Shots Fired: A Machinist Guide

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Originally Posted by CarnivalNights

Is this guide still the comprehensive and best possible MCH guide?

I've seen a few other things (Reddit) that go against this.

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The guide on the front page is heavily outdated.

Any tips for add phase on a3s? MCH toolset doesn't seem to shine during that phase.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

The guide on the front page is heavily outdated.

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So what page do I have to go to find the most up to date opener/rotation?

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Originally Posted by Sigmakan

Any tips for add phase on a3s? MCH toolset doesn't seem to shine during that phase.

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Well you got stun/silence (both do work on the flans using Mucilage), 40% heavy for times when your smn/sch is slow, pretty mobile job to begin with and turrets dont take dmg from the middle pool, not to mention no combo losses from movement/Ferros.
We are just getting past that and working on last phase and so far I've no problems on the phase.

Mostly I just keep Hotshot on and use Reload+Reass.+Ricochet (savin other stuff for last phase) and focus on the furthest ones from the melees/tanks. I'm also mpbotting for until the last 2 packs when I take Rook out and well.. that's pretty much it for tips I can give.

I assume you're keeping GB up the whole time?

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Originally Posted by Sigmakan

I assume you're keeping GB up the whole time?

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i was, but now i've been testing if its better to stancedance as there's not much proper cds used.

Apologies for all the questions. Any idea if grenado shot will hit all the adds if you target the water spout? Kinda doubt it since grenado shot's AoE range seems pretty small.

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Originally Posted by Sigmakan

Any tips for add phase on a3s? MCH toolset doesn't seem to shine during that phase.

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so the waves go

2 big
3 small
1 big 2 small
4 small
3 small
4 big

with current gear and experience, most raids will typically kill all the adds that spawn in the first waves before the next wave spawn; only starting to fall behind wave spawns after the 1 big 2 small wave. at the same time, if you use your 1m cds at that point (rico, reassemble, reload) , they will be back up once the living liquid is back. so right around when the 1st ferrofluid resolves is a good time to pop your CDs and catch up on DPS.

ideally you want to do your full wildfire burst once the boss once he's back in last phase. this means most of your CDs have to be saved; the add phase lasts roughly 2 minutes, and you shouldn't have any CDs going into it (because of the prior hand of pain dps check). anyway, i usually actually play mana song til the end of the 1 big 2 small wave, then i put rook out; and then i play a bit of TP song on the 4 big wave (since at that point DPS is all caught up, and topping MP/TP off in add phase>giving MP/TP in last phase)


the best you can do is figure out where you can stun mobs and putting your heavy to use. ideally the tanks should handle the 2 big and the 1 big stun; you should only have to save stun for the 4 big wave as a fallback even (2 melee+2 tanks should get it). so everywhere else, you can/should stun mobs that aren't being hit by melee or ranged. then if your stun is on CD and you see another mob that has a low chance of being hit immediately after spawning, leg graze it. if you know a mob will live at least 9 seconds, put lead shot on it.

also, grenado shot will hit some of the mobs if you target the living liquid; but not all of them. uneven spacing

Alright folks, new week, new Esos. After getting weapon, Chest and Legs. What do we get next from almost full i190? I'm having trouble deciding whether to get gloves or something else this week. Any thoughts?

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Originally Posted by CarnivalNights

So what page do I have to go to find the most up to date opener/rotation?

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https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...eC_L3JAwY/edit

This is the latest update to the opener, though of course, stat weights are out of date.

so, to elaborate a bit more on stance dancing

for most cases, 1 auto+1 gcd is stronger than 1 gcd in gb, right. this is the concept of stance dancing.

now, if you actually pay attention to your autos, they aren't queue up to fire off immediately as soon as you go out of GB; rather, they actually continue on a timer still from the moment you start attacking something. why is this relevant?

because if you do a quick toggle, for example, like

clean shot>drop gauss>hot shot>auto>gauss on>lead shot

this would be a dps increase normally. but what can happen is that your auto is delayed, and comes up really late into your GCD; making you either clip your GCD to wait for it to come out, or not wait for it at all in favor of your GCD (logical choice) and you lose the GB modifier on a skill, without getting the auto to make up for it. in the reverse, you can be very lucky and drop GB right before an auto comes out, and get 2 autos during 1 weapon skill for a big damage boost.

