritize Bloodletter over hs if they are both up.
This the most optimal way to get the most out your buffs.
Combo EMP with ss procs if they are both up emp>ss.
These are the basics of the rotation during an encounter.

im not even sure why are bards complaining... we are in a good spot atm, not perfect though.
In terms of movement we can stutter step really well, better then a BLM but worse the a MCH or a SMN
Minuet scalability with gear is insanely good, and having Bloodletter/RoD as oGCD insta cast while minuet is godsend.
We should be focusing on the QoL changes, to make the class more desirable.
I wish for some of the following changes:
*Straigther shot proc fix.
*1.5sec cast time for all songs. (MCH can ogcd theirs...)
*Remove wardens paeon or rework it totally to a foes for melee.
*Give us more movement options like MCH have with qReload and Reload, instead of praying to RNGesus for a straighter shot proc.
*Let Barrage Crit

In terms of rotation the only things that feels out of place & clunky is hard cast empy on a normal oGCD which eats a few milliseconds of the next GCD.

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Originally Posted by KrietorSenpai

Straigther shot proc fix.

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SE could change it so the proc appears instantly after a Heavy Shot cast much like how Sharper Fang & Claw and Enhanced Wheeling Thrust proc.

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Originally Posted by KrietorSenpai

1.5sec cast time for all songs.

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To go further, songs could also be taken off the GCD and be given a 10s recast and have their cast time shortened to 1s like where Swiftsong is. That may be a bit much, but I'd say it's worth sitting on.

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Originally Posted by KrietorSenpai

Remove wardens paeon or rework it totally to a foes for melee.

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A physical version of Foe Requiem would be nice, but I think SE wants to marry Paean to the idea of it being a support spell. If that's the case, SE should take it off the GCD (keep it as a spell like Empyreal Arrow is an oGCD weaponskill instead of an ability), give it a 40s, 60s, or 120s recast, and have it prevent any ailments (that can be cleansed) during the 30s it is up on the designated party member.

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Originally Posted by KrietorSenpai

Give us more movement options like MCH have with qReload and Reload, instead of praying to RNGesus for a straighter shot proc.

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Boosting Heavier Shot's chance of proccing Straighter Shot to 25% would be a baby step in the right direction. Another step SE could take is to add a passive trait to Straight Shot when Minuet is active. This trait could be a "Swift Shot" proc, adding a 50% chance of the next Heavy Shot being an instant cast--100% chance if Straighter Shot is used.

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Originally Posted by KrietorSenpai

Let Barrage Crit

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THIS. It would help to make up for what Barrage used to be.

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Originally Posted by KrietorSenpai

In terms of rotation the only things that feels out of place & clunky is hard cast empy on a normal oGCD which eats a few milliseconds of the next GCD.

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That's really the only thing that makes the job feel clunky. This could be fixed by making the cast time instant, or at the very least reduce it to 1s before skill speed scaling.

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Originally Posted by SlyRoyale

To go further, songs could also be taken off the GCD and be given a 10s recast and have their cast time shortened to 1s like where Swiftsong is. That may be a bit much, but I'd say it's worth sitting on.

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There's absolutely no reason that you can't turn off the song if you have GCD on cooldown, they should at least fix that. Especially with how it still clips into your next cast time when you do try to turn it off. Aside from that, I'd rather them not homogenize the two classes even more if they can help it (and we need to weave in two different oGCDs to promote into a mana turret on an average basis, tyvm.)

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Originally Posted by SlyRoyale

A physical version of Foe Requiem would be nice, but I think SE wants to marry Paean to the idea of it being a support spell. If that's the case, SE should take it off the GCD (keep it as a spell like Empyreal Arrow is an oGCD weaponskill instead of an ability), give it a 40s, 60s, or 120s recast, and have it prevent any ailments (that can be cleansed) during the 30s it is up on the designated party member.

