Final Fantasy XIV and a Culture of Enabling

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

These same mentors encouraging bad play. I may have a tolerance, but you know what I don't do? Encourage bad play like so much of this playerbase - which is the focal point of this thread.

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Considering most people are silent throughout a run, or talk about anything other than the fight, I'd say so much of the player base tolerates, rather than encourages, any form of play, as long as it doesn't interfere with clearing the content. And even when there is a wipe, I would say most people would be willing to try again as long as there is progress being made. There are plenty of people who would help when the need arises, and I've never seen people encourage anyone to not put on job stone or not AoE or not use tank stance.

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Originally Posted by linayar

Considering most people are silent throughout a run..

nd even when there is a wipe, I would say most people would be willing to try again as long as there is progress being made.

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I don't really think so, honestly. I see players chatting more often than not in most duties I've done... If we are doing like.. LoTA that's where I've actually seen the most "toxic" chat weirdly enough, well outside of like frontlines, or Bozja. I'm usually the one being called out in most duties for staying silent, as in actually being called out by name. :p No, I see people leave instances with actual new players all the time, actually quite often in dungeons.

You know what the funny thing is? A lot of the players with the biggest attitudes are the players choosing to play really badly, it's a very odd phenomenon.

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Originally Posted by linayar

and I've never seen people encourage anyone to not put on job stone or not AoE or not use tank stance.

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Unfortunately, I have seen this. More often than not really. Healer DPS should be added here as well. Generally, I have seen, if there is a player trying to urge another to use aoe skills, or (especially) healer DPS they receive a lot of backlash. I've even seen them be kicked, for being "toxic" or whatever. A kick vote at the very least.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I see people leave instances with actual new players all the time, actually quite often in dungeons.

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I don't run dungeons as often as other contents, but that seems to be too much. I don't know how you are getting matched with people who leave dungeons that often.

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Originally Posted by linayar

I don't run dungeons as often as other contents, but that seems to be too much. I don't know how you are getting matched with people who leave dungeons that often.

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Tell me about it! :eek: It doesn't really matter if a DPS leaves, but when healers decide to leave it's the worst. Granted, occasionally it is my fault when a player leaves. I usually pull very large. I'll give my party two wipes before I pull small, if the healer and DPS cannot handle it. :cool: I'm sure they think it's my fault we are wiping, but I've done those same pulls dozens of times. It's not me..

I should highlight this post, because it's exactly what I do!

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Originally Posted by Vinupra-Rosa

This whole thread does remind me though. I don't coddle: I put any sprouts I am helping through trials of fire, pushing them on pulls that would normally be reserved for veterans. The reason? I want them to commit errors and learn while in the presence of a friendly party who is willing to help so that they won't be making these same errors in the company of the elitists such as those who have aired their laundry in this thread, who may see no issue in kicking/attacking/insulting them and otherwise discourage them from playing further simply because 'bah, this person is being a leech! screw them!'

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Originally Posted by Jijifli

The entire time through this dungeon, they were told that it was okay they came in arr gear to a sb instance, because it's just a 4 man and not savage. Any attempt I made to explain the importance of keeping gear update to content was basically pushed aside, as I was just an elitist mentor. Because others gear wasn't very good either, on top of that, I managed to watch an LB2 by me (as a reminder, LB's damage is party average Ilvl) do an amazing 3% of the boss's health. I'm still pretty sure right now I could have done more dps not limit breaking.

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As long as they met the ilvl requirement of the dungeon, does it matter which expansion's gear they had to enter the dungeon? Especially when the top level or tome gear at the end of each expansion (50/60/70) is generally equal and usable ilvl wise halfway into the next expansion, when compared to dungeon drop ilvls (54-55/64-65/74-75)?


If you are talking about end level gear of one expansion (ARR) being used 2 expansions later (Stormblood), yes that does seem kinda weird and off. How did they level up and go that long without upgrades? Then again, as long as they met the ilvl requirements set by SE, what's a player to do? They can't enter SB in full ARR gear, the ilvls don't go that high. They only had some pieces of ARR, and the more ARR they had, the more much higher SB ilvl gear they must have had to get into the dungeon. So as long as SE requires only the total average, and not each slot's ilvl, and the player still meets the minimum to enter the dungeon, isn't that more of SE's problem than an individual player?


While yes gear is important to keep up with as long as they somehow met the minimum ilvl to even enter it what is there for anyone to do? Sure some gear is more important than others, as in it is more important to have a proper weapon and ARR bracelet, than ARR weapon and proper bracelet. As someone that lives in dungeons, and basically levels up via dungeons and job quests, and how gear just falls from the sky with at least one guaranteed drop for your job per run, it does boggle my mind how someone can level 10 or more levels, go through an entire expansion, and still use the same piece of gear. Was it all FATEs? Deep Dungeons? Tales of Adventure? Not including low level dungeons with the correct exp buffs, where, for example, you can gain 4-5 levels in a single Sastasha run.

did you even read the post? they mentioned that there was no ilvl requirement for that duty back then, quite l i t e r a l l y in the sentence before the one you quoted....

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Originally Posted by LaughingBanana

Nah, most likely it's just because most sane people would not lose their mind over something as trivial as playing DF content in 15 minutes instead of 12.

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doubt anyone is losing their mind over this, but rather people don't understand why people like you bend over backwards for people playing badly on PURPOSE/unwilling to put in a modicum of 'effort' to at least understand their kit and conjure up excuses for them, like, why?

Yes I did. But then they also kept talking like there are other cases like this that keeps happening. And about going into a dungeon that expects 240+ gear but someone in only 120. And other comments about running content in upgraded gear. In which I stand by my remarks, that today, as long as SE only requires the total average of gear, instead of minimum per slot, what is someone to do when someone does have a few pieces of old gear, but still makes ilvl average requirement?

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I'll give my party two wipes before I pull small, if the healer and DPS cannot handle it. :cool: I'm sure they think it's my fault we are wiping, but I've done those same pulls dozens of times. It's not me..

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I would say it is you in some part. But then, I am someone who is firm in the belief that a tank should find an equilibrium of pulling that both the tank and healer are satisfied with. Read: Communicate and get clear what your healer can handle, it's called teamwork.

Otherwise..

https://twitter.com/Merryweatherey/s...73816344530945

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Originally Posted by Mykll

Yes I did. But then they also kept talking like there are other cases like this that keeps happening. And about going into a dungeon that expects 240+ gear but someone in only 120. And other comments about running content in upgraded gear. In which I stand by my remarks, that today, as long as SE only requires the total average of gear, instead of minimum per slot, what is someone to do when someone does have a few pieces of old gear, but still makes ilvl average requirement?

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For the record.. you can swap gear once you're in. People ilvl cheese roulettes all the time. Though admittedly I don't know if you can swap to gear below the minimum required ilvl for something. But it would be easy for someone with malicious intent to do such.. I say again someone with malicious intent, not first timers or just normal folks playing poorly.

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Originally Posted by Lanadra

I would say it is you in some part. But then, I am someone who is firm in the belief that a tank should find an equilibrium of pulling that both the tank and healer are satisfied with. Read: Communicate and get clear what your healer can handle, it's called teamwork.

Otherwise..

https://twitter.com/Merryweatherey/s...73816344530945

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:mad: A healer choosing to not heal a tank is a reportable, and bannable offense actually. I even remember someone in the TfDF thread saying they got banned for it!

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

:mad: A healer choosing to not heal a tank is a reportable, and bannable offense actually. I even remember someone in the TfDF thread saying they got banned for it!

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The comic link was meant as a light hearted joke. The point was and is that you should ideally communicate and work with a healer to ensure the tanking part of the dungeon goes smoothly.. as opposed to pulling too much, overtaxing the healer, seeing half your party dead and going: ''*shrug* I did my job, it wasn't me.'' Because quite clearly.. if half the party is dead.. something went wrong and you're most certainly not automatically exempt just because your experience is that it normally goes well.