Dark Knight Megathread

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Originally Posted by FelixFujiwara

Gotta admit though.

As disappointed as i am, people are slightly overreacting, atleast the non-tank players.

Yes, the invuln is still trash.

Yes, dark knight still isnt braindead for healers like all the other tanks.

Yes, DRK might have weaknesses in dungeons.

But I know for a fact, that if Healers know how to play their class properly, and the Tank is mitigating right, you literally wont have that much issues.
Everytime i read stuff like "DRK needs self-heal" or "DRK should have a different skill like TankXYZ has" i really dont feel so good anymore, to say the least.

Ever heard of class-diversity? DRK is in the worst state is have ever been in, but if it was really really really bad, they would probably know and I much rather play an underrated class, than a class that is no longer itself.

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There is no class diversity all the current mechs for DRK are bolted onto them from other classes. For example delium = inner release, living shadow = machinist mech. There is currently no individual identity about them.

If nothing else, the change to Quietus makes the job a lot less hectic at 80 during its burst window than it was in ShB.

Dark Knight single-handedly is just not worth noticing at this point. I think it's ubiquitous given we expected the outcome of this situation beforehand.

I played Reaper. Don't like it. Of course it's a cool job but it doesn't fix that itch for a greatsword. Reaper is essentially your abridged version of a DEX build in Dark Souls. It's fast, takes a bit of a brain to play, but doesn't sell me on replacing DRK.

Job is dead to me. Same with the excitement of all of these expansions. I think it was about time this game hit its legacy and reached its conclusion.

The only thing they can do to surprise us is screw over jobs in favour of adding new shiny stuff which will be replaced yet again. It's a mundane cycle and I can safely say what a ride it was. A semi-decent MMO, with some frustrations along the way. Overall, a good experience.

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Originally Posted by Deathshiro

Just bumping the thread again to throw in the 2 cents that I've been repeating in here for some time. Add healing to Blood abilities and to delirium. Also give Carve n Spit some healing potency akin to Abyssal Drain and add charges to Blood weapon so I can actually hit 5 gcds during aoe or single target without melding a stupid amount of Skill Speed on A TANK.

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For what it's worth, I really liked your suggestion to put 400 heal potency on Bloodspiller/Quietus during Delirium stacks and wish that was at least implemented for On Demand HP Sustain.

It can be used for both Single Target & AOE during stack duration and still easily get the 400 x 3 = 1200 Potency HP Restore benefits. Would give more depth to Delirium besides "discounted Inner Release", hell for PLD Holy Spirit/Circle gets Heal Potency regardless of Requiescat stacks already. That would settle the HP Sustain issues, done deal.

I'm generally fine with how DRK plays, HP Sustain and to a lesser extent, MP Sustain, Blood Weapon and Living Dead are my main issues.

Agree with most of what I've seen here but 133 pages is a lot to sift through, so some of my personal ideas may wind up being similar to others.
1) Dark Arts needs to be used a bit different. Right now it's just an additional ogcd that's specifically given for smart use of TBN, but I think it should allow enhanced abilities like it used to (some have higher potencies, some have DOT, some have bonus healing, etc.). I also want there to be multiple stacks (3 would probably be best for comparison with other classes) so you don't need to waste your Dark Arts if you're using TBN and breaking it whenever possible.

2) Some moves need to consume Darkside time. Currently it's just a 10% damage buff that's on 24/7 because your entire kit revolves around ogcds that give more darkside time. Since the level 90 skill Shadowbringer already requires Darkside in order to be used, I suggest that instead of a cooldown it instead consumes 30 seconds of Darkside time. This adds an element of counterplay between adding and removing Darkside time. Use it too much and you may find yourself down 10% damage because you burned through your MP as well. It's not huge, but I think it would make the class a bit more interactive.

3) Delirium and Living Dead need some serious changes, though I admit I'm not 100% sure exactly what they need. Delirium is Dollar Store Inner Release, and Living Dead is frustrating because it practically requires a WHM to be used to its full effectiveness. I want Delirium to be that type of skill that shifts your entire focus during its window, so I considered having it max out your 3 Dark Arts stacks and provide 50 blood gauge rather than 3 free uses of Bloodspiller/Quietus. With the enhanced skills I suggested, you still get value out of it but it's a bit less braindead.

Those are the three main things I can accurately describe in words. I'd like for there to be more variety on what you do with MP (maybe a skill that consumes 3000 MP to lower your cooldowns by 15s or something) so the class actually feels different to play than just a warrior with some flashy ogcds. I enjoy the class as it is, but the class identity just isn't there anymore compared to the other tanks.