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You'd have to be careful of giving BRD a physical damage boost, because at that point you're throwing out MCH's only meaningful perk over BRD (the fact that they have a damage increase toward physical dps which barely breaks even against foe)

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Originally Posted by SlyRoyale

Boosting Heavier Shot's chance of proccing Straighter Shot to 25% would be a baby step in the right direction. Another step SE could take is to add a passive trait to Straight Shot when Minuet is active. This trait could be a "Swift Shot" proc, adding a 50% chance of the next Heavy Shot being an instant cast--100% chance if Straighter Shot is used.

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While I'm for all making BRD more motile, I'm not in for making both jobs motile. It'd homogenize their playstyle even moreso if they don't give MCH their own changes. I'm honestly fine with one job being motile and the other being non/semi motile, as long as the job functions as whole (which is more than what I can say for BRD atm). BLM and SMN can handle the diversity just fine by design and they're still competing with each other for raid slots (if not interchangable, since they share caster gear that some players actually play both)

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Originally Posted by SlyRoyale

THIS. It would help to make up for what Barrage used to be.

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While keeping everything in perspective, BRD doesn't need any more damage in comparison to MCH. From what I've seen, the two are pretty neck-to-neck as of right now, not factoring that their numbers can be boosted from debuffs (specifically, MCH's own physical debuff boosting themselves). Not to mention the only other skill that has a similar functionality is duality, which also does not allow for duplicated crits.

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

There's absolutely no reason that you can't turn off the song if you have GCD on cooldown, they should at least fix that. Especially with how it still clips into your next cast time when you do try to turn it off. Aside from that, I'd rather them not homogenize the two classes even more if they can help it (and we need to weave in two different oGCDs to promote into a mana turret on an average basis, tyvm.)

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Like MNK's "Fist of Wind/Earth/Fire" abilities? They are on their own shared cooldown of 3s, so that would be a step in the right direction. Thing is, SE seems dead-set on having parity between BRD and MCH.

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

You'd have to be careful of giving BRD a physical damage boost, because at that point you're throwing out MCH's only meaningful perk over BRD (the fact that they have a damage increase toward physical dps which barely breaks even against foe)

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While a physical defence reduction song may potentially be overkill, Foe Requiem is stronger than MCH's version of magic defence reduction. Should SE change Paean's effect to what Krietor suggested, MCH's turrets would have to be adjusted so the vulnerability they apply to the targets in range is greater than it is now. Although, I feel that SE wants to keep Paean's current niche novelty, but they should at least make it more convenient. Take away its cast time, make it an oGCD spell with a 90s recast, and have it persist for its full 30s duration even after it negates a cleanse-able ailment.

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

While I'm for all making BRD more motile, I'm not in for making both jobs motile. It'd homogenize their playstyle even moreso if they don't give MCH their own changes. I'm honestly fine with one job being motile and the other being non/semi motile, as long as the job functions as whole (which is more than what I can say for BRD atm). BLM and SMN can handle the diversity just fine by design and they're still competing with each other for raid slots (if not interchangable, since they share caster gear that some players actually play both)

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Thing is, BRD and MCH are very much alike in a lot of respects. It's just that one job benefits more from double-oGCD weaving due to a certain trait it has, while the other can move more freely due to cast times being designed around the job instead of being slapped on like an afterthought. BRD could use a bit of leniency in that area, but mostly around animation locking and Straighter Shot procs. If any differences could be made, BRD could have higher base damage but focus more on group sustainability while MCH has slightly lower base damage but more emphasis on inflicting debuffs.

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

While keeping everything in perspective, BRD doesn't need any more damage in comparison to MCH. From what I've seen, the two are pretty neck-to-neck as of right now, not factoring that their numbers can be boosted from debuffs (specifically, MCH's own physical debuff boosting themselves). Not to mention the only other skill that has a similar functionality is duality, which also does not allow for duplicated crits.

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The main reason why I support allowing abilities like Barrage to have the chances of one-to-all of its hits being able to crit is that it would have the potential to make up for what was a nerf from what the ability originally did. Granted, MCH would also have to be adjusted as an answer to it, but that would require some balancing issues to take into consideration.

Ultimately, I think we can all agree that Straighter Shot needs to be fixed and the Warden's Paean needs to be less niche. Those two changes alone would be a step in the right direction.

