"You pull, you tank" is a bad mentality

It does not take "2-3 GCDs" to take aggro back what are you on about, you don't even need a full single GCD you just can't give less than one, Tank enmity generation in XIV is absurd, I had a lot of situations where I had a couple hits of Reawaken after a boss, decided to spend them during the run as to not let them expire, and 3 hits of Reawaken were still not enough to take aggro from one AoE GCD of a Tank, I agree that DPS running on the opposite direction from you is frustrating, but even then, where are they running off to? dungeons are flashy hallways, they are either running towards you, or towards the wall, and if they do run towards the wall, that's the direction you are supposed to go anyway, why does it matter if you are doing it before or after the mobs?

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Originally Posted by syldon

It is one thing complaining that some tanks are slow and another giving credence that DPS should be the ones dictating the pace.

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Spoiler: The DPS get a say in the pace. If they don't know or choose not to avail themselves of their rotations, or keep dying to mechanics, pulls will take more time. If they're S-tier gods, pulls will take less time. The tank does not magically control their performance (unless the tank is being petty and intentionally not grouping the trash properly for AoEs).

I’ll never understand why people seem to offended to consider that DPS should get a say in the pacing but then turn around and act like it’s totally normal that tanks should wholly control the pace and not see the problem

Like if we are being really technical based on how the roles interact the healer should actually set the pace as they are the one who’s job actually changes based on pull size but you don’t see healers out there scoffing at the mere mention of someone else controlling the pace

i mean... wouldnt it be alright for a dps to only use single target skills? their job is to deal dmg. and single target skills deal dmg too.
would be horrible for the pacing though

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Originally Posted by VeyaAkemi

It does not take "2-3 GCDs" to take aggro back what are you on about, you don't even need a full single GCD you just can't give less than one, Tank enmity generation in XIV is absurd, I had a lot of situations where I had a couple hits of Reawaken after a boss, decided to spend them during the run as to not let them expire, and 3 hits of Reawaken were still not enough to take aggro from one AoE GCD of a Tank, I agree that DPS running on the opposite direction from you is frustrating, but even then, where are they running off to? dungeons are flashy hallways, they are either running towards you, or towards the wall, and if they do run towards the wall, that's the direction you are supposed to go anyway, why does it matter if you are doing it before or after the mobs?

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It takes 2-3 GCDs if the mobs get spread out, which is invariably the case. I have said this on more than one occasion in this thread. Threat is not the issue, range is.

How exactly do you take less than 1 GCD?

For the enemies to be 'spread', a set of aggro'd enemies need to be targeting different party members. However when a player aggros an enemy, the enemies adjacent to them will all converge toward this player. How is it possible they're getting 'spread out'?

Nevertheless, the solution when this happens is to just beeline behind this one puller then AoE once within range (or gapclose then AoE), or run together while tab targeting your ranged atk. Whoever pulling won't die in 2-3 GCDs even on a minimum iLv gear. Their health bar is your shield bar. You can do this without stop running at all.

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Originally Posted by Asari5

i mean... wouldnt it be alright for a dps to only use single target skills? their job is to deal dmg. and single target skills deal dmg too.
would be horrible for the pacing though

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There was a time (maybe 3-4 years ago now) I was a healer to a YPYT tank in Grand Cosmos back in ShB days. Pulls were dicey because that PLD(?) got salty one of the caster kept running ahead (caster even waited for the no-sprint PLD to get close enough before precasting their spell) & openly expresses their YPYT intent in party chat. The caster then replies something along the line of "ok then I will freestyle". The other DPS was actually on-board & started using only single targets from 2nd pull after 1st boss. Me? I stopped dpsing and cast only Physick and Adlo lol. Tank then try to VK the caster. It failed, then they bail themselves.

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

There was a time (maybe 3-4 years ago now) I was a healer to a YPYT tank in Grand Cosmos back in ShB days. Pulls were dicey because that PLD(?) got salty one of the caster kept running ahead (caster even waited for the no-sprint PLD to get close enough before precasting their spell) & openly expresses their YPYT intent in party chat. The caster then replies something along the line of "ok then I will freestyle". The other DPS was actually on-board & started using only single targets from 2nd pull after 1st boss. Me? I stopped dpsing and cast only Physick and Adlo lol. Tank then try to VK the caster. It failed, then they bail themselves.

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sounds great xD

had a ninja once in expert roulette in the matoya dungeon who jumped ahead and pulled because the tank was so slow.
the tank went full ypyt, deactivated tank stance and complained in the chat.
i healed the ninja instead and gave the tank a mouthfull afterwards. i guess the tank didnt really expect the healer to go against him. he didnt leave but he enhanced his speed a bit and didnt say a single word in the remaining time.



now, i dont wanna defend dps jobs pulling, i dont thinknthats the go to approach in a random dungeon, but ypyt is just worse than that xD

and before anyone says i just think like that because my main is a dps job.... i actually do a lot more dungeons as tank or healer and barely any as dps

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Originally Posted by Asari5

[…]now, i dont wanna defend dps jobs pulling, i dont thinknthats the go to approach in a random dungeon, but ypyt is just worse than that xD[…]

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Frankly I just think it as a consequences for not having punishment to the act itself. If people want to insist tanks as the only eligible puller, mobs need to start pummeling harder. Holding enmity has to be something that requires thought. Resources has to be more limited, THEN maybe there will be a justification why tanks absolutely has to be the one to start a pull.

Until then, it comes down to majority rule: if more people in the acting party don’t think it matters, then the YPYT has to deal with it or leave. Same is true for the opposite.

It is what it is.

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Originally Posted by Sunhwapark

It's a weird power trip mindset where the person desperately wants to be the shining protagonist of some story and the other party members are just background characters that cater to the whims of the tank, can't blame them if they are playing warrior though, they literally are 3 roles moulded into 1 job.

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Kinda the consequence of the MSQ literally making you the "chosen one that is the key to everything and saves the world" and catering to that mindset, even in trials you're just summoning 7 "dudes" to help a bit.
No wonder this game has such a staggering amount of people with main character syndrome.

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Originally Posted by Sunhwapark

It's a weird power trip mindset where the person desperately wants to be the shining protagonist of some story and the other party members are just background characters that cater to the whims of the tank, can't blame them if they are playing warrior though, they literally are 3 roles moulded into 1 job.

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It's something that actually matters in other games, and gets imported into this one where it doesn't matter. The last MMO I played, if anyone but the tank pulled, they were dead, and there were no rezzes. So it takes a bit of time sometimes for people who tanked in MMOs where DPS and healers had a binary existence to get used to this one where a healer and two DPS can frequently manage a boss fight while the tank is busy reconnecting from a DC.

God this is still going huh? I still think its irresponsible that DPS or Healers pull ahead of the Tank, but a Tank having a hissy fit over the fact is also irresponsible. A DPS under most circumstances, should not be pulling ahead of the Tank though, especially if the Tank/Healer is newer or less geared. I have had situations where a DPS pulling more than I wanted almost got me killed(Healer wasn't as great, I used basically all my MITs on the prior pull so I pulled softer, and unironically had to use Clemency on myself during said pull to not die), and it frustrated me to no end that people are so very insistent on getting things done so fast that they don't read the room. I can understand if a DPS pulls before me because a big button is about to end(RPR Enshroud, VPR Ouroboros, MCH Full Metal Field, etc) but just tossing yourself forward before I do is not going to make it faster notably especially with tanks like me who are ready to gun it from the start. Mind you I'm not going to be the baby crying that they're gonna tank, but I will often be a quietly petty and not pull for an extra second or two as a Tank, or not heal them as a Healer if I'm playing Not-SCH unless they're that low(most early pullers are Melee anyways, they got Second Wind and Bloodbath so they can get that health right back up).

It really does feel like people are fighting to be the most important and fastest in a dungeon group, but DPS don't want to see smaller numbers and simpler kits so they just decide to be said important person without being the one holding aggro, and Healers want a challenge healing and know they can't die as easily so they pull. Its just not that hard to understand, the only DPS in the entire game that benefits from pulling early over the Tank is SAM because their MIT is great and generates Meter, and SGE is the only Healer since they technically can Barrier and use Toxikon and break a barrier to get 4 from the start(or you know, just put a barrier on the tank...). You cannot tell me any other class that benefits pulling earlier than a Tank by like, 1 or 2 seconds before that Tank pulls it off of you besides being like 8 seconds faster in a dungeon clear in the grand scheme of it all.

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

Kinda the consequence of the MSQ literally making you the "chosen one that is the key to everything and saves the world" and catering to that mindset, even in trials you're just summoning 7 "dudes" to help a bit.
No wonder this game has such a staggering amount of people with main character syndrome.

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FFXI was like that too in the 75 era, we were THE chosen one, THE one to save the world and we didn't nearly have half the problems XIV has.

The issue here is there are simply no concequences for this kind of bad behavior or lazy gameplay, nor do we need to rely on other players to do things. SE actually seems to be pushing for ppl who just want to do what they want, everyone else be damned. You cannot have an mmo where there is no accountablity from either the company or the community (you were a entitled or just flat out bad player who refused to learn, good luck getting anything done in xi) and expect some ppl to even try. That is unfortunately a trend in mmos these days because these companies see big money in catering to this type of player, the ones who will shovel cash at them for item shop items but barely stick around, vs long term players who see an mmo as a long term game they regularly enjoy engaging with. XIV is like 2 steps away from becoming just another kmmo slopfest.

tldr: It's the entitlement, not the story that is the biggest problem here

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Originally Posted by DendrielConcade

(...)You cannot tell me any other class that benefits pulling earlier than a Tank(...)

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While not benefitting the class itself, a melee or ranged pulling and then using Arm's Length does benefit the tank by giving them free mitigation, so that's pretty cool. Whenever that happens when I'm tanking I feel like I just found Santa on DF

Honestly the fact that it's not getting through people's heads that the YPYT mentality is a bannable offense, and people are still doing it. Tells me that they need to make the punishment more stricter.

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Originally Posted by SomeGuy22

While not benefitting the class itself, a melee or ranged pulling and then using Arm's Length does benefit the tank by giving them free mitigation, so that's pretty cool. Whenever that happens when I'm tanking I feel like I just found Santa on DF

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Melee and Phys Range can use Arm's Length if they want but under certain circumstances its not going to help much(Magic Mobs unaffected by Slow, SCH Fairy healing said DPS losing health over the Tank, WHM Holy negating a portion of that Slow Duration), but if you desire to then sure, that is a benefit all Melee/Phys Range can give for pulling early if they so desired. It is on a 120s CD though so if its down then I can still justify a DPS shouldn't be pulling before a Tank.

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Originally Posted by MicahZerrshia

FFXI was like that too in the 75 era, we were THE chosen one, THE one to save the world and we didn't nearly have half the problems XIV has.

The issue here is there are simply no concequences for this kind of bad behavior or lazy gameplay, nor do we need to rely on other players to do things. SE actually seems to be pushing for ppl who just want to do what they want, everyone else be damned. You cannot have an mmo where there is no accountablity from either the company or the community (you were a entitled or just flat out bad player who refused to learn, good luck getting anything done in xi) and expect some ppl to even try. That is unfortunately a trend in mmos these days because these companies see big money in catering to this type of player, the ones who will shovel cash at them for item shop items but barely stick around, vs long term players who see an mmo as a long term game they regularly enjoy engaging with. XIV is like 2 steps away from becoming just another kmmo slopfest.

tldr: It's the entitlement, not the story that is the biggest problem here

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Notice the "catering to that mindset"
Of course it's not just due to the MSQ.

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Originally Posted by syldon

These are two different issues. A good tank will give pace while staying alive. This post is about dps deciding they should pull for the tank. My opinion that it is not a way to speed the run up. It takes 2-3 GCDs to capture those mobs back as they spread out. It is one thing complaining that some tanks are slow and another giving credence that DPS should be the ones dictating the pace. Even with a slow tank I would never pull for him. The dungeon lasts 20 minutes at worst. Is it really so hard to be courteous for that length of time?

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Two GCDs? A DPS is lucky to pull aggro off me with a single provoke and literally nothing else. If you're aoe-ing you'll catch everything eventually with pretty much zero effort. Not like it even matters if a mob bops a DPS or healer a couple times. They hardly do any damage. Which is why both roles pull in the first place. Dungeons simply aren't threatening.

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Originally Posted by syldon

It takes 2-3 GCDs if the mobs get spread out, which is invariably the case. I have said this on more than one occasion in this thread. Threat is not the issue, range is.

How exactly do you take less than 1 GCD?

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Who cares? Just bunch them up and let the DPS take an auto or two while you gather everything. Now if a DPS is running around like a headless chicken or off in Narnia refusing to bring the mob closer to make your job easier, then by all means. Leave them to their new friend. I very much doubt you'll see much opposition here about that. But outright refusing to pick up aggro is just bad tanking. This isn't other MMOs where if you grab aggro you risk killing yourself or the healer. A three pack pull does next to nothing. Especially nowadays with all the sustain tanks have. If I only tanked a single pack, I might as well remove every CD I have off my bar. They're practically useless given how little damage I'd be taking.

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Originally Posted by Grimforth

Honestly the fact that it's not getting through people's heads that the YPYT mentality is a bannable offense, and people are still doing it. Tells me that they need to make the punishment more stricter.

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This the most ridiculous notion I have ever read in any MMO forum. How can you ban someone for a cause and effect that you started. Give your head a shake.

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Originally Posted by syldon

This the most ridiculous notion I have ever read in any MMO forum. How can you ban someone for a cause and effect that you started. Give your head a shake.

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https://support.na.square-enix.com/f...la=1&kid=68216

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・Aiding the enemy / Uncooperative behavior / Lethargic behavior
Refers to an act of performing actions that give an advantage to an enemy (monsters, or the opposing team/players in PvP content) by not performing the necessary gameplay required of the situation. This may be combined with combat sabotage as well.
Key Points
Each player has a different level of skill, and in some cases, there may be a situation where the duty/content will fail. From the perspective of a skilled player in such a situation, a less skilled player may appear to be "adversarial/uncooperative/apathetic," but even if this is the case, it is not a violation as long as the player is playing appropriately.

For example, the following types of situations fall under the act of giving an advantage to the enemy (or the opposing team/players in PvP content):

"I don't want to heal because there is a player I don't like in the group."
"I don't think we can clear this anyway, so I'll just get hit by the enemy attack and go AFK after I'm knocked out."
"I'm going to join the opposing team as a healer and do nothing so my friends on the other team can win the PvP content."

If a report has been filed and the prohibited activity is confirmed, a penalty will be issued.

Please note that Square Enix may conduct investigations and issue a penalty in its discretion even if a report has not been filed if the act has been confirmed publicly through online video, streaming services, or other means.

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Two things to note about this: Intent is important, a DPS pulling can be safely assumed to have the best interest of the group, that is a quicker run through the instance, in mind, you considering that behavior uncooperative is irrelevant to that point, meanwhile, refusing to perform your textbook role, which I must stress, it's not to lead or to pull, it's to tank, is very clearly a sabotage of an individual.

I also highlighted example 1 because I don't think, and do say if you think otherwise, "I don't want to <perform my role> because I don't like how this player is acting", is meaningfully different from the example listed.

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Originally Posted by VeyaAkemi

Two things to note about this: Intent is important, a DPS pulling can be safely assumed to have the best interest of the group, that is a quicker run through the instance,

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That is not safe to assume. I've had Sages pull bosses because "muh toxicon stacks" which is not at all in the best interests of the group when they can get those stacks just as easily by shielding the tank. DPS pull ahead sometimes because they're not thinking about anyone but themselves, or just straight up not thinking at all. Note that I'm not on the side of the tanks that flip their stances off because a DPS got two steps ahead of them, just pointing out you really cannot assume every DPS that pulls ahead is doing so with nothing but selfless grace and love in their heart and every tank that doesn't pull aggro off a DPS is doing it out of spite and bruised ego.

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Originally Posted by Astronis

you really cannot assume every DPS that pulls ahead is doing so with nothing but selfless grace and love in their heart

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I never said it's selfless, I said that it is an action that, assuming nothing goes awry, will benefit the whole party, or at very minimum, they don't see it as a negative, the point is that it is very clearly not an attempt to sabotage the party.

Admittedly it's something that is difficult to properly gauge, I think it's is clear there is malice in the actions if the Tank ever stands there idle, which I seen happen before when the DPS was as much as moving ahead of the Tank slightly, but then if the Tank does move towards the DPS taking heat, but in a leisure pace, just at the normal run speed, no ranged attack, no gap closer, no sprint, no Provoke, were those tools on CD(barring ranged attack that has just GCD), or did the Tank willingly not use them and moved at all just to have plausible deniability? that's much harder to tell.

I also don't think a SGE willingly taking a hit to get Toxicon stacks is remotely a negative, it's their cooldowns, they can fix it themselves, and why get one Toxicon stack by shielding the Tank, when they could get two back to back by shielding themselves and the Tank?

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Originally Posted by syldon

This the most ridiculous notion I have ever read in any MMO forum. How can you ban someone for a cause and effect that you started. Give your head a shake.

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I think you need to give your head a shake since you obviously don't read the rules at all.

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Originally Posted by VeyaAkemi

I never said it's selfless, I said that it is an action that, assuming nothing goes awry, will benefit the whole party, or at very minimum, they don't see it as a negative, the point is that it is very clearly not an attempt to sabotage the party.

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Assuming nothing goes awry, it's safe to assume whatever the DPS did did not have a negative effect on the group and maybe had a miniscule positive effect, not that the DPS's intent can safely assumed to be the best interests of the group.

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Admittedly it's something that is difficult to properly gauge, I think it's is clear there is malice in the actions if the Tank ever stands there idle, which I seen happen before when the DPS was as much as moving ahead of the Tank slightly, but then if the Tank does move towards the DPS taking heat, but in a leisure pace, just at the normal run speed, no ranged attack, no gap closer, no sprint, no Provoke, were those tools on CD(barring ranged attack that has just GCD), or did the Tank willingly not use them and moved at all just to have plausible deniability? that's much harder to tell.

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I'd not call that malice. DPS wanted to have some fun and use their Bloodbath and Arm's Length, Tank let them have some fun, nothing went awry, all is well. Can't say that behavior is not doing your job--especially given so many DPS justify their pulling first as being extra tank mitigation. Let 'em mitigate a second or two! Could be the tank is annoyed or it could be the tank is letting the DPS do the job they say they want to do by pulling. Pulling aggro instantly results in tanking damage, so you can't decide that "pulling" is such a discrete behavior from "tanking" and then get upset if a tank lets you mitigate for them for a moment. ETA: To be clear--if a DPS gets that far ahead of me, which is rare, and they have Arm's Length and Bloodbath, I'm not going to make any special effort to reach them. They're fine, and I'll get there pretty quick anyhow because I am already sprinting, but I'm not gonna jump or voke. Other tanks may behave differently, and if they are quietly expressing what could be annoyance with your behavior but not letting you die, they aren't doing anything wrong.

Or the tank had to scratch their nose, I've done that before when a DPS got supremely impatient and pulled a boss. I'll Unmend as soon as I can, but lemme get my hand back on my mouse first.

Honestly, the only way for a DPS to pull without ever tanking is to be ranged and hit from behind the tank.

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I also don't think a SGE willingly taking a hit to get Toxicon stacks is remotely a negative, it's their cooldowns, they can fix it themselves, and why get one Toxicon stack by shielding the Tank, when they could get two back to back by shielding themselves and the Tank?

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It's definitely not done to benefit the party.

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Originally Posted by Astronis

Assuming nothing goes awry, it's safe to assume whatever the DPS did did not have a negative effect on the group and maybe had a miniscule positive effect, not that the DPS's intent can safely assumed to be the best interests of the group.

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You are being needlessly pedantic, I was simply attempting to address whether or not a DPS pulling would be, in itself, a reportable offense under that rule,which you seem to agree it's not, maybe I used overly flowery terms, but that's irrelevant to the point, which i felt was quite clear.

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Originally Posted by Astronis

Honestly, the only way for a DPS to pull without ever tanking is to be ranged and hit from behind the tank.

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You really underestimate the power of the pity ranged hit every melee minus MKN has plus a gap closer towards the Tank, not all who pull do that, but it is the ideal way to handle things if you are going that route.

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Originally Posted by Astronis

It's definitely not done to benefit the party.

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There is an argument it is a very minor benefit since it will allow the SGE to have marginally better DPS through the fight, but even ignoring that painfully pedantic argument, it doesn't have to be, it only needs to be neutral, me doing /mogdance or /lophop while the boss is untargetable and I don't need to move doesn't benefit the party either(and at least in one occasion, it was to our detriment, I was in Thornmarch, did /mogdance during phase transition, and it mesmerized a sprout enough that they ceased paying attention to the fight to ask me where that was from, funny story that), but it will be a cold day in hell before I don't do that.

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Originally Posted by Grimforth

I think you need to give your head a shake since you obviously don't read the rules at all.

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You can't prove intent the tank never says. That's why they never action it, because most people aren't so foolish as to openly say "I'm going to watch you die cuz you keep pulling for me!" So they never action it, because they don't action hearsay.

Time to stop playing Scared Ostrich when reality comes your way my friend in Hydaelyn

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Originally Posted by VeyaAkemi

You are being needlessly pedantic, I was simply attempting to address whether or not a DPS pulling would be, in itself, a reportable offense under that rule,which you seem to agree it's not, maybe I used overly flowery terms, but that's irrelevant to the point, which i felt was quite clear.

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I wouldn't have replied at all without the overly flowery language, not out of pedantry, but because it gets extremely old seeing so many players characterize DPS doing something that's fun for them but annoys a number of other players as being laudable and beyond reproach while the annoyance is characterized as a moral failure. It's a generalized thing about this community that makes me glad I took up tanking in it long before I encountered these forums, as I think it deters people from playing a role they might enjoy. I do agree that DPS pulling isn't by itself reportable.

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You really underestimate the power of the pity ranged hit every melee minus MKN has plus a gap closer towards the Tank, not all who pull do that, but it is the ideal way to handle things if you are going that route.

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To be overly pedantic, Harpe by itself sucks, and "be ranged" certainly can include using your ranged skills :)

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There is an argument it is a very minor benefit since it will allow the SGE to have marginally better DPS through the fight, but even ignoring that painfully pedantic argument, it doesn't have to be, it only needs to be neutral, me doing /mogdance or /lophop while the boss is untargetable and I don't need to move doesn't benefit the party either(and at least in one occasion, it was to our detriment, I was in Thornmarch, did /mogdance during phase transition, and it mesmerized a sprout enough that they ceased paying attention to the fight to ask me where that was from, funny story that), but it will be a cold day in hell before I don't do that.

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Verily, most pedantic indeed. I'm not stopping /mogdance there either. At least when I can remember it's not /moogledance.

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Originally Posted by VeyaAkemi

https://support.na.square-enix.com/f...la=1&kid=68216



Two things to note about this: Intent is important, a DPS pulling can be safely assumed to have the best interest of the group, that is a quicker run through the instance, in mind, you considering that behavior uncooperative is irrelevant to that point, meanwhile, refusing to perform your textbook role, which I must stress, it's not to lead or to pull, it's to tank, is very clearly a sabotage of an individual.

I also highlighted example 1 because I don't think, and do say if you think otherwise, "I don't want to <perform my role> because I don't like how this player is acting", is meaningfully different from the example listed.

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this is all subjective. And it is ended by stating:

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it is not a violation as long as the player is playing appropriately.

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It is not appropriate for a PUG dps to pull mobs, without prior arrangement in place. For this to be an offence which causes exclusion, then you would have to show where it declares this as reasonable.

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Originally Posted by syldon

this is all subjective. And it is ended by stating:

It is not appropriate for a PUG dps to pull mobs, without prior arrangement in place. For this to be an offence which causes exclusion, then you would have to show where it declares this as reasonable.

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"Because I said so and the tanks don't get a say in this matter otherwise they're evil and toxic!!1!"

(This is intended to be satire, in case this wasn't obvious)

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Originally Posted by syldon

this is all subjective. And it is ended by stating:

It is not appropriate for a PUG dps to pull mobs, without prior arrangement in place. For this to be an offence which causes exclusion, then you would have to show where it declares this as reasonable.

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I can understand if the DPS runs around like an headless chicken instead of bringing them to you but completely refusing to take aggro because "you pull you tank" is absolutely against ToS and "not playing appropriately". And it also means that the tank should do something about their ego issues.

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Originally Posted by BlisteringFrost

You can't prove intent the tank never says. That's why they never action it, because most people aren't so foolish as to openly say "I'm going to watch you die cuz you keep pulling for me!" So they never action it, because they don't action hearsay.

Time to stop playing Scared Ostrich when reality comes your way my friend in Hydaelyn

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The fact that you're trying so hard to defend this mentality as a clear indication that you're one of many tanks that do this. Also they do action it especially when it's happened to three other people. And the GMS are most likely to believe the reports of 3 people instead of 1 crybaby tank. I'm probably wrong though I could be right, but I'm pretty sure that every single dungeon and or Raid is recorded and gets deleted after a certain amount of time has passed. A GM can simply just go back and watch what happens from start to finish and if the people who reported you is telling the truth, then you're getting punish. The tank doesn't have to say a damn thing and you're still getting punished. Actions do speak louder than words and you're the loudest person in the room right now.

Face the reality buddy, the game does not cater to your needs and you should knock it off with the YPYT mentality.

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Originally Posted by Grimforth

The fact that you're trying so hard to defend this mentality as a clear indication that you're one of many tanks that do this. Also they do action it especially when it's happened to three other people. And the GMS are most likely to believe the reports of 3 people instead of 1 crybaby tank. I'm probably wrong though I could be right, but I'm pretty sure that every single dungeon and or Raid is recorded and gets deleted after a certain amount of time has passed. A GM can simply just go back and watch what happens from start to finish and if the people who reported you is telling the truth, then you're getting punish. The tank doesn't have to say a damn thing and you're still getting punished. Actions do speak louder than words and you're the loudest person in the room right now.

Face the reality buddy, the game does not cater to your needs and you should knock it off with the YPYT mentality.

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Ad hominem post. Lol.

See also: Strawman Argument. Hasty Generalization. Red Herring. False-Dilemma, and Appeal To Ignorance. Couple of these might not be quite right though.

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Originally Posted by BlisteringFrost

Ad hominem post. Lol.

See also: Strawman Argument. Hasty Generalization. Red Herring. False-Dilemma, and Appeal To Ignorance. Couple of these might not be quite right though.

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Your constant denial proves my point even further. Why are you even arguing at this point?

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Originally Posted by Grimforth

Your constant denial proves my point even further. Why are you even arguing at this point?

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Where's the denial? XD

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BlisteringFrost

Where's the denial? XD

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Go back and read your own posts.

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Originally Posted by Grimforth

Go back and read your own posts.

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My friend in Hydaelyn I have 245 (including this) posts. You will have to be more specific.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BlisteringFrost

My friend in Hydaelyn I have 245 (including this) posts. You will have to be more specific.

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I don't have to be specific at all. You know what you said. Funny how going back 2 to 3 pages is quite the difficult challenge for someone such as you

Hmm.... Well I looked through a few dozen posts. I don't see a single one of me saying "I am defending YPYT". Ad hominem doesn't give a whole lot to debate with I'm afraid.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BlisteringFrost

Hmm.... Well I looked through a few dozen posts. I don't see a single one of me saying "I am defending YPYT". Ad hominem doesn't give a whole lot to debate with I'm afraid.

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"Sighs" y'know what? Forget it. Don't know why you're being incredibly slow right now but I'm not going to bother with it anymore. Such a simple answer and you're choosing to play dumb. I'm just going to leave you be and let you make poor idiotic decisions. You'll get punished by the GM's, and you'll be back here complaining that the rules are unfair.

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Originally Posted by syldon

You are welcome to your opinion. But where is this going to impose a ban on a tank?

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I think you, maybe, might've missed the second part, that's in parenthesis. I can't say definitively. But I'm just going off a hunch. It's important context.

ok you got me.