I seriously think that Square Enix is not as stupid as people here think. Do you really think SE will risk doing something retarded like that and lose their players?Quote:
Originally Posted by TeaTimeBear
Cash shop confirmed
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10-23-2014, 02:54 AMEvenstar
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10-23-2014, 02:56 AMCodekI don't think any of us believe the Dev's would intend to do that. But there is a lot of fear that the corporate side of SE is feeling tight for money and see this game as a great way to make ends meet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Evenstar
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10-23-2014, 02:58 AMLafand to get attention of retarded kids and their mom's valets, why not? Worked quite well for tortatic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Evenstar
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10-23-2014, 03:08 AMRaddCubanI don't know. Looking at their sales expectations for many of the games they've produced lately I can totally see that they overestimate people's loyalty to a brand, especially a severely damaged one like Tomb Raider.Quote:
Originally Posted by Evenstar
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10-23-2014, 03:12 AMMinerva-Redwater
I disagree with the cash shop honestly i love this game and not having a cash shop was one of the reasons for it. Now its going to turn into just any other MMO, especially with prices like the ones they listed.
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10-23-2014, 03:24 AMGramul
I think people will leave, but not nearly enough to offset the income from the cash shop. Because the average Joe simply doesn't care enough. Which to me is disappointing, but not shocking.
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10-23-2014, 03:24 AMFyrebrandSorry, my mistake. It was registered accounts, not active subs. We don't know the current active subs. I went back and made an edit to my post, to explain.Quote:
Originally Posted by Laf
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10-23-2014, 03:30 AMErudainIt was posted several times on this thread so I won´t type it all again....so here come all my copy-pastesQuote:
Originally Posted by Evenstar
To be fair most don't start with P2W items, they start with vanity only, and they keep adding and adding more vanity.
Most stay with vanity only.Quote:
Originally Posted by Erudain
But it usually raises 2 questions:
- It can be used as a "sort of RMT"...buy an item in the cash shop, sell it in-game for million gils (crafters already do, but at least they put some work into it).
- It depends on what each person definition of "win" is...to some is to down SCoB, to other could be collect all minions/costumes/mounts.
But there has been cases of game affecting items:
As for the doom assumption:Quote:
Originally Posted by Erudain
And last but not least:Quote:
Originally Posted by Erudain
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erudain
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10-23-2014, 03:39 AMRaddCubanThe reason I cherry picked that bit is because it stood out to me as it was the only bit that pertained to my stance on the matter. I'm not opposed to the existence of a cash shop. I'm opposed the change in practices it brings. That is that things that were previously made available from in-game vendors during seasonal events, and that things that would otherwise be attached to merch/veteran status/what have you will only be available for cash from the shop. Hell, if they want to put all the stuff available from the CE, the merch, or from veteran rewards up there in the shop I couldn't care less.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teryaani
Edit: You know what I'll even add a little bit more. They should make all the old event gear and goodies available on the cash shop for off season purchase!
I just don't think that two things that have very different purposes for existing should be conflated. Are you telling me that if something is up for purchase, but people purchase it for a different reason than was intended when it was made available for purchase that becomes the reason it was made available for said purchase? -
10-23-2014, 03:54 AMDwillYes, because with a post of this quality which stereotypes everyone with disposable income, I am sure Square Enix values the opinion of your side even more.Quote:
Originally Posted by Laf
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10-23-2014, 04:46 AMMysteranVery nicely written.Quote:
Originally Posted by Erudain
I also want to add that, for all that I have written on this topic, I really do believe that this team, the FFXIV:ARR team, would be the ones to listen and act on the feedback more than any I have seen. That alone is reason for me to post my dissatisfaction with the Cash Shop idea and I doubt I'm alone in that. We care about the game, particularly the long vision for it. That's why we fight so hard for the stance. -
10-23-2014, 05:00 AMAlexandeRWQuote:
Originally Posted by Fyrebrand
I really would be interested to know an accurate count of subs too. I know xivsouls tries as well. Would it be too much to ask for the simple ability to /search all and pull up a number of those who aren't inside an instance? (That isn't a hint for you to sell it at the cash shop, SE). -
10-23-2014, 05:07 AMMoqiI am not scared about anything. It's just not a business model I approve. I think an MMO with a sub shouldn't have a cash shop to provide additional content. Up until now it was like this so i was paying, now it's not, so I won't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Evenstar
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10-23-2014, 05:15 AMIveraIvaliceIf that's the feedback they're getting then yes they should be. Where is the other 99.999% of the gamers feedback from your imaginary statistics?Quote:
Originally Posted by Amaret
You can't possibly think that everyone who plays the game is voicing an opinion or even uses the forums. Sure not a huge % of the players use the forums but those are the only ones who care enough to give feedback so that's the community to listen to. You think they just make up fake feedback for those that don't ever use the forums?