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Originally Posted by Junified

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Totally correct besides the last part, there is an *exception* to EA + Straighter shot, however this is from an unfortunate person who currently sits at around 740-800 skillspeed depending on encounters, for example in A1S my 800 skillspeed set is easily better stats and I don't need TP

The thing is though, if you're "lucky" you'll get an SS proc every time EA comes up. If SS lines up with EA, you're using 130 TP in a single GCD, so while the lack of GCD clipping on EA looks tasty it can burn the hell out of your TP. I tend to avoid doing it too often if I'm getting lucky with SS procs, and I choose to hold EA for my next GCD to both save TP, and "check" for another SS proc since you can do SS -> HS (EA) -> SS if it procs.

It's really just another one of those bard things where it changes depending on the situation, though.

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Originally Posted by SlyRoyale

Like MNK's "Fist of Wind/Earth/Fire" abilities? They are on their own shared cooldown of 3s, so that would be a step in the right direction. Thing is, SE seems dead-set on having parity between BRD and MCH.

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It's well within their design to make an oGCD have a cast time. The problem is that because it's currently on the GCD, disabling it is also on the GCD as well (which means you can't acutally "weave" disabling a song) considering the potential uptime and the potential potency of the regens, the cast time for the song itself is fine as it is, just not disabling the song or using it.

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Originally Posted by SlyRoyale

Thing is, BRD and MCH are very much alike in a lot of respects. It's just that one job benefits more from double-oGCD weaving due to a certain trait it has, while the other can move more freely due to cast times being designed around the job instead of being slapped on like an afterthought. BRD could use a bit of leniency in that area, but mostly around animation locking and Straighter Shot procs. If any differences could be made, BRD could have higher base damage but focus more on group sustainability while MCH has slightly lower base damage but more emphasis on inflicting debuffs.

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Which is part of the problem. We don't want two jobs to play on entirely the same concept, which is almost the case right now. All the two does is keep their debuffs refreshed, keep their own buffs up, be re-active to their procs (which BRD can't do effectively). The only difference I can honestly bring up is the fact that MCH can move better than BRD (which honestly, should not be the only differentiation to the two jobs) and giving straighter shot an increased proc to mirror that would throw it outside the window. They have their own different burst execution, but that only comes up so often in a given fight, that everything else after that have the two executing the same flow of using a filler, watching for procs, using the procs, and using oGCDs when it comes off. There's no management of resources (mana cycling for blm) or limited/building up buffs (like aetherflow or wrath) The ammo system is incredibly straightforward and at best an afterthought since you're encouraged to use quick reload as it comes off cooldown, and ammo itself only has an "additional effect" to two abilities in your entire toolkit, the rest being a flat +20 potency boost. The turret ultimately means very little since it's mostly place and forget, it's not that expansive to how MCH plays as a job compared to BRD (which is different from playing the job effectively).

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Originally Posted by SlyRoyale

The main reason why I support allowing abilities like Barrage to have the chances of one-to-all of its hits being able to crit is that it would have the potential to make up for what was a nerf from what the ability originally did. Granted, MCH would also have to be adjusted as an answer to it, but that would require some balancing issues to take into consideration.

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This is what I need to address. As of right now, do you need barrage to be buffed to the way it was? Before, it was brought up to make a point that BRDs had actually lost damage going into 3.0 because of both changes to 2.0 traits and new abilities that were questionable (WM). You don't need to change old skills back to the way it was as long as it still balances the effectiveness/performance in the long run (which seems to be the case, more or less assuming that everything else works out)

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Originally Posted by aabe

Totally correct besides the last part, there is an *exception* to EA + Straighter shot, however this is from an unfortunate person who currently sits at around 740-800 skillspeed depending on encounters, for example in A1S my 800 skillspeed set is easily better stats and I don't need TP

The thing is though, if you're "lucky" you'll get an SS proc every time EA comes up. If SS lines up with EA, you're using 130 TP in a single GCD, so while the lack of GCD clipping on EA looks tasty it can burn the hell out of your TP. I tend to avoid doing it too often if I'm getting lucky with SS procs, and I choose to hold EA for my next GCD to both save TP, and "check" for another SS proc since you can do SS -> HS (EA) -> SS if it procs.