This is an idea I posted in another thread.

After using Oblation for a bit it felt quite nice to use mostly due to the animation but the effect really is hard to notice. So I want to make it on par with the other tanks without directly buffing in a sense.

- Oblation: Reduce damage taken by 10% for 10s. 60s recharge up to 2 charges.
Addition effect: Consumes TBN if it is active, granting the same effect as breaking it. When TBN is consumed, reduce damage taken by 20% instead for 10s and grants Dark Dance.
Dark Dance effect: Parry all incoming damage (including magic damage) for 6s.

- Changes to TBN and other mana spender have their mp cost reduced to 2000. Potency are adjusted accordingly.
TBN's shield is now 20% and last 8s. When the shield breaks or fades grants a heal over time.

With this change, Oblation can be just as strong as Holy Sheltron while lasting slightly longer and you get a choice on how to use it. Activate Oblation first than TBN for the shield and small mitigation. Activate TBN first than Oblation for a on demand dark arts and mitigation. Or even tank a hit with TBN before using Oblation for the most benefit of both ability. If TBN isn't gonna break than use Oblation to still get the dark arts proc and heal over time. And with Oblation's cd you still have to be mindful when you use TBN.

And now that we can be much more flexable with TBN and dark arts proc, maybe we can experiment more with our gameplay.

- Shadowbringers: No longer stacks up to 2 and on a 60s cd. Cost 3000 mp or dark arts.
Additional Effect: When used during Living shadow, allow for a second use while living shadow is active. (The ability's cd starts with the first use.)
- Living Shadow: Grants dark arts on use.

With this change using TBN at least once per minute will be a dps gain without the worry of TBN not popping as you should always have at least one charge of oblation thanks to its short recharge. This way our attack and defense are still intertwined without feeling like TBN is holding our dps hostage every time we use it.

I don't see why everyone is overthinking Dark Knight Fixes its very simple.

1.) Remove the Mana Cost from TBN and make it take 20 seconds off each Dark Side for each use. This would make Dark Side actually a resource that you have to monitor/be aware of or you lose DPS/Shields and it doesnt directly interfere with your Offensive Resource

2.) Make Unleash Combo abilities actual Weapon Skills and not spells so they are affected by Skill Speed, as they are currently hard locked at 2.5 speed

3.)Make Blood Gauge Abilities Heal you on use via leech in similar fashion to Paladin Magic Combo.

4.) Make Blood Gauge Abilities reduce the cooldown of Shadowbringer so you can actually use 2 in the same burst window outside your initial opener.

5.) Make Oblation provide a lifesteal effect similar to bloodbath for the duration.

And just like that. Dark Knight is completely fixed

Job just needs a real rework at this point

How's everyone opening with Dark Knight so far? Given that the Balance hasn't updated their DRK guide, I thought I'd share my opener

My opener so far is Pull + TBN + Blood Weapon > Hard Slash > Delirium + Edge of Shadow > Syphon Strike > Souleater + Salted Earth + Living Shadow > Hard Slash + Dark Arts EoS > Bloodspiller + Carve and Spit + Shadowbringer > Bloodspiller + Salt and Darkness + EoS > Bloodspiller + Shadowbringer + EoS > Syphon Strike (+EoS, or save remaining MP for later like a tankbuster, you got around 3k MP at this point) > Souleater

I've got about 7.6k/8k on the opener so far as my highest at ilevel 560. Don't have the Trial extreme weapon yet, but I feel like I could push that to 8.4k soon.

I cant comment for dps isutowaru, but i seen two drk's going into the first dungeon and getting utterly demolished. The other tanks could still wall to wall pull as well as they could considering it has far too many gates. But my brother couldn't W2W as a drk very much and he's no slouch and neither is his gf healer.

Its them autos man, the hypertuned mobs drop almost 4-5k autos, the jelly things 3.5k and the others 2k with occasional double autos on the soldiers.
Drk's lack of reliable sustain is a huge weakness in that dungeon. Nevermind that living dead is unusable when your healer is a sch and the AF is all gone

The other tanks I seen in it, including my own experience can still do W2W providing they don't have a whm who can burn out of mp since they crippled it again
Weirdly it also feels brutal shell is a bit stronger. Maybe its the lower hp bar.

Having levelled DRK to 90 and cleared MSQ with it, I can basically sum my experience as such: EW DRK is just ShB DRK, but slightly worse to play. This, in turn, means that it's probably the worst tank at the moment bar none, especially since all the other tanks have received some drastic boosts to their core defensives. Yes, you can probably get a lot of mileage out of spamming TBN when you have the MP for it, but it's pretty obvious that Shadowbringer is just the potency SE took out of other combos and put into a separate button. Oblation is nice, but not very exciting. Salt and Darkness...does what it does, I suppose, though I'm not sure what's the point of it, could've just slapped the potency onto Salted Earth as another trait.

Enhanced Unmend literally has no impact on gameplay. Downtime isn't high enough to throw out more than one Unmend, and I generally keep one charge of Plunge for downtime anyway.

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Originally Posted by FelixFujiwara

Ever heard of class-diversity? DRK is in the worst state is have ever been in, but if it was really really really bad, they would probably know and I much rather play an underrated class, than a class that is no longer itself.

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Dude you're not in the shadowlands, put the copium down.

It is weird, that you mention Shadowlands, when i talk about Class-diversity. What has the prime example of lacking class-diversity to do with what i said? I don't get it.

If they could combine Scourge with Edge of Shadow would be a hell of a start already. Make the dot timer lasts 10 by default and can be increased up to 20.

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Originally Posted by Ignimortis

Having levelled DRK to 90 and cleared MSQ with it, I can basically sum my experience as such: EW DRK is just ShB DRK, but slightly worse to play. This, in turn, means that it's probably the worst tank at the moment bar none, especially since all the other tanks have received some drastic boosts to their core defensives. Yes, you can probably get a lot of mileage out of spamming TBN when you have the MP for it, but it's pretty obvious that Shadowbringer is just the potency SE took out of other combos and put into a separate button. Oblation is nice, but not very exciting. Salt and Darkness...does what it does, I suppose, though I'm not sure what's the point of it, could've just slapped the potency onto Salted Earth as another trait.

Enhanced Unmend literally has no impact on gameplay. Downtime isn't high enough to throw out more than one Unmend, and I generally keep one charge of Plunge for downtime anyway.

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I feel the same way. Other than Joke MEME Reasons in Chat, it is pretty useless to me. Usually I position the DRK smartly barely needing to move to avoid AOEs or mechanics and never too far away from target(s), 2 charges of Plunge is enough 99% of the time and being oGCD is more efficient to use.

I don't use Enhanced Unmend much at all because it's too slow on GCD and only affects 1 target, when there's a Mob pack or a single target I 100% close the distance with Sprint off CD, Plunge and AOE Combo to get initial Aggro, at the same time I use Flood of Shadows to get multiple straggler aggro because it's much faster oGCD, has some range to it and also establishes or refreshes the 10% Darkside damage buff. Economy of Motion and all that in seconds.

Enhanced Unmend gives me Virgin vs Chad Meme vibes, like the Virgin uses Enhanced Unmend like a wimp all far away because he's too scared to close distance and get to melee range of big mean pack of enemies while the badass Chad Plunges and closes gap immediately and fights the enemy like the alpha hero that he/she is.

Enhanced Unmend should be deleted from the game and replaced with something more practical and to the point, maybe straight up give a 3rd charge to Plunge, give some versatile HP sustain that is relevant against Single Target or Multiple Target. Make Oblation give some Heal over time, maybe bump up the mitigation to 15% instead of 10%, something less useless than the current fluff.

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Originally Posted by Mekhana

If they could combine Scourge with Edge of Shadow would be a hell of a start already. Make the dot timer lasts 10 by default and can be increased up to 20.

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Don't give them any good ideas. It would incentivize them to do something about DRK's state and people would actually have fun, god forbid.

My prediction for next "balance patch" if any:

After reviewing all the feedback regarding the state of Dark Knight in Endwalker we have decided to

1. Make Flood of Shadow and Shadowbringers share a CD to further reduce button bloat, i.e. using Flood of Shadows increases CD of Shadowbringers by 30s (unusable for 30s), using Shadowbringers puts Flood of Shadow on CD for 30s.

2. To encourage players to further take advantage of Enhanced Unmend Trait and to satisfy the Ego of the DRK Dev Team, players Must Use Unmend to Enable use of Plunge, Plunge will be disabled until Unmend is used first at the start of the fight to enable it for 60s duration. After combat is over, Plunge will be Disabled until Unmend is used again to enable it.

3. To better show players to appreciate the hard work of the DRK Dev Team regarding Salted Earth + Salt & Darkness Tahooo TWO Combo Stroke of Genius, players who don't use Salted Earth + Salt & Darkness whenever its available will be punished with a default debuff of -10% Damage, the Debuff will go away only when Salted Earth is on CD.

4. The Blackest Night, Dark Knight's Signature Ability will be upgraded with a different animation. Duration and CD will be left the same.

Thank You for Playing, Hugs and Kisses from the DRK Dev Team

Salted Earth should have had Oblation's 10% reduction built-in to the zone instead of requiring a new button. Then you could build some sort of interesting functionality on top of it with Salt and Darkness.

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Originally Posted by Kiteless

Salted Earth should have had Oblation's 10% reduction built-in to the zone instead of requiring a new button. Then you could build some sort of interesting functionality on top of it with Salt and Darkness.

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If DRK Devs intend to keep Salted Earth/Salt & Darkness in game for whatever reasons I hope they would merge that ability to a pre-existing AOE like Abyssal Drain or something and untie the CD from Carve & Split.

Like whenever Abyssal Drain is used it also lays down Salted Earth's AOE DOT and if you press it again it goes BOOM and does that Burst Damage. Would help save on 1 Skill Slot on Hotbars.

Oblation wasn't as bad as I thought it was, probably because the animation looks nice and it's still 10% reduced damage taken... I just wish it did something else like maybe a Heal Over Time for some On Demand HP Sustain or a smaller Max HP Bubble if we're continuing with the Shield Tank Damage Prevention Theme like with TBN.

I.E. Oblation at level 84 or 86 gets a 10% Max HP Bubble in addition to the 10% Reduce Damage Taken, or Heal Over Time over that 10s Duration.

Idk... maybe they should combine Delirium and Blood Weapon into one. I already made a macro for it.

Kinda wished they utilized the Motif of DRK using Darkness and Blood more in their kit. The blood gauge being just a resource dump for Bloodspillar and Quietus isn't really all that interesting. Even using it just to summon Living Shadow doesn't really have much of an impact.

They could turn DRK into a Stance Tank where we have its Normal mode which is the mode we're used to playing.

A Blood Stance activated by using Blood Weapon that gives haste and causes our attacks to regeneration HP and Blood Gauge while empowering our blood gauge moves. Could give DRKs the Darkside Aura and have the Bloodweapon runes that appear on the weapon remain on the sword for the duration of the buff.

Then we have a Darkness or Shadow Stance by the activation of Darkside/Dark Arts. Could replace Delirium with Darkside/Dark Arts and turn it into a buff that gives us empowered weapon skills and allows us to generate MP. Could then add a Shadow like aura around DRK to indicate they are in this stance.

Would make it unique to the other tanks and finally give it some form of Identity.

Alright look after messing around with the other tanks, can we AT LEAST get better self-sustain options. Please if literally nothing else.

Getting gutted with the shared cd for Abyssal Drain or C&S guts our leveling/synch down kit even further. Meanwhile, I just solo healed a level 60 dungeon the other night as a PLD.

Earlier I was in the 2nd dungeon with a PLD, as a reaper, and during the boss the healer fell and died at the beginning of the 2nd phase, followed by the other DPS.
We cleared it nonetheless. The PLD had no issue staying alive while keeping me up and running (arcane crest kind of helped a bit).
A DRK definitely couldn't have done that.

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Originally Posted by Kalaam

Earlier I was in the 2nd dungeon with a PLD, as a reaper, and during the boss the healer fell and died at the beginning of the 2nd phase, followed by the other DPS.
We cleared it nonetheless. The PLD had no issue staying alive while keeping me up and running (arcane crest kind of helped a bit).
A DRK definitely couldn't have done that.

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That's not a bad thing by itself, really. Class diversity is necessary, even if it creates some weak spots in your kit. The issue is that for every weakspot, there's supposed to be payoff. My theorycrafting friends say that DRK apparently has the highest DPS among tanks at the moment (by a significant margin, so much that they can outdamage DPS classes during the opener, and keep ahead of other tanks during the downtime), but that's about it.

Oh yeah, that in some situations a specific tank shines brighter isn't an issue.
But DPS isn't that interresting of an edge to have over other tanks. It's just number tweaking, it doesn't address the mechanical weaknesses of the DRK.
And even with that DPS, it's 0 DPS if you die and the fight ends up in a wipe anyway.

I seem to remember that prior to Shadowbringers, tank damage output was the single most important factor that players looked at, and being able to mitigate was less relevant outside of being able to generate more LB.

What would be nice, however, is if they bring out the person who designed Reaper, and just gave them the instructions to design a tank job based around the same principles. I think a lot of players would pick up a job and play it without having any specific advantages, so long as it was simply joyful to play.

I also think that with the recent more revelations on how magic works, it makes a lot of sense for DRK to work off of two resources, be it Aether (MP) and... well, let's call it 'Blood'. Burning through your supply of one should help attune you to the other. I strongly think that the devs should stop designing timer focused jobs and instead put out more genuinely resource-management focused jobs.

Honestly reaper feels like a dark knight if they gave up defense entirely (and just kept TBN)
So this wouldn't be a bad idea. Maybe

Can we talk about Dark Knight's damage at the moment? I'm really feeling happy with the damage output of Dark Knight at the moment, 4.4k averagely with nearly hitting the 10k opener barrier already, ilevel 570 right now with extreme trial weapon and accessories. Still using Job gear left side. I'm personally quite happy with Dark Knight's personal output right now but I don't know how Gunbreaker/Paladin/Warrior compare to our current version of Dark Knight.

Damage can be changed from one patch to the other, it's honestly not that good of a metric.
DRK could have only 1 2 3 combo, but all hitting for 1000+ potency it wouldn't mean the job is in a good state. That it has at least that going for it is...fine.
But honestly, damage isn't even that relevant to a job's mechanics. Especially a tank.

Damage is among the most important aspects when differentiating between tanks. If DRK has DPS as its "special niche" that outweighs the other tanks better defensive capabilities, it will be in EVERY DAMN RAID STATIC for the only content that matters in FFXIV: Savage and Ultimate.

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Originally Posted by Niyuka

Damage is among the most important aspects when differentiating between tanks. If DRK has DPS as its "special niche" that outweighs the other tanks better defensive capabilities, it will be in EVERY DAMN RAID STATIC for the only content that matters in FFXIV: Savage and Ultimate.

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And, thereafter, will lead to the accelerated burnout of many of our tanks since they're obliged to play a job they do not enjoy...

Fun comes first. I remember SMN being very strong to start with, but I just couldn't get into it.

I actually pulled a Cecil in Endwalker and went with GNB (yes it's not PLD but comes near close to me) and what can I say. At 90 it plays very smooth. You get Hypervelocity and Double Down. What did DRK get?

Bubbles and Dark Passenger 2.0. It's nothing to write home about. I feel there was potential to give us a continuation from Souleater but that didn't happen... then sharing a recast timer with Carve and Spit and Abyssal Drain.. I guess Enhanced Unmend wasn't enough?

In short the developers wanted you to play anything but DRK. That's all you need to know.

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Originally Posted by Niyuka

Damage is among the most important aspects when differentiating between tanks. If DRK has DPS as its "special niche" that outweighs the other tanks better defensive capabilities, it will be in EVERY DAMN RAID STATIC for the only content that matters in FFXIV: Savage and Ultimate.

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And will it make it fun to play ? For some maybe, but what if you don't care about big deeps ?
It also speaks to a larger issue, in that tanks are becoming more and more like a new category of DPS. Just like ranged are "support DPS", tanks are starting to become "doesn't get one shot DPS".
I know that everyone has to do DPS, obviously. But tanks only need to use CDs on tankbusters and that's it. No need to move bosses around, to split aggro of adds, and so on. That's a real shame. Of course this is part a job design issue, and an encounter design issue.

And as I said, if DRK is too prevalent in high end raid because it has too much DPS, it is going to get nerfed. DPS is an unreliable metric of functionnality. It is only numbers that can be changed. You could make Hard Slash deall 9999 potency. DRK would then have the best DPS of all the tanks, absolutely insane. Must pick for savage raid.
Doesn't mean it's fun. Well, it can be, if you like to see big numbers, yeah absolutely. But it is only a tiny fraction of what makes a job fun, and the easiest to adjust between patches.
It's easier to enjoy a job that has satisfying mechanics, but low DPS, than a job with high DPS and unsatisfying mechanics.

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Originally Posted by Niyuka

Damage is among the most important aspects when differentiating between tanks. If DRK has DPS as its "special niche" that outweighs the other tanks better defensive capabilities, it will be in EVERY DAMN RAID STATIC for the only content that matters in FFXIV: Savage and Ultimate.

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1000% wrong. :)

Repeat after me everyone! People play the job they enjoy!
DRK was a Dark Art comedy in SB yet it was in UCOB world first. The argument? "I like Dark knight"
BRD remained insanely popular in ShB despite its low damage. Why? Same reason as above. MCH dealt more damage than BRD and DNC, within world first player hands, would've been a valuable asset.
GNB was highest damage but I only raided one tier with a GNB in my party, same happened with other raider friends.

Many raiding comp were double melee when SMN/BLM were the highest DPS.

I can keep this up all day long.
XIV jobs are balanced enough so no one cares about damages. Hell, in ShB i've heard of double ranged comp.

If damage was among the most important thing to care about, why many played with a RDM or a DRK during ShB? Why BLM was the least played job despite it being top damage?
And for your information, damage are even less important in Ultimate since the DPS check is, so far, much more lenient that Savage DPS check.

The biggest problem facing DRK as a class going forward is that it's kit and niche were originally envisioned as being built around (quick thinking) resource management, where the dev team seems to be moving in a more rigid direction that directly conflicts with the variability and versatility that such a design philosophy could be built around.

Compare the HW DRK's resource management and overall flow (HW-era problems be damned) when it actually had an identity to the overall design trends of today, and it simply doesn't fit. To give the people the DRK class that they (they being those who do want a push towards that identity of resource management over whatever the current state of things is trying to be) want, you'd require quite a departure from the current trends of design for jobs in FFXIV. I'd love something more free-form and versatile in its construction, like those days of old in 3.0, but it'd require the dev team to open themselves back up to more open-ended class designs, and the increased balancing designs that come with it.

That said, if they'd not want to go down that route, then they really need to have a serious discussion amongst themselves, and maybe with the playerbase, about what they want DRK to be instead. Because right now, languishing as a muddy mess isn't doing anyone any good. You can't attempt to fulfill the class fantasy of old while constantly denying its validity on a core, fundamental level.

really hard for me to justify playing any of the tanks at the moment dont care for PLD or WAR,
while i like the aesthetic of DRK and GNB the gameplay right now isn't too fun while GNB can be solved with a simple patch, DRK i don't see any changes till second tier if any.

I'm not comfortable with DRK having good DPS because that can change very quickly with nerfs. With a crappy kit and playstyle and post dps-nerf, the job will be literally horrible.

It is true that a reactive, stance dancing DRK is likely a thing of the past. As much as this saddens me and I'll be missing proc based reactions to manage ressources.

But DRK can still be compelling to play. I still advocate for a return of Dark Art as a cornerstone mechanic, similar to Eukrasia. Rather than turning skills from "bad" to "the actual good version", change them to artificially augment the number of button. Turn Hard Slash into Scourge, Siphon Strike into a debuff strike, Soul Eater into Power Slash or vice versa. Have it consumme Dark Side meter to avoid spamming it, maybe even give it a 5 or 10 second CD.
Then, keep the Dark Art proc on a well used TBN, but remove the MP cost from it (and increase cooldown). Using TBN under Dark Art could be one instance of just making the skill stronger, but at a cost. From a 25s CD that grants a 20% shield, to a 15s CD that gives, I dunno, 40% shield that reapplies as a 20% shield when broken. That's the way a DRK could survive without a healer like a PLD would with using clemency etc.

Ah now I am starting to understand. Since DPS is apparently not what anyone wants, but FUN, and since DRK hasnt been fun since Heavensward (which I personally agree with, but the reasons for that have a lot to do with precisely what many here are advocating, comfort and ease of play), the problem with DRK 6.0 is that its too close to 5.0 and that the other tanks got COOLER new toys than DRK?
I mean, DRK got more than was removed, its doing fine with top tank DPS in current content, and outside of these forums I dont see a shortage of DRK players either. One tank HAD to be the one where people thought it got the worse new toys. One tank HAD to be the one where people wanted a fundamental rework (although thats a demand in every single class forum, and I suspect has a lot to do with the recent influx of players from you know where), but I fail to see how the gameplay of the class fundamentally changed, or even slightly changed, for the worse since 5.5. Less charges means less spammy playstyle (something TONS AND TONS of people asked for, in this very thread nonetheless), it has better numbers, and while there is one trolly trait that really does leave a bad impression, the new toys are straight up buffs AND add a little bit of gameplay consideration too.

And since there are no raids yet, we dont know whether DRK, with the best and most interesting AOE playstyle, might (for example) be the sudden king of new boss designs - they have been rebalancing AOE capabilities to a suspicious degree, after all