"Well a bunch of people on the forums are mad about this, but there's about 80% more players that didn't say anything. Hmm I think I'm gonna make their opinions positive" -
10-23-2014, 07:56 AMLittleArrow
The forums may represent a smaller section of the community, but that's the point of a forum. This is where we represent ourselves in such a manner to show our displeasure or support. Just because we may be the minority doesn't mean our feelings (in support or against the cash shop) isn't accurate to those in game that don't want to bother with some of the nastier aspects that sometimes come with the forums. ^^
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10-23-2014, 08:09 AMMagis
Just a reminder that SE is the least trusting when it comes to DLC and the like. Reminder that they made a game that had not actual gameplay other than "rub the screen and stuff happens", and was primarily there to get people to put money into a bogus cash shop.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_F...ll_the_Bravest -
10-23-2014, 08:12 AMMoqiAnd let's not forget what they did with LR's "exclusive" pre-order bonuses, since we're talking about cash shop items.Quote:
Originally Posted by Magis
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10-23-2014, 08:18 AMLux_RaynaNope. It may come as a shocker, but a large percentage of players are simply logging in and enjoying the game. Forum feedback is too small a sample size to take seriously.Quote:
Originally Posted by IveraIvalice
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10-23-2014, 08:20 AMMageBlackGood to take inspiration from but not advise on how to run their company.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lux_Rayna
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10-23-2014, 08:25 AMLux_RaynaExactly! A forum expresses an opinion, which is valid and considered, but opinions are available from a wide variety of sources.Quote:
Originally Posted by MageBlack
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10-23-2014, 08:30 AMTupsiSince we're citing only one game, I had absolutely zero issues with XIII-2's DLC. Some were actually extremely fun encounters and cute outfits and fyi, the Ultros and Typhon you're going to fight in 2.4 came from XIII-2 DLC. Citing literally one example out of the numerous games they've offered DLC for is like saying Ford isn't trusting because 1 person out of the millions of ford drivers decided to get into an accident from drunk driving.Quote:
Originally Posted by Magis
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10-23-2014, 09:16 AMIveraIvaliceThen you prove my point. They don't listen to our feedbackQuote:
Originally Posted by Lux_Rayna
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10-23-2014, 09:21 AMApricoth
The only thing I have purchased from the "cash shop not officially a cash shop" was the Fantasia. I won't be spending money beyond that. No reason to. If you don't want to purchase those items then don't. You don't need them - always remember that. And as I said in another thread, the F2P I was under the impression Yoshi was very, very against that.
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10-23-2014, 09:27 AMNegotiatorhttp://www.gamerevolution.com/featur...never-paytowinQuote:
Originally Posted by Apricoth
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10-23-2014, 09:45 AMStarlordThen what is the point of the forums exactly?Quote:
Originally Posted by IveraIvalice
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10-23-2014, 09:47 AMIveraIvaliceI've been playing this game since 2010. My monthly subscription used to get me everything new that came out aside from bonus items from purchasing RL items. Now that they are adding this cash shop there will be a lot of things that I can no longer get if I don't use the cash shop. These items will now no longer me obtainable in game and are now locked behind a pay wall, even after I already pay a monthly subscription.Quote:
Originally Posted by Apricoth
Some will say that we aren't entitled to everything the game offers just from our monthly sub and they are right. But that is how it has been for the entire life of the game, now they take that away from us and simply not using the cash shop is not a solution.
Now there will be things that I can never get because I refuse to pay more -
10-23-2014, 09:52 AMIveraIvaliceLol idk, for show. All I know is that I can't remember a single time when they changed something based on the communities reaction or just simply didn't go through with something because of our feedback. Maybe there was a time when the game was still early and I do remember them listening all through 1.0 but not anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by Starlord
Remember the players polls? When they asked us what they wanted.
Now it's just, "it's coming, try it out, please look forward to it" and if we don't like it by then it's too late anyway -
10-23-2014, 09:55 AMDhexWell ain't that just life~Quote:
Originally Posted by IveraIvalice
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10-23-2014, 09:58 AMZumiYour character profile shows you are missing several minions and mounts. So how is this even a big deal to you? Not like you went out and got everything currently in the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by IveraIvalice
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10-23-2014, 10:24 AMIveraIvaliceI'm not a huge minion/mount collector but I do like knowing I can get them. My issue is not that I want all minions and mounts specifically. It's that I don't like not being able to have them now. It's a downgrade of what out subscription gets us, that's the issue. When they add hair styles on the shop it will be the same or anything else, it will just be another thing I can't get in game that I used to be able to if I so desiredQuote:
Originally Posted by Zumi
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10-23-2014, 10:49 AMRieze_Xeero
It may be the end of my minion/mount collecting journey. I may not be able to get some anymore because of cash shop huhu
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10-23-2014, 10:51 AMAlexander_DragonfangAnd thats exactly why we are playing a game, where supposedly unlike the real world, if you work hard enough, you can get what you want. Thats another of the many good reasons for this kind of cash shop to be really hurting us players.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dhex
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10-23-2014, 10:55 AMMysteranThe 35-day non-activity timer on Free Company housing causing the plot to be released. Based on player feedback they at least decided to hold off and reevaluate the idea. That gives me some hope that they will listen to feedback to some degree.Quote:
Originally Posted by IveraIvalice
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10-23-2014, 10:58 AMRieze_Xeero
There is another thread asking player suggestion on what they would like for a cash shop... Some wanted HOUSING/PLOT! It is "Vanity" but you have to earn it in game... If ever they add housing in cash shop, a lot of players will get mad especially those who worked hard for it. The word Vanity is too vague, and almost 70% in-game is vanity meaning 70% here can be sold in cash shop... scary
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10-23-2014, 11:21 AMIveraIvaliceI really hope so, I've been on full support from this game since 2010Quote:
Originally Posted by Mysteran
But I don't support games/companies that put their wallet before their fans -
10-23-2014, 11:42 AMMorningstar1337
Right now I don't care about Cash shop at the moment however I must point out that when implementing something like this needs to be kept at a balance. You can add new vanity stuff, but you must make sure that not to sell ALL the new vanity stuff (and make sure the stuff you're selling isn't already coded into the game, like the Slepnir mount for instance). And is it starts as Vanity only, then it must be kept that way. Otherwise there would be little reason to play and subs decline.
They also have to make the items able to be shared by players (though they might want to make cover MB under "Unsellable" instead of "Untradable") -
10-23-2014, 12:18 PMAmateru
I'm not sure if I should be mad or sad about Online Shop, but I'm both. ｡･ﾟ･(ﾉД`)･ﾟ･｡
I do not want Online Shop! ヾ(*｀Д´*)ﾉ"
We are already paying for the game every month!!! ヽ(｀○´)/ -
10-23-2014, 12:29 PMFirepowerBack in the Alpha stages the forums were very friendly and had lots of healthy discussion and feedback, the early stages of beta was similar. As more and more people joined the testing the forums then degraded very quickly to the point of where they are now with continuous "the world is ending, I'm leaving this game because it's terrible but I'm going to stay on this forum and complain about it every day" threads, so from that point I can only assume that square then decided it's not worth listening to them guys.Quote:
Originally Posted by IveraIvalice
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10-23-2014, 12:29 PMVhailorSadly, I feel fairly pessimistic on this one. If they were inclined to listen to fan feedback, they almost surely would have mentioned the idea more than a week before its scheduled release, to test the waters.Quote:
Originally Posted by IveraIvalice
I don't think it's by accident that they planned an extremely quick turnaround from announcement to release. They're likely hoping that many people get used to it before their current subscription period even runs out, thereby minimizing the damage it will do to subscription numbers.
Obviously this is pure speculation on my part, but it seems reasonable to me.
Edit / Addition:
In fairness, in the alpha and beta stages, it seemed as if SE was focused on polishing the title as much as possible. It was an easy cause to get behind.Quote:
Originally Posted by Firepower
Then of course, the game released. The following year saw relatively bland (and predictable) dungeon additions. It saw the implementation of horrifically short-sighted mechanics that clearly didn't receive enough polish (ATMA, Hunts, FATE quests for the tribal series, the entire Glamour system, the entire housing system, and probably a few others). It saw a near-total indifference to RMT activity, beyond a belated fix to at least minimize how much spam we receive from them. It is now seeing a sneakily rapid implementation of a cash shop.
How, exactly, should the community have reacted? It's hard to remain constructive when SE approaches most aspects of the game with either indifference, incompetence, or greed. -
10-23-2014, 12:40 PMXairos
This was just posted today on one of my favorite Youtube Channels and i think it fits this 130 page standoff perfectly. Guide to Arguing: 5 Fallacies
The Strawman Fallacy
The Ad Hominem Fallacy
The Black or White Fallacy
The "No true scotsman" Fallacy
The Authority Fallacy
You may be using one an not even know it. Take some time to learn ( I did ) and make the forums a better place. The individual ones are 2 mins long.