Who knew the 6.15 Omega Quests… (Spoilers)

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

Venat's worry was them becoming the plenty. But with you rlogic, why should she care? The society would just collapse later not right now. Your logic is incredibly flawed, and you dont really have much room to talk when you were trying to argue with the blatant definitionn of genocide. Try again oatmeal.

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Got a link to the Q&A? Pretty sure that wasn't her worry, its not like Meteion's report is what spurred her on to not end up like the plenty. Since you've proven what is it, five times now that your reading ability is lacking I'd rather see the text for myself. To your "question" Her world was about to be attacked. Make sure she does all she can to protect and entrust the world's future to the current generation.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

I brought up the scene in Thavnair because I believe it's directly intended as a compare and contrast. Thavnair faced the literal exact same disaster as Amaurot, but Thavnair were the ones that were able to work through it by themselves, while Amaurot fell into hysteria and desperation.

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Thavnair did not at all face the exact same disaster as Amaurot. The ancient Final Days and the modern Final Days are hugely different.

In Thavnair, if someone transformed into a Blaspheme, that's it. It's bad, it's a dangerous monstrosity, but that's it. For the Ancients, a single person having their magic hijacked could end up spawning countless Terminus Beasts. But for them this was just the tip of the iceberg. Because the Dynamis effect didn't just force them to create monsters, it drew mass cataclysms from their mind and made them reality. An endless rain of meteorites which snapped and burned their unbreakable cities like twigs, floods that scoured away all life, the works. If every person turned had spawned dozens of beasts and Khalzahl's transformation had broken the entire island in half, I doubt Thavnair would have faired very well.

Moreover, you say they were "able to work through it by themselves", but that's backwards. It was the Ancients that never had any help and were forced to devise their own solution, and even as the Final Days was literally falling on Amaurot they still had the wherewithal to perform the sacrifices and enough control of themselves that Zodiark's summoning went as planned instead of the Convocation's creation magics running wild. Meanwhile on Thavnair the Scions come in and hold things together, while the ultimate solution to the issue of the Final Days is practically handed to the planet on a silver platter through the Ragnarok, the knowledge of what was going on, the location of Meteion's nest, and even a backup evacuation plan which provided everyone with a stronger sense of security.

The only reason the Sundered were able to overcome the second Final Days was, bluntly, because someone else took the hit before they did. This meant they could draw on the information gathered from the first round and make better preparations, brace themselves for what was coming, and make further steps in understanding the source of the attack. (Well, okay - putting aside that the answer was handed to us with the help and protection of the Ancients - and even then, beyond that information, we continued to require direct aid from the Ancients, and the victory still came down to an insane, utterly unpredictable stroke of luck in the form of Zenos.)

From the recent quests, I thought this was a wonderful line:

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Originally Posted by The Watcher

What you accomplished was no divine miracle. It was but the beacon of hope, passed down from one generation to the next; a succession of wishes and prayers reshaping the star into the world we knew you deserved.

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Our outcome compared to the Ancients is not a basis for us to feel we are superior to them. It is a basis for us to feel gratitude toward them.

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Originally Posted by Kranel_San

When Meteion claimed the universe to be dead, my first thought was: "So from where did Ultima the high-seraph come from?"
I wish they'd expand on this side. Wouldn't do to have an alien descending from another world only to know two expansions later that the universe is dead.

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Wasn't Ultima a extra-dimensional being? Perhaps from another universe, from the Rift, or whatever other reason. For all we know, Meteion may not have found every single civilizations out there. Hard to believe that the first shot to a galactic bird-probe would have a 100% success.
In any case, in the long time of the universe, dead civilizations would obviously be more common than living ones. We can literally do the same on our planet: how many mass extinction event did Earth go through? And yet life still finds a way, despite being doomed to disappear again and again. Meteion is just flawed in that she doesn't understand the interest of living even if it ends eventually and thus amount to almost nothing.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

Venat's worry was them becoming the plenty. But with you rlogic, why should she care? The society would just collapse later not right now. Your logic is incredibly flawed, and you dont really have much room to talk when you were trying to argue with the blatant definitionn of genocide. Try again oatmeal.

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Venat has only incomplete informations about Meteion report, and hasn't seen the Dead End so she wants to prevent the Ancients to go on their way and die of their perfection, not the Plenty specifically, I think.

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Originally Posted by thegreatonemal

You do realize that they wouldn't have made it to any of the bad ends of that dungeon had the sundering not happened. Because of Metion killing everyone in the universe before they could even make it to those points. Besides neither of those other two ends are on the path the sundered are on now. There seems to be no mass disease that is gonna pop up to be the cause of the first area. The war with the empire is over, which is the parallel with the second area. Why do you think the goal was to stop any possible downfall in the far flung future and not: Stop being trying to murder us all at this very moment. Could the sundered society collapse at one point sometime later? Sure, everything ends those people who are alive them will have to deal with it. That wasn't Venat's goal. Metion was trying to kill everyone and the greater part of her people were making a choice that wouldn't allow them to fight back.

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Meteion has been using Dynamis to quicken the heat death of the universe for 13,000 years already. So no, we have no idea if any civilizations killed itself in between, or how long it would have taken to reach a critical point.
Although it's kinda fun you mention we're not going to reach any endings: we have literally black rose existing, able to wipe everything. Multiple Garlean legions unaccounted for who may or may not try to rebuild their empire and have untapped technology (as seen with the Weapons).
Eorzea has been in some kind of conflict for countless ages and only recently has been at peace, but Eorzean history would tend to prove it's only short-lived: tensions with the beasttribes would arise over territory, or even betwene city states (see: Ala Mhigo and Gridania). Not even mentioning Meracydia is a big unknown, so is the New World, and we even know there's going to be a conflict of some sort with Golbez, potentially threatening the Source.
Ceruleum is still very much in use, and if its use begins to spread, might very well affect the environment.

Nobody is saying "Etheirys will end in 200 years just like these civilzations". We're saying "Just because Venat took drastic measures to avoid one possible end, doesn't mean others aren't possible when calamities showed we could amost do it 7 times already". Yes, Ascians were involved, but mostly to make sure they happen exactly as they should. Evil is part of man, and summoning bahamut or making a pact with voidsent for power (see lady Amandine, on a grander scale, leading to a covent with the Cloud of Darkness) is still on the table for whoever feels like being a pain.

I still find hard to believe that in the 13,000 years it took for us to reach a point where we could do something about Meteion, the Ancients couldn't have found something if they knew what the cause was, especially without needing to rebuild civilization 8 times over. Zodiark was an efficient shield against something they didn't understand, albeit at a great cost. What could have been done if they knew it was coming from a certain point in space? Localized shielding in synchronized orbit? Actually researching Dynamis and ways to affect it? Entelechy research to create their own counter to Meteion? Actually trying to talk to that bird? Finding living civilizations (we did receive a message from space recently!) to prove to Meteion all is not so gloomy?

Venat literally went straight to "We've tried nothing and we're out of ideas". Just sticking to a timeline she knows ends in the Final Days starting again, the world being on the brink of oblivion, and trusting herself to have found a solution 13,000 years later despite finding logical flaws in how she acted (Why create the moon? Why sunder everybody?).

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Originally Posted by thegreatonemal

Got a link to the Q&A?

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https://youtu.be/WRpdIL7_NII?t=16045

If the link doesn't automatically take you to the time stamp it's @ 4:27:25 - Was sundering the star the only way to save it?

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Originally Posted by Alenore

Wasn't Ultima a extra-dimensional being? Perhaps from another universe, from the Rift, or whatever other reason. For all we know, Meteion may not have found every single civilizations out there. Hard to believe that the first shot to a galactic bird-probe would have a 100% success.
In any case, in the long time of the universe, dead civilizations would obviously be more common than living ones. We can literally do the same on our planet: how many mass extinction event did Earth go through? And yet life still finds a way, despite being doomed to disappear again and again. Meteion is just flawed in that she doesn't understand the interest of living even if it ends eventually and thus amount to almost nothing.

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Just to clarify, I'm not saying Meteion statement is true. I just wonder if someone in-universe who heard about both Meteion and Ultima the high-seraph would question what's beyond. If the devs aim to have the final boss of season 2 stronger than the Endsinger then there's nothing but to go beyond, and I'm curious how are they going to handle it in any direction other than emotional.

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Originally Posted by thegreatonemal

Got a link to the Q&A? Pretty sure that wasn't her worry, its not like Meteion's report is what spurred her on to not end up like the plenty. Since you've proven what is it, five times now that your reading ability is lacking I'd rather see the text for myself. To your "question" Her world was about to be attacked. Make sure she does all she can to protect and entrust the world's future to the current generation.

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And how many times has your reading ability been shown lacking? Hopefully you can understand the video at the very least, theres options to slow it down to 0.25x if you need the extra help which, lets be real, you do. Still havent changed Gridinia to Gridania sweetpea.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

And how many times has your reading ability been shown lacking? Hopefully you can understand the video at the very least, theres options to slow it down to 0.25x if you need the extra help which, lets be real, you do. Still havent changed Gridinia to Gridania sweetpea.

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I fail to see how being insulting is helping any discussion. If you think they're arguing in bad faith, block or ignore them.

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Originally Posted by Alenore

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I'm not saying she's trying to save us from dying ever. I'm saying she did what she needed to do to give us a chance to not die today in a sense. With the information she had and her own people's choice to not do anything about the core of the issue(they were far too concerned with getting back to how they were before the Final Days) she took action and sundered the world to give us a chance at living. She herself wasn't even sure it would work which is why 6000 years into her waiting she has the moon which was only supposed to keep Zodiark confined, into a ship capable of traveling to other stars(Given Meteion's actual goal this wouldn't save anyone but she didn't know that at the time) Sundering the world did two things, the first being defeat Zodiark the second to reduce the aether we had so we can interact with Dyamis because that's needed if you are gonna put up any kind of fight.

The choices she made were logical, in the end it was a gamble. We're alive and Meteion isn't so it worked.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

And how many times has your reading ability been shown lacking? Hopefully you can understand the video at the very least, theres options to slow it down to 0.25x if you need the extra help which, lets be real, you do. Still havent changed Gridinia to Gridania sweetpea.

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Considering you misheard what was said. I suppose we need to get you a hearing aid, an adult to sit by you and explain maybe.