Blue mage is a waste of potential, change my mind.

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Originally Posted by Volsungr

yeah, given how XIV completely have a whole different fighting style gameplay for pvp anyway, pretty sure blue mage if anything probably easier to be done on PVP first before anything else. sure it might feels like they're cutting the essence of blue mage with limiting the amount of abilities it can brings to pvp (if they decided to do that) but the varieties of skills that blu had, they certainly can make a balanced job out of blue mage for pvp.

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having completely different fighting style.. i don't think so, they just make it that you dont think too much about rotation and can focus more on how the flow of the pvp going (taking control of the flags/planning attacks). you still have combos and stuff related to your jobs, and at most they just add some pvp action but that's it. however i agree about how blue mage can easily be intregated in the pvp scene, like a caster with gap closer as its unique trait (j-kick) or kamikaze with final sting. it might sounds cheesy but you need to know when you can use it and when you can't. maybe set the timer to a high amount etc.

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Originally Posted by Mariel_Crystallie

having completely different fighting style.. i don't think so, they just make it that you dont think too much about rotation and can focus more on how the flow of the pvp going (taking control of the flags/planning attacks). you still have combos and stuff related to your jobs, and at most they just add some pvp action but that's it. however i agree about how blue mage can easily be intregated in the pvp scene, like a caster with gap closer as its unique trait (j-kick) or kamikaze with final sting. it might sounds cheesy but you need to know when you can use it and when you can't. maybe set the timer to a high amount etc.

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i mean, seeing how much the complexity of each class got toned down by a notch in pvp, it's really hard to see blue mage in it without a lot of tweaking and fine tuning. but it's possible given how much skills are on the blue mage's arsenal even right now at level 60. the idea of having specialties is nice, i mean we already have that with the other roles and classes, but kamikaze attack is a bit counterintuitive with the objective of pvp where you need a lot of people to be able to hold your flag/capture enemy. beside if you targeted a tank, if they died the skill is op if they don't the skill is a waste. i'd say minus the final sting/self destruct/insta death/hp% cut stuffs, the rest are alright.

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Originally Posted by Volsungr

i mean, seeing how much the complexity of each class got toned down by a notch in pvp, it's really hard to see blue mage in it without a lot of tweaking and fine tuning. but it's possible given how much skills are on the blue mage's arsenal even right now at level 60. the idea of having specialties is nice, i mean we already have that with the other roles and classes, but kamikaze attack is a bit counterintuitive with the objective of pvp where you need a lot of people to be able to hold your flag/capture enemy. beside if you targeted a tank, if they died the skill is op if they don't the skill is a waste. i'd say minus the final sting/self destruct/insta death/hp% cut stuffs, the rest are alright.

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well some of those can be count as blue mage specialties, so it's really hard to have bluemage there if we to exclude it from the skillset. maybe we need to wait for the job gauge and then bind those special skills to the gauge. perhaps it can be tuned so that final sting no longer kills you but it spend all of your gauge, and self destruct can be the aoe version of it. again, give it like 120s cd or something in scale of how slow the gauge fills.

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Originally Posted by Mariel_Crystallie

well some of those can be count as blue mage specialties, so it's really hard to have bluemage there if we to exclude it from the skillset. maybe we need to wait for the job gauge and then bind those special skills to the gauge. perhaps it can be tuned so that final sting no longer kills you but it spend all of your gauge, and self destruct can be the aoe version of it. again, give it like 120s cd or something in scale of how slow the gauge fills.

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all in all, it doesn't change that they still need to change the number whichever skills they are planning to bring in when blue mage gets implemented to real job. it's just a matter of how much should they change? i'll stand by my opinion that insta kills/hp% reduction is a no no. as for mobility, rdm has some gap closer/gap maker so it's still make sense blu will have some.

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Originally Posted by Volsungr

as for mobility, rdm has some gap closer/gap maker so it's still make sense blu will have some.

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If they plan to keep melee ranged spells, I can see something like this.

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Originally Posted by MaraD_

If they plan to keep melee ranged spells, I can see something like this.

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if it's possible i want them to have option(or maybe just change it completely) to use Scimitar as weapon though, they can be reverse RDM where they mainly fight in close range, and is also combo based, this is completely unique as right now we don't have melee caster nor combo based caster in the game.

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Originally Posted by Volsungr

all in all, it doesn't change that they still need to change the number whichever skills they are planning to bring in when blue mage gets implemented to real job. it's just a matter of how much should they change? i'll stand by my opinion that insta kills/hp% reduction is a no no. as for mobility, rdm has some gap closer/gap maker so it's still make sense blu will have some.

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Theres nothing inherently wrong with the idea of instant kill/ percentage kills in a multiplayer setting they just need to adhere to certain balance aspects. They already only work on some adds and dungeon bosses, so they wouldnt be too overpowered overall, but their main balance point is they are spammable, give them a cooldown or a rescource cost and theyre suddenly a lot less effective, especially if their success rates scale with enemy health.

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Originally Posted by ReiMakoto

Theres nothing inherently wrong with the idea of instant kill/ percentage kills in a multiplayer setting they just need to adhere to certain balance aspects. They already only work on some adds and dungeon bosses, so they wouldnt be too overpowered overall, but their main balance point is they are spammable, give them a cooldown or a rescource cost and theyre suddenly a lot less effective, especially if their success rates scale with enemy health.

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i think they meant in a normal job situation, of course instakill/percentage skills are a no no, to be fair instakill was already a bit of a problem with FATE farming, but then again as they are now i don't think they can do anything about it

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Originally Posted by JiSH

i think they meant in a normal job situation, of course instakill/percentage skills are a no no, to be fair instakill was already a bit of a problem with FATE farming, but then again as they are now i don't think they can do anything about it

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No, Im arguing that in a normal job situation instant kills can be balanced.

As a breakdown, current doom only works on trash, adds, ARR fates (doesnt work on HW fate bosses) and some dungeon bosses. Looking at adds and raid bosscategories as they are the most important to balance:

Adds: Adds which instant death works on are adds which being generous are only alive for 30s. Now there is a few ways that this can be balanced working in tandem, cost and success rate. Giving these spells a cost in the form of a rescource meter or a cooldown will severly curb their "OP"-ness as not being spammable means if they miss on their cast then its essentially wasted time and you've actively detrimented yourself and your team by casting it. Following this is success rate, currently the success rate of doom and tailscrew are around 10%, meaning it would take about 25s of the add being alive on average for either of these to land, on an add that only lasts 30s if bursted down, the outliers here are missile and level 5 death which have much higher success rates. How do you make skills like this more reasonable? Scaling hit chance, which is already implemented in the eureka/bozja version of these spells, where their success rate scales with how much health the enemy has remaining. Making these skills work like this even robust enough that its not considered OP when used in a fighting game like smash its not considered cheap/unbalanced, because most of the time you had taken enough damage already that dying like that seems fair, and the times it works when the enemies health is higher are such ouliers that it would be fun if it happened, but not something you can rely on. Dungeon bosses by extension would be mostly fine under this system, as its usually only 1 boss per dungeon (if that) that can be doomed, and if the boss had to be low anyway for your spell to work, you're only going to shave a few mins tops off your run on average.

I wrote about something similar to this in this thread: https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...job-writeup%29