It's really just another one of those bard things where it changes depending on the situation, though.

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Hitting SS with the proc (but not using the proc) actually delays your oGCD cast, including Empyreal Arrow. Which honestly makes absolutely no sense from a game-design perspective that this is going into bug/glitch territory. Otherwise you're normally supposed to be able to use an oGCD right after the cast finishes.

Somewhat stating the obvious, but one way in which they could make BRD more distinct from MCH would be to go in harder on songs - but more specifically, the MP management aspect. Right now the fact that Foe's eats at the same pool as Ballad/Paeon is occasionally meaningful when comparing to MCH, and if Warden's did something more generally useful with a MP drain attached you'd be getting into some interesting MP juggling territory.

And if they went even farther and made Ballad no longer regen your own MP, there'd be a stronger case for the idea Krietor put forth on Frosty's show of severely reducing - or even nixing - the damage penalty on Ballad/Paeon because the MP loss (and cast time) could be a sufficiently significant sacrifice on its own.

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Originally Posted by Cetonis

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There's so many ways they could have gone about it with 5 additional abilities, and really MCH as a whole.

-Wanderer's could have been a self-damage buff that drained their TP as it was active. Their next few abilities (cough paeon cough) would act as ways for them to maintain a positive upkeep of TP. They'd become a class that's contingent on managing their TP in the same manner that BLM manages their MP.

-Different attachments for different purposes. Instead of giving carbon copies of quick notch and wide valley, one attachment could've increased TP cost and reduce the damage of weaponskills while giving an AoE effect to it. Gauss Barrel would then be the stationary, single target DPS that adds cast time. Could've gone beyond that and make proc'd cleanshots give a magnetic charge that acted as a pre-requisite for gauss round or ricochet.
--Taking the above, BRD could have remained the mobile ranged class between the two (and ultimately, their tool kit would remain intact with no issues).

Ultimately from what I heard in their presentations, they had scrapped the attachment idea and it just feels like an utter letdown with what we have now, especially in retrospect of what BRD has comparatively.

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

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I think you understood my post incorrectly because what I was talking about has nothing to do with SS procs being buggy, however I've been aware of that bug for quite a while. I've actually come to learn to react to the SS proc and just put off reapplying SS for that reason.

Like, for example, in your rotation, this happens:

HS, HS (ss procs), Iron Jaws, Use SS proc, Empyreal arrow just came off CD so use that during the 2.5 GCD of Straighter

I'm pretty sure most people see that happen and say "oh, it's my lucky day EA didn't clip my GCD at all! big deeps!" but it can happen to the point that it melts your TP bar away. I was just sayin it's not something you wanna do every time it occurs.

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Originally Posted by aabe

,,,

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Except in that scenario, you'd also want to make sure you want SS active before you reapply iron jaws. I'm talking about a perspective where the proc occurs around the time you need to refresh SS above all else, and the proc just happens to be there and delays your next oGCD.

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HS, HS (ss procs), Use SS (proc not used) proc, Iron Jaws, Empyreal arrow

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You'd have to clip into your next weaponskill either way by using empyreal arrow first, or delaying your empyreal arrow after SS . And even then, this isn't something that theoretically drains your TP bar *faster* because you aren't using empyreal arrow that much more frequently until you get into the really long fights or have incredibly high SS in your case (Which is not exclusive to empyreal arrow draining your TP, but having high skill speed speed up your GCDs that causes the faster depletion of TP)

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

You'd have to clip into your next weaponskill either way by using empyreal arrow first, or delaying your empyreal arrow after SS .