so overall, on top of also micromanaging in between oGCDs and toggling for movement, you also need to have an idea of when your autos actually go off. and on this subject once again; if you look at the current 3 endgame weapons, their speeds are 2.64 (hive weapon/gordian weapon) and 2.48 (ferdinand). so, with the hive/gordian, your GCD will actually begin outpacing your autos because of the delay on it; with an average auto timing after toggling GB off, you will have a high chance of losing an auto at 4~ GCDs without gauss, at the benefit of increased damage per shot (ie more effective stance toggling). with the ferdinand, your autos will keep up with a reasonable GCD for quite some time, but damage per shot is a bit lower.

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Originally Posted by Aiurily

Stance-Dancing.

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You ideally want to be out of stance for at least 3 GCD's or so to ensure that it is a DPS gain.

On that note as well. Stance dancing is not always, and most of the time, a mobility tool. In order for it to be a DPS increase YOU need to keep facing the boss with either strafe or simply not moving. If you turn your back once you could easily have thrown away the stance dancing dps gain. Instead your backward movement should only take place with GB on with stutter stepping.

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Originally Posted by Ronivan

Thanks for this guide. However I'm quite disapointed with MCH. Its require a confuse and long rotation, one where buff is a requirement and also its RNG based. You go through all this and still gets a very meager damage. I'm still working out my job, but so far, I felt like MCH is the botton feeder of FFXIV, and I don't see no future playing this job.

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http://ashrocketship.com/wp-content/...tlikething.png

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Originally Posted by Lavieh

Stance dancing is not always, and most of the time, a mobility tool. In order for it to be a DPS increase YOU need to keep facing the boss with either strafe or simply not moving.

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On that note, I found simply having a /facetarget macro with nothing else is incredibly helpful here. Tying it to gauss is a bit much, but it does help a lot.

any feedback from the pro mch page on my opener would be appreciated

http://imgur.com/gallery/o1Hpb

or

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vek...ctjkdTltrpb1Wn

pretty much starts of with GB off and first buff being hotshot(due to lowest buff 5% but also the longest)then as you proceed to start buffing, you will notice that you AND your turret are attacking the enemy as you are buffing, so instead of wasting time standing there prebuffing, you could be buffing and double attacking same time.then ends off with pushing off too unneccessary OCD in the rotation after buffing stage, i get my buffs all the way till the second clean shot n last buff ends at last attack. (got rid of QR cuz u can jus preload 3+ and push "reload" further one gcd for the xtra 20 potency or not becaus you will still have the buffed up clean shot) and got rid of hot shot for during or after buffs, biggest waste of buffed time imo. but im no expert, jus thinking aloud. lemme kno if you guys got suggestions for more tweaking

to break this down there's 3 points to it that are different from most openers, from my pov

1. doing buffs after pull instead of pre-pull on the basis that you will get turret shots+autos during your buff period

a main concept of doing buffs prepull, is that your dps/damage only starts counting after the enemy is actually pulled. by doing hotshot->hc>bfb>rs>he>dex pot>gauss barrel, you spend 5 seconds, after the pull, purely just doing auto attacks/turret shots while buffing; maybe about 35% of your sustained DPS while you are buffing, after the pull starts; after the DPS starts being tracked.

by doing these buffs prepull, you spend those 5 seconds instead just doing your regular GCDs and regular 100% DPS; maybe at the cost of some of the buff duration going to the (fairly worthless) hotshot at the start, but i think it's a pretty big win towards prebuffing because of this. you normally do prebuff before the pull so that you can get your lead shot fully buffed after all.


2. putting reload+wildfire after lead shot and clipping GCD to frontload a GCD with buffs rather than getting that GCD at the end with no buffs, with no GCD clip

the concept is fine; but you end up losing buffed GCDs anyway because of GCD clip

3. using feint to get a last hit in during wildfire

in this situation, just drop gauss+use split shot instead. it does more damage with the auto and it costs less TP. so you'd do clean shot->drop gauss->auto+split shot and it'd be more dmg than gb feint.

