Female Hrothgar as a playable race. Show your support!

Since my problems are based on the cutscene, ill hide my comment

I feel like I'm definitely jaded or disappointed with the possible *look* of female Hrothgars in the mural. Yes, the female shrine roe and even primal Gunnhildr are not an exact representation (the later seems to be a slimmer/curvy femroe model than what's possible to customize) But unless we see male races in other murals then its just a theory rather than an artistic exaggeration like with historical paintings or dolls that emphasize proportions of females.

Harshist nitpick INCOMING:
They all look like anime avatars of Mrs Watterson from Gumball :/. I defend male Hrothgars existence being a much more niche but necessary branch for race variety compared to the miqote. But here comes a stone mural that might show a glimpse of female Hrothgars as miqote elezens with different ears; it really doesn't give me room to defend the race anymore.
The Devs wanted a beastial race...so why only have 1/2 of the race be that? Just use the femroe model with adjusted mesh and unique but similar face to male Hrothgar, so now 2 races have linked gear assets with their respective genders. The concept in the mural looks lazy yet such a try hard attempt to differentiate, that even I don't know this would work for the better besides joining female hrothgars gear assets with fem mid Hyur, Elezen, Miqote and Au Ra.
My only silver lining is that either shrine female Hrothgars might just be slim and less Beastial, with the Lost clan females being more bestial with their colder fur color pallet (Miqote, Au Ra and Eleven do this but not to such an extreme idea like I'm thinking of). Or the nose details are just not properly detailed. They're slanted eyes fit with a more wild variety of feline but a human/curved nose just wouldn't work well without the lion snout and jaw. Ill just have to imagine the possibility that will never be ;(
http://imgur.com/a/nUgehX7

Personally I love the build, if that's a rough idea of what we could expect I would definately fantasia one of my characters. Also, their faces do look cat-like to me. Maybe house cat rather than big cat. But definately animal.

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Originally Posted by MsQi

Well if they ever do add FemHroths(?) (Femgars?) it's likely they'll be based on an existing race. I thought they might build them from Femroes, but maybe they will start with Highlanders or Elezen?

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I've been saying for a long time now that they wouldn't alter the Femroe Body for the Female Hrothgar IF they ever made them.

That's because outside of Lala-females ALL females are built from the Middie base. For w/e reason when they added Femroe to the game in 2.0 they didn't base them off of Roebro bod. That would have resulted in a wide and prob very curvy/ burly build that would be so different from every female that they would have to have custom animations to avoid clipping and such just like how Roebros (and now Hrothgar) have different emotes and stances and such. Also part of the reason Femroe are cursed to have girly animations like the Toast emote, they don't get custom animations.

I've always been of the mind that, just like with Viera, even if they did want to make another "tall-n-strong female" they would just start from middie again (to make them more pleasing just like how Male Hrothgar have a better looking bod compared to Roebros) ... cause basing a copy of a concept from a less popular/ successful copy makes lil sense. Elezen suffer to this day because in 1.0 the devs didn't know how to properly scale the middie model/ rig to have the right proportions to get the look they wanted and this carried over into 2.0. This is why so many Elezen NPCs with custom heads look better, they fixed the problem for them. This is why Viera and Drago bois look so much better in ever way compared to Elezen (and Viera faces are HQ af compared to every race), over the years the people working on this game have improved by miles compared to 1.0 days.

That's why I assume they're doing what they're doing with the Bojza Femroe(s).

Looking beyond the fact that Mizija is in this story basically only cause they can't use female Hrothgar, I noticed something. When I was max slider Femroe I noticed that Mizija wasn't as tall as me which I thought was interesting. Seemed decently shorter than a max slider Femroe to basically fill the seat of a female Hrothgar I thought (cause Hrothgar males are NOT as tall as Femroe can be). Then we get this patch and lore with the art and we see her ancestor who has her same head but a clearly non-femroe body model but is also the same height. The devs know how Femroe look, they know how to make them ... they chose to give her ancestor a custom body that looks far more appealing and that may be because they're using them as stand ins for Female Hrothgar.

This all, to me at least, reaffirms that if they ever do female Hrothgar they won't make them animal headed femroe.
Tis why I always say I feel like they would be taller Highlanders ... cause a "better looking" version of a tall, strong woman compared to a Femroe would look like a thighlander. But if this all I'm looking at is to point to anything they may be going for a thighlander mixed Viera/ elezen build?

I need that so badly, looking forward the next digital fan festival to see this, since story wise it will become more and more absurd not to show any female Rothgar even though they made some plot stunt by making the latest Bozjan queen a female Roe.

As i see it, it's only a matter of time since after all they only said it would be the last time they add a new races so gender unlocking is still a possibily (as they did for miqo'te and roegadyn.)

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Originally Posted by DamianFatale

My question is if female Hrothgar were mostly shrine maidens and queens, then what happened to them? Did they die in the castle? Where are these new baby Hrothgar of newer generations from? Are the rebels hiding female Hrothgar?

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Considering we've now met multiple Hrothgar men who've had wives and children with no implication it's anything but monogamous, the women don't sound like they're 'that' rare, or at least as rare as Miqo'te men. It could just be something was lost in proverbial translation when someone wrote those quests though (because there's no easier motivation for Plucky Freedom Fighters than Dead Family).

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Originally Posted by MsQi

Well if they ever do add FemHroths(?) (Femgars?) it's likely they'll be based on an existing race. I thought they might build them from Femroes, but maybe they will start with Highlanders or Elezen?

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I believe the term is Hrothgals.

And I'm just gonna say the cop-out completely sapped my life force when i got to it. D;

Edit: This comment of mine seems a bit too heated. I genuinely apologize but still appreciate and accept all comments. Just know I don't direct my issues towards users. I'm a bit too passionate over this and I'll mellow out.

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Originally Posted by reivaxe

I've been saying for a long time now that they wouldn't alter the Femroe Body for the Female Hrothgar IF they ever made them.

That's because outside of Lala-females ALL females are built from the Middie base. For w/e reason when they added Femroe to the game in 2.0 they didn't base them off of Roebro bod. That would have resulted in a wide and prob very curvy/ burly build that would be so different from every female that they would have to have custom animations to avoid clipping and such just like how Roebros (and now Hrothgar) have different emotes and stances and such. Also part of the reason Femroe are cursed to have girly animations like the Toast emote, they don't get custom animations.

I've always been of the mind that, just like with Viera, even if they did want to make another "tall-n-strong female" they would just start from middie again (to make them more pleasing just like how Male Hrothgar have a better looking bod compared to Roebros) ... cause basing a copy of a concept from a less popular/ successful copy makes lil sense.

Tis why I always say I feel like they would be taller Highlanders ... cause a "better looking" version of a tall, strong woman compared to a Femroe would look like a thighlander. But if this all I'm looking at is to point to anything they may be going for a thighlander mixed Viera/ elezen build?

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You kind of explained the reason why they didn't base females off the male Roegadyn. The Stances and emotes though on initial releases are generally exclusive to the race in question while they map newer emotes to a specific animation for males or females minus changes on lalas. Roegadyn's are less popular yet that didn't stop them from using the model for Hrothgar and not something like Highlanders. Some just want a consistency with how models are used for the races and to end the extreme dimorphism between genders after the worried launch of Au Ra.

Even female highlanders don't use their own model and they barely fit with the theme of that clan since they have more girly emotes and run animations unique to them. They have a male Hrothgar model done. Mapping gearsets and assets to male Roegadyn that still made it an impressive concept despite the horrid character customization in regards to hair and programming for head pieces. For consistency sake, either adjust the Middie model to make them as close as Female Roegadyns at the cost of mapping girly emotes and animations to them.

Or...hear me out, adjust the mesh on male Hrothgar to make female Hrothgars under the male Roegadyn body to map gear, assets and emotes to them. We do this with lalafels with very rare chances of custom designed gears for females. Either way is the lazy choice but the theory is that they're going with the Middie model to not follow Femroes, which would adjust them to look better like how male Hrothgars are with Maleroes. But, rather a vastly different concept to what the males look like. The mural and Gunnhildr's custom model makes them look possibly dimorphic as neko catgirls and it might be Au Ra syndrome all over again for this advertised "Bestial" race.

SE might make Female Hrothgars with closer head models to middie face models of races rather than use the custom faces they have with male Hrothgar to make female ones. They are putting in work to stick with the tired tradition of bestial males alongside slim human looking females, when the community is giving them advice to do it lazier but faithful to the races concept while against the grain of fantasy race design. A random initial reaction is, "ew, that's a disgusting idea. I'm not gonna play that race". Well, majority of players are not playing Roegadyns (M/F) nor Hrothgar anyway (Japan's least played race/gender is female Roegadyn. That may have answered my question too ^^;), team is advertising the race as something for character diversity, the diversity is that they're bestial, so why lie about it when making female Hrothgar?

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Originally Posted by reivaxe

I've been saying for a long time now that they wouldn't alter the Femroe Body for the Female Hrothgar IF they ever made them.

That's because outside of Lala-females ALL females are built from the Middie base. For w/e reason when they added Femroe to the game in 2.0 they didn't base them off of Roebro bod. That would have resulted in a wide and prob very curvy/ burly build that would be so different from every female that they would have to have custom animations to avoid clipping and such just like how Roebros (and now Hrothgar) have different emotes and stances and such. Also part of the reason Femroe are cursed to have girly animations like the Toast emote, they don't get custom animations.

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femroes sharing emotes/mount positions with midlander ladies and not roes/hroth are the bane of my existance. i hope from the bottom of my heart that the reveal confirms hrothgals and femroes are similar enough in looks for that switch to be believable.

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Originally Posted by AnAverageAspie

You kind of explained the reason why they didn't base females off the male Roegadyn. The Stances and emotes though on initial releases are generally exclusive to the race in question while they map newer emotes to a specific animation for males or females minus changes on lalas. Roegadyn's are less popular yet that didn't stop them from using the model for Hrothgar and not something like Highlanders. Some just want a consistency with how models are used for the races and to end the extreme dimorphism between genders after the worried launch of Au Ra.

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Oh, I wasn't asking a question so much as trying not to speak for the companies decisions with guess work that I can't back up. to ME it's clear why they did it from a design and culture PoV.

Lots of stuff..

1- lalas have the same model regardless of gender. I'm fairly sure they don't even have bones for the female "breast" cause of how small they are. So it's likely not that hard making gear for them as "what fits this cute meat ball model would fit the other gender". Roe are not like that. They were never designed to be androgynous, they were clearly FF14's version of the FF11 Galka which were male only. So they're big and hyper masculine ... making any possible female version using that base rig need to have extensive effort to pull off. You can't make easy alterations to the RoeBro model to have an appealing female, making Femroe based on the middie model is cheaper and easier.

2- The reason Femroe look the way they do is because it's the closest to Roebro they can get with the middie female model with out making them "fat" or wide. They still want to have some level of conventionally attractive female so yeah ... they don't get the gorilla proportions or girth of the males. They look the most masculine of females but they have the biggest tits in an effort to balance it out and soften them. TBH after to the Au Ra the Roe have the worse case of dimorphism in the game as they don't even share general body shapes. Femroe look that different from Roebros to me.


As for why they made Hrothgar off of Roe instead of Highlanders...
1- That feeds into "copy of a copy". Highlanders are based on Middies, so they would just use middies as a base.
2- They wanted to make a 2nd "BIG" race like the Roebros. If what you want is another big, wide, hyper masculine race (2nd attempt to please fans of that body type) to push the beastly poses and persona you want to give them it makes far more sense to just use the unique Roe Rig/ model as a starting point over making 1 from middies. If what they wanted was something like the lupin then yeah, use the middie model to make something like that. But as it stands, looking at the end result ... yeah, you don't get that easily from starting with middies. We can only assume Hrothgar as they are are what the devs wanted.

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For consistency sake, either adjust the Middie model to make them as close as Female Roegadyns at the cost of mapping girly emotes and animations to them.

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What point would there be in taking a middie body and trying to make Femroe 2? Their goal with Hrothgar were to make a Beast race with better looking big body from the Roebro that would look more appealing and heroic/ ideal in armor than their current big race at the time (this is what they said actually. They wanted Hrothgar to have a more heroic shape/ proportions and said they would look better in armor than Roe). Roe are still by far the biggest, tallest race with the biggest muscles. This is their thing, their main trait.

I think that the key trait to Hrothgar is NOT being the biggest or buffest race (again, that's Roe's thing ... Hrothgar aren't even allowed to be the 2nd tallest males) but more so "Beastly people with appealing fantasy frames". Like how Au Ra are clearly reptilian east Asian people who were more beastly than any other option at the time ... that's the core trait/ theme there. They don't both have to be taller than Elezen or shorter than kitties to hit this theme which is why the devs were ok with the extreme dimorphism (the females were based on JPop star body types iirc. They decided to make the males tall and handsome though).

That's been an on-going undercurrent of my discourse with some people's views in this thread. I don't see Hrothgar as an attempt to make Roe ... I see them as an attempt (successful attempt IMO) to make an attractive big beastly race that's based on Ronso. The whole reason Femroe are the tallest and buffest (resulting in them appearing as the most masculine looking) option for females is because being "biggest and buffest" is the Roe's thing, it's their key trait. Hrothgar are not as tall nor as big nor as muscular as Roebros and they are more attractive than them so I've never gotten the idea as to why their females would have to look like Femroe or "as close as you can!".

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Or...hear me out, adjust the mesh on male Hrothgar to make female Hrothgars under the male Roegadyn body to map gear, assets and emotes to them. We do this with lalafels

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Oh, no.
Already addressed this up top.
Lalas are basically like cute toddle people. Sure, a boy and girl toddle can easily look gender fluid because they lack the core traits of what comes from puberty ... but it's way harder dressing up a full grown body builder male (with the hyper masculine fantasy of the inverted triangle bod) to look like a female and have that look "good".

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SE might make Female Hrothgars with closer head models to middie face models of races rather than use the custom faces they have with male Hrothgar to make female ones. They are putting in work to stick with the tired tradition of bestial males alongside slim human looking females, when the community is giving them advice to do it lazier but faithful to the races concept while against the grain of fantasy race design. A random initial reaction is, "ew, that's a disgusting idea. I'm not gonna play that race". Well, majority of players are not playing Roegadyns (M/F) nor Hrothgar anyway (Japan's least played race/gender is female Roegadyn. That may have answered my question too ^^;), team is advertising the race as something for character diversity, the diversity is that they're bestial, so why lie about it when making female Hrothgar?

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Funny, I actually wonder if they may "right their wrongs" by making Male Viera and Female Hrothgar have kitty style heads so that they can have hair and head gear that work how it does on kitty characters instead of dealing with w/e they have to deal with for the current half races.

Anyway, no, it's not "lazier" to take the male model/ rig from Roe to make a female. That's actually harder than using a middie. And IDK how many people are seriously asking for Female Hrothgar to be ... Male Hrothgar with tits.
As for popularity, Femroe are the least played anything in this game for any region ... THIGHLANDERS are the 2nd least played female. Shockingly, people who play a JRPG have certain common taste in females though this game isn't fully focused on that with every option.

As for the Female Hrothgar art ... it's pretty much exactly what I thought they would be. It acts as a direct comparison between Femroe and a possible Female Hrothgar. It's exactly what I thought it would be for the most part ... they are depicted as being smaller than Femroe, slimmer than Femroe with more attractive proportions (shoulders aren't wider than their hips, hip to waist ratios is more appealing to). This is also reflected in the spoiler woman custom body.

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Originally Posted by reivaxe

They were never designed to be androgynous, they were clearly FF14's version of the FF11 Galka which were male only. So they're big and hyper masculine

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No one said they were designed to be androgynous or not.
Which are a downgrade from the Galka who have tails and more gruff face to fit their orc inspiration

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Originally Posted by reivaxe

What point would there be in taking a middie body and trying to make Femroe 2? Their goal with Hrothgar were to make a Beast race with better looking big body from the Roebro that would look more appealing and heroic/ ideal in armor than their current big race at the time. Roe are still by far the biggest, tallest race with the biggest muscles. This is their thing, their main trait.

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You answered it again. We are not asking for them to be tall or big as female Roegadyns. Just similar but improved body that fits to scale with male Hrothgar and maybe shorter. Even if not as big and beefy, male Hrothgar are more defined and heroic than stansard customisable khajits. But now, we might have females be less of a beastial race than khajit females.

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Originally Posted by reivaxe

I see them as an attempt (successful attempt IMO) to make an attractive big beastly race that's based on Ronso.
but it's way harder dressing up a full grown body builder male (with the hyper masculine fantasy of the inverted triangle bod)

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The Males lack most of the defining features of Ronso and are more along the lines of Bara lion dads. Thinner waist, shorter shoulder span and hunched over. I like these traits mind you but many do not like the...uninspired job of female Ronso and want something similar to male Hrothgar. A strong heroic-masculine but alluring female with a curved trapezoid bod. Not a small, pinup she hulk with cat ears and maybe a snout.

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Originally Posted by reivaxe

Funny, I actually wonder if they may "right their wrongs" by making Male Viera and Female Hrothgar have kitty style heads so that they can have hair and head gear that work how it does on kitty characters instead of dealing with w/e they have to deal with for the current half races.

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Hair and ears are a equivalent head piece where the community found ways to bypass it with mapping the headgear onto earrings and not have to wrap them along the outside of the head. I think it would be more along the lines of, "throwing the baby out with the bathwater".

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Originally Posted by reivaxe

Anyway, no, it's not "lazier" to take the male model/ rig from Roe to make a female. That's actually harder than using a middie. And IDK how many people are seriously asking for Female Hrothgar to be ... Male Hrothgar with tits.
As for popularity, Femroe are the least played anything in this game for any region ... THIGHLANDERS are the 2nd least played female. Shockingly, people who play a JRPG have certain common taste in females though this game isn't fully focused on that with every option.

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And apparently they wanted a reptilian race in this game (scalies) but what do we know? JRPGs originally were inspired by ultima and D&D, tastes change especially when promoting your product onto a world market. And if taste, how are they changed and when do they shift? Just because people play specific genres doesn't mean they're fully inclined in enjoying all asthetics or text of it but just stay for gameplay.

A fit woman (not ones building "moviestar muscles") would have less breast tissue as they curve and not show much on the front. Female lions don't have human tits, so don't put big tits on female hrothgar, simple as that (http://imgur.com/a/nUgehX7)

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Originally Posted by reivaxe

As for the Female Hrothgar art...they are depicted as being smaller than Femroe, slimmer than Femroe with more attractive proportions (shoulders aren't wider than their hips, hip to waist ratios is more appealing to). This is also reflected in the spoiler woman custom body.

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A body with little to no meat on it. I can take her arms off and slap the castrum bosses silly with those noodles. Neither empowering or daring, just something to slap on a magazine. The other option is just as lazy and still had little to lose when its involved with Hrothgars and Roegadyns.

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Originally Posted by AnAverageAspie

No one said they were designed to be androgynous or not.

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That's the point, they're not androgynous which makes basing a different gender on them far more difficult.

For example, they added in Thighlanders and Cat Bois in the game along with Femroe .... I'm 100% sure they didn't take male highlanders and turn them into women nor did that take kitty girls model and make a dude outta it. That would be a lot more effort and not really logical when you have boy/ girl middies you can use as the base.

So yeah, it's cheaper, easier and faster to make Femroe from a middie base over trying to take a male gorilla shaped model and turn it into something that's gonna need a ton of custom work if you want it to look good.

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You answered it again. We are not asking for them to be tall or big as female Roegadyns. Just similar but improved body that fits to scale with male Hrothgar and maybe shorter. Even if not as big and beefy, male Hrothgar are more defined and heroic than stansard customisable khajits. But now, we might have females be less of a beastial race than khajit females.

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The bolded you point to ...
"Beast race with better looking big body from the Roebro that would look more appealing and heroic/ ideal in armor than their current big race at the time"

That's ... a taller Thighlander. A Thighlander is a more appealing/ heroic/ ideal female bodyshape for a "strong, athletic, action hero female". As someone who has played Femroe for like 5 years I must say that I do love them BUT glamming them is a mini-game with-in it's self. About 60% of tops are a hard pass for ME cause they either look bad on them or flat out make them look like dudes.

Doing the things that change that would result in something like a Thighlander. It would result in that art work (slimmer/ shoulders not wider than their hips/ great hips-to-waist difference). It would result in that custom bod for spoiler. If you make something that's smaller than Femroe, that's not as buff as Femroe, and wears gear better than Femroe you're going to get a more conventionally attractive female shape.

I think the disconnect here is the word "appealing".

It's just another word for "conventionally attractive and pleasing to the eye" really.

If you want something like this you're basically asking for something as buff as Femroe or buffer given the torso girth. That's completely within your right, I just don't think it's something they would do given the natural of how they went about making Hrothgar males.

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The Males lack most of the defining features of Ronso and are more along the lines of Bara lion dads. Thinner waist, shorter shoulder span and hunched over. I like these traits mind you but many do not like the...uninspired job of female Ronso and want something similar to male Hrothgar. A strong heroic-masculine but alluring female with a curved trapezoid bod. Not a small, pinup she hulk with cat ears and maybe a snout.

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Well, like, they legit advertised them as "HEY, you can make a Ronso!" and call them Ronso on the first. You may not think they are that connected but SE sure made that connection.

And IDK how many people are out here screaming for "strong heroic-masculine but alluring female with a curved trapezoid bod". Unlike Male Viera they don't get much fan art fantasies for them. There's like a handful of art for them and most of it goes all over the place. So lil infact that I have told people in this very thread to look up Tabaxi females to fill that void in their heart. Likely cause there's not really a mystery behind it.

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And apparently they wanted a reptilian race in this game (scalies) but what do we know? JRPGs originally were inspired by ultima and D&D, tastes change especially when promoting your product onto a world market. And if taste, how are they changed and when do they shift? Just because people play specific genres doesn't mean they're fully inclined in enjoying all asthetics or text of it but just stay for gameplay.

A fit woman (not ones building "moviestar muscles") would have less breast tissue as they curve and not show much on the front. Female lions don't have human tits, so don't put big tits on female hrothgar, simple as that (http://imgur.com/a/nUgehX7)

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I can't speak as to how happy people are with the Draggos as they are, I can only say that they're not my cup-of-joe but they're hella popular as is.

Anyway, Hrothgar are not Charr. Hrothgar are more human than cat ... so saying "Female lions don't have human tits" doesn't really fly here. And again, you seem to just be asking for Femroe ... but flat chested Femroe. Which is your right, I just don't get acting like that's not what you're asking for.

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A body with little to no meat on it. I can take her arms off and slap the castrum bosses silly with those noodles. Neither empowering or daring, just something to slap on a magazine. The other option is just as lazy and still had little to lose when its involved with Hrothgars and Roegadyns.

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You have your taste, you can be disappointed if you want. That's cool.

Personally?
Looks pretty much how I envisioned them body wise save for some possible Draggo rug pull move where they legit just make them slightly taller kitty girls with animal heads. Also, given the freedom the males have in head shape I don't think the females would be limited to having any particular cat head so they could by all means lean in on smaller cat types for more female looking faces.

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Originally Posted by reivaxe

I'm 100% sure they didn't take male highlanders and turn them into women nor did that take kitty girls model and make a dude outta it.
So yeah, it's cheaper, easier and faster to make Femroe from a middie base over trying to take a male gorilla shaped model and turn it into something that's gonna need a ton of custom work

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And rather than making a new model we now have the thighlander/femroe conundrum of mapped emote animations, I gave this option whether I dislike it or not. But handling a masculine but unpopular male model, pinching the middle of waist, shrinking biceps and legs while sliding shoulders to make a more boxy beastial version of Abby (tlou2) won't flood the office with sweat. Nor is handling the middie model the same way starting from femroe with the sad caveat of girly animations.

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Originally Posted by reivaxe

That's ... a taller Thighlander. A Thighlander is a more appealing/ heroic/ ideal female bodyshape for a "strong, athletic, action hero female". As someone who has played Femroe for like 5 years I must say that I do love them BUT glamming them is a mini-game with-in it's self. About 60% of tops are a hard pass for ME cause they either look bad on them or flat out make them look like dudes.

I think the disconnect here is the word "appealing".

It's just another word for "conventionally attractive and pleasing to the eye" really.

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Hey, its a head/neck clip show when I dress up my character so I get that ;3
But "Thighlanders" are a cartoonish/seductive/crass form of the amazoness fantasy design that was copy pasted on illustrated covers/panels of Heavy Metal comics that were also alongside new high fantasy illustrations of Conan. Not masculine or heroic enough to be a serious representation of a beastial race and the last of the late 20th century's representation of women that needs to go.

Fatter woman were more "appealing" for royalty and motherly attractions and we used to call younger children of any gender girls. Whats appealing, descriptive or desirable of gender changes very quickly so I wouldn't recommend using it to make a point on beauty standards.

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Originally Posted by reivaxe

Well, like, they legit advertised them as "HEY, you can make a Ronso!" and call them Ronso on the first. You may not think they are that connected but SE sure made that connection.

There's like a handful of art for them and most of it goes all over the place. So lil infact that I have told people in this very thread to look up Tabaxi females to fill that void in their heart. Likely cause there's not really a mystery behind it.

I can't speak as to how happy people are with the Draggos as they are, I can only say that they're not my cup-of-joe but they're hella popular as is.

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When 1/4 of the race can be somewhat of a "Ronso", while 1/14th of the universe thats not even the source, calls them "Ronso". You can imagine the betrayal or lack of respect of an existing race when they just dropped Viera into the game minus the feet. But sure, let's take more from Ronso and catgirls with female Hrothgars to never legit compete with miqote.

Tabaxis please me greatly but don't try and lie to us that we're garuntee female Hrothgars looking like them when we have murals of them looking like anime Mrs Watersons.

Yes, the race that's a drastic turn from the more bold concept arts but we must "Think of the head gear!" And the current race that's popular for its smaller females, horn clipping be damned.

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Originally Posted by reivaxe

Anyway, Hrothgar are not Charr. Hrothgar are more human than cat ...

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I only mentioned two fantasy races ever in this discussion. And none were Charr. Nobody here is asking for that besides a even more vocal minority that's looking at dimorphism for male Hrothgar into the opposite direction (Bara lion dad males with beastly zodd females)

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Originally Posted by reivaxe

Personally?
Looks pretty much how I envisioned them body wise save for some possible Draggo rug pull move where they legit just make them slightly taller kitty girls with animal heads. Also, given the freedom the males have in head shape I don't think the females would be limited to having any particular cat head so they could by all means lean in on smaller cat types for more female looking faces.

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Thats the only silver lining I see. Either the custom model was to retain the Buddhist elegance (ppl think the primal will morph to ashura from ffiv)
While consistent on a Female Roegadyn (maybe 6.0 being character creator update and body adjustments?).
Or to make a bigger leap, Female Hrothgar would have the hyur/highlander treatment where the shrine maiden Helions are more about that trad beauty while The Lost have a more beastial look and bigger body that rivals male Hrothgar. Using the middie model for two different body types respective to their clan.

I may wade into this more deeply later, but for now I'll say that I saw the scene with the "custom model" Roegadyn and I don't think it looks right. The proportions are off and her arms look really thin. Also it's worth noting that the body model is "equipped" as part of the clothing so it's not exactly that they've built a special model for her but that every character with unique clothing can have a customised body shape built into it. (See: Minfilia.)

Also the mural of female Hrothgar is what I would have expected - and I wouldn't take it to indicate that they don't have a more beastly hunched-over posture in life. The males are quite capable of standing upright or not as they feel like it, and a stylised mural is going to look much better with them viewed straight-on and not bent over.

That makes much more sense, I completely forgot gear can map on specific body shapes ala 2Bottoms

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Originally Posted by AnAverageAspie

And rather than making a new model we now have the thighlander/femroe conundrum of mapped emote animations...

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That's only a conundrum for Femroe, thighlanders are human and have explicitly goofy/ expressive/ "extra" and flat out troll emotes unique to them that build their identity. So yeah, seeing them do any number of girly emotes shared by other females isn't jarring in the least for me. They're made in a way where that type of stuff works, prob one of if not the most flexible females when it comes to looking either tough as f or traditionally goofy or feminine.


When I potioned to Thighlander the girlish giggle at the end of the Toast emote or the Sch scribble didn't hit me in any off-putting way cause their /pose hits just the same. Lots of their personal emotes have that energy. But when I was Femroe? It was jarring AF and highly disappointing like many of their shared emotes/ stances since everything about them is pretty much "BIG and strong".

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But "Thighlanders" are a cartoonish/seductive/crass form of the amazoness fantasy design that was copy pasted on illustrated covers/panels of Heavy Metal comics that were also alongside new high fantasy illustrations of Conan. Not masculine or heroic enough to be a serious representation of a beastial race and the last of the late 20th century's representation of women that needs to go..

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Imma have to hit ya with a "That's just like, your opinion, man"

Like I said, you do you. If that's what you want and you're disappointed with how things seem to be going then so be it.

Personally? I do NOT think a beast race has to look ... masculine. I don't think there's anything inherently masculine about having an animal head or looking part animal. (TBH I have no idea where that logic comes from with you but like I said ... you do you, not my job to change your mind on that).

Gonna have to cut this here as I find obsessive talk about personal preference in body shape for fictional character models to be fairly gross. (it's Viera Male thread tier gross)

I posted those images because it's actual new lore and insight into what they look like in a game/ game world that refused to give us much of anything to go off of until now so maybe it would please other people who want them playable. Few people bother talking about what they think they would look like from what I can see, with the common thought being Animal Heads on Femroe which prob doesn't spark much excitement.

Welp, now we have a side by side comparison.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Also it's worth noting that the body model is "equipped" as part of the clothing so it's not exactly that they've built a special model for her but that every character with unique clothing can have a customised body shape built into it. (See: Minfilia.)

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... No clue what you're getting at. This isn't a clothing option in game that anyone can wear nor is my calling it a "custom model" to imply that this game isn't a building-blocks sim when it come to character models. We're all very much aware of that.

Story behind this is legit patch before last people data mined the game, saw a female model that didn't match the body shape of any female and used Femroe textures but had no head and clearly had the clothing of the Queen from the Save the Queen title card ... and it used Femroe scaling system to make the model 11ft tall. People naturally assumed this was some kinda Hrothgar Queen Primal thing. Now, after seeing what it is, I just call it a custom model cause that's what it is. It's a Femroe after she took in a primal made of people's adoration for the Queen (who most often were Female Hrothgar) and she even gets cat eyes at the end. It's legit a unique character as of now, that's it.

As for hunch I think that's a non-starter for the simple fact that breast + hunch is baaaad on a design level

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Originally Posted by reivaxe

That's only a conundrum for Femroe, thighlanders are human and have explicitly goofy/ expressive/ "extra" and flat out troll emotes unique to them that build their identity. They're made in a way where that type of stuff works, prob one of if not the most flexible females when it comes to looking either tough as or traditionally goofy or feminine.

But when I was Femroe? It was jarring AF and highly disappointing like many of their shared emotes/ stances since everything about them is pretty much "BIG and strong

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Why does the literal masculine race doing that worry you more than the contextually masculine race? Highlanders are the hyur warriors who survived through thick & thin up north, fighting against the empire day in and out till they lost and became war torn slaves, refugees or boot licking loyalists. There are exceptions to the rule that go against the lore and culture. But besides player choice, these emotes are deemed out of character.

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Imma have to hit ya with a "That's just like, your opinion, man"

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So ill jot your evasion and fixation down as, "non argument"

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Personally? I do NOT think a beast race has to look ... masculine. I don't think there's anything inherently masculine about having an animal head or looking part animal. I find obsessive talk about personal preference in body shape for fictional character models to be fairly gross. (it's Viera Male thread tier gross)

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AGAIN with this, nobody said a beast race is or has to look or be masculine. Stop running with things out of context. The feline race you recommend is agile and cunning though masculine in action rather than appearance or physical prowess, we like it. But SE made a "Bestial" race with masculine traits in physicality and cultural. Even I question them making a monetorist or capital driven society in bozja when the males hunched look imply a race that keeps his center of gravity on uneven terrain unless it was just recent. You're the one throwing "appealing" around to push beauty standards while some actually read the lore/pr the devs write who might possibly contradict or retcon. Its pathetic.

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I posted those images because it's actual new lore and insight into what they look like in a game/ game world that refused to give us much of anything to go off of until now

...which prob doesn't spark much excitement.

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Majority of what you posted in this discussion we had is familiar material that people can see on the character creation screen, yes. But the devs absence or rarely mentioning of any updates for a brand new race give the player base justification to link pieces together and have a right to question new material, especially when its technically locked out from most of the playerbase.

Probably? Or, it doesn't spark much excitement...for you.

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Originally Posted by reivaxe

*PatchMinePatchMine, Burden of proof in my court*

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Fixed

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Originally Posted by AnAverageAspie

Why does the literal masculine race doing that worry you more than the contextually masculine race?

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... WTF is a "Masculine race"?

Masculinity is a social construct, different between culture/ time periods and animal type. There's no such thing as a "masculine race/ species" so I have no clue what you're going on about..

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AGAIN with this, nobody said a beast race is or has to look or be masculine. Stop running with things out of context.

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"A strong heroic-masculine but alluring female with a curved trapezoid bod.
/Female lions don't have human tits, so don't put big tits on female hrothgar, simple as that"

I'm not sure how you read that but that's what you said. At the very least you seem to think having an animal head = "shouldn't have xyz features on human body". I REALLY don't get your deal with using the word masculine to describe everything. Maybe you should use the word "muscular"? Maybe that's what you mean? Roe are a "muscular" race after all.

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You're the one throwing "appealing" around to push beauty standards while some actually read the lore/pr the devs write who might possibly contradict or retcon. Its pathetic.

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Hmm?
I actually read what the devs said and look at what's in the game.
Yoshi P is the one who said the Hrothgar are "well-suited to armour/ have a heroic look" back when they were revealed last year. Looking at them in game that's clearly the case.

I'm not interested in a subbing out reality for what I want to see or making assumptions on how something would/ should look like based on general lore, I make every effort to build theories based on data we have on hand.
That includes reading what the devs have said about male Hrothgar, looking at patterns in how other females are designed, using what knowledge I have about character design and modeling/ rigging and so on.

The simple fact that you suggest that it would be "easier" to make a woman out of a Male Roe body rig tells me everything I need to know about how little thought you put into this. You want what you want. It's fine to want what you want, but don't try to pass it as objective.

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Probably? Or, it doesn't spark much excitement...for you.

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IDK if you're reading my post but .... HELLO, I've played Femroe for like 5 years of playing this game. They're currently my 2nd fav female race pick 2nd only to Thighlanders (Which I will go back to when ever this game releases curly hair styles so I can have a hair style that feels "right" for a black character ... which prob wont happen so rip my black goddess fantasy). For YEARS I hated that this wasn't what Draggo girls were . In fact, the only reason I changed from Femroe was to play the ShB MSQ as Hrothgar cause I love anthros and expressive animation. I started trying other races again after that cause I don't like dude characters enough to give up all I got on my main.

That being said, I know for a fact that Femroe are the least played anything in this game by a huge margin so seems clear to me that just like with Hrothgar males and Viera females ANY attempt to make Male Viera/ Female Hrothgar will be an attempt to better appeal to players in a way that Roe/ Elezen failed to do.
I also know that Female Hrothgar get very lil fan art (so lil that I've many times in this thread posted fan art from D&D to help give people something to look at) and when asked people figure they already know what they would look like, pointing to Ronso model.

I don't even think I've ever expressed to you what I would personally want them to look like ... cause what I personally want doesn't matter as much as a talking point to me as trying to parse what the devs will actually do.
And it seems they went the direction I thought they would.

I'm just gonna parrot what I said before (multiple times) in this thread: just give female Hrothgars the same treatment as the males and do not make them a 2.0 (or 3.0) of an already existing female. I genuinely do not want them to just be another version of Miqo'te, Au Ra and/or Viera :/

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Originally Posted by Nestama

I'm just gonna parrot what I said before (multiple times) in this thread: just give female Hrothgars the same treatment as the males and do not make them a 2.0 (or 3.0) of an already existing female. I genuinely do not want them to just be another version of Miqo'te, Au Ra and/or Viera :/

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Don't think there's much to worry about on that, they try not to make copies when they add races. All new races fill a hole in this line up to some extent.

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Originally Posted by reivaxe

... WTF is a "Masculine race"?

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A race with masculine traits. Heroic, strong, built, dependable, loyal, assertive, etc. 2-3 of those were chosen or pinned when making male Hrothgar. And I think we both want that for female Hrothgar too since masculinity doesn't and shouldn't be pigeonholed under a specific sex/gender.

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I'm not sure how you read that but that's what you said. At the very least you seem to think having an animal head = "shouldn't have xyz features on human body"

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What I said is not the law for all fantasy races but for the observational design and concept of what SE made for Hrothgar. You didn't cover the full quote either. Due to SE making one with masculine traits, it would make sense for some consistency.
And the other comment in context was towards your argument. Because it being a female race, you assume she needs or is expected to have tits even if we go with the route of modeling it after Roegadyn or middie model adjusted to femroe.

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I actually read what the devs said and look at what's in the game.
The simple fact that you suggest that it would be "easier" to make a woman out of a Male Roe body rig tells me everything I need to know about how little thought you put into this. You want what you want. It's fine to want what you want, but don't try to pass it as objective.

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Ditto. But try and look at the subtext once in awhile. There is almost no assumption when what we have for the concept is right on the mossaic. This is...or was, a discussion on the idea the devs lied on the advertised concept and/or falling back into generic routine of race design. You and I have the same collected information. You and I see the mundane pattern with the mosaic setting it in stone. All we can really speculate is if they'll have a animal head or not.

I never said it would be easier. I said both choices were lazy with one being more interesting and possibly groundbreaking with little to lose.
Rigging a middie to adapt the concept of femroe into a more improved shorter body with animal/domestic feline head.
Or rig a Roegadyn body in making a female Hrothgar that isn't trying to be curvy or very feminine due to the model, but goes against stereotypes of feminine traits/beauty that stands out from the other female races.

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IDK if you're reading my post but .... HELLO, I've played Femroe for like 5 years of playing this game. They're currently my 2nd fav female race pick 2nd only to Thighlanders. In fact, the only reason I changed from Femroe was to play the ShB MSQ as Hrothgar cause I love anthros and expressive animation.

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Highlander from the start of ps3 beta in 2013. Made a "Guts" looking character, deleted it and my old account to make a newer one for Stormblood. I didn't think I wanted a anthro/furry race until the SHB fanfest showing which caused extreme backlash but I was still impressed. It was the "new" content that broke the mold even if Hrothgar and Viera were gender locked and had harder time with headgear. But even when the devs said it was an attempt at a "bestiel" race and how it was vaguely inspired from Ronso due to memory limitations, I was still worried a female version would just copy female Ronso. And here we are, a year after a livestream stating they wanted Hrothgar(implied as just male) to not appear like the Roe/Miqote/Viera. A mossaic mural that has them looking like tall midlander miqote. Creativity down the tubes and harder justification in defending the race.

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ANY attempt to make Male Viera/ Female Hrothgar will be an attempt to better appeal to players in a way that Roe/ Elezen failed to do.
I also know that Female Hrothgar get very lil fan art
I don't even think I've ever expressed to you what I would personally want them to look like

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By all means, do that....not taller neko catgirls with only a bit of meat on their thighs excused with vague feline facial detail. Its a complete contradictiom from your idea of player appeal and trying not to make copies. When male Hrothgar was something unique yet an improvement on a existing unpopular race. DO that with female Hrothgar. Female miqote/au ra will still be the most playable while this race stays in the bottom of the well alongside Roegadyn and Elezen.

You're not that hard to read on what you probably wanted them to look like. Someone disappointed in their looks wouldn't be this fixated in arguing with someone who's disappointed but slowly subsiding their dissatisfaction into acceptance.

five quid says that even if we get hrothgals they wont be slouched over like the males because reasons

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Originally Posted by Lihtleita

five quid says that even if we get hrothgals they wont be slouched over like the males because reasons

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I bet they're going to use real life differences between lions as an example for how the females will compare to males. Meaning not as tall (yet looking as tall because no slouch), less muscles while still being pretty muscular (meaning female Roe levels of muscles, if not a little more), and will probably have less masculine hairstyles. Meaning no "mane", the whiskers on the couerl type may end up being smaller, etc etc.

*looks at the female Ronso model* *shudders*

The fan art is pretty good though, as usual.

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Originally Posted by AnAverageAspie

A race with masculine traits. Heroic, strong, built, dependable, loyal, assertive, etc. 2-3 of those were chosen or pinned when making male Hrothgar. And I think we both want that for female Hrothgar too since masculinity doesn't and shouldn't be pigeonholed under a specific sex/gender.

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... WTF are you on about? O_o
Heroism and strength, loyalty, dependability and so on are not "masculine traits". Like I said, Masculinity (behavior) is a social construct. You can NOT have a "masculine race/ culture" cause even if they value war or violence or strength that's just how the people of that culture "are" regardless of gender. Same for animals, Hyenas are not a "masculine species" of animal for example. That literally makes no sense.

"Heroic, strong, dependable, loyal, assertive" this literally describes Harriet Tubman and countless women in history and today and I would never call them masculine cause "surely these traits are manly in nature".

But that's kinda the problem with men ... thinking of masculinity as the opposite of weakness is the type of shit that leads to toxic masculinity and emotionally stunted men.

(Oh, and Hrothgar being "Heroic looking" is prob them saying that they have a super hero look aka the fantasy exaggerated "big, strong men" bodybulder look seen in films and comics. That's why they would look good in armor. So a heroic female look would, again, look like a thighlander pretty much ... and that's even assuming they would want to make them strike the same themes. Draggo bois were the tall-n-handsome + more beastly dudes ... the women are petite JPop Idols).

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What I said is not the law for all fantasy races but for the observational design and concept of what SE made for Hrothgar. You didn't cover the full quote either. Due to SE making one with masculine traits, it would make sense for some consistency.

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HOW does making a male that's an animal headed furry 100% humanoid displaying traditionally exaggerated idolized human male body shape = "women of this race must also display traditionally exaggerated idolized human MALE traits"?

If Highlander males looked like Henry Calvary Witcher that doesn't mean Highlander females have to look like ... Henry Calvary Sherlock.

It's like thinking "Viera females look like high fashion female super models so surely male Viera would or SHOULD look like ... flatter chested female super models" O_O


That covers the post for the most part. Spoiler for shorter..

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Because it being a female race, you assume she needs or is expected to have tits

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No, I assume they have tits cause Hrothgar males have good looking human adult male bodies. The extent of their beast hood is animal head/ fur patches and a tail. Plus the race is clearly based on Ronso which are things we can find pictures of.

If it's a race like the Charr, where they are more cat monster than men and run around on all 4s, then yeah ... females would look more like female cats than humans.

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Ditto. But try and look at the subtext once in awhile. There is almost no assumption when what we have for the concept is right on the mossaic. This is...or was, a discussion on the idea the devs lied on the advertised concept and/or falling back into generic routine of race design.

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Devs never lied. Devs never said Hrothgar females would be ... anything. That last FULL new race they made can't even be called a "tall' or "short" race as a whole cause they had no desire to make the genders share the same body type. Hroths are clearly based on Ronso so I'd assume the females would be smaller and look like human females body-wise just like Ronso. They also explicitly gave males more attractive male proportions than Roe males and made them noticeably smaller, I'd assume they would do the same for females but there was no telling.

Now we see the art and that looks to be exactly what we got waiting for us if they every make them for the most part.

Personally it kinda reeks as virtue signalling to complain about general race creation tropes as a reason why these women "should look masculine". There's a difference between "everything doesn't have to be petite and kawaii" and "strip away female features cause their men are an exaggerated muscle men shape so their women also have to be that for fairness". Like ... Hrothgar are an attempt to appeal to furries among other demos and we already know what that entails.

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Rigging a middie to adapt the concept of femroe into a more improved shorter body with animal/domestic feline head.
Or rig a Roegadyn body in making a female Hrothgar that isn't trying to be curvy or very feminine due to the model, but goes against stereotypes of feminine traits/beauty that stands out from the other female races.

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Why would they do either of these?
Should the Hrothgar be for people who like furries or ... people who play Femroe and want to spice it up?

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Highlander from the start of ps3 beta in 2013. Made a "Guts" looking character, deleted it and my old account to make a newer one for Stormblood. I didn't think I wanted a anthro/furry race until the SHB fanfest showing which caused extreme backlash but I was still impressed. It was the "new" content that broke the mold even if Hrothgar and Viera were gender locked and had harder time with headgear. But even when the devs said it was an attempt at a "bestiel" race and how it was vaguely inspired from Ronso due to memory limitations, I was still worried a female version would just copy female Ronso. And here we are, a year after a livestream stating they wanted Hrothgar(implied as just male) to not appear like the Roe/Miqote/Viera. A mossaic mural that has them looking like tall midlander miqote. Creativity down the tubes and harder justification in defending the race.

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You failed to realize that Hrothgar are basically FF Khajiit/ FF14 friendly Ronso. They are attractive human bods with cat-based-animal heads.

Before Hrothgar was a thing I had for years been supporting Viera, pointing out to Ronso fans (in the great race-adding-wars of old) how a beast race would never work cause of how the gear in this game works. I was wrong and right ... at the price of head stuff they made it happen, but it's not a digitigrade foot beast race like Ronso proper or Charr, it's a Khajiit basically ... and I love what they did all the same.

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Its a complete contradictiom from your idea of player appeal and trying not to make copies.

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It doesn't.

Viera are tall and thin. Elezen are tall and thin. They are not copies of Elezen though, they have better proportions and measurements.

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When male Hrothgar was something unique yet an improvement on a existing unpopular race. DO that with female Hrothgar. Female miqote/au ra will still be the most playable while this race stays in the bottom of the well alongside Roegadyn and Elezen.

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You seem to fail to see that any "improvement" on Femroe is going to look more like a woman than Femroe do as that's a major element making them the lease played thing in the game (shockingly, people who play female characters don't commonly want to have their character look masculine ... meaning an improved attempt at a tall female would look more feminine as we see. Logically the devs wouldn't want a repeat of Femroe, but they may want to appeal to people who WOULD play a tall non-human female but don't like Femroe). And you also fail to see that Viera are an "improvement" on the unpopular Female Elezen, and are hella popular for it.

Being a beast race means they will likely not be very popular regardless but if Hrothgar males have shown us anything it's that they can at least find decently sizable numbers. (They're basically Highlander level of popular, which is pretty damn good for being a male only hunch backed beast headed race with limit head gear and pay-to-groom)

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You're not that hard to read on what you probably wanted them to look like. Someone disappointed in their looks wouldn't be this fixated in arguing with someone who's disappointed but slowly subsiding their dissatisfaction into acceptance.

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LMAO, outside of "have some amount of animal head/ have the same kinda BIG and DRAMATIC and EXPRESSIVE emotes energy of the males (prob 100% gonna happen, races tend to match emote energy between genders and animal head = gotta lean hard on body language cause the human brain doesn't read animal faces well)/ look like women" I don't really care.

That's why I find obsessive detailed talk about personal body shape pref to be gross, I accept that the devs can do w/e they want. I see the point of the race to be "animal people to appeal to the western MMO/ fantasy RPG fans/ furries" and I want people to actually enjoy them.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Also it's worth noting that the body model is "equipped" as part of the clothing so it's not exactly that they've built a special model for her but that every character with unique clothing can have a customised body shape built into it. (See: Minfilia.)

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The same can be said about Merlwyb and Fran. Their bodies are not player character bodies, they're 1 piece just like this new Roegadyn model. They use the proportions on these new body types to create gear around them. It seems like the hardest part is actually creating the correct body proportions first more than anything. Once they have that down they have the calculations (percentages and body outline) to mold the gear around it.

This new body type is a good indication, in my opinion, that this might be the blueprint for female hrothgar's body.
The same way I believe Urianger's new muscular Shadowbringers' body is the blueprint for male Viera.

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Originally Posted by reivaxe

"Heroic, strong, dependable, loyal, assertive" this literally describes Harriet Tubman and countless women in history and today and I would never call them masculine cause "surely these traits are manly in nature".

(So a heroic female look would, again, look like a thighlander pretty much).

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No. That's, "surely, these traits are in men only". Many women described with these traits, assumed to be exclusively towards males. Were either deemed "barbaric", "loudmouth", "a sin against nature" or, "women who should stay in the kitchen". We can go all day tossing paraphrased quotes of 50s social dogma against women or men to appear or act different in one way to fit into a hole they might and should not have to fit. Having a masculine fantasy race towards both genders is inherently a counter culture move which would be very interesting but not likely given eastern expectation of anthropomorphic animals (male Hrothgar having some cultural links to japans Kaiketsu Lion-Maru. With expectations of feminine beauty in anthropomorphic animals to be your Bagi.
A heroic female should not have to only look like a thighlander.)

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HOW does...
It's like thinking "Viera females look like high fashion female super models so surely male Viera would or SHOULD look like ... flatter chested female super models" O_O

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Why does it not have to be that? I explained it clear as crystal already 3 times.
Female Viera are based on stereotypical curvy glam standards of the idealized women beginning from the late 50s onto the late 90s.
Its not rocket science to expect the males as the opposite. Stereotypical body standards of the idealized modern lean male (With male Roegadyn and Hrothgar focusing on the body builders of the 50s to the 80s which had an underground following with the homosexual community).
No WIP or tossed out concept art needed. Though others can imagine a more femboyish viera if they want, counter standards of masculinity or "maleness" ala male kpop idols. It feels like a far away dream and I'll question retcons/contradictions to the lore behind it but I'm not going to label their discussion gross or obsessive over it.

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If it's a race like the Charr, where they are more cat monster than men and run around on all 4s, then yeah ... females would look more like female cats than humans.

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Again. Nobody is expecting nor was I implying. I didn't even mention if Female Hrothgars should have a hunch or not and that would still have it nowhere near a Charr.

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Like ... Hrothgar are an attempt to appeal to furries among other demos and we already know what that entails.
Should the Hrothgar be for people who like furries or ... people who play Femroe and want to spice it up?
You failed to realize that Hrothgar are basically FF Khajiit/ FF14 friendly Ronso. They are attractive human bods with cat-based-animal heads.

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Furries generally don't like female Ronso's thin tightrope of animal/neko pitfalls. And fans of western fantasy beast races don't like it either. Both wanting an animal like female race to not tread in the territory of 80s-90s cartoons. A big example being Swat Cats ala Callie Briggs or Lt. Felina Feral. My buddy, the furry is strong with this race, just from a simple glance at threads and humor/memes towards them. You do come across players that have no intention/fascination with that community while playing Hrothgar, annoyed with tells or dabs of RP. But nobody has the right to demean, in retaliation to a group of players that consumed and are attached to a work of art. Especially one that was ridiculed for not being male bunny boys. I was even in a FC raid team that would kick people if they rolled to those new races (especially Hrothgar).

Realized? I freaking mentioned and compared them with Khajiit as a better look that them. And I said they were poor representation of Ronso but I prefer the limitations that adjusted them with to be more Bara.

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Viera are tall and thin. Elezen are tall and thin. They are not copies of Elezen though, they have better proportions and measurements.

appealappealappealappeal

Being a beast race means they will likely not be very popular regardless but if Hrothgar males have shown us anything it's that they can at least find decently sizable numbers.

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We already agree Viera are an improvement. And saying they're copies would contradict the idea for Male Hrothgar. They said they didn't want Male Hrothgar to look like Miqote, Viera or Roegadyn. The only common defense we have against them being Miqote and Roegadyn is their unique head with adjusted mesh and rig respectively.

But female Hrothgar if taking more inspiration from Ronso, is a weaker justification when compared to Miqote/midlander. You could make them closer to femroe but then you have the argument of them being too much like femroe, this time with no unique but similar animal head to male hrothgar that many enjoy them for. You just want tad taller thighlanders with the bad of cheeky emotes that are stuck with the 5 female races.

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I see the point of the race to be "animal people to appeal to the western MMO/ fantasy RPG fans/ furries" and I want people to actually enjoy them.

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We have the same wants and understand the same point.

I honestly don't know why viera are so curvaceous in FFXIV. In FFXII they just looked anorexic, lean and feral-ish.

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Originally Posted by Haru304

I honestly don't know why viera are so curvaceous in FFXIV. In FFXII they just looked anorexic, lean and feral-ish.

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Maybe its the hair choices too? Some XII arts show more restrained locks compared to the glam and poofy ones in XIV.
I get the feet and hands issue be it, "*insert console* limitation, haha funny~", "cool/feral differentiators for female races are too ugly and hard to program, slap it on the same model we always use", or "We just want playboy bunnies."
But we can technically give them beast nails through a hand glamor (6.0 should be the character customization rehaul where we shouldn't need to equip nails, claws or tattoos anymore. I thought YoshiP wanted separate equip slots just for cosmetic purposes...but we get umbrellas)

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Originally Posted by AnAverageAspie

No. That's...

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I think this is the end friendo, you clearly don't know or care to look up what social constructs are. If you did you would never label a race or culture or species as "masculine". This hang up has seemingly colored your PoV on this.

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Originally Posted by Amnmaat

The same can be said about Merlwyb and Fran. Their bodies are not player character bodies, they're 1 piece just like this new Roegadyn model. They use the proportions on these new body types to create gear around them. It seems like the hardest part is actually creating the correct body proportions first more than anything. Once they have that down they have the calculations (percentages and body outline) to mold the gear around it.

This new body type is a good indication, in my opinion, that this might be the blueprint for female hrothgar's body.
The same way I believe Urianger's new muscular Shadowbringers' body is the blueprint for male Viera.

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Pretty much my thoughts on it.

Chronologically it would seem that ...
Painting/ Art was of the Femroe Queen when she was a shrine maiden. Shows her to have a typical Femroe body and shows the Female Hrothgar aren't like that.
Inception is only after she became the host of the Queen Primal which was basically fueled and shaped by the people's feelings towards the Queens. Queens have mostly always been Female Hrothgar and she even gets glow cat eyes at the end. Would imply that it has had an effect on her appearance which would explain why she no longer has a Femroe frame.
Body looks inline with the Hrothgars in the art for the most part.

Could be nothing but I take it as a sign of what they would look like personally.

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Originally Posted by reivaxe

You clearly don't know or care to look up what social constructs are. If you did you would never label a race or culture or species as "masculine"

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That's the straw that broke your back? You have a complacent non argument for why we cannot see traits, standards or intent inspired by societal expectations/standards placed on a fantasy race or gender roles of an inspired time period? Countering that we would call real cultures/self conscious life as manly? the toxic term. Fantasy has a blend of inspiration and imagination.
Yes, I can claim a race like Redwall badgers, hares, shrews and even mice as masculine or emanating masculine traits perceived by east and west fantasy. Despite the formers(Badgers) culture of males leaving home to climb/defend a volcano, the females and race/species are still battle ready protectors with the same strength as their male counterparts. Allegorical representatiom of the mens draft and women's war particitation but both look and act strong.
Fantasy races usually represent or advertise fantasy classes or roles. The problem is the gender expectation (which is when it becomes very toxic, you and I agree) that one gender cannot be, show or act masculine. That dimorphism is a thing for some creatures so its instead inherited to all creatures, that it should be followed in human race/cultures but warped into social constructs, that masculinity is exclusive to the male sex of a race or culture.

Let's call for a punch break

Posting to show support, I'm all in favour of them adding Miqroe'te female Hrothgar!

Female Hrothgar or death

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Originally Posted by Taybat

Female Hrothgar or death

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Love the Enthusiasm...but tone it back abit :3

Give it to us.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

Love the Enthusiasm...but tone it back abit :3

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Female Hrothgar or death.

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...68/319/afb.gif

While there are quite literally ten times the pages of posts for male Viera, I'm much more excited for potential female Hrothgar - especially given how they're so much more prominent for their species' lore in comparison.

So while it isn't much, female hrothgar have my full support.

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Originally Posted by Tsiron

Posting to show support, I'm all in favour of them adding Miqroe'te female Hrothgar!

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HAHA! I like you. This is great.

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Originally Posted by Taybat

Female Hrothgar or death

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This is correct.

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Originally Posted by Reksanden

While there are quite literally ten times the pages of posts for male Viera, I'm much more excited for potential female Hrothgar - especially given how they're so much more prominent for their species' lore in comparison.

So while it isn't much, female hrothgar have my full support.

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Tbh while they can twist the lore around and make no playable male viera make some sense (even if the wol is just one person etc) female hrotgar not being in the game as even npcs is so dumb imo, like its just completely unjustified from a lore prespective

It's both funny and annoying how fem Hrothgar get treated. "Yes, they exist, there's quite a few of them... off-screen... you can't see them, but my wife says hi." "Yeah, uh, the Horthgar queen? uhhh"

"She's a Roegadyn, you see, the title is just given TO the queen, and that particular one you see was a Roegadyn... yeah."