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Or you just do

HS > HS (SS procs) > Use SS (proc not used) proc > IJ > SS proc > EA

because the SS proc has a long runoff and will still be up 1 gcd later for you to pop it going into EA; thus 0 gcd clipping. It's a bug in the same way as casting Fire 1 on BLM and then hitting Fire III as a proc hits doesn't proc Firestarter and causes you to hard-cast full MP Fire III. It's not a bug, it's latency in skill activation; there's a delay between proc activation and the buff being on your bar. If you watch that video you linked again, you'll see he starts casting Straight Shot before he even has the Straighter Shot buff on his bar.

Basically, it's time to learn what BLMs learned back in 2.0. Don't do HS (proc!) SS - do HS (proc!) HS SS.

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Originally Posted by JackFross

Or you just do

HS > HS (SS procs) > Use SS (proc not used) proc > IJ > SS proc > EA

because the SS proc has a long runoff and will still be up 1 gcd later for you to pop it going into EA; thus 0 gcd clipping. It's a bug in the same way as casting Fire 1 on BLM and then hitting Fire III as a proc hits doesn't proc Firestarter and causes you to hard-cast full MP Fire III.
Basically, it's time to learn what BLMs learned back in 2.0. Don't do HS (proc!) SS - do HS (proc!) HS SS.

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But now you're delaying empyreal arrow, which is your strongest oGCD that should be used as it comes up. I say it's a bug because it's not in the same merit as BLM because BRD cast times are 1.5 seconds out of a 2.5 GCD (and so is MCH, where quite frankly they do not have this problem). Realistically, they shouldn't even have a problem with SS because their cast time is shorter than the GCD, but the issue we have here is that you can't even force a refresh by using an oGCD, and for some reason getting your SS in when your previous HS proc'd it would delay your oGCD weaving, which then clips into your next GCD weaponskill

A BLM can force their refresh with an oGCD (which would clip at least a split second into their GCD, since their cast times are either equal or longer than their GCD), but their procs occur faster than BRDs while having less buffer time (their cast time minus their GCD) is what I'm getting at. There's no reason it should be designed like this when MCH can do it just fine.

And lastly, I played BLM, your bolded statement right there, BLMs can't/don't need to do that because their procs appear on both the SCT and the skill bar at the same time. They do not have an instance where the buff shows on their SCT, but gets delayed on their action bars, ever. Infact it's the opposite (the action bar prompt appears before the SCT buff), but the time difference is so minuscule it might as well be at the same time. As a BRD, I can't do what you have laid out there if I have to refresh my SS buff after that HS which caused the proc, espesically if I'm going to refresh my DoTS with the crit buff.

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Originally Posted by JackFross

Or you just do

HS > HS (SS procs) > Use SS (proc not used) proc > IJ > SS proc > EA

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HS > HS (SS procs) > Use SS (proc not used) proc > IJ > EA > SS proc > bloodletter/oGCD

I think is the best option if this shit happens.

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Originally Posted by rappa

HS > HS (SS procs) > Use SS (proc not used) proc > IJ > EA > SS proc > bloodletter/oGCD

I think is the best option if this shit happens.

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As long as you don't need to use an oGCD right after the bolded part, you won't be affected all that well. But still, it's not like you want to delay your oGCDs. The class would still function better as a whole if they fixed up the procs and weaving, and maybe differentiate the two jobs a bit more.

It was really easy in the end. Bard now languishes at 57. I don't play mages because I don t like cast times. I played bard to 52 because it was FUN!! Stopped being fun so stopped playing Bard and started playing NIN. Mudra lag is still better than being a stand alone turret still doing less dps than everyone else. Shame cause bard to 50 was best fun ever.

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Originally Posted by JackFross

Basically, it's time to learn what BLMs learned back in 2.0. Don't do HS (proc!) SS - do HS (proc!) HS SS.

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:rolleyes: You don't know what you're talking about. In fact, I'm extremely happy Rice is here to respond in a respectful way because there are so many hyperbole thrown in this thread to justify their theories, but lacks any depth whatsoever. Just because another job had some metaphysical short end of the stick doesn't justify the QoL problems Bard experiences with their procs or Empyreal Arrow delay issue . Let SE fix the issues and stop making this thread into the echo chamber of stupid.

edit: this post is now even better now I can see the roe my FC switch me to for the next week. Basically: my avatar = the majority of this thread.