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and then to compare it to other openers with purely wildfire GCDs.

wildfire>split>slug>clean>split>slug>>dex pot off>clean>all buffs off except your last buff>feint/no gb split>detonate. total=3 split shots, 2 slug shots, 2 clean shots, 7 GCDs
wildfire>slug>clean>split>slug>split>clean>all buffs off except RS>slug>rs off>no gb split>detonate. total=3 split shots, 3 slug shots, 2 clean shots. 8 GCDs.

if you want to discount the split at the end because of tight timing, then it's 2 splits, 3 slugs, 2 cleans, making the difference 1 split vs 1 slug shot.

overall the difference at that point, is

your opener - clean shot with all buffs, no dex pot, 1 split shot with full buffs, no gb split with 1 buff
normal opener - clean shot with all buffs+dex pot, 1 slug shot with only RS, no gb split with no buffs

so. fairly small difference even in the wildfire. the 8th GCD split shot at the end of the normal opener puts it over imo. if i do your opener then adjust the wildfire placement (so, hotshot->hypercharge->buff buff buff GB+dexpot->lead shot->reload->split shot->wildfire) the difference, is that a the slug shot that had RS on it, gets 1 additional buff on it. that's it.

Guys, i was practicing my opener last night and i couldn't surpass a 6k Wildfire. I know that i'm not landing much critical hits, maybe 2 or 3. Playing on PS4.
I'm trying to optimize the rotation to land the most powerful hits inside the WF window, but it's not working at all.
Here is the opener that Hax Etc shows in this guide https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNmFlIbdu2I . Dunno what's wrong, maybe my latency (over 170)?
My static is trying A1S and my dps on Faust is over 1050 (Incoming damage on Faust, does not count adds, check ACT configuration for that) and 800 on Oppressor.
Inside the raid my best WF was a 8.2k hit and 6.5k is my usual cap. The point is that i'm seeing lots of people posting opener videos parsing on dummy and landing 8k+ with no party buff and lots of crits. My overall damage is quite good but my openener does not impress me at all.

ilvl193

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Originally Posted by KilluaKhan

so instead of wasting time standing there prebuffing, you could be buffing and double attacking same time.

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It's not possible to 'waste time' pre-buffing because DPS only counts after the boss is pulled, as that is when enrage timers start being meaningful. These buffs increase your damage yes, but the GCD you spend casting them itself deals no damage, so you can actually think of it as a smart thing, to stuff all these 0 damage GCDs into the pre-pull period where the DPS loss doesn't count.

It is true that you are wasting their duration slightly because if you go, "BFB, HE, HC, RS, Pull" for example, BFB has ticked for 3 seconds without benefiting anything, HE for 2 seconds, and so on. But in your case the only difference is that they're being applied to Turret shots and autoattacks - probably only 1 of each, maybe 2 autoattacks. In my opinion it's not a good enough upside to sacrifice being able to DPS at full tilt from 0:00 of the fight.

When you use them pre-pull it's like basically getting a rolling start in a race versus someone who starts off from the block and has to accelerate.

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Originally Posted by Aiurily

i'd fix the single target 2 ammo opener, and personally i'd rule out the double GR opener entirely for most cases

buff order for single target opener is written as bfb>he>rs>hc; it should be HE+BFB>HC>RS. putting RS 3rd means you lose it for 1 GCD during wildfire; putting HC 4th does not get you any benefits over putting it 3rd

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Went ahead and update with this.

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Originally Posted by Elizabeth

Guys, i was practicing my opener last night and i couldn't surpass a 6k Wildfire. I know that i'm not landing much critical hits, maybe 2 or 3. Playing on PS4.
ilvl193

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I'm in the same boat and also on ps4. It is latency at this point. Psn already has natural latency and add Internet on top of that. I've tried 4 different rotations with the same result.

Also meant to add a way to see the latency is look at your ticks. Like wildfire, lead shot. The numbers will jump from say 7 to 6 then back to 6, then count down.
Stupid mobile phone and no edit button

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Originally Posted by NyssaElf

Also meant to add a way to see the latency is look at your ticks. Like wildfire, lead shot. The numbers will jump from say 7 to 6 then back to 6, then count down.
Stupid mobile phone and no edit button

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LOL i have the same issue! That always happen, the dot stay 7 then 6 then back to 7 then 5. . . :(

The google doc opener says to pop HE before B4B, but last time I tested I found HE gave 2-3% more damage. Is this just an oddity with my stats?

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Originally Posted by Elizabeth

Playing on PS4.

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My dps jumped up quite a bit when I switched from playstation to pc. 170 ms of latency is also going to make things very hard for you--I suspect your problem is mostly or entirely those two things.

@ Elizabeth

If you have high latency try this opener.

Use QR to start with 4 Ammo

HE》B4B》HS》Hyper+RS》LS》Split》WF 》Slug+Reload》Reasemble+Clean》GR+Rapid》Split+Rico》Slug+Head 》Clean+Blank》Split》Slug 》Clean

QR goes on there somewhere too to get a final clean but it wont be within WF.

Question, what's an average amount of damage you should typically be doing with Wildfire? Disregarding the burst type opener, but just a real fight average you should be looking at. about 3-5k? or more? I guess item level would have an impact on this but lets just say 170-190, an average count.

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Originally Posted by DragonHunterG

Question, what's an average amount of damage you should typically be doing with Wildfire? Disregarding the burst type opener, but just a real fight average you should be looking at. about 3-5k? or more? I guess item level would have an impact on this but lets just say 170-190, an average count.

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Honestly if you don't screw up your rotations/CD usage your first wildfire should hit like 7-9k, your 2nd wildfire will always be weaker so it'll normally be 3-5k, and the next one should be just as strong as the first at 7-9k.

And when I say 3k I mean very near to 4k like 3.7k+

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Originally Posted by Aiurily

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6P3aMPO4lA

advanced mch gimmicks

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Originally Posted by Aiurily

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6ejJRugvFU

2050~ burst @ i180, 7246 wildfire. this is, afaik the most optimal opener when it comes to wildfire burst. my highest hits are around 8.3k with drg at i185

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cevo2mwB81o

this opener is worse, but crit luck was better. don't use this opener. 2187 burst @ i180

2nd wildfire should look like this

filler skills>HE+BFB come up>filler skill>HE>hot shot>BFB>lead shot>1>wildfire>1/2>rapidfire>1/2/3>quick reload>insert oGCDs as needed

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This opener has been giving me the most consistent numbers in my parses in and out of raid with wildfire avg. from 7.7K-9K* (*luck crits) and bursts between 2K-2.1K. This one just seems to flow better imo and other dont seem to. I'm not sure why wouldn't really use it.

Good guide here!

Not sure OP is still perusing this post but it looks like some of the OP is incorrect in the AOE section:

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Originally Posted by Cascadi

Game Version: 3.01
Last Updated: 07/07/2015

Introduction

AoE
Case 1: Hot Shot into Grenado Shot
Let's set the GCD for Machinist to be around 2.4 seconds.
The TP use for Hot Shot isn't included as we start at 1000 TP; Grenado Shot costs 160 TP so,
TP: 80-240-560-720-880-1040-1200
60 TP per 3 seconds regen, 6 GCDs (6 * 2.4/3 = 4.8 rounded down to 4 * 60 = 240)

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Looks like you missed one grenado in the calculation. 240tp next jump would be 400tp. This will add one more grenado (total of 7) in to initial calculation. Should make quite a difference in the total output.

here's a joke video on wildfire openers. please don't take it seriously (or use it seriously)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vr2MUHBX8co

so your saying that if you frontload all buffs before pull, you will be able to get 2nd clean shot in with all buffs and the ocds?

yes. when i do he>bfb>hc>rs, i get 2 fully buffed clean shots

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Originally Posted by Myon88

It's not possible to 'waste time' pre-buffing because DPS only counts after the boss is pulled, as that is when enrage timers start being meaningful. These buffs increase your damage yes, but the GCD you spend casting them itself deals no damage, so you can actually think of it as a smart thing, to stuff all these 0 damage GCDs into the pre-pull period where the DPS loss doesn't count.

But in your case the only difference is that they're being applied to Turret shots and autoattacks - probably only 1 of each, maybe 2 autoattacks. In my opinion it's not a good enough upside to sacrifice being able to DPS at full tilt from 0:00 of the fight.

When you use them pre-pull it's like basically getting a rolling start in a race.

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A rolling start with a rng based rotation again after, think of it like this, i wasted 5secs in fight while attacking with buffed up 5 shots(hc + 2 aa each from me n turret, jus check pic) then i do the usual WF burst optimizing it so that buffs lasts for as long as possible since our first WF is crucial especially in enrage timers. Then lets skip till end of your wf - normal attacks with no buffs except hotshot for the 5secs u beat me in. Then you seee during that time im still casting buffed attacks. So long run i get longer duration of buffed attacks while optimizing wf. Because when our first wf ends, back to usual priority. Just u start urs earlier with no buff vs mine thst had first few buffed attacks. N honestly second wf r usually gnna b same as my starter anyways,attkin while bufffin so i dont se how i lose in long run at all.

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Originally Posted by Aiurily

yes. when i do he>bfb>hc>rs, i get 2 fully buffed clean shots

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Ok did some editing, didnt kno u cud fit 8gcd but did it, still needs sum tweaking which il do tomorrow. But heres new opener still same strategy with 8 gcd with rS all the way to end, but derped out during end cuz i think that was suppose to b a split not slug. But heres vid

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=y1o9YOxSNSc

sorry if this seems like a silly question, but I have a few problems that I need help with
I have started practicing my opener and I need some advice, after my opener I go spilt, slug and clean shot until reload and reassemble are available, now my problem is after I use reload/reassemble, should I just keep using split, slug and clean until reload and reassemble are ready to use???

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Originally Posted by Pressure

sorry if this seems like a silly question, but I have a few problems that I need help with
I have started practicing my opener and I need some advice, after my opener I go spilt, slug and clean shot until reload and reassemble are available, now my problem is after I use reload/reassemble, should I just keep using split, slug and clean until reload and reassemble are ready to use???

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I assume you are talking about your basic rotation. Read the following section:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...d.kwq45ertp2u1

I probably glossed over it somewhere, but could anyone tell me the rationale on the hyper charge placement? It has the longest duration so i've been putting it first.

my opener looks like: HC>B4B >Hot shot > HE>RS>Lead Shot>QR>Split>Reload >WF > Slug > Reassemble > Clean > Rico > Rapid Fire > Split > HG > Slug > GR > Split > Blank >Clean > QR >Slug || Clean

The last clean doesn't make it before WF falls off, but everything through the 3rd Slug is fully buffed

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Originally Posted by Syll

snip

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No point in casting it earlier when there's no animation lock other than to ensure that you have RS for as long as possible, and the extended duration also helps other people.

As a side note, you shouldn't put two buffs between hot shot and lead shot, pretty sure that cuts some of the GCD.

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Originally Posted by Syll

I probably glossed over it somewhere, but could anyone tell me the rationale on the hyper charge placement? It has the longest duration so i've been putting it first.

my opener looks like: HC>B4B >Hot shot > HE>RS>Lead Shot>QR>Split>Reload >WF > Slug > Reassemble > Clean > Rico > Rapid Fire > Split > HG > Slug > GR > Split > Blank >Clean > QR >Slug || Clean

The last clean doesn't make it before WF falls off, but everything through the 3rd Slug is fully buffed

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http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...14#post3290014

TLDR: No matter how late into the fight you use Hypercharge, even if wait till you get into combat to use it, you'll get 5 charged shots from the turret max. On the other hand if you use it too early before the pull, you might only get 4 charged shots.

The position it is in is the earliest you can use it while still getting all 5 charged shots from it. All this is assuming you're using the single Gauss Round opener in here:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...mQgiBeC_L3JAwY

Yours is slightly different so your mileage may vary, but the principle stands the same. You use Hot Shot so quickly after using Hypercharge, so you're probably getting all 5 charged shots no problem anyway - compared to the openers in the Google doc that pre-buff almost everything before the pull and the first Hot Shot, but that's another debate altogether.

Did gauss round always have electricity on the lunch box?

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Originally Posted by Ephier

Did gauss round always have electricity on the lunch box?

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I believe so :P I think it's what makes that weird tingly sound a second after the round hits. Which sounds like my telephone in the distance and always used to confuse me >_>

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Originally Posted by Aeliott

Which sounds like my telephone in the distance and always used to confuse me >_>

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Reassemble sounds like a really fancy camera shutter taking a picture, I can't unhear it.

The OP and the Doc say a couple things about Gauss Barrel.


Is it a DPS loss to keep it up full time (assuming you arnt losing casts by moving)?