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

incredibly high SS in your case.

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Ah right, "incredibly high" as in, the SS you have when you're BiS.

You got me though mane

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

Additionally, as part of a job adjustment, we’re making detailed adjustment such as ninja/paladin’s TP, and other adjustments to bard and astrologian.

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Only took a 1500 post whine thread (plus countless other smallers ones) to finally make it happen :P

I wonder what changes we'll see. Fixing straighter shot animation lock? Bloodletter proc stacking? Improved movement?

I'm going to keep my expectations low.

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Originally Posted by aabe

Ah right, "incredibly high" as in, the SS you have when you're BiS.

You got me though mane

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Doesn't change the fact you still have high SS which speeds up TP consumption. I haven't paid attention to BRD stat weights, but is SS their strongest stat over crit/det or is it because their gear lineup is just bloated with SS...which if it's the case of the latter, it's more on the itemization for that tier (since high SS = high TP usage is not exclusive to BRD but any other job)

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Originally Posted by Argentt

Only took a 1500 post whine thread (plus countless other smallers ones) to finally make it happen :P

I wonder what changes we'll see. Fixing straighter shot animation lock? Bloodletter proc stacking? Improved movement?

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Fixing the procs and river of blood interaction would go a long way for BRD, though perfect world, they'd have some differentiation in gameplay from MCH (or the other way around)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Argentt

Only took a 1500 post whine thread (plus countless other smallers ones) to finally make it happen :P

I wonder what changes we'll see. Fixing straighter shot animation lock? Bloodletter proc stacking? Improved movement?

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Nerf Foe maybe?

To increase parity between the different ranged dps roles the following adjustments have been made to Bard.

- While Wanderers Minuet is active, cast time will be increased from 1.5s to 2.0s
- Rain of Death's evasion down effect has been moved to Wide Volley.
- The Warden's Paeon will no longer prevent the status effect Pacification
- In order to use the ability Sidewinder, you must be under the effect of The Wanderer's Minuet
- The potency of Empyreal Arrow has been increased to 250
- The TP cost of Iron Jaws has been increased to 80
- The recast of The Wanderer's Minuet has been increased from 15s to 30s
- The Dragoon ability Feint will also have the cast effect applied while under the effect of The Wanderer's Minuet

Oh look, they increased our DPS. Everyone get gud and learn to love Bard or GTFO.

I, for one, am looking forward to what changes might be brought to BRD. I'm looking forward to November 10!

I am shacking now. Please SE don't break my actual bard, only fix SS proc and add other utility to warden's paean.

Both bard and BLM suck now. Because they are pathetic I dropped sub a few days ago. Bard and BLM were my favorite jobs of 2.0 and now in 3.0 I have to deal with way to much server lag with Enochian (don't even try to tell its my end bc I did several trace routes during peek times). Bottom line is the devs got lazy and just through Bard and Blm together at the last min. Bard's proc issues and stupid cast times is a result of lazy design and zero motivation from the dev team. The way the devs implemented Enochian was just as stupid as giving bards WM.

Bottom line is I prefer range dps. I enjoyed BLM and Bard in 2.0 for several reasons. If I wanted to play as mage I equipped my BLM staff and started nuking everything but if I wasn't in the mood to deal with cast times I equipped my bow and shot a few arrows up a mobs @$$.

Don't hand me rubbish about trying other classes and all that garbage bc I already tried that and I'm not happy with the way this system is going. It's way to outdated and way to cookie cutter. If I wanted to play WoW I would go play WoW. WoW is dyeing out for a reason because the combat system is freaking old. The only reason FFXIV is doing ok is bc of the name. 2.0 was way better than 3.0. Just look at the new 3.0 raid.... seriously Goblins and a huge garbage can as the big threat o.O? In 2.0 we had a huge freaking primal that dang near wiped Eorzea off the map. And all we get in 3.0 is a bucket of bolts which btw is a snooze fest... where's the eye popping excitement and adventure?

They did more than break bard... they broke the game.